Topic: Should "New play control" Wiimakes be extended to Pre-GC games?

[bustin98]

I want to see Doom64 and the Quake I & II brought back from the dead.

[Adrock]

It still is a silly argument especially since this time of year has usually been slow, last year was more the exception then the rule.

I still find it apt. Nintendo hasn't released a major game in months. These ports are filling in the gaps because Nintendo had nothing otherwise.

Actually it goes for around $12 used (around $20 if you buy it used at Gamestop), not to mention that Pikmin for Wii will go for less when sold used. In actuality there is probably a $10 gap or so between a comparable condition Pikmin (either sealed or used) and the enhanced Pikmin which adds a few new features. So I guess it depends if you feel a $10 premium is justified for features such as Widescreen, Wii Mote Controls and a "fix" for those of us who were thrilled with the 30 day limit.

It's $12.99 at Gamecrazy, plus my discount. Okay, so slightly over $10 after tax. Doesn't change the fact that the Wii port is still $20 more which makes all the difference. Even if it's $10, that's $10 I could spend elsewhere.

Still a port of a port, with the only real difference being widescreen and Wiimote functionality. At least the Pikmin game tweaks one of the core gameplay designs.

You missed the point. RE was $30 not $40. It's also $20 now. Nintendo rarely lowers their prices. Case in point, Twilight Princess is still $50. On top of that, Pikmin is a 7+ year old game.

[EasyCure]

Nintendo hasn't released a major game in months. These ports are filling in the gaps because Nintendo had nothing otherwise.

or Nintendo decided early on that instead of having droughts for long periods of times between big games, due to delays and whatnot, that they'd release these ports to satisfy the insatiable gamers habit. If this was the N64 or GC era (when nintendo gave us SOME information on upcoming games) we'd of been yearning for X game knowing it was gonna be released in Y then it'd get pushed back to Z and we'd be stuck with NOTHING. And as customary we'd either have nothing from 3rd parties, or were too snobbish a fanboy to pick up those 3rd party titles.

I like to think of it like this:

You go to a resteraunt and don't touch the free bread they leave out for you (shovelware) and patiently wait for your steak (the AAA games), but you're told that steaks are fresh out and are given the option to wait it out while they slaughter and bleed the cow and prepare your steak, so you get a few appetizers in the meantime (ports and 3rd party titles). The desserts are those surprise titles that come out of no where.

In any case, i hope you starve.

[NWR_pap64]

You wanna know WHY gamers aren't happy with the NPC concept? Because the games are NOT aimed at them.

The games are aimed at the new Wii audience who more than likely missed out on these games since the GC has a small niche fanbase and these games received somewhat small spotlights the first time around.

Of course gamers rag on this concept. They already played the game, they already bought it, they already got it way back at launch, they already understand it and if they didn't get it they know how to get it cheap.

But once more, NPC is for the brand new Wii audience who completely missed out on these games.

Has anyone noticed that besides Metroid and Mario Tennis the games are really small games that ONLY attracted the core fanbase? Pikmin 1 and 2 might be beloved by gamers but it isn't a popular franchise, or at least as big as Mario is around the world. Chibi-Robo came out at the very end of the GC's life, just as the next gen hype was in full drive. In other words; nobody cared for it. Jungle Beat, despite starring Donkey Kong also came unnoticed. So really, this is about bringing back to life old games that went unnoticed by the CORE fanbase and showing them off to the new audience.

My point is that its stupid to whine and bitch about these series existing. Are they substitutes to REAL games? Of course not. Do we prefer brand new games instead? Hell yes. But are these remakes harming ANYONE? NO, despite what anyone may say.

Like Golden has said, games are still coming. Not only did we just get an avalanche of rock solid third party offerings Nintendo just announced brand new games for the rest of the season. Clearly, NPC has NOT affected this.

If you don't care for this, fine. No one is forcing you to buy them. But to whine and bitch as if somehow these remakes are harming anyone is stupid to say the least.

They have their pros and cons, like any game in existence. Once more, there is an audience for these games. While Nintendo is selling this towards everyone this isn't for the core gamers.

Its like the Virtual Console. People whine about the service having games they already own. So? The service is for those that completely missed the game the first time around. These remakes have a similar purpose.

