Topic: Punch Out!! Rated Everyone 10+

[NWR_Lindy]

Ty, keep the thread clean please.

Next Level usually does good stuff.  I just hope it has good online so I can beat Neal senseless.

[NWR_Neal]

It's on, Lindemann!

I still haven't gotten online with Tecmo Bowl. My friend and I keep on meaning to, but I still hate taking the DS online for some reason.

[Stratos]

If it is finished or close to it then maybe Nintendo is holding it to launch with MotionPlus. It would be nice to see a couple of games use the WiiMote dongle right off the bat opposed to the different games that support it trickle out one by one.

@GoldenPhoenix
I notice you have a high opinion of Jungle Speed. This isn't the first timed you've mentioned.

[Mop it up]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but... how could this game benefit from Wii Motion Plus? If the controls are like Wii Sports Boxing, that means one of your in-game fists is controlled by punching with the Nunchuk in hand. You can't plug a Wii Motion Plus into the Nunchuk, so... that would leave you with one in-game fist which could more accurately detect your motions than the other. Although... maybe that's the point, as then your dominant hand would have more accuracy. Realism, I guess?

[NWR_pap64]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but... how could this game benefit from Wii Motion Plus? If the controls are like Wii Sports Boxing, that means one of your in-game fists is controlled by punching with the Nunchuk in hand. You can't plug a Wii Motion Plus into the Nunchuk, so... that would leave you with one in-game fist which could more accurately detect your motions than the other. Although... maybe that's the point, as then your dominant hand would have more accuracy. Realism, I guess?

I think Punch-Out will not use Motion Plus. I do expect it to have Balance Board support.

Plus, if I know Nintendo, they will focus on Wii Sports Resort as the sole Motion Plus game, then slowly release more and more MP compatible game.

[Stratos]

Plus, if I know Nintendo, they will focus on Wii Sports Resort as the sole Motion Plus game, then slowly release more and more MP compatible game.

That is the norm. I would like them to go the other way for once and provide multiple games initially to promote the product. I've always seen the MP as an awful risk for Nintendo in dividing the market and figured that anything they can do to promote a higher attach rate among consumers and a higher development rate among other game studios should be exercised.

Though their current strategy with the balance board doesn't give me any comfort regarding this.

[NWR_pap64]

Plus, if I know Nintendo, they will focus on Wii Sports Resort as the sole Motion Plus game, then slowly release more and more MP compatible game.

That is the norm. I would like them to go the other way for once and provide multiple games initially to promote the product. I've always seen the MP as an awful risk for Nintendo in dividing the market and figured that anything they can do to promote a higher attach rate among consumers and a higher development rate among other game studios should be exercised.

Though their current strategy with the balance board doesn't give me any comfort regarding this.

Miyamoto has already said that they have many games that will use Motion Plus, and many more in the planning stages. Nintendo is waiting to see how big the MP attachment rate is so that more games use it.

Plus, it obvious that Nintendo will use motion plus more than the balance board. The BB is limited when it comes to controls. MP on the other hand has more uses and more freedom.

[Stratos]

I think that having the MP would be nice. I've done martial arts before and I know that hand position can make a big difference in your strikes. I would imagine that MP could help with this.

[Mop it up]

I might be the only one who feels this way but I don't like the idea of the Wii Motion Plus accessory. First of all, it almost seems like the WM+ is what the Wiimote should have been... and was advertised as. The adverts for Wii show people playing Wii Sports and mimicking real-world actions, but this actually doesn't work too well in execution; more swift, less exaggerated motions work better for recognition, but then you're no longer mimicking the real-world actions. Furthermore, no other game I've played has attempted to build upon or even match the controls of Wii Sports, and tend to have tacked-on motion control that replaces button-presses (Mario Sluggers, Mario Galaxy), or limited use of motion (Mario Kart, Wii Play), or none at all (Brawl). So, you'll forgive me if I view WM+ as a sort of "bait-and-switch", or rather a hidden cost to get what was initially advertised.

The Balance Board has a higher price than the Wii Motion Plus so I would expect WM+ to be better received through that fact alone. Although, given that the applications for WM+ aren't as apparent as the Balance Board, they're going to need something which can really demonstrate why this device is worth having. If any game could do that, it'd be Wii Sports.

