Topic: Do You think that Nintendo will ever change their image?

[Lazerman_X2]

I think they will. What do you think?

[The Omen]

  Their image is a company that makes great games, so no.  If you mean more mature titles, they've already started with Metroid Prime and ED(2ND PARTY)  

[Hemmorrhoid]

Thats really impossible to say. Nintendo didnt start off with such an image, so it might leave just like it once came, you can never tell.
And anyway, once Nintendo bring out irresistible games, everyone will want a cube even if it is the kiddiest console.
IMO it is the kiddiest console, but also the most fun.

[Squall]

No, because they don't seem to care.  Look at the commercial for Zelda.  Was there any attempt at trying to explain the cel-shaded look?  Any attempt to try and ake it look appealing?  No, they tried to sell it on the Zelda name.  And if people associate Zelda with Nintendo and Nintendo with kiddy, they're not changing anything.  The way I see it, they took a risk with Zelda and then tried to cover it up. The Mario and Animal Crossing commercials were just plain stupid.  What are they thinking?  Now, they probably do know more about it than me, but I'm not one to complain often.  Metroid Prime sold some 250 000 copies it's first week, and then dropped off.  Why?  Because it was competing with Splinter Cell and Vice City, and it's commerical didn't show the one thing it had over those games.  It was the better game.  It's not like no one does it, I say start making commericals that show how good the games are, not the crap they're putting out now.

[bonestormer]

I think they will because they have to. Yesterday's announcement about lowering royalties to 3rd parties and saying 3rd parties are important is a HUGE change from Nintendo's past almost contempt for 3rd parties.

I'll say it again, image is everything. What do people think when they think of each console?

PS2: GTA3, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear
Xbox: Halo, Xbox Live, Splinter Cell
GC: Mario, Zelda, Pokemon

The reality of each doesn't matter, it's the IMAGE of each that is most important. The issue of being kiddy is only part of it. The issue is Nintendo needs to show that 'GameCube' means more then just Mario and Zelda. And don't point out that GC has a few mature games. The point is the IMAGE of Nintendo isn't of RE and Eternal Darkness, it still is of Mario and Zelda and Pokemon. And that needs to be expanded to include the Metroids the EDs and a numer of huge 3rd party blockbusters like GTA is to PS2.

[ThePerm]

i liked the animal crossing commercials....i thought they were hillarious...you ever watch real world?

[Ninja X]

Very good points, Squall and Bonestormer.

I know people who like playing "If I was Nintendo, I would..." but in reality, Rick was partially right when he said profits count the most.  Profits and a good reputationa re the most important, I think.  So far, Nintendo's mature showing is lackluster.  Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness?  Both sold poorly.  I don't care how many hundreds of thousands of unit they sold, neither of them are not even close to breaking a million worldwide last time I checked.  Capcom was a good start towards breaking their kiddy reputation, but in order to woo developers, I think it's time Nintendo stop pumping out Marios, Zeldas, and Pokemons every few years and concentrate on original games.  A major complaint from developers is that they can't compete with Mario and Zelda.  The stats prove that right.  The only GCN game in the top ten selling games of 2002 was Mario Sunshine.  Plus, original games can give birth to more franchises that can woo more gamers over.  Pikmin is my fav game on the GCN because it's the only great original Nintendo first-party game for the console.  Next is Eternal Darkness, yet another original game from a Nintendo second-party.  After that is Super Smash Bros. Melee.  Even though the game was started on N64, it's still a new franchise from Nintendo.    

As for Nintendo's advertising, I completely agree with Squall.  They suck bad.  Cube Clubs was a very promising start to what looked to be great ad campaigns for GCN, but it all fell apart once we saw for the very first time the pile of dung that was the Mario Sunshine commercial.  Honestly, I saw people laugh at it all day in school.  And yet, Nintendo wonders why Sunshine didn't do so well...

I just think the best thing for them to do is make original games and have more better-quality advertising.  It might mean lower profits, but the risk is well worth it if you can woo mature gamers.  
 

