Topic: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)

[NWR_pap64]

While I haven't played the mode itself I've watched all of the cutscenes and read the storyline, so I have a good idea of what the storyline is about. And it might be telling us how Sakurai truly feels about Nintendo and Miyamoto in general.

Let's look at some of the facts and events that happen during the SSE storyline:
-What happens to Mario during the first scenes at the stadium? He gets blasted away.
-Who rescues one of the princesses in the same scene? Kirby
-What happens to DK? He gets turned into a trophy and doesn't see any action till the end of the game.
-Who pretty much becomes one of the leaders against the SSE army? Metaknight
-Which character smacks Luigi into oblivion? Dedede
-Who devices a plan so that in case Taboo turns everyone into trophies some can survive? Dedede
-Which characters are able to "survive" various SSE attacks? Sakurai's characters
-Who fights Bowser at the end of SSE? Dedede.
-What happens after the fight? Dedede smacks him in the face (even though it was a "snap out of it" gesture, the fact that a Sakurai character smacks a Miyamoto character might symbolize something...)

If you analyze, you come to realize that the majority of the Nintendo characters get shafted one way or another during the mode. The Mario characters are smacked around, turned into trophies or are pretty much taking a backseat to other characters.

Some are even treated surprisingly harsh! Like Pikachu for example. While much worse has happened to him in the anime, the SSE mode is perhaps one of the first times a character is being tortured in an official Nintendo game.

And don't forget Snake. While Sakurai did admit that Sonic was a very last minute addition how come his appearance in SSE was so damn short when Snake pretty much has a role in the story? True, he clips Taboo's wings off, but if his team was able to put in lots of Sonic related trophies, stickers and music why couldn't he shoehorn a scene in the story for Sonic? This would have been the PERFECT opportunity to have Sonic and Mario team up.

While some characters do "get along" in the story on some scenes (like Mario and Kirby at the beginning) the negative scenes leave a far more impression that the positive ones. And again, its hard to deny that Sakurai's characters have bigger roles in the story than some Nintendo and videogame staples.

Of course, like all theories this might be wrong and I'm just full of crap. But its been mentioned that Miyamoto was against the SSE mode, saying that SSB is solely a multiplayer title and that making it single people it might alienate the concept.

Sakurai's relationship with Nintendo seems a tad rocky, and I've read that Miyamoto is VERY demanding and serious about his work. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was a massive clash of egos, especially if Nintendo paid Sakurai to direct the game and gave him the freedom to do whatever he wanted, no matter what Miyamoto said.

Its common knowledge that creators of entertainment sometimes express their feelings through very subtle nods, comments and jokes. For example, filmmakers  might sometimes make a joke or a person or event (one example of this is Jerry Senfield's stab at Pixar's John Lasseter in a joke in "Bee Movie"), and might show their true colors.

This, however, might get the creator into trouble if not done right. So they are sometimes hidden within layers of subtlety or are so obscure the only ones that will get it are those in the know.

So, who knows? Maybe Sakurai was injecting some of his own bitterness in his own creation, but made sure to hide it well enough so that the subtext wouldn't be so easily picked up.

I know some of you will say "Oh you are looking deep into this!" or "Sakurai treated all the characters fairly!". But before you make a comment of the sort, think back.

Sakurai left Nintendo to form his own studio. He was pretty much a free man. But Nintendo drafted him into another SSB project. Even if he expresses eagerness towards it, remember. Nintendo announced a new SSB game at E3 05, and named him director, even though he was clueless about it.

How would YOU feel if you were minding your business when someone appears out of nowhere and asks you to do something you weren't ready to do? Even if you get paid by the millions, you would be a tad upset that they mentioned you were in charge of something when you weren't supposed to be doing it in the first place!

Hell, in the Iwata asks interviews Sakurai kept remarking that he wasn't a Nintendo employee anymore.

