Topic: So what are your disappointments with Wind Waker

[zumpiez]

I wish the Ghost Ship wasn't just a submarine with Bubbles in it. I'd love to see a whole ghost ship dungeon in a Zelda game.

[Lao-tzu]

Well, gosh.  I just finished the game and I have a few complaints.


UG.

What went wrong??

Now, I'm not a 'it needed to look realistic like OoT did"  That's silly, given that OoT had characters with huge eyes, and heads cartoonly proportioned to their bodies.

So why does everyone think OoT was realistic?

Because it drew us in, and made itself part of our imagination.  It had story, story , setting, and story.  And characters.

Guess what?  Saria (or something) in OoT didn't look as realistic as your sister in WW, but you *cared* when she got captured.  It was because she was a character, and you care about characters.


WW lacked any setting.  Physically, yes, it had a setting, but really.. what was new?  What sparked your imagination?  Water?  You've seen it beofre, and this was not the impressive water you can see at many beaches.

(That being said, I live on the coast, so maybe other people haven't seen the ocean so much)

We have Fields, Castles, and mountains too.. So why did OoT Hyrule appear so great?

Because it wasn't "realistic" it was the best type of fantasy:  it gives us something un-real, and makes us believe in it.

Why wern't the waves huge, why wasn't there any white caps.  The WW ocean did nothing for me.




"But it was so big"

Big doesn't make a game good.  In fact, if you took 3 stages in an adventure, and put them in a small area, then it would seem small, but you'd have a lot to do.

WW was big, but didn't have many more stages then the smaller OoT.

And thus: sailing became a chore, because there wasn't intersting trees to roll into, or holls to find, or anything else.



Windfall island was the best of the game.  In a TINY area, they fit a ton of game play.  There's all sorts of neat things to do.

--

And the worst part (with spoilers) is this:
















Where was that twist ending I've been hearing about?  Where was the increadible boss fight I read in all the reviews.  Did I miss something?  It was the classic Zelda story, without introducing Zelda as a princess.  (They turned a good character, Tetra, into Zelda, and promplty forgot that she had a character.  THey ignored her mind once she changed clothes)

So maybe I missed something.  I was expecting (what turned out to be) the last fight, to be a "Ganon kicks my ass and I need to go see the sages" thing.

So I do it, and then they do a cut sceen that puts me on a roof and in the last fight of the game?


--


So yeah.  I LOVED OoT and MM was okay... But I'm not a Nintendo fan, I'm a quality fan.  I'd apreasiate no "lay off Zelda" "go get an x-box" or whatever, but I'd like some thoughts (even if they're different) about the points I just said.

[Hostile Creation]

*Spoilers, up to the end of the game*

I found nothing particularly spectacular about Hyrule, in that sense.  I thought the islands, while small, were very diverse and interesting.  Hyrule was just as good, but. . . so what?  While I agree that there should've been more big islands, it was still quite good, in my opinion.

You need serious help if your idea of fun is rolling into trees.
And there of plenty of holes on the islands, so that's not worth complaining about.  It's not like there were even that many in Hyrule, either.

Tetra did not change her personality.  Initially, right when she changed, she was confused, so she may have seemed meek.  On the roof, though, did you not notice her at all?  Her comments and sly winks that are so common with Tetra?  The fact that she helped you battle Ganondorf?  And afterward, back on the surface, she was just the same as always.

I thought the last fight was cool and fairly challenging.  I spent thirty minutes fighting him the first time because I didn't know to do the evasive attack, but even the second time was fun.  Plus the ending opens up brand new doors to  the world of Zelda.

The ocean bothered me initially, but then I just looked at myself and said, "What's your problem?"  I then got over my own idiocy and had a great time playing the game.  And travelling is a breeze (heh heh, get it?) with the warp song.

[Lao-tzu]

"Tetra did not change her personality. Initially, right when she changed, she was confused, so she may have seemed meek. On the roof, though, did you not notice her at all? Her comments and sly winks that are so common with Tetra? The fact that she helped you battle Ganondorf? And afterward, back on the surface, she was just the same as always."


Okay, I'll buy that she was confused or meek when she made the change, but that's an awful waste of a good character expanding moment.

But that obvious forshadowing line "You stay here where it's safe" to the bad ass pirate chick.. lead to nothing.

Also, yeah she helped in the last battle, but she did so just like Zelda did in OoT (A VERY different character)

Even in the mannor it wsa done.. She walked with a princessly air, and shooting an arrow.

The obvious thing to would be have her do something that shows off her pirate liniage.  Then we could all go "Ha!  I knew that would come in handy!"