I'm still going to be honest though... I'm a cheapskate. I hate buying accessories, but is that really such a strange thing? That I don't want to keep spending money on things with limited uses? The only accessories I don't mind buying are controllers and memory cards (non-Wii systems), which are universal across all games.

[NWR_pap64]

I think Nintendo realizes the challenge of releasing MP, and decided to accept it.

The reason I am not bothered by MP's existence at all is that I've grown to accept constant changes in technology.

If the fact that MP exists because it means an additional purchase that could have been implemented in the first product then you have never owned a computer, MP3 player, celphone or any piece of hardware.

What I am getting at is that technology is prone to upgrades, some more substantial than others. MP aims to upgrade the Wiimote so it has better performance and control is further enhanced.

If it suceeds or fails its all up to Nintendo. Wii Sports Resort will be a hit, that's a given. Nintendo will advertise the hell out of the game and it will be a hit. The real success, however, lies in Nintendo's willingness to make more games around the accesory.

And for the record, MP comes with Wii Sports Resort.

And finally, I've yet to fully see anyone toolbox through Wii Sports. People seem to play better acting out the motions that just flicking the controller. You are the freak, then :p .

[GoldenPhoenix]

Everything I've heard about Wii Motion Plus is that you have to try it to understand that it is FREAKEN GREAT. I cannot wait to play Wii Sports Resort with it after reading many of the impressions.

[NWR_pap64]

Yeah, I've yet to read a negative impression of MP and Wii Sports Resorts.

[Mop it up]

you have never owned a computer, MP3 player, cellphone or any piece of hardware.

Of those three things, I own just one: a computer (obviously). It will become ten years old in August of this year, and not once have I purchased any single piece of additional hardware for it. Ever. I got it right the first time. Besides, upgrades weren't a trend with previous Nintendo consoles and they turned out just fine, so why should I embrace them now?

What I am getting at is that technology is prone to upgrades, some more substantial than others. MP aims to upgrade the Wiimote so it has better performance and control is further enhanced.

Not all upgrades are forced though. For example, older iPods can still play all of the same music as the newer models. By the looks of things, Wii Motion Plus games can't be played with a regular Wiimote.

I've yet to fully see anyone toolbox through Wii Sports. People seem to play better acting out the motions that just flicking the controller.

It depends on the game. Everyone I know uses quick flicks for Tennis and Baseball, because the real motions simply don't work. On the other hand, Golf, Boxing, and especially Bowling not only function, but they work well. So well, in fact, that I don't understand why no other games have even attempted to match the control of Wii Sports. Such wasted potential, especially considering it was a launch title. It is kind of pathetic that the Wii needs an upgrade in order to realize its original potential.

Everything I've heard about Wii Motion Plus is that you have to try it to understand that it is FREAKEN GREAT.

The Wii itself is sort of the same way, especially when it first launched. Considering how well Wii Sports "demonstrates" the Wiimote, I'd expect no less than Wii Sports Resort to utilize the WM+ in many creative ways. I can only hope, however, that it doesn't end up remaining the best application for the WM+ similar to how Wii Sports still has the best motion control.

I'd try out the Wii Motion Plus if I get the chance, but I'm not sure if anyone I know will be buying it. I can only hope no game I actually want to play requires the accessory... which basically means no Mario games.

[Stratos]

you have never owned a computer, MP3 player, cellphone or any piece of hardware.

Of those three things, I own just one: a computer (obviously). It will become ten years old in August of this year, and not once have I purchased any single piece of additional hardware for it. Ever. I got it right the first time. Besides, upgrades weren't a trend with previous Nintendo consoles and they turned out just fine, so why should I embrace them now?

What I am getting at is that technology is prone to upgrades, some more substantial than others. MP aims to upgrade the Wiimote so it has better performance and control is further enhanced.

Not all upgrades are forced though. For example, older iPods can still play all of the same music as the newer models. By the looks of things, Wii Motion Plus games can't be played with a regular Wiimote.

(Emphasis added)

The N64, Gamecube, Gameboys and DS all have peripherals or upgrades you can acquire for games. The N64 had the Expansion Pak, Rumble Pak and Transfer Pak. The Expansion Pak was required for some games or for critical features in them.

If you bring Japan into the picture, Nintendo has had online and add-ons since the NES era.