One other thing, he didn't direct the Kirby games after his departure from Nintendo, right? As you all know, some of them weren't as good as the ones he personally direct. So, wouldn't you be upset if a company took your creation and kept making games about it and they are of poor quality? Once again, Sakurai might be upset at this, but since Kirby belongs to Nintendo he might not be able to do anything about it, except curse about it at night.

So lets not deny that some messages might be hidden in the SSE mode, and they might be saying a lot about Sakurai as a developer and his relationship towards Nintendo.

[Smash_Brother]

I believe Sakurai realizes he is forever stuck in Miyamoto's shadow and resents it, yes.

[that Baby guy]

I've got to say, I agree.  I never really mentioned it, but I felt like it could be that way ever since we first saw Kirby be the hero, with Mario blasting away.  There should have been an SSE Sonic meets Mario, and Kirby characters shouldn't have factored in as much in the game as they did, since they were the majority characters to actually advance the plot.

Basically, few things happen in the story:  Characters meet, there are skirmishes, and the group(s) attempt to do something major against the SSE.  Any time something happens that's not a meet-up or a small skirmish, it usually features a prominent Kirby character.

You mentioned Kirby at the beginning, saving a character, but you forgot: Kirby's strike is the one that shoots down the cannon.  The one enemy ship is the Halberd, and capturing it could be considered a major subspace arc.  If you were to divide the story into three acts, the first act features Kirby as one of the leading roles, the second Meta-Knight, and the third Dedede, maintaining focus on Kirby the entire way through.

And, of course, you mentioned the whole ordeal with Mario characters being treated poorly.  Bowser is the SSE idiot, rarely succeeding against anyone, except DK in the beginning, where he was stealing bananas for no reason at all.  Peach, while receiving great character portrayal, is like an entirely different person between the Mario universe and this one.  Mario gets blown away at the beginning, and then is just another member of the huge, mostly generic anti-subspace army.  Luigi receives that stupid scaredy-cat treatment, but at least it fits his SSB appearances before now.  Donkey Kong, while rarely featured, receives a great portrayal, for what it's worth.  Wario works alright, but like you said, Dedede tops him early on.  Yoshi is just sleeping on a log and goes and fights.

Overall, the story was weak.  I think that perhaps Sakurai inflated the appearance of his own characters, but I don't know if he intentionally left the Mario characters in poor light, or if that was just an effect of "too many chiefs, not enough indians."  The SSE shouldn't have happened that way.  What makes it worse, for me, is that there's so much filler in it.  I can't see how it could have taken too long to create, aside from the bosses.  It was essentially a game where you ran around and fought the same enemies with different backgrounds.  I would have preferred to just watch cutscenes and play the boss fights over it, but overall, because Sakurai couldn't use everyone as true heroes, he just stuck his own characters in those positions.

[Shift Key]

So lets not deny that some messages might be hidden in the SSE mode, and they might be saying a lot about Sakurai as a developer and his relationship towards Nintendo.

EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR TINFOIL HATS

[Arbok]

I think it's clear that Sakurai gave Kirby, Metaknight and Dedede preferential treatment... but so? It's not to a horrible degree or anything. Furthermore, I don't think it was putting the Mario characters purposely "on the backseat". I do also think Sakurai has a penchant for enjoying to pick some that could be considered obscure. Like Pit has a huge role in the SSE, despite being a very minor character in Nintendo's history... but I have no problem with that, and enjoy the spotlight being shown on characters who are not considered "bread winners".

As for Bowser in particular, since he is mentioned so much, I don't see what the problem is. He takes down DK, captures one of the princesses, and unlike Wario he confronts the heroes numerous times and does not fall victim to them. Plus, he's working with Ganondorf, who should have felt like the greater and more potent force of evil between the two. Personally speaking, I cheered when he back stabbed Bowser in the end too, as it was so perfectly in character for someone who slaughtered their own followers in their quest for the Triforce.

