Topic: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #2: Luigi's Mansion)

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Yeah, maybe that was actually a new copy growing moss on the shelves. Amazon.co.jp is listing used copies for around 1,600 yen.

[Sundoulos]

Here are some initial thoughts.  Sorry if it's too long.

In terms of graphics, Luigi's Mansion has aged very, very well, especially considering that it was a launch title for the Cube.  I love the effects of Luigi's flashlight, and the colorful, glowing, ethereal quality of all the ghosts, which, oddly, are probably the most bright and colorful element of the game.  Aside from the boos, they all sort of reminded me of the Haunted Mansion at Disney World for some reason.  The object physics also deserve some mention... I love the way that you can pull tablecloths and curtains with the vacuum; very few games still bother with this sort of thing. 

There is mild Mario-type dry humor lightly sprinkled throughout the game, such as the Gameboy Horror, some of the game's diaglog, and some of the easter eggs hidden in the mansion.   I smiled when I tried to vacuum off the movie screen in the Projector Room and was rewarded with an image on the screen that showed a Boo and red text that said "Get out of here!"  I went around in the mansion just inspecting things with the Gameboy Horror; once when I looked at a toilet in the washroom, Luigi's response was, "Boy, those boos sure built a realistic fake mansion."

The game also oozes character and charm.   I love the little touches they added, such as the shaking in Luigi's hand as he opens a door to an unfamiliar room, Luigi's icy breath when he is in a haunted area (a reference to the Sixth Sense, perhaps?), or the subtle changes in Luigi's expressions and gait when all the ghosts in an area have been defeated.  Who hasn't smiled at least once when they hear Luigi shakily humming or happily whistling along with the game music?  I also love that you can choose to have Luigi call out for Mario, though I was disappointed when I found out that didn't really serve a purpose in the game.  Anyway, that's why I still love this game, despite it's flaws: you can tell that it was carefully designed and crafted.

The controls are a mixed bag.  On one hand, capturing most of the ghosts, such as the normal mansion ghosts, and the ghosts from the paintings, feels great.  This seems to be because you can sort of lock onto the ghosts with the vacuum, and you have to sort of pull back on the control stick in order to capture them.  It sort of gives you the feeling that you are really struggling with the ghosts.  On the other hand, when that locking mechanism is downplayed, I found that controlling Luigi's vaccum with the C-stick was a bit sluggish and inaccurate.  This was particularly evident to me in the fight with the third boss, Boolossus; I had more trouble than I should have in aiming at all the boos floating around, at least when there weren't as many targets to shoot.  Also, capturing some of the boos hidden throughout the mansion could be a real pain since that locking mechanism didn't work as well on them; I often found myself struggling to aim the vaccum in the right direction before they slipped into another room.   This probably just means I suck at using the vacuum.

On the whole, Luigi seems a bit stiff, slow, and very grounded.  This is a problem when the game seems to sell itself as being in the Mario universe, particularly given that, up to that point, fans could usually expect a Mario-style game to launch with each iteration of Nintendo hardware.  Mostly, in a Mario style game you can expect to run, jump around, and explore, but Luigi's Mansion just couldn't live up to those expectations given the way it was designed.  Before I read the previews and early reviews of the game, I was hoping for something more along the lines of an extended Haunted House in Mario 64, albiet with more puzzle solving.  This was all the more sort of a thumb in the eye for long-time Luigi fans such as myself, because we're the nerds who had wanted to be able to play as Luigi in Mario 64.  We finally got a game featuring Luigi, and it wasn't exactly what most of us wanted. 

All that being said, I wish that Nintendo would release a sequel to this game with motion controls or add the existing game to the New Play control! series.  I think it would have been a good fit, but I'm not sure how well it would sell.  I'm sure there are a lot of Wii owners who never experienced Luigi's Mansion that would buy it, though.