[NWR_pap64]

If I know Nintendo they will make it so that Motion Plus compatible games can be played regularly with the Wiimote.

Even if they tried their hardest to make sure every Wii in every home in America (and Japan, and Europe)  has Motion Plus times four it would be foolish of them to make MP only games.

Its like the balance board. The only two games that absolutely require it are Wii Fit and Wii Music. Wii Fit comes with the board, and in Wii Music its only a small part of the game. Every other game that features balance board support can be played with the Wiimote and nunchuck, even if the game controls the best with the  balance board (as is the case with Shaun White Snowboarding).

Even if the experience is not as exciting as with 1:1 controls at the very least the game is playable without MP.

Like Stratos said, Nintendo has released peripherals and games that required certain peripherals to play. Majora's Mask required the expansion pack and it was a hit, even though it did not carry it. Many Gameboy games could only be played on the GBC and those still sold fine. Every other game that required lots of accessories to be played (like Animal Crossing GC, Four Swords Adventures) could be played without them.

Really Mop I understand you are concerned but maybe you should wait till MP is released and how Nintendo handles it before declaring it a flop and/or ruining Wii gaming? I know I've spoken positively of the device, but I don't even know how Nintendo will use it after its release. So we both should just wait and see, knowing that Nintendo will have a plan.

[vudu]

Of those three things, I own just one: a computer (obviously). It will become ten years old in August of this year, and not once have I purchased any single piece of additional hardware for it. Ever. I got it right the first time.

Are you still running Windows 98?!?

[Ian Sane]

I'm still going to be honest though... I'm a cheapskate. I hate buying accessories, but is that really such a strange thing? That I don't want to keep spending money on things with limited uses? The only accessories I don't mind buying are controllers and memory cards (non-Wii systems), which are universal across all games.

I agree with you and you make tons of sense but I think we're just in the minority.  So much of business relies on people spending money they don't have on stuff they don't need.  I know people who buy a new iPod every year.  How many people on this forum who owned an original DS and a DS Lite will buy the DSi?

Though I don't know why we're discussing Motion+ in a Punch-Out thread.  There's no need for it to support it.  Hell, if you know what Punch-Out is REALLY supposed play like you'll know that the remote itself doesn't even need to be supported.  Punch-Out isn't a boxing game.  If they change it into one then the developers completed missed the point of the game.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

If you know what Paunch-Auht is REALLY supposed to play like you'll know that it doesn't need a new game.

But having a new look with physical rythm gameplay is a nice thought.

[Mop it up]

Sorry in advance about all of the quotes but I can't think of a better way to formulate this post.

The N64, Gamecube, Gameboys and DS all have peripherals or upgrades you can acquire for games. The N64 had the Expansion Pak, Rumble Pak and Transfer Pak. The Expansion Pak was required for some games or for critical features in them.

I wouldn't consider any of the various accessories or peripherals released over the years to be upgrades. The Rumble Pak and Transfer Pak were never a requirement for any game. While the Expansion Pak may have had two games which absolutely required it, most games which supported it used it optionally, and one of those two games was sold with the Pak. Many accessories had exclusive games but they don't count as upgrades unless they try to replace a part of the system, thereby being forced onto people. The exclusives were sort of like a bonus for those who had the accessory but the real meat of the system's games didn't require them. Even with the original PlayStation's upgraded analogue controller replacing the original as the standard, many games still supported the original controller.

System add-ons are hard to classify, as they're more like a new system than they are an upgrade. Whatever they are, their track-record should go to show that such a concept will be met with failure. With the ever-changing times though, suddenly it's acceptable.

If I know Nintendo they will make it so that Motion Plus compatible games can be played regularly with the Wiimote.

What is it which leads you to believe this? I know that Smash and Mario Kart have multiple options but the former doesn't use an accessory and the latter's accessory isn't something Nintendo was going to aggressively pursue. Wii Fit isn't playable without the Balance Board (I think...). The GameCube Wiileases don't allow support for GameCube controllers. Methinks Nintendo is really going to want to push people to use the WM+ and that's easier to do if it's the only choice.

I didn't know Wii Music used the Balance Board. I guess I'll take that off my list.

Many Gameboy games could only be played on the GBC and those still sold fine.

The Game Boy Color was a new system, it wasn't an upgrade. It was more powerful than just a Game Boy with colour.

maybe you should wait till MP is released and how Nintendo handles it before declaring it a flop and/or ruining Wii gaming?