So really, I don't have any problems with bias... my problem with the SSE, in terms of story, is what's not explained. In particular what happened to Metaknight's ship and how and why Dedede is using the badges and to what goal. Both of those needed to be explained, and the former would have been perfect to be represented by a flashback later on to divulge how it was stolen.

[DAaaMan64]

I agree with shift key. But great analysis Pap.

[Smash_Brother]

EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR TINFOIL HATS

The fact that Sakurai and Nintendo didn't part on the best of terms is common knowledge: Sakurai didn't want to make any more sequels and Nintendo wanted him to make more sequels.

When Miyamoto advised him not to focus too much on the SSE and focus more on the multiplayer, Sakurai basically blew him off. Then, there's the fact that Iwata kept reminding Sakurai that Iwata was his former boss in the interview and Sakurai didn't seem thrilled about being reminded.

I think Sakurai is in the position where he gets the job done so Nintendo had begrudgingly gone to him to make SSB games, I'm sure offering him a pile of cash in the process. I'd also guess, however, that if Nintendo had enough faith in another director, they'd switch to him/her in a heartbeat for the next SSB game.

It's no surprise to me that Sakurai made his characters the heroes of the SSE. He said he didn't care because it's his last SSB game and he meant it.

[Arbok]

Wow, what's up with all the Sakurai hate now?

It's no surprise to me that Sakurai made his characters the heroes of the SSE. He said he didn't care because it's his last SSB game and he meant it.

Really? Because he implied during his trip here to SF for the GDC that if another was made he would be up for being involved:

"IGN: What would be that one specific feature you wish you could have added?

Masahiro Sakurai: I feel like anything I've considered I'm probably going to think about when -- I mean if -- another game was to come out in the series and so I'd like to keep a lid on that for now. and not disclose anything I've been thinking about there. "

[in reference to another Smash game] "I'm really against the idea of merely creating a sequel that would add modes or increase the number of characters in the roster -- all the sort of things that just simply fatten up the game. I'd like to avoid just doing that if a sequel ever came out."

He certainly didn't imply he wouldn't be coming back.

[Luigi Dude]

Most people think this would be his last Smash Bros since when he first talked about the game back in 2006, he talked about how he was reluckdant to make Brawl in the first place and how Iwata had to convince him.  This was once again restated in the Ask Iwata interview when Sakuria said the same thing to Iwata.

But when you listen to Sakurai's comments at GDC, it sounded like he had a lot of fun making Brawl and would be up for a sequel in the future. 

Then, there's the fact that Iwata kept reminding Sakurai that Iwata was his former boss in the interview and Sakurai didn't seem thrilled about being reminded.

You do realize that Sakurai and Iwata where joking with each other.
http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/ssbb/vol1_page1.jsp


Sakurai - So this is for the "Iwata Asks" interviews, right?

Iwata - That’s right.

Sakurai - In other words, this is where you, the president of Nintendo, interview the developers working for Nintendo.

Iwata - Yes.

Sakurai - Is it okay for me to be here since I’m not a Nintendo employee?

Iwata - Of course, you’re my former employee, after all.

Sakurai - That’s right! (laughs) So it’s the "Iwata Asks His Former Employee Interview," then.


So in other words, Sakurai and Iwata still get along pretty well.  They wouldn't be laughing together if both men had a hatred toward each other.

[blackfootsteps]

Unless Darth Iwata edited in that "(laughs)" to fool the gaming populace.

[Dasmos]

I love pap's and S_B's overanalysis of almost every aspect of gaming. It is endlessly enthralling.

[Smash_Brother]

So in other words, Sakurai and Iwata still get along pretty well.  They wouldn't be laughing together if both men had a hatred toward each other.

You do realize that "laughs" could be something as simple as a "heh" noise, right?