[NovaQ]

On the whole, Luigi seems a bit stiff, slow, and very grounded.  This is a problem when the game seems to sell itself as being in the Mario universe, particularly given that, up to that point, fans could usually expect a Mario-style game to launch with each iteration of Nintendo hardware.  Mostly, in a Mario style game you can expect to run, jump around, and explore, but Luigi's Mansion just couldn't live up to those expectations given the way it was designed.  Before I read the previews and early reviews of the game, I was hoping for something more along the lines of an extended Haunted House in Mario 64, albiet with more puzzle solving.  This was all the more sort of a thumb in the eye for long-time Luigi fans such as myself, because we're the nerds who had wanted to be able to play as Luigi in Mario 64.  We finally got a game featuring Luigi, and it wasn't exactly what most of us wanted.

Hopefully I'm not just repeating one of your points, but I think this is one of the reasons a lot of Nintendo fans (not just Luigi fans) had such a negative view of the game upon its launch with the GameCube. Not only did us fans not get a Mario game, we got a game set in the Mario universe with an almost-Mario lead that did not play like a traditional Mario game at all. It felt like a tease at the time, so I went with Rogue Leader instead.

That said, when I did finally try out the game a year or two later, I liked it a lot. It made for a fantastic rental, and if I had picked it up used, I suspect I'd happily go back to it every now and then.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

I for one never felt negativity toward this game as a Luigi or Mario fan. Not at E3 2001. Not when I bought the game. However, I was a tad annoyed by Nintendo's assertion that this was Luigi's first leading role--clearly they wanted to forget about the admittedly crummy but still somewhat enjoyable edutainment title, Mario is Missing.

That said, I pretty much agree with Sundulous' assessment of the game, based on my recollection of multiple playthroughs in the first few years of the GameCube's life. It's a game of details and charm. Much like scanning in Metroid Prime, exploring the mansion's intricacies and the physics is part of the fun and extends the game's life. The controls are a tad tank-ish...possibly on purpose as part of the Resident Evil homage. I wish I could play my copy of the game again--I played it before any of the Resident Evil series.

[NWR_Lindy]

I still can't find my copy.  I gotta keep looking!

[Stratos]

Well folks, I really wanted to revisit this game with you. I've even located a reasonably-priced used Japanese Wii. But game rentals are a no-no in Japan, and they want 4,800 yen (!) for a used copy of Luigi Mansion. That's, like, $50. W. T. F.

Plenty of other games are reasonably priced at that store. Is this some sort of cult favorite out in Japan? It's the same freaking price I paid for the North American version new in 2001--and I still own that copy! OoooOooh, Weegie so sad!

Do they have something similar to the Action Replay in Japan you could use? Then you could use your US copy.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

I have my North American Wii with me. As I stated earlier, my problem is that I currently have no way to retrieve my copy of Luigi's Mansion from the states.

[Jonnyboy117]

The fact that Luigi can't jump doesn't bother me, but the weird controls do.  He rotates too slowly, and I can't tell ANY difference between "Standard" and "Side-Step" controls.

The main thing I've noticed is un-Nintendo style of how the game flows.  There's no natural progression at all -- you have to constantly check the map to see where you are and where you can go.  Keys often send you across the map for no clear reason.  The first and second floors are nearly identical, so it's easy to get them confused.  And there have been a couple of times already that I had no idea where to go next and had to check GameFAQs.  The first was a case of needing to capture more Boos before I could proceed.  The second time, I had been down the well and got out of there without killing the ghost that would give me the next key.  I assumed that I didn't need to get him, since that type of ghost usually just drops hearts.

[Stratos]

  And there have been a couple of times already that I had no idea where to go next and had to check GameFAQs.  The first was a case of needing to capture more Boos before I could proceed.  The second time, I had been down the well and got out of there without killing the ghost that would give me the next key.  I assumed that I didn't need to get him, since that type of ghost usually just drops hearts.

That's what my 10-year-old sister is for  . She and I are are playing through it together for this and she kept telling me to kill it and I was saying its just a regular ghost and ignored it. Then when she took her turn she kept going there trying to get it and when the key popped up I felt bad for not listening to her.

I also got stuck in the game and she had to remind me of the candles in the fortune tellers room where a key was hidden. She remembers this game better than I do

I agree that the level flow is rather off of the usual Nintendo beat. Was the developer different from other Mario games?