[Michael8983]

Nintendo has already made it clear it has no intention of "changing it's ways".
It's going to continue making the same kind of games it's always made regardless of whether they're "cool" or not and I, for one, respect that. Even if Nintendo did somehow convince everyone that its console was cool without having to change its game style, it wouldn't be worth the trouble. People would run out and buy the console but they still wouldn't buy Nintendo's "uncool" games. In that case, Nintendo might make some more money from hardware sales and royalty fees but that wouldn't make up for the massive amount of money it would have to spend on advertising to convince people its console is cool. A lot of so called Nintendo "fans" seem to think Nintendo should sacrafice everything that makes it Nintendo and become just like Sony to be number one again and that probably is the only way it could ever be number one again. So, realizing that, I'm perfectly happy with Nintendo where it is. It's still number one in profits and that's where it really counts anyway.
Nintendo is in the enviable situation where it gets to do whatever the hell it wants, not worry about being popular, advertise very little, and still make hundereds of millions of dollars each year in a time when just about every other company in the world is suffering. Seriously, no one should pity it.

[Darc Requiem]

While I agree with you Ninja X, Metroid has sold over million worldwide. Granted only 70,000 of those sales came from Japan but honestly that was to be expected. I'm not sure of the numbers in Europe but Metroid in the US alone has about a million copies sold. Now on to the pathetic monstrousity that was the Mario Sunshine commerical....after seeing that commercial I'm surprised they sold as many copies as they did....the commercial was the worst commercial I have seen for anything...ever! Nintendo doesn't need to change their image, they need to change how they are perceived. In actuality Nintendo is fine, they're problem is they let competitors pigeon hole them into a "kiddie" image and don't fight back. I mean they could have creamed Sony over "kiddie" games. They are way too passive.....I understand not stooping to the competition's level but there is nothing wrong with defending themselves. Nintendo themselves should continue making the games that they make. Thats what makes them Nintendo and I wouldn't change that. They just need to actively persue 3rd parties to provide the games they aren't able to make or recruit enough 2nd parties to fill the gaps that 3rd parties don't fill.

Darc Requiem

[Samwise Gamgee]

personally, i think nintendo WANTS to be kiddy! obviously they have people working on demographics and what they have seen is that over the years, probibly mostly children have been buying their systems! growing up as kids, all of us pretty much grew up with nintendo as kids, and now that u r older, u r still with nintendo! i think thats what nintendo wants! nintendo wants to appeal to the child!

its true that u guys have barely seen any nintendo commercials advertising, but the truth is, they did advertise alot!! if u wanted to see their commercials often, you could probibly see them alot during the commercials of saturday morning cartoons! every time i woke up in the morning and flipped through the stations on saturdays i always saw a mario commercial!

look at how they designed the nintendo! they made it a little cute cube with a handle, and the main colour of it was purple! nintendo wants to be the council of choice for parents! thats why the mario commercial was so bad! they figured that the mario name would just sell to us, but for the little kids, a realy bad commercial like that would make them laugh and make them want it!

so dont be upset that nintendo has a kiddy image and doesnt do anything to shake it because chances are that they want that kiddy image!!! take zelda for instance! we all kno zelda is a great game and will probibly buy it! if it was a mature looking game, parents whould probibly not buy it for their kid and get them introduced into the zelda franchize! but what nintendo did was take the best of both worlds! they made a great zelda game with great gameplay, but also made it look childish enough so that parents would not has second thoughts picking it up for their kid!

[bonestormer]

Yes profits are king. I just wonder if they will last with N relying so heavily on the Marios and Zeldas. If the trend of reducing sales continues, they won't stay profitable in the long run. However, the more I think about it though, maybe Nintendo won't change there ways at least as long as they are making money. I take this quote from Zelda: Wind Waker (from a guy who runs a 'Nintendo' establishment in the game):

"We are losing members due to a lack of "gimmicky attractions". No worry, true fans know we're the coolest."

I just wonder what "gimmicky attractions" he is referring to? And shouldn't it concern them at all they are losing 'members'? Again, at this trend they will be down to just diehard Nintendo fans supporting their system. And I don't think that relativly small group (compared to the huge groups of casual gamers) are enough. Hence then and maybe only then, will N wake up and try and change. Could be ugly for awhile though. But like I also said, them FINALLY admitting 3rd parties are key these days, a change could be coming sooner.

[The Omen]

Quote
So far, Nintendo's mature showing is lackluster. Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness? Both sold poorly.

Aren't we talking about perception?  We're not talking about actual sales.  We;'re talking about changing.  By the way, MP is around a million here in the states.  In Japan, Metroid has never sold well, and making it a FP perspective definately does not appeal to the japanese.  I'm willing to bet if there's a sequel to ED, it would sell considerably better.