And like I said, Miyamoto gave him advice and he was blown off. I'm as dedicated to my creative visions as anyone, but if Shigeru-f*cking-Miyamoto gives me advice, I'm damn well going to listen (and it's advice I feel he should've taken).

Sakurai was sick of sequels and it's not much of a stretch to suggest that he was sick of being in Miyamoto's shadow, either. Miyamoto is internationally revered while Sakurai's name is known mostly to angry SSB fans. All of his characters were the heroes whereas Miyamoto's didn't do a whole lot during the SSE.

I love pap's and S_B's overanalysis of almost every aspect of gaming. It is endlessly enthralling.

I love your tendency of making a quick quip at myself or Pap and then fleeing into the brush. It's so...rabbit-like.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

In Sakurai's defence, I believe the involvement of the characters in the SSE reflects on their personalities and behaviours that they have always had in their respective franchises.

(Beware: I'm about to go into deep analysis...)

Mario: For the most part, Mario is in the thick of the action, doing what he does best: rescuing the damsel in distress that is Princess Peach. Sure, he has a rough start, but his adventures often begin with difficulties. As I recall, early on in Super Mario Galaxy (a game made by Nintendo themselves), Mario is similarly blasted off the planet.

Peach: What can I say? Peach has alway been on the wrong end of the metaphorical gun, so her involvement is historically correct: she gets kidnapped and you gotta go save her. For it to be any other way would just be silly.

Luigi: He started off in Mario's shadow and chances are that it's going to stay like that. Luigi is the definition of the second player, which is why he fails to live up to the standards his brother (the first player). This remains true in Smash Bros.

Bowser: As an enemy, Bowser is more of a "stay back and watch" kind of guy. He tends to keep out of the action and let his minions do his evil bidding for him - this strategy is retained in his plan to lure DK and Diddy. And the incident near the end... well, Bowser is certainly more evil than Dedede, so it's understandable that he isn't so quick to switch sides.

Yoshi: This little dinosaur is a helper by nature. Even in the games that he was the main star of, Yoshi was more of an assistant (he has reunited the babies twice, even though they have nothing to do with him). Just like in Yoshi's Island, he tags along with the others during the SSE, helping out when required.

Wario: Not evil - just greedy. Wario is forever looking out for treasure, hence his enthusiasm to begin with. However, he is beaten by Dedede simply because he has little going on in the brains department.

Perhaps you lot should lay off the conspiracy theories.

[Mario]

It's no secret Sakurai is a giant Kirby fantard and a bit of a knob, but that moment where Kirby saves the day on his star was just pure comedy to me and not serious. It made me smile even though i'm not a big kirby fan.

[Smash_Brother]

I think Sakurai just wanted to prove that you can pick up chicks on a warp star.

[Adrock]

Is it really so surprising that someone gives his own characters preferential treatment? On top of that, Sakurai didn't have to accept the project. "I'll get you Miyamoto and Nintendo by working long hours and adding hidden messages in this game mode that only I think is a good idea."

Ultimately, the joke is on Sakurai since the Subspace Emissary sucked.

"I'm really against the idea of merely creating a sequel that would add modes or increase the number of characters in the roster -- all the sort of things that just simply fatten up the game. I'd like to avoid just doing that if a sequel ever came out."

See, I would agree with him, if he found some other way to make the game better.... but he didn't. There was so little refinement of the core gameplay. I've heard the argument, "What else could they have done?" Well, lots. Use your damn imagination. They definitely could've done better than the footstool jump......

[Smash_Brother]

Ultimately, the joke is on Sakurai since the Subspace Emissary sucked.

Well said.

And I also agree that Sakurai's whole spiel about not making sequels is curious, seeing as how the game hasn't changed terribly much.

[Mikintosh]

Oh. My. God. If we've fallen to the level where we're accusing people of adding the word *laugh* to a transcript for...no good reason, then this has officially gone too far. The pictures accompanying the interview showed them getting along, and if Sakurai had bad blood towards the guy why would he have agreed to the interview? He's not a Nintendo employee and he'd already finished the game he made for them. Geez...