[Sundoulos]

This appears to be the only difference in the standard and sidestep modes:  In standard mode, Luigi will turn to face a direction before walking in that direction. In sidestep mode, Luigi won't turn to face a direction before walking that way. In both modes, the c-stick is then used to change the direction he's facing manually. No matter what mode the player chooses, Luigi uses sidestep mode controls while vacuuming.

It does seem that the key/locked room placements are fairly far apart, particularly in the last third of the game.  That and the blackout event after the third boss sort of gives me the feeling that they were trying to pad the game a bit by forcing a bit of backtracking across the mansion. 

Tweaking the controls for speed would have allowed for a better experience.  In general, some of the boss battles felt sort of weak because Luigi and the boss seem to move more slowly than they should.   In particular, I'm thinking about the boss in the cemetary, Bogmire, who, now that I consider it, seems to have a very appropriate name. 

The game seems to alternate between holding the player's hand and then occassionally throwing in an occasionally obscure roadblock, giving little indication about what to do next.  Case in point: Johnny's example of the obscurely hidden key.  (Maybe they should have added a key-detecting feature to the Gameboy Horror.)  Anyway, I've been briefly stuck a couple of times but I haven't had to check a FAQ yet.  I think that I would have had to reference one if I hadn't vaguely remembered it from my original playthrough of the game years ago.   While I wouldn't call many of the puzzle elements difficult, it seems like the designers just decided to occassionally throw in the odd puzzle with little warning and little indication with what to do, (e.g. I was stumped in the room where a switch was hidden in the invisible foreground wall).   I can't complain too much about it because I wish they had actually included more puzzles or events in the game, as long as they were well-integrated into the game world. 

Here's one other minor gripe.  The game indicates that you can catch 50 boos, which, at first seems like it's an optional sidequest (at least to me).  I did finally encounter the boo roadblack Johnny mentioned above, but I  never encountered this during my original playthrough.   They warped me back to the foyer of the mansion; that was just annoying for two reasons:  I was really just trying to exploring and boo-hunting in the first place, and the Gameboy Horror lured me into that encounter because it was beeping.    I also found it kind of weird that you automatically get 30% of your boos just by beating the third boss.

Wow.  Even though my post looks like I'm hating on the game, I really do have to stress that I still love it and have really enjoyed playing it.  Luigi's Mansion is still one of my favorite games from the cube generation.  pLooking back on this post, it sounds like I'm hating on the game.  I'd reiterate that the game has a very great atmosphere and art design, and the modeling detail they put into Luigi and the Mansion's ghosts wasn't matched by many games in that generation, I think.   I still wish that there were some sort of sequel or another off-shoot coming, something that could realize a lot of the potential the game showed in the SpaceWorld 2000 demo video. 


P.S.: I stumbled on a couple of things in a Mario wiki: 

If Luigi walks into any dark room the player can hear monsters. Pausing or using the Gameboy Horror in a dark room, one can hear that the monsters are singing the Luigi's Mansion theme song.  I never tried this, but I'll have to check it out.

Apparently, the PAL version of the Hidden Mansion (the second quest of sorts) was more difficult than the NTSC version. 

[Stratos]

Is it me or is the final boss ridiculously hard? I just can't keep from dieing.
I don't remember having this problem back in the day. In fact I seem to remember killing it in one try.

[Jonnyboy117]

I can't even figure out how to damage the final boss.  I thought maybe I could get fire power from his flaming breath, but that doesn't seem to work.

Capturing all the Boos didn't seem too bad for most of the game, but the last few are just plain annoying.  I fought three Boos in a row with 300 HP who kept flying back and forth between a room and a hallway.  I had to go back and forth over a dozen times on each one of these guys.  They aren't hard, just hardy.

[NovaQ]

I remember the last boss taking me a long time to figure out when I played the game. If you want a clue without just looking at GameFAQs or YouTube: start by sucking in a spike ball.

[Stratos]

I can't even figure out how to damage the final boss.  I thought maybe I could get fire power from his flaming breath, but that doesn't seem to work.

Capturing all the Boos didn't seem too bad for most of the game, but the last few are just plain annoying.  I fought three Boos in a row with 300 HP who kept flying back and forth between a room and a hallway.  I had to go back and forth over a dozen times on each one of these guys.  They aren't hard, just hardy.