[Mop it up]

Has anyone noticed that besides Metroid and Mario Tennis the games are really small games that ONLY attracted the core fanbase?

I don't think Mario Power Tennis sold very well; it never became a Player's Choice title. However, sales data for any game which didn't sell more than a million copies is practically impossible to find. According to Wikipedia, of the seven New Play Control! titles Metroid Prime and Pikmin are the only two which sold more than a million.

Pikmin probably wasn't as well received as Nintendo had hoped. The re-releases of the two Pikmin games exist to garner attention for the series so the release of Pikmin 3 has a better chance of being met with success. Now, I've never played Pikmin and I'm not sure if it's something I'd like, but the series seem unique and deserves to become one of Nintendo's main franchises.

Chibi-Robo and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat are both obscure titles released near the end of the purple box's market life, so re-releasing them onto the Wii and its larger market make some sense. I'm not so sure these titles are aimed solely at Nintendo's new market however, as there are plenty of GameCube owners who passed on the titles. If they perform well the second time around, hopefully we'll see some sequels.

Metroid Prime 1 and 2 however, are just cash-ins. Metroid Prime 3 was a moderate success, so the first two games are being re-released to take advantage of that. They aren't experiments because MP3 got the controls right, and they won't have any affect on any possible future Metroid game for Wii.

Mario Power Tennis is a cash-in as well, targeting the Wii Sports crowd. Mario games which aren't Mario Strikers have achieved huge success on Wii, and a new Mario Tennis game would have pretty much been a guaranteed hit. Other Mario games -- including ones which sold poorly on GameCube -- received sequels on Wii, so why not Mario Tennis? Because Camelot isn't interesting in creating Mario games anymore, so Nintendo is re-releasing MPT. Sadly it probably means we won't be seeing a new Mario Tennis on Wii, since by that time there will not only be plenty of other tennis games out there, but also a plethora of Mario games.

I'm just calling this one as I see it. I can't say I'm against the re-releases seeing as I purchased Mario Power Tennis and will probably get a couple of the others as well. I can envision good coming from this, but I can also envision more re-releases. A mixture of both is probably the likely result. Who knows what Nintendo's real motivations are behind these titles, be they experiments or cash-ins or both. Either way, I'm not expecting anything, so I'll be happy if they result in something like sequels but won't be disappointed if all that happens are more re-releases.

[Adrock]

You wanna know WHY gamers aren't happy with the NPC concept? Because the games are NOT aimed at them.

Perhaps for some people, but not me. I played Pikmin, but I never owned it. So the New Play Control Pikmin is aimed for people like me. However, I'm generally against ports/remakes on any console for the most part. I rarely buy or support them, but only on a case by case basis. For example, I bought RE4:WE hoping (perhaps naively) that it would help convince Capcom to make a brand new game along the same lines for the Wii if enough people supported the idea.

Pap and EasyCure offered 2 completely different reasons why the NPC series exists. Is Nintendo avoiding droughts? Catering to people who missed out on these games the first time around? Both? They sound like excuses to me. Why should Nintendo get a pass for something 3rd parties get slack for? Why rerelease these games? Isn't that what backwards compatibility is for? Like every other port/remake, these are quick cash-ins, plain and simple. Don't apologize for Nintendo, they know exactly what they're doing. They didn't make as much as they wanted the first time because they f*cked up with Gamecube so they're re-releasing the games and they know tons of Nintendo fans will eat it up. That's fine, whatever. I have no delusions over what Nintendo hopes to accomplish. It's quite clear. This is a really easy way to make money as it requires minimal effort and budgets. Every company knows this and that's precisely why ports/remakes even exist.

The point is, the NPC series is a step backward. Now, Nintendo themselves are promoting this kind of thing. How many Wii owners are frustrated over 3rd party offerings, including, but not limited to, ports/remakes? It's not okay if Nintendo does this too. They're further enabling 3rd parties to continue this trend.

[broodwars]

You wanna know WHY gamers aren't happy with the NPC concept? Because the games are NOT aimed at them.

Perhaps for some people, but not me. I played Pikmin, but I never owned it. So the New Play Control Pikmin is aimed for people like me. However, I'm generally against ports/remakes on any console for the most part. I rarely buy or support them, but only on a case by case basis. For example, I bought RE4:WE hoping (perhaps naively) that it would help convince Capcom to make a brand new game along the same lines for the Wii if enough people supported the idea.