I don't really care if they are perceived to have changed or not, because, in reality, they still make the best games. But for Nintendo to expand, then I recognize they have to, if not change, offer different genres of games.    

[SoulPlayer]

Someone needs to explain to Nintendo that they are not #1 anymore (except for GBA or GBA SP) and that they need to come up with better commercials, The Zelda commercial was pretty good and the full Metriod Prime commercials were good but the SMS commercial was horrible I almost cried at how they destroyed the game. At school everyone was laughing at it at least try to show some great game shots in the commercial but what do we get some people and a guy dressed as Mario and the game shots we got were of Mario hovering over the ground. Nintendo has gotten some what better at commercials but when you'r promoting a game like Mario try and make it look good. And to me the real reason why ED didn't sell well was because no one knew it was coming out. The casual gamer never knew the game was coming out I mean the ED commercial was pretty good but I only saw it twice on TV and when I did see it it was on late night Comedy Central they should have put more money into promoting the commercial. I hope they try better in promoting F-Zero GC, Wario World, WWE Wrestlemania XIX, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Pikmin 2, Metroid Prime 2(when it comes out), Too Human, P.N. 03, Viewtful Joe, Resident Evil 4, Dead Pheonix, Killer 7, Star Fox Armada, as for the 3rd party games I mentioned help the 3rd parties make the commercials and give them money. Hopefully Nintendo will realize that even though they are making great profits if they want to sell more systems then improve the perception of there games.  

[Squall]

Quote
personally, i think nintendo WANTS to be kiddy

Not so much kiddy as for everyone.  They want to make games that will be good for kids, teens, adults, everyone.  So instead of making games that appeal to a certain audience, why not just make one about the game?  Quote magazines and websites who reviewed it, give scores, stuff like that.

I'd like to see only 1 Mario, Zelda, Metroid or Pokemon game a generation.  No more spinoffs either unless they'll use the license well (like SSBM).  I never played much of Luigi's Mansion, but did the Mario universe really play a major role in the game?  I'd like to see them stop relying on the license for it sell and start relying on it being a good game.  And if they advertise it as a good game and give proof (like I said before), I'm betting it will sell well.

[Clonester]

Quote
Originally posted by: SoulPlayer
. I hope they try better in promoting F-Zero GC, Wario World, WWE Wrestlemania XIX, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Pikmin 2, Metroid Prime 2(when it comes out), Too Human, P.N. 03, Viewtful Joe, Resident Evil 4, Dead Pheonix, Killer 7, Star Fox Armada, as for the 3rd party games I mentioned help the 3rd parties make the commercials and give them money. Hopefully Nintendo will realize that even though they are making great profits if they want to sell more systems then improve the perception of there games.

Are you talking about promoting those games on TV? Do you know how much that would cost??? Nintendo would never make the money back in sales. They do have a fair amount of money, but they aren't Mr. Gates.

Quote
Originally posted by: Squall
. Was there any attempt at trying to explain the cel-shaded look?

Why does Nintendo have to account for not making the game the way some shallow individuals would have liked the graphic's style to be? Most of the people that complain about the artistic style graphics have no intentions of playing the game or have a closed mind about it, so even a kickin commercial would have no affect.


To add to the main point, Nintendo's image will most likely change with the next console if they have a good lauch,wbut not until then. The Gamecube's image is already determined, and no one action short of the main Final Fantasy series being exclusive will change that. The most important factor in determining a console's image is it's launch. Sony had a year from it's official American launch to build up enough titles to blow away Nintendo and Microsoft when they launched. On top of that, the Xbox had Halo. What did Nintendo have? A horrible launch and a purple console. THAT is why Nintendo's image is the way it is. Not Pokemon, not Mario, not a lack of commercials, not a lack of "mature" games, but a bad launch with nothing to turn people to Nintendo, and much to turn them away from them. Even if someone does not buy a console until a year or two after, their mind's are made up at launch or soon there after.

All they can do now is play a bit of catchup, and continue to produce high calibre titles.

