Topic: Zelda: Does it need to change?

[NWR_Lindy]

I'd like to see some deeper RPG-style character customization.  Zelda has become very predictable in terms of the way your characters advances during the story.  You get bombs, then you get a bow and arrow, then you get flaming arrows, then you get a bigger sword, bigger wallet, etc.  I'd like to see them break away from that and let you do stuff like make potions, for example (I'm thinking Eternal Darkness).  Also being able to buy different types of swords and armor would be really cool.  Get away from the predictability and let players experiment a little, if they so desire.

[Shecky]

I'd like to see some deeper RPG-style character customization.

No thanks.  One of the reasons I actually like the Zelda games is it's complete abstraction of any RPG elements.  No stats, no weapons that break, no skills, etc.  In fact I struggle to find a game that rips off the formula at all.  You'd think someone would have tried... even if it's blatant.  Why there are no 3D Zelda clones is beyond me.

[Chozo Ghost]

Okami is a blatant Zelda clone, from what I understand.

[SixthAngel]

After Phantom Hourglass, no.  It fixed most all of the problems I had in Zelda games (talked about it a few weeks ago on the DS board) and added some new fresh twists and a superior control scheme.  I also liked how it gave a new character besides Link to constantly have around and talk (Linebeck).

[mantidor]

Okami is a blatant Zelda clone, from what I understand.

I was going to mention the same thing, and its quite a good clone. Unfortunately it really seems to be the only one.

[KDR_11k]

I don't think it qualifies as that good of a clone, the areas are pretty much discarded once you finish them except every new power you get has spots to use it on in the older areas.

[jakeOSX]

i'd like the ruppees i get to actually be worth something. since OOT they mainly just sit unused in my wallet.

a first person zelda would be no good. it would be like oblivion with more suck. OOT WW and TP have shown that third person zelda is a great way of doing it, the change, i think, should be in the game.

in that sense, robbing from Oblivion (or western RPG's in general) wouldn't be a bad idea. a huge open world, more towns/cities, etc. don't make exploration/travel linear. i'm not saying link should do quests with the assassin's guild, but not all items/upgrades need to be dungeon based either.

dungeons are fine, but i agree with the block pushing puzzles. sheesh. one of my favorate parts of WW was sneaking into the castle and hiding under the jars.

somewhere else WW succeeded was in the story. the bad guys took your sister! this wasn't some existential desire to save the world as a whole, this was a quest to get your sister back. you just happened to save the world on the way.

if they make hyrule a living breathing place, then even if, as Ian pointed out, you already know it, it will still have that something that makes you look forward to exploring it.

oh and having a real threat of death wouldn't be bad. not saying everything should be boss hard to fight, but it would be nice to actually be worried some of the times...

[EasyCure]

I was actually very surprised at the lack of a water level in Wind Waker. You couldn't even dive!

Yeah, that's true! In TP you could explore the underwater world of the Zora's and Lake Hylia, but in WW despite the overabundance of water, you could only sail on it...

i think diving into a vast ocean that you couldnt really exploe would be kind of annoying.

Why shouldn't you be able to have stuff to explore? Nintendo should have put in some sunken cities like Atlantis where you can explore the underwater ruins with your Zora suit, or yeah, there should be some Zora levels as well... and what about sunken ships? Link could explore wrecks and find treasure chests in them.

They also shouldn't have rushed the game out with less dungeons than at first planned. Imagine how far they woulda got if they did impliment sunken cities or shipwrecks

Besides, like i said before not being able to dive increases the mystery of whats underneath the waves. What if you dived down to a certain point and due to some graphical glitch saw Hyrule Castle early on in the game?

[Stogi]

Honestly, that would have made me more eager to play through the story.

[Mop it up]

Make the new Zelda a side-scroller.

*gets shot*

[nitsu niflheim]

I want more CDi Zelda.

[King of Twitch]

I wouldn't mind seeing Zelda change

[Shecky]

oh and having a real threat of death wouldn't be bad. not saying everything should be boss hard to fight, but it would be nice to actually be worried some of the times...

Ironically, I was playing trough the original Zelda the other week and got to Level 6 rather easy... However, I did die 6 or so times on my way to that point, and Lv 6 has claimed 4 more deaths on top of that.  That caused me to start paying more attention to what was different between this game and current 3D ones.  I think the major difference is the number of enemies at once and the ability to get hit rather rapidly in 2D.  Also, the original title doesn't implement what I like to call the Goldeneye hit system... where only the first strike counts and subsequent followups wont do harm until a set time passes (however short).

What that means is that in Lv6 when your surrounded by Wizrobes that like to synchronously fire ... if you get caught in that crossfire, a nice chunk of health disappears fast.  The amount of damage doesn't seem to far off where it used to be... although, I believe you have more hearts/health in the later games.