Pap and EasyCure offered 2 completely different reasons why the NPC series exists. Is Nintendo avoiding droughts? Catering to people who missed out on these games the first time around? Both? They sound like excuses to me. Why should Nintendo get a pass for something 3rd parties get slack for? Why rerelease these games? Isn't that what backwards compatibility is for? Like every other port/remake, these are quick cash-ins, plain and simple. Don't apologize for Nintendo, they know exactly what they're doing. They didn't make as much as they wanted the first time because they f*cked up with Gamecube so they're re-releasing the games and they know tons of Nintendo fans will eat it up. That's fine, whatever. I have no delusions over what Nintendo hopes to accomplish. It's quite clear. This is a really easy way to make money as it requires minimal effort and budgets. Every company knows this and that's precisely why ports/remakes even exist.

The point is, the NPC series is a step backward. Now, Nintendo themselves are promoting this kind of thing. How many Wii owners are frustrated over 3rd party offerings, including, but not limited to, ports/remakes? It's not okay if Nintendo does this too. They're further enabling 3rd parties to continue this trend.

Well, it should be noted that at least buying Nintendo's ports & remakes generates cash towards new Nintendo Wii projects.  By contrast, if you buy one of Capcom's ports your cash is probably going towards one of their PS3/360 projects because Wii offers the most buck for the smallest production cost.

[Adrock]

Point taken, though Wii Fit alone will be enough to fund Nintendo for the next 67 years, including all those lawsuits for those patents they aren't infringing on.

[Stratos]

You wanna know WHY gamers aren't happy with the NPC concept? Because the games are NOT aimed at them.

Perhaps for some people, but not me. I played Pikmin, but I never owned it. So the New Play Control Pikmin is aimed for people like me. However, I'm generally against ports/remakes on any console for the most part. I rarely buy or support them, but only on a case by case basis. For example, I bought RE4:WE hoping (perhaps naively) that it would help convince Capcom to make a brand new game along the same lines for the Wii if enough people supported the idea.

Pap and EasyCure offered 2 completely different reasons why the NPC series exists. Is Nintendo avoiding droughts? Catering to people who missed out on these games the first time around? Both? They sound like excuses to me. Why should Nintendo get a pass for something 3rd parties get slack for? Why rerelease these games? Isn't that what backwards compatibility is for? Like every other port/remake, these are quick cash-ins, plain and simple. Don't apologize for Nintendo, they know exactly what they're doing. They didn't make as much as they wanted the first time because they f*cked up with Gamecube so they're re-releasing the games and they know tons of Nintendo fans will eat it up. That's fine, whatever. I have no delusions over what Nintendo hopes to accomplish. It's quite clear. This is a really easy way to make money as it requires minimal effort and budgets. Every company knows this and that's precisely why ports/remakes even exist.

The point is, the NPC series is a step backward. Now, Nintendo themselves are promoting this kind of thing. How many Wii owners are frustrated over 3rd party offerings, including, but not limited to, ports/remakes? It's not okay if Nintendo does this too. They're further enabling 3rd parties to continue this trend.

Well, it should be noted that at least buying Nintendo's ports & remakes generates cash towards new Nintendo Wii projects.  By contrast, if you buy one of Capcom's ports your cash is probably going towards one of their PS3/360 projects because Wii offers the most buck for the smallest production cost.

What if Capcom is merely creating a sustainable model on Wii where their Wii projects will fund future Wii projects? I know it's a generous statement, but it is still a possibility. Why are we assuming that Wii projects are funding HD projects? Wouldn't any company that desires to make a profit (which is most companies agenda) focus on projects that generate profit? So if HD projects are turning out to not generate enough money then they would drop them.
Am I wrong in thinking this? What is our reasoning for this conjecture that Wii projects fund HD projects? Pleas explain this to me because I'm not making the same logical jump you all have made.

[King of Twitch]

Wii can't handle HD graphics, therefore any profit an HD game makes will not be able to fund development of a Wii project. If you buy a game with HD, you are only supporting HD games and the destruction of gaming forever.

[broodwars]

You wanna know WHY gamers aren't happy with the NPC concept? Because the games are NOT aimed at them.

