Topic: Why are people still whining that there aren't enough games?

[that Baby guy]

Easy:  Namco likes the Tales series to sell well in Japan, and it did that on the PS2.  Tales of Symphonia did not sell nearly as well on the Gamecube as it did on the PS2 in Japan, even with a long delay between the original and the port's release.

It's of worth to note that it wasn't until after Tales of Symphonia that we began to see Tales games released in North America frequently, or as frequently as a series can be released.  It's of further worth that most of the projects released were for the PS2, though there was one PSP release and a GBA release, as well, and since then, we haven't seen the series except for upcoming games, two of