And I didn't have a problem with the Kirby characters getting good facetime, because it was obvious they would. I didn't think the Mario franchise was being sidelined (nor the Zelda franchise which nobody is mentioning); he just wanted to show the different franchises equally, rather than have the company mascot monopolize the proceedings. I mean really, Lucas and the Star Fox characters both had about the same amount of time in SSE as the Kirby gang; these charges of favoritism-concealing-bitterness have no basis other than in your peoples' heads.

And SSE rocked.

[Arbok]

Sakurai was sick of sequels and it's not much of a stretch to suggest that he was sick of being in Miyamoto's shadow, either.

Care to elaborte on the connection here, or what implies that he is somehow angsty toward Miyamoto?

All of his characters were the heroes whereas Miyamoto's didn't do a whole lot during the SSE.

And if they did, people would likely complain that Mario was hogging the spotlight and was further overused... you can never please everyone.

Also, are we now arguing that the Star Fox characters weren't well represented in the game?

[blackfootsteps]

The pictures accompanying the interview showed them getting along, and if Sakurai had bad blood towards the guy why would he have agreed to the interview? He's not a Nintendo employee and he'd already finished the game he made for them. Geez...

Photoshop.

[Dasmos]

I love pap's and S_B's overanalysis of almost every aspect of gaming. It is endlessly enthralling.

I love your tendency of making a quick quip at myself or Pap and then fleeing into the brush. It's so...rabbit-like.

The reason I do that is that there is no point to these threads. it's obvious you have discussed this topic at length outside the forum before making this thread. You then make the thread not to discuss and debate whether or not you're right, you make them so you can convince others of your crazy notions. It's funny because people fall for it everytime, the thread ends up turning around and around in a circle with no progress past the first couple of posts.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

Sakurai was sick of sequels and it's not much of a stretch to suggest that he was sick of being in Miyamoto's shadow, either. Miyamoto is internationally revered while Sakurai's name is known mostly to angry SSB fans. All of his characters were the heroes whereas Miyamoto's didn't do a whole lot during the SSE.

Firstly, a lot of people have been in Shigeru Miyamoto's shadow. It's nothing to be ashamed of; he has arguably the greatest imagination this industry has ever seen. Rather than showing resentment, developers would be excited to work with such a creative inspiration. I cannot think of any good reasons for Mashiro Sakurai to be jealous on the scale that you appear to be implying.

Secondly, I disagree with your last statement - if you remember to include all of Miyamoto's creations who are involved (Mario franchise including Kongs and Yoshi, plus the Zelda franchise and the Star Fox franchise + the Ice Climbers and Captains Falcon & Olimar), I think you'll find that his heroes "did a whole lot" more than the Kirby characters.

[Adrock]

FAIL! Miyamoto didn't create Wario. Gunpei Yokoi, who produced the Mario Land games, is given credit for creating Wario with designs by Hiroji Kiyotake. Learn your factz n00b.

[Arbok]

FAIL! Miyamoto didn't create Wario. Gunpei Yokoi, who produced the Mario Land games, is given credit for creating Wario with designs by Hiroji Kiyotake. Learn your factz n00b.

And Wario was taken out early on in the SSE... *gasp* does this mean Sakurai was making a dig at Yokoi? Does Sakurai's villainy know no bounds!?

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

And Wario was taken out early on in the SSE... *gasp* does this mean Sakurai was making a dig at Yokoi? Does Sakurai's villainy know no bounds!?

I presume you're being sarcastic... again, I feel Pit and Samus (Yokoi's creations) got their fair share of the limelight. As for Mr Game & Watch, he had a minor appearance, but he's already awesome, so that's okay.

@ Adrock: Oh no, a mistake! Maybe I am human. Small error aside, the general point stands.
By the way, you spelt 'facts' wrong.