Perhaps for some people, but not me. I played Pikmin, but I never owned it. So the New Play Control Pikmin is aimed for people like me. However, I'm generally against ports/remakes on any console for the most part. I rarely buy or support them, but only on a case by case basis. For example, I bought RE4:WE hoping (perhaps naively) that it would help convince Capcom to make a brand new game along the same lines for the Wii if enough people supported the idea.

Pap and EasyCure offered 2 completely different reasons why the NPC series exists. Is Nintendo avoiding droughts? Catering to people who missed out on these games the first time around? Both? They sound like excuses to me. Why should Nintendo get a pass for something 3rd parties get slack for? Why rerelease these games? Isn't that what backwards compatibility is for? Like every other port/remake, these are quick cash-ins, plain and simple. Don't apologize for Nintendo, they know exactly what they're doing. They didn't make as much as they wanted the first time because they f*cked up with Gamecube so they're re-releasing the games and they know tons of Nintendo fans will eat it up. That's fine, whatever. I have no delusions over what Nintendo hopes to accomplish. It's quite clear. This is a really easy way to make money as it requires minimal effort and budgets. Every company knows this and that's precisely why ports/remakes even exist.

The point is, the NPC series is a step backward. Now, Nintendo themselves are promoting this kind of thing. How many Wii owners are frustrated over 3rd party offerings, including, but not limited to, ports/remakes? It's not okay if Nintendo does this too. They're further enabling 3rd parties to continue this trend.

Well, it should be noted that at least buying Nintendo's ports & remakes generates cash towards new Nintendo Wii projects.  By contrast, if you buy one of Capcom's ports your cash is probably going towards one of their PS3/360 projects because Wii offers the most buck for the smallest production cost.

What if Capcom is merely creating a sustainable model on Wii where their Wii projects will fund future Wii projects? I know it's a generous statement, but it is still a possibility. Why are we assuming that Wii projects are funding HD projects? Wouldn't any company that desires to make a profit (which is most companies agenda) focus on projects that generate profit? So if HD projects are turning out to not generate enough money then they would drop them.
Am I wrong in thinking this? What is our reasoning for this conjecture that Wii projects fund HD projects? Pleas explain this to me because I'm not making the same logical jump you all have made.

Because we have yet to see a project (save maybe to some extent Zack & Wiki) from Capcom on Wii that actually shows real production values worthy of the funds we've dropped into them.  Are you seriously going to tell me that they put the same amount of effort into say...Umbrella Chronicles as Resident Evil 5?  When I see a AAA title from Capcom on Wii, I'll believe they're using Wii project returns to fund Wii games, but from the looks of things we'll be waiting a while on that one.

As for "maybe Capcom is creating a stable model", B.S.  They had a stable model with Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition and Umbrella Chronicles, and those came out in 2007.  So are you really going to tell me all that money went to Tatsunoko vs. Capcom and Resident Evil: Dark Chronicles?  Nonsense.

[MegaByte]

I actually consider Toad a major character, but over the years, Nintendo has sort of relegated(S.A.T word in effect!)him to a generic mushroom citizen.

Wasn't it more the opposite?  He was a generic mushroom citizen who happened to get a break in the US version of Super Mario Bros. 2.  The generic character thing was there from the start and never went away.  We only see it differently here because of appearances like the Super Mario Bros. Super Show.

[Mop it up]

Wasn't it more the opposite?  He was a generic mushroom citizen who happened to get a break in the US version of Super Mario Bros. 2.  The generic character thing was there from the start and never went away.  We only see it differently here because of appearances like the Super Mario Bros. Super Show.

It's more like Toad has now gone back to being a generic race like in the beginning. The singular character of Toad has appeared in many games, though recently his duties have been replaced by the likes of Toadsworth and the Toad Brigade from Mario Galaxy.

[Stratos]

I'm going to move this thread back towards it's original topic.

Wouldn't the old N64/GC game Doshin the Giant be a good game possibility for the NPC series?
Sure, some translating is needed, but it could be a good opportunity to bring this series to the West.

[Kairon]

You wanna know WHY gamers aren't happy with the NPC concept? Because the games are NOT aimed at them.