[Hostile Creation]

Her overslept comment was very Tetra-esque.  The first Zelda, while important, did very little physically.  And probably the only reason Tetra went about like that is because she had a dress and stuff on.  When she went back to the surface she was the same as ever.  Besides, finding out you're a princess probably makes you act more inately princessly anyway.

[Lao-tzu]

The ending when she... had different clothes on?

Sorry, but that doesn't change her character.

[Hostile Creation]

I was saying that she never changed.  The only part that she didn't seem to have her normal, piratey tough spunk was when she just found out she was a princess (probably shocked her into submission) and when she told the king that he could come with them (I dunno, this is the only part I perceive as being unTetra.  Of course, it seems that all girls act like that sometimes.  It confuses me).  Otherwise, I don't really notice a difference.

Plus, she's not a complete bad-@ss in her pirate clothes, either.  Sure, she's tough and all, but not extremely so.  More clever than tough, in my opinion.  Besides, did you see, on Spectacle Island, the game dude's imitation of her. Funny.

[Lao-tzu]

I'm pretty sure I've never been there.

Which is an other thing about the game I was disapointed by.. the build up of the story.

I had 3 hearts over half, no extended magic metre, didn't have 2 places on my item screen done, hadn't done the camera quest, found out what that guy likes that's round and white.  (Or something), found Lerenzos girlfriend, found who writes letters, did anything with Tingles slaves (hahaha)..

Oh.  Or watered any plants.

...And this is only what I remember off the top of my head.


And why did I not complete all this?  Well, because I thought that I wasn't going to actually be able to beat Ganon.  I figured, duh, I'll try, there'll be a cut sceen.. and the second half of the game starts.

Gosh, lets look at the requiered elements to the game:

2 dungons for 2 stones.
1 stone given to you.

1 dungon to get down there.

2 dungons for a working sword

search and rescue for 16 things (map and pieces)

..And you're done?
..


Anyway.. I think I was just being optimistic, but yeah.



An other problem was the lack of characters.

When I say characters, by the way, I mean someone who changed during the span of the game.

In OoT, the guy who carries the wood was not a character, but his boss was.

In my opinion, that bird race relationship thing was a flop.. I just couldn't get into it..

And Maker changed.. but the other people of that race turned into little quest markers.

[Hostile Creation]

There were actually two more dungeons, but they were cut because the game was too long.  I sort of hope they put out something that includes those.

As for characters that change, it's unrealistic.  People just don't change unless something drastic happens (like becoming a sage or finding out you're a princess).  Mostly, nothing happened to affect most of the characters.  In OoT there was a span of seven years, which allows for much more opportunity to change or develop personalities.

[Lao-tzu]

I disagree.  People are changing all the time, and mostly for silly and small reasons.

It doesn't have to be deep and meaningful, like turning into a princess.. it can be quirky and fun, but also very truethful.

Majora's Mask had a town full of people and they all changed in 3 days, not 7 years.

(Of course, they did have some major stuff happening...)

But some of those quests involved totally trivial things.

Plus, big things were happening, why didn't they respond to those?

[Hostile Creation]

Either because they were confused or they accepted their fate.

That's called development, not change.  And the characters do develop.  There are quite a few characters that you learn more about, and some characters change, like the two father-daughter rich/poor people.  And changes for trivial reasons aren't really changes, just personality quirks.  Just because someone happens to say something once doesn't mean that can define their personality.

[OldMan Nintendo]

The final boss fight w/ Ganondorf wasn't as dramatic as I'd hoped.

I remember when I fought Ganon in OoT -- now THAT was a final boss battle!  It had everything: thunder and lightning in the background, Zelda screams when you get hit, the dark, moody environment, Ganon's sheer size, and the music.... oh, the music for that battle!!  When I did that fight for the first time I actually had a shot of fear go through my entire body, like I was going to lose something very close to me if I lost this battle.  Very few games can do that to me -- it is those few games that sell like hot cakes on a winter day.

The final fight in WW I found to be dissapointing: you fight Ganondorf with Zelda assisting you in defeating him, which takes half the workload away from you.  I was prepared to fight Ganon and looking forward to what it'd look like cel-shaded... but now that's only a figment of my imagination.

I hope that the next Zelda game has a much more dramatic final boss fight.

[Hostile Creation]

Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was cool that Zelda helped (besides, Tetra wouldn't scream.  She's not like that; if she were I'd have to agree with Lao-Tzu).  The final thing for OoT was dramatic, but I thought all the water pouring down was very awesome.  I think I've finally satisfied my urges to play it, too.  I've beaten him nine times. . . now I can finally take a break. . .

[Zach]

Sorry I read the first page and then replied to something that was on it, what a brain fart,  oh well