Edit: I'll also note a few other key differences:
- The level of hearts that appear from enemies is very low in LoZ... fairies are even less.  No pots to rely on either... Since the drops are random'ish too, it makes you more concerned about losing power to begin with.
- Continuing starts you off with only 3 hearts, and boy what a pain to make your way back into the dungeon.  Kind of forces you to either a) play even harder with hopes of getting some heart drops or b) leave and visit the fairy fountain type deal.
- No bottles! and thus no cop-out fairies in a bottle.  Max medicine is 2 shots per level essentially.... instead of the near 8 given in later games.

[DAaaMan64]

I wouldn't mind seeing Zelda change

I has nickels, dimes, and quarters.

[KDR_11k]

I'm pretty sure Zelda has mercy invulnerability even in the first game though it might be very short. Generally in 2D an enemy can "attack" faster because it only has to touch you, in a 3d Zelda it has to perform an attack animation (which takes a lot of time with many enemies and I think most have a wait time between reaching you and starting an attack too) and since there's so much room you can dodge easily and often block the attack too. I don't think 2d Zelda combat could be transferred into 3d with the regular perspective though since it's already hard enough to deal with one or two ranged enemies that are where the camera doesn't see them, 8 wizzrobes simultaneously shooting at you from all directions would be impossible to dodge because the camera would only show 2-3 at a time.

[Stogi]

You know what (for me of course) was more fun than going through the dungeon? Having to find how to get to that dungeon. Like in OOT, how you had to get a red tunic before you could enter the mountain, or how you had to go back in time in order to even enter the Spirit Temple as an adult. **** like that was always more intriguing than the dungeons. (Though the boss fights are always the most fun).

[Ian Sane]

oh and having a real threat of death wouldn't be bad. not saying everything should be boss hard to fight, but it would be nice to actually be worried some of the times...

I think this would be a good change but they have to balance this well.  I don't want like Wind Waker where I'm breezing through the game without any fear of death and then I fight that Ganon caterpillar deal and get my ass whooped.  This is just something all games have to take into account.  It's okay if enemies get gradually harder but don't make it a huge jump and don't make the third boss the hardest in the game and the last boss the second easiest.  Plus the worst is when a routine enemy is as hard as a boss.  Metroid Prime tends to have the occasional regular enemy like this.

I guess I'm just worried Nintendo won't do this right.  They're very used to making easy games.

Do those of you suggesting being able to dive into the ocean in WW have ANY IDEA how impossible that would be?  Just think of how HUGE the ocean in that game is and how deep it would have to be.  It would be an insane amount of work to create a whole underwater world.  The reason they didn't have a water dungeon to dive into is because it would be BS to let you dive then but not anywhere else.  This is what Nintendo does right.  This is their thing.  They realize that diving in the ocean is not an option so the design the game so you never have to dive.  Just like how they have no jump button and then don't put complex platforming in the game.  This is intentional design.  It's tight design that only true game design masters do.  A lesser developer would have had diving "sometimes" and have it feel wrong when you can't dive anywhere else.  Nintendo totally did the right thing there.

On the subject of water remember swimming as Zora Link in MM?  That was awesome!  I loved leaping out of the water like a dolphin.  The transformations in MM were such a great idea.  It let us play four characters while only playing as Link.  That's something they should consider using again.  They don't have to use masks or Deku, Zore and Goron Link but some similar idea.

[Chozo Ghost]

oh and having a real threat of death wouldn't be bad. not saying everything should be boss hard to fight, but it would be nice to actually be worried some of the times...

It's okay if enemies get gradually harder but don't make it a huge jump and don't make the third boss the hardest in the game and the last boss the second easiest.

I have to disagree with you here, because I think its hilarious when the final boss in a game is piss easy. I forget the name of it, but I remember a game for the old NES where you fought Ninjas and stuff to rescue a girl and you would have to fight bosses at the end of each level and they would tend to get harder and harder, but the developers made the last one really easy kinda like a joke I guess.

I think its funny when they do that, and if you think about it it is very realistic in most cases. Usually the one pulling the strings is a weakling who is good at manipulating people or is rich enough to buy followers, but in combat he sucks. That's why Mafia bosses hire goons and henchmen to protect them and exert force, because usually these leaders are fat old men who can't fight worth a crap.

Or what about a boss which is a giant metal robot and after you beat it this little man pops out of the wreckage who had been controlling it all along, and then you have to finish him off as the next boss, lol.

[KDR_11k]

I call 'em Gradius bosses.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Nintendo should quit making Zelda a man and have her be the lustful elf princess like in more popular Japanese genres.

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo should quit making Zelda a man and have her be the lustful elf princess like in more popular Japanese genres.

I agree. The sad thing is, the Zelda series does feature a beautiful princess, but she is never a playable character. Instead, you play as young Legolas from LOTR.

[Nick DiMola]

Does Zelda need to change?

No

[King of Twitch]

YOU WANT HER TO WEAR THE SAME CLOTHES EVERY DAY? GROSS

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

She's the Sage of Stench.

[King of Twitch]

Her triforce power is Pungence