Perhaps for some people, but not me. I played Pikmin, but I never owned it. So the New Play Control Pikmin is aimed for people like me. However, I'm generally against ports/remakes on any console for the most part. I rarely buy or support them, but only on a case by case basis. For example, I bought RE4:WE hoping (perhaps naively) that it would help convince Capcom to make a brand new game along the same lines for the Wii if enough people supported the idea.

Pap and EasyCure offered 2 completely different reasons why the NPC series exists. Is Nintendo avoiding droughts? Catering to people who missed out on these games the first time around? Both? They sound like excuses to me. Why should Nintendo get a pass for something 3rd parties get slack for? Why rerelease these games? Isn't that what backwards compatibility is for? Like every other port/remake, these are quick cash-ins, plain and simple. Don't apologize for Nintendo, they know exactly what they're doing. They didn't make as much as they wanted the first time because they f*cked up with Gamecube so they're re-releasing the games and they know tons of Nintendo fans will eat it up. That's fine, whatever. I have no delusions over what Nintendo hopes to accomplish. It's quite clear. This is a really easy way to make money as it requires minimal effort and budgets. Every company knows this and that's precisely why ports/remakes even exist.

The point is, the NPC series is a step backward. Now, Nintendo themselves are promoting this kind of thing. How many Wii owners are frustrated over 3rd party offerings, including, but not limited to, ports/remakes? It's not okay if Nintendo does this too. They're further enabling 3rd parties to continue this trend.

I think all your points are valid Adrock. However, Nintendo has a unique opportunity here in that their systems and exclusives have been on fairly constrained user bases in the GameCube generation. With the Wii, classics like Pikmin and Donkey Konga get a new chance to connect with gamers who never had a chance to get to know them before, especially new gamers. It's true that backwards compatibility holds this potential, but obviously a concentrated case to highlight these games for the Wii audience, along with wii-oriented features, has appeal in that it's a more focused attempt to induct new gamers into a more expansive and rich world of gaming.

When third parties do this, it's a little more suspect because it's hard to envision what new consumers they expect to find. This is exactly why ports are looked down upon: most gamers already have them on other systems. But that's EXACTLY where Nintendo's situation differs. Nintendo has always believed that their games should appeal to everybody, not just the stereotypical "gamers" category. Third parties rerelease their games to resell them to pretty much the same people: traditional gamers (some exceptions exist of course), but Nintendo's unique take on games almost makes new Wii gamers a very evident untapped and suitable market for old classics pushed back into the limelight.

People from 5 to 95, that's exactly the demographic that the Wii can claim is brand new, that's exactly what Nintendo's claimed as its market for generations, and that's precisely why Nintendo has a unique take on the remake angle with regards to Pikmin and Donkey Konga.

The Metroid Prime 1 and 2 remakes though? Ehhhhh.... Those I don't agree with at all. MP3 Corruption didn't move noticeably more units than Prime or Prime 2, so what could they hope to accomplish there? That market has seemingly not grown in potential size.

[Kairon]

I'm going to move this thread back towards it's original topic.

Wouldn't the old N64/GC game Doshin the Giant be a good game possibility for the NPC series?
Sure, some translating is needed, but it could be a good opportunity to bring this series to the West.

Back on topic though, lol.

Yeah, actually, I gotta disagree with the suggestion of this thread. I don't think Nintendo should retool N64 and previous games for the Wii. I mean, that'd require a complete remake of the game, whereas GC era games are similar enough in architecture to make it plausibly straightforward and cheap/simple.

The new play control series is above all a convenient way to bring GC classics to new audiences, and those are its strengths. Go pre-GC and costs rise significantly, and graphical quality falls. Better to leave these things on the Virtual Console, and what's so wrong with that?

One last thing too: Would you rather they retooled Sin & Punishment with a Wiimake, or would you rather they make Sin & Punishment 2 for the Wii? I mean, don't you think Nintendo made the right choice with that game?

[Morari]

Isn't the Wii's ability to actually play GameCube games enough of a way to bring those missed classics to a new audience?

[broodwars]

Isn't the Wii's ability to actually play GameCube games enough of a way to bring those missed classics to a new audience?

