Topic: Guitar game console

[SixthAngel]

A company should come out with a console that only plays guitar music games. 

The console does not need to be powerful in the slightest and could probably fit almost entirely in the body of the guitar.  The console itself would be incredibly cheap.  It doesn't need hi-def graphics and barely having any 3d probably wouldn't even effect it.  The storage could be a simple SD card.  Have it come with a cheap one and let the bigger (also pretty cheap ones) be usable.  All current consoles (even the Wii) overshoot what is needed for a guitar game by incredible lengths.

They just need to make some agreements with the music companies and they can get all the songs they want by giving them a cut of every song sold, much like i-tunes.  They could both sell songs online and sell them very cheaply in the game stores or even music stores.  Even partnering with a music company to put the game songs on the actual album could work.

With this system the game company could release new game songs right when a new song comes out and is big.  They could release classic songs whenever they feel like it or whenever they get the rights.  The potential library could be limitless.

The current guitar games like Guitar Hero and Rock band would go out of business almost overnight with only their drum part keeping them on life support.
These games have so many negatives compared to the Guitar game console.

-Smaller potential audience.  The current games can only be sold to those who have already bought a videogame console or are willing to spend over $250 dollars to buy one for your product.

-Each game release is incredibly expensive.  The games cost $50 each at the least.  They also have yet another startup fee because the first game needs to come with a $20 controller if not more.

-Each game only has certain songs that a person will like.  The i-tunes style would allow people to only pay for songs that they like as well as buy more songs.

-The games songs are all dated because they need to wait for a whole $50 game with new graphics and other songs to be released.  New songs could potentially be released a year before the competition.

-The current games can only be sold with videogames.  The guitar console has the potential to sell it in more then just videogame places.  Music stores could sell your console and songs.

-Much smaller potential library.  It will take years and years and years for Guitar Hero to have a large library and by then a new console will be out that doesn't play the old games.

-Switching dvds or dealing with disks while everything can be right there in the Guitars memory/SD card.

-Songs can't be used for future consoles.  If a newer guitar console needs to come out with better technology all of the current songs can still be sold and used on the new version.  The company does not have to spend money to make them compatible to sell them to new customers.  The console would have the graphics and game engine while the songs would be just that, the songs.  They would have at most the song in mp3 form, the frets, and maybe maybe a texture to put somewhere that can let you tell songs apart on the screen when you play.

This seems like an absolute sure thing to me.  The current guitar games have overshot their audience by so much and they have an absolutely terrible method to deliver the only thing people want, new songs.  If I had any programming ability or was in the music industry I would be pushing this.

[Ian Sane]

Sounds like an okay idea in theory but dedicated videogame systems haven't been big since the Atari came out and replaced all the standalone Pong machines.  The ability to play an unlimited amount of games has always been a draw and that's why consoles have remained the TV videogame purchase of choice.

The iTunes idea is great and actually it sounds like Guitar Hero World Tour is introducing something like that.  But people might have the idea that "for a few more hundred dollars I can have my guitar game PLUS an Xbox 360 or a Wii.

Though to be fair it might just be that dedicated game systems bomb because they're of poor quality.  After all it isn't major companies like Nintendo and Sony making them.  It's some small time company who is probably trying to con people into buying junk more than making a competing product.  It's the Action 52 style developers that are doing it.  So maybe if done right this could work.

[Kairon]

This is actually how some Karaoke machines do it: an entire karaoke experience in a single mike, and chips you plug in for songs! It's a huge hit with karaoke freaks like my family.

Of course, Karaoke music is an already established market with expected pricing for songs and all that. And the mic itself costs $100 or a little more if I recall correctly with one or two chips included (but for karaoke, that's like 300 songs). I wonder if music companies are much stricter for Guitar Hero Licensing prices than they are for all those Karaoke song prices. I also believe that most songs would have to be covers to cut down on cost. Most consumers don't care cover or not, only the limited hardcore niche.

[SixthAngel]

I don't think the pong comparison works in the slightest.  Pong is a single game with no significant changes or updates.  You say that consoles bring you in to play an "unlimited amount of games" while this lets you play an "unlimited amount of music."  The karaoke comparison is a much better comparison.  Also don't assume that any system would be poor quality.  There are plenty of companies capable of making excellent quality systems.  I personally think that either apple (a dedicated hardware and software company plus itunes), a current music company, or a company like Harmonix would do the best job but there are more.

This is mainly about a change of business model.  Right now they are sold like video games while I want them to be sold like music and mp3 players.  Guitar hero is as much music as game and after the original game is made all that matters after is the future music.

It is basically I-pod model vs. the GTA/Mario model.  For anything related to selling music the I-pod model makes far more sense.

[Kairon]

Yeah, this idea is basically about taking Guitar Hero experiences out of the videogame business model, and into the karaoke business model.