[Luciferschild]

In a word....no. I do wish nintendo would change their image and approach. I'm not saying they should sell only sex and ultra-violent games but in sticking with their kiddie image and kiddie ways they're never going to gain any ground. They do need to make a few of those types of games though and market the hell out of them because that's the only thing that will get anyones attention. I never thought of mario and zelda as kiddie games, that's what I grew up playing. But making wind waker the way they did....that alienated me and I was the most hardcore fan. What they need to do is be more balanced which means doing something to satisfy the gamers like me who want games with cool badass characters and a certain degree of diffuculty. There is lack of original mature games, just ED(thought it sucked) and RE isn't going to get it done. Where's the shooters and games like devil may cry or tenchu? I want to be a freaken ninja once in a while damnit. Making games where you control a bunch of flowers ain't gonna help. Take Skies of Arcadia for instance, I'm very into this game, I think it's cool and it's rated "teen". The other thing is their advertising is atrocious, I think we all agree on that. All this being said, I've accepted that nintendo will never change their kiddie image and kiddie ass ways. They lack the machismo.  

[Ninja X]

Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen

Quote
So far, Nintendo's mature showing is lackluster. Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness? Both sold poorly.

Aren't we talking about perception?  We're not talking about actual sales.  We;'re talking about changing.  By the way, MP is around a million here in the states.  In Japan, Metroid has never sold well, and making it a FP perspective definately does not appeal to the japanese.  I'm willing to bet if there's a sequel to ED, it would sell considerably better.

I don't really care if they are perceived to have changed or not, because, in reality, they still make the best games. But for Nintendo to expand, then I recognize they have to, if not change, offer different genres of games.

Yes, we are talking about public image.  Basically, Nintendo's attempt to change their image so far as not been successful.  Meanwhile, two people have said Metroid sold over a million worldwide.  Wow...I thought it sold like 700,000 copies.  Can one person please provide me with a chart confirming this?    

Don't start assuming a sequel will sell better.  Some sequels never do sell better, especially depending on the competition they face with the big games that come out around the same time period as they do.  

Why do many people assume it requires more advertising to appeal to gamers?  No...in Nintendo's case, which I clearly said, it requires BETTER-QUALITY advertising.  They could have done a much better job on the Sunshine commercial.  That was wasted money.

Nintendo is trying to change its image.  They have stated that over and over.  They are progressing, which is a good thing.  I still think Nintendo should at least develop a mature game internally, but that would break their moral code of delivering games to everybody.  

[Lazerman_X2]

Hey, um, what i was leaning at more was thier "commercial" image. Do you think they will start having more TV adds and such, or not..... I think they might have a little more... I haven't seen any for a while, but I have been seeing more commercails from nintendo lately... That's what i meant. sorry..

[RahXephon]

in cae you all didn't already know, you can't change your image, people are to stubborn.  Only if you leave for a long time then come back can you change anything.  

I also think that image is an excuse to try anything.  What is your defintion of "kiddy" and "mature".  What do you want nintendo to do, say, "OK, we are now making mainstream games to make money instead of fun and quality.  Thats what people seem to want, cheap thrills as appose to those that are lasting."

In My opinion this is like comparing, say, a all-age anime like trigun or Escaflowne(this is NINTENDO) to shows like the Bachelor and Fear Factor.  while the first two may be more kiddy, if watched completely they give you a lasting feeling and can be remembered, while the second two can be enjoyable, but only at that moment, basically it is a cheap thrill.  

If Nintendo really did have an image, then no one could argue it, because it would then be an attribute, like size or color.  However that is not the case.  The only conclusion that can be reached from this is that the "image" actually comes from ourselves and our own personal expetations.  People have a tendency to think that the world sares their view, but that is not so, many people may find what is kiddy to be very fun and involving.

IMAGE is just a fancy word for stereo-typing.  It has some base of truth, but it is very small and exagerated.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Squall
No, because they don't seem to care.  Look at the commercial for Zelda.  Was there any attempt at trying to explain the cel-shaded look?  Any attempt to try and ake it look appealing?  No, they tried to sell it on the Zelda name.  And if people associate Zelda with Nintendo and Nintendo with kiddy, they're not changing anything.  The way I see it, they took a risk with Zelda and then tried to cover it up. The Mario and Animal Crossing commercials were just plain stupid.  What are they thinking?  Now, they probably do know more about it than me, but I'm not one to complain often.  Metroid Prime sold some 250 000 copies it's first week, and then dropped off.  Why?  Because it was competing with Splinter Cell and Vice City, and it's commerical didn't show the one thing it had over those games.  It was the better game.  It's not like no one does it, I say start making commericals that show how good the games are, not the crap they're putting out now.

The Animal Crossing commercials are GREAT. And remember, they ARE selling these games, they have to advertise them...can't sell something they don't have...