On the contrary, I declared that Wii Sports Resort was going to be a bigger hit than Wii Fit. Considering how well that has sold I'd say I have high expectations for its sales. It isn't going to ruin Wii gaming for me but it could potentially result in a few games which I won't bother with because they require the accessory.

I know I've spoken positively of the device, but I don't even know how Nintendo will use it after its release. So we both should just wait and see, knowing that Nintendo will have a plan.

Like I said, I hope to be able to try it out but I'm not buying it on blind faith. I learned that lesson with SSBBrawl.

In all honesty, I'll probably end up buying it at some point. I complain because I love.

Are you still running Windows 98?!?

Yes. It is the best of Microsoft's operating systems. I don't know why anyone would want Vista as it seems to cause more problems than it solves.

Punch-Out isn't a boxing game. If they change it into one then the developers completely missed the point of the game.

With Next Level Games, you never know. They completely missed the point of a Mario game with Mario Strikers.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Nintendo missed the point of a Mario game by porting an old tennis game.

Strikers is a great game.

[Stratos]

Are you still running Windows 98?!?

Yes. It is the best of Microsoft's operating systems. I don't know why anyone would want Vista as it seems to cause more problems than it solves.

Punch-Out isn't a boxing game. If they change it into one then the developers completely missed the point of the game.

With Next Level Games, you never know. They completely missed the point of a Mario game with Mario Strikers.

I personally enjoy XP. I find it superior to 98 and still very game friendly. Vista I refuse to touch with anything that will then touch my computer.

I disagree with you about Strikers. I found it to be very fun and enjoyable to play.

Also, look at your last post's response to mine, then look at your following response to pap64; I think your first statement answers your second. Accessories like the Rumble and Expansion were not required to play most games.  That logic is what makes pap say what he does about WM+ being optional in other games.

[NWR_pap64]

Stratos: Mop is talking about Striker's style and its take on the Mario Universe. The game features a cartoony, exaggerated outlook on the generally clean Mario universe and it bothers him.

In my opinion, it gave the characters LIFE. No offense to any of the Mario games before it, but I sometimes grow tired of the stiff characters saying the same lines and doing the same stiff motions. Strikers was ballsy enough to portray the Mario characters with actual emotions. Really the characters express themselves in many ways that seemed impossible. The setting might have been the best, but I would KILL to see another Mario game with the clean setting but with the life and attitude seen in Strikers.

I think the Camelot Mario titles did really well with this.

[Mop it up]

I personally enjoy XP. I find it superior to 98 and still very game friendly

I just like '98 because it is the easiest to use. XP is alright though, especially now that the kinks have been worked out.

Also, look at your last post's response to mine, then look at your following response to pap64; I think your first statement answers your second. Accessories like the Rumble and Expansion were not required to play most games. That logic is what makes pap say what he does about WM+ being optional in other games.

Different systems, different accessories, different times. Lots of variables. I hope he's right but I'm not just going to assume it's true. Expect the worst and hope for the best.

For the record, I never stated Mario Strikers Charged wasn't a good game. It just doesn't follow the pick-up-and-play mentality of other Mario games, and is probably the most hardcore Mario game of them all, even more so than the platformers and RPGs. It is very un-Mario, so much so that I'd probably like it better if it didn't have Mario characters in it. It is quite detailed in its animation and presentation, but it isn't in a style which I like, and it sometimes feels a bit mean-spirited. I'm sorry but I just don't like to see Birdo doing crotch-chops. Even I think that's just wrong.

The same could be true for Punch Out!!. It might not be very Punch-Out!!-esque but it could still be good nonetheless.

I think the Camelot Mario titles did really well with this.

I agree on that. Camelot made the best Mario games, which is why I'm sad that they don't seem to be interested in creating any more. All I can do is hope their attitude will change someday.

[vudu]

Are you still running Windows 98?!?

Yes. It is the best of Microsoft's operating systems. I don't know why anyone would want Vista as it seems to cause more problems than it solves.

Windows 98 has horrible resource management.  XP (2nd edition) is great.

[Mop it up]

Windows 98 has horrible resource management.  XP (2nd edition) is great.

I don't even know what that means, which likely indicates it isn't something that would matter based on the limited number of things I use my PC for.