I wonder though, shouldn't the "player" be separate? If there was still a small, cheap, stand-alone console unit, it could basically be a glorified CD player with some chips in it for the standardized graphics and doing the limited game logic. Then the guitars or other instruments could be seperate units, much easier to replace if they broke. AND the tracks could be printed on cheap CD... well... actually... no... you probably don't want them on CD due to piracy...

[vudu]

You mean like this?  (Awww ... ain't it cute?)

Apparently you're not familiar with the concept of downloadable content for Rock Band or Guitar Hero, because half of your above mentioned points are negated by the fact that both games have downloadable content (albeit, not on Wii).

[Kairon]

No, this entire topic started BECAUSE you have to own a console to begin with before buying guitar hero or rockband. Instrument Games are so universal that they may benefit from cutting out the multipurpose console altogether. You'd experience a loss in graphical quality and variety, but you may be able to lower the price of entry so substantially that you draw in even more consumers.

[LuigiHann]

I don't know. In their current state, these instrument games are still more of a video game than a musical instrument, and while non-gamers may enjoy them, it seems like most of the people who would pay money for a video game instrument are the sorts of people who already own game consoles.

[Kairon]

Could be true. Karaoke is much more accessible than air guitar because everyone knows how to use their voice.

[animecyberrat]

Could be true. Karaoke is much more accessible than air guitar because everyone knows how to use their voice.

Ha!, you want me to link to my horribly bad rap music on Garage Band, my crappy podcast on rats collectibles or my "gay ass" sounding youtube videos? Cuz I am living proof that someone can like suck on all levels of recorded media.

[Kairon]

I never said people knew how to use it well.

I come from a karaoke family. I have proof enough.

[NWR_insanolord]

I would bet that a significant majority of the people who would buy something like this already have one of the consoles that have Guitar Hero/Rock Band. Maybe not as much 360 and PS3, but the PS2 sold an insane amount and the Wii is selling 700,000 units a month. The latter two don't have DLC (yet, in the Wii's case) but I really don't think the casual market cares that much about that.

[animecyberrat]

So, they have Madden, Pac-Man, Mortal Kombat and countless other stand alone Plug n Play TV games. Something like this could work, if it is under $100 to start off with.

[NWR_insanolord]

Do those plug and play games sell well enough for it to make financial sense to produce DLC for that only a fraction of the audience will make any real use of?

[Ian Sane]

In their current state, these instrument games are still more of a video game than a musical instrument

Good point.  Karaoke is just an activity you do for fun.  Guitar Hero is specifically a game.  It has objectives and goals.  You win or lose.

While Karaoke does well by itself would Karaoke Revolution sell well on it's own?  It turns Karaoke into a game with winning and losing.  I think maybe people expect that sort of "you vs. the machine" stuff to be a videogame for videogame consoles.  There is a certain level of expectations.  People associate games with videogame systems and computers.  They associate a lot of software with computers.  For example a dedicated email machine would seem pointless to a lot of people because a computer does that so why not buy a computer?  Sure a dedicated email machine would probably cost LESS than a computer but the extra functions are such that people think the dedicated machine is limited despite the low price.

People might look at a dedicated guitar game, and even if it is cheaper, feel that a videogame console is a better value for them because of the flexibility of playing multiple games.

[LuigiHann]

Yeah. A plug-and-play TV game is expected to cost 20-30 dollars. Any more than that and people will frown upon it. And at 30 dollars, good luck with licensed songs and DLC.

[Kairon]

Woah, just checked Magic Mike prices. YOWZA. Sure the thing is an all-in-mic karaoke system with an expandable library and 2058 songs included right off the bat... but it costs anywhere from $180 to $360. Maybe... maybe I'm a hardcore karaoke fan?

[animecyberrat]

well they have those little mini MP3 player thingies also, it doesn't have to be DLC, they could make swappable mini discs or hell even put a SD card reader in it and let you pick and chose your songs. I don't know. They could find a way to do it if they wanted to.

[Mario]

My god

[EasyCure]

My god

Explain

[DAaaMan64]

My god

Explain

Explain your request for explanation

[SixthAngel]

Talking in the Malstrom thread I figured I would bring up the fact that the whole blue ocean/disruption strategy that he continues to talk about is what gave me this idea.  This is an overshot market that is selling on values that most people do not want.  I expected to get people to say it wouldn't work because being hardcore gamers means that a "plug and play" system isn't real and must be incredibly cheap, and they don't think things can succeed outside the typical console world.  Guess what, Nintendo made it a priority to make the Wii "plug and play" with things to do immediately!

With the new Guitar Hero embracing the idea of ****loads of instruments I see this idea succeeding more than ever.  The console games continue to chase the "hardcore gamer" leaving the others behind.  Even a simple free play mode where you can play the entire song no matter how much you suck would be a draw the people that have been passed up for more difficulty/better graphics/more instruments/higher price.