[penguincube]

Um, they have slightly with some more mature games, but I don't think thier ovreall image as a kiddy company will change, and I hope it doesn't because they make great games and thats what counts.

[Ian Sane]

I think one way that Nintendo could greatly improve their TV ads would be if they showed more in-game footage.  All of their ads usually have a bunch of people in costumes for the bulk of the commercial with a few quick shots of the game at the end.  Now this sort of advertising made sense with the N64 because at the time graphics were still quite blocky and blurry and weren't really good enough to sell the game on their own.  However today's graphics can easily sell themselves.  Look at game commercials for competing consoles like Halo, GTA (both 3 & Vice City), Splinter Cell, etc.  All of them show virtually nothing but in-game footage.  GTA3 didn't need a bunch of actors playing crooks to sell the game.  The game footage was good enough to show what the game was about.

At E3 Nintendo alway has all these amazing game trailers that just knock us out of our seats the first time we see them.  Why not just show those trailers instead of hiring a bunch of actors to play the characters?  When you see a commercial for a movie do you see people talking about the movie or footage from the movie?

The casual gamer these days is influenced greatly by graphics.  They see all of these PS2 and Xbox ads that are nothing but in-game footage and get interested.  Meanwhile these same people think the Gamecube is the weakest graphically of the three consoles because they've never really gotten a good look at the graphics.  They just see a bunch of dorks in costumes and never see the games.  Nobody buys dorks in costumes, they buy games so focus on the games.

[Stimutacs Addict]

simple tongue-in-cheek kinda jokes and slogans could help some games sell (or not, but a catchphrase always helps)

"You're not on Ecstasy, you're playing F-Zero"  <- über lame, and drug references are rarely approved of, but i know some people at my high school that would actually look into the game if it had a drug reference... its sad

[Ninja X]

I still think Nintendo should fire its marketing board.  Yeah, people in costumes going around doing what they character their imitating usually does in the game really makes me want to buy a game.

[Mario]

I think Nintendo are aware of the hole that they have dug themselves into, and we've been seeing changes to the company ever since Iwata stepped up to the plate. Personally, i think Nintendo is on its way up, and possibly in a few years time they can be number one again.

1 - Zelda preorder deal has been very successful.
2 - Get one game free with a new gamecube deal.
3 - Amazingly slick looking, heavily marketed Platinum GC.
4 - Amazingly slick looking, heavily marketed and very successful GBA SP launched.
5 - Much better PAL conversions and great Zelda, Metroid bundles given to Europe.
6 - Zelda added to free deal in US.
7 - Royalty fees lowered to encourage third-party support
8 - Splinter Cell - among others - pushed forth to be released at the same time as the PS2 version!
9 - Namco's Soul Calibur performs best on Gamecube.
10-Relationship with EA strengthened.
11-Final Fantasy on its way to Gamecube.
12-Metal Gear Solid GC finally mentioned.
13-Actual Nintendo officials finally recognizing how important 3rd-party support is to survive the console wars.
14-Nintendo have the top three best selling games in Australia.
15-Nintendo Europe are putting 5 million Euros behind Zelda advertising campaign
16-Nintendo are supplying us with some damn good games, some of the best games ive ever played are on GC.
17-Resident Evil exclusive to Nintendo GameCube.

Now lets look at Nintendo's E3 2003 lineup;

Original EAD Franchise(s)
Mario Kart GC
Mario 128
Pikmin 2
F-Zero GC
Kirby's Air Ride
Pokemon
Animal Crossing 2
Star Fox Armada
Donkey Kong GC
Wario's World
Mario Golf GC
Mario Tennis GC
1080 Avalanche
Fire Emblem GC
GC Wars
Mother 3
Too Human
Original Silicon Knights Project
Metroid Prime 2
Game Zero (Zoonami)
Custom Robo GC
Giftpia
Sonic Hero
Billy Hatcher & The Giant Egg
Virtua Fighter Quest
Joy Carry
Skies of Arcadia 2
Baten Kaitos
Soul Calibur 2
Tales of Symphonia
Metal Gear Solid
Resident Evil 4
Killer 7
Viewtiful Joe
Dead Phoenix
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron 3

I dont think ANYTHING can compete with that incredible list of games. Especially since they are all EXCLUSIVE! I only see good things in the Nintendo Gamecube's future, just wait and see. Nintendo ARE waking up, and they are starting to realise that it isnt 1988 anymore. Just wait til E3