On the third floor I was juggling like five 300+ HP boos between the rooms. It got very tedious. Though the basement ones were worse because of hoe the dust reset itself and you had to vacuum it up each time to get by.

I finally beat the final boss. My dad had fun mocking me for getting old and rusty in my videogame skills.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

In response to the latest RFN episode: I seem to recall the regular ghosts' animations playing a role in whether or not they are stunned by the flashlight. Perhaps I'm just thinking of the portrait ghosts, though.

[Jonnyboy117]

Is there a way to get hearts during the final boss?  Otherwise, it seems nearly impossible.

[Stratos]

I finally figured out how to beat it.
The key is to move away from Bowser so that he throws the spike balls, but not so far away that he jumps up and lands on you opposed to just charging toward you. I hide behind a pillar when the balls are thrown and then grab one real fast. You can throw the balls at bowser even when he is spouting flames, it just has to make contact with the head. Then when King Boo comes out you go directly under KB and move from side to side to avoid the Bowser head ice attacks while sucking KB.
If you get swallowed you can easily lose a third of your health. So be sure to clear out if he looks to be doing that.


The boss does seem to be a bit OP'd I believe. But it is doable. Back in the day I seem to recall beating it in one try though I could be wrong. I don't think it is just the boss itself that is annoying but more the fact that when you die it is a pain to go all the way back down there, through the blasted dust room and through the final boss monologue EVERY time you freakin' die.

[NovaQ]

Is there a way to get hearts during the final boss?  Otherwise, it seems nearly impossible.

If he runs into the pillars, it destroys them and yields hearts. Even still, though, you have to find a good rhythm and range for your attacks and defense to take him down.

[Stratos]

Is there a way to get hearts during the final boss?  Otherwise, it seems nearly impossible.

If he runs into the pillars, it destroys them and yields hearts. Even still, though, you have to find a good rhythm and range for your attacks and defense to take him down.

I only ever saw poison mushrooms appear. Curious.

[NovaQ]

Is there a way to get hearts during the final boss?  Otherwise, it seems nearly impossible.

If he runs into the pillars, it destroys them and yields hearts. Even still, though, you have to find a good rhythm and range for your attacks and defense to take him down.

I only ever saw poison mushrooms appear. Curious.

That's funny, as I've only ever seen hearts...

[Stratos]

Is there a way to get hearts during the final boss?  Otherwise, it seems nearly impossible.

If he runs into the pillars, it destroys them and yields hearts. Even still, though, you have to find a good rhythm and range for your attacks and defense to take him down.

I only ever saw poison mushrooms appear. Curious.

That's funny, as I've only ever seen hearts...

I really could have used some of those hearts too! They would have saved me a great heap of trouble. 

Is anyone considering doing the second, secret mansion? I started it but only got to the first portrait ghost. It feels a but easier to suck up the ghosts. Though maybe I'm just used to the controls now versus when I initially started the game.

[Jonnyboy117]

Sorry, I'm giving up on Bowser.  It's too difficult (especially compared to the rest of the game, wow) and the payoff isn't going to be worth it.  I tried half a dozen times and never even took half of King Boo's HP.  Nor did I ever see a single heart come out of a pillar.

[Stratos]

Did you see my advise in the spoiler tags a few posts back? Did that help you any? Is there any video on youtube that could show you some pointers?

It was terribly frustrating for me as well and it was only the goading of my father that I had lost my gaming skills that I pushed through to the end.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Woohoo, it is back. So here is my comment!

Is it just me or does Luigi's Mansion have one of the most morbid and disturbing boss battles of any Mario game? Especially considering the context of the prophecies. It still creeps me out and I remember at the time it made me fear who the main villain WASN'T in Super Mario Sunshine.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Sorry, I'm giving up on Bowser.  It's too difficult (especially compared to the rest of the game, wow) and the payoff isn't going to be worth it.  I tried half a dozen times and never even took half of King Boo's HP.  Nor did I ever see a single heart come out of a pillar.

I am better then Jonny in a game? WOW!

When I first got the game at launch after I figured out how to hurt him I managed to beat him in 2 tries.