You'd think but consider this:

1.  Some of the GCN games in NPC may not be easily available anymore at retail, even used.  And they certainly won't be in a year or two as stores get rid of the last of their GCN inventory.
2.  ALL GCN games played on the Wii require the GCN controller, a controller that likely isn't still being manufactured or in the case of the best GCN controller they "lost the mold on" (Wavebird).
3.  Likewise with #2, most of the "new audience" Wii brought in learned to game on the Wii remote, and GCN games require the GCN controller.  I could see that being a barrier of entry.

[MegaByte]

Wouldn't the old N64/GC game Doshin the Giant be a good game possibility for the NPC series?
Sure, some translating is needed, but it could be a good opportunity to bring this series to the West.

No translation necessary since Doshin came out in Europe.

One last thing too: Would you rather they retooled Sin & Punishment with a Wiimake, or would you rather they make Sin & Punishment 2 for the Wii? I mean, don't you think Nintendo made the right choice with that game?

We won't know that until S&P2 is out.  The one thing I do know is that we were promised enhanced versions of Virtual Console games.  Aside from a few minor things like Pokemon Snap photo exporting, we haven't gotten that.  S&P is one of the glaring examples were Wii control would make more sense (and control change would be one of the easier things to modify).

[Chozo Ghost]

Wouldn't the old N64/GC game Doshin the Giant be a good game possibility for the NPC series?
Sure, some translating is needed, but it could be a good opportunity to bring this series to the West.

No translation necessary since Doshin came out in Europe.

Americans don't speak European.

[NWR_pap64]

Isn't the Wii's ability to actually play GameCube games enough of a way to bring those missed classics to a new audience?

Broodwars said it best. The backwards compatibility feature is aimed at the core fanbase since many of us like to collect our games from past generations.

Many people in the new audience completely missed the GC generation, so if they got the interest to discover old games they might be out of luck since many retailers stopped putting GC games and accessories for sale. Even if places like Gamestop carry old GC games they are still limited as to what games they have.

Its the same reason why many games are compatible with both the GC and Classic Controllers; core players are likely to have a GC controller on them, but the expanded audience might only have the CC as an option.

[Morari]

Its the same reason why many games are compatible with both the GC and Classic Controllers; core players are likely to have a GC controller on them, but the expanded audience might only have the CC as an option.

Unless it's Geometry Wars, which forgoes the GameCube controller altogether. I really wish it wouldn't have forced me to not buy it like that.

[TJ Spyke]

Isn't the Wii's ability to actually play GameCube games enough of a way to bring those missed classics to a new audience?

You'd think but consider this:

1.  Some of the GCN games in NPC may not be easily available anymore at retail, even used.  And they certainly won't be in a year or two as stores get rid of the last of their GCN inventory.
2.  ALL GCN games played on the Wii require the GCN controller, a controller that likely isn't still being manufactured or in the case of the best GCN controller they "lost the mold on" (Wavebird).
3.  Likewise with #2, most of the "new audience" Wii brought in learned to game on the Wii remote, and GCN games require the GCN controller.  I could see that being a barrier of entry.

Don't forget that playing the GameCube version requires a GameCube memory card.

[broodwars]

Isn't the Wii's ability to actually play GameCube games enough of a way to bring those missed classics to a new audience?

You'd think but consider this:

1.  Some of the GCN games in NPC may not be easily available anymore at retail, even used.  And they certainly won't be in a year or two as stores get rid of the last of their GCN inventory.
2.  ALL GCN games played on the Wii require the GCN controller, a controller that likely isn't still being manufactured or in the case of the best GCN controller they "lost the mold on" (Wavebird).
3.  Likewise with #2, most of the "new audience" Wii brought in learned to game on the Wii remote, and GCN games require the GCN controller.  I could see that being a barrier of entry.

Don't forget that playing the GameCube version requires a GameCube memory card.

Indeed, I did forget that.  Those are also not being manufactured anymore.  Why couldn't Nintendo have programmed the Wii to be able to save data directly to the Wii and use the Classic Controller?  It would have made the backwards compatibility a lot longer-lasting.

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo doesn't want backwards compatibility to be longer lasting. This is why the DS dropped support for GB and GBC games, and why the DSi has dropped support of GBA as well. Nintendo wants you to rebuy your old games again at some future point, and they can't make you do that if they maintain endless backwards compatibility.

That said, I do expect GC compatibility to be dropped with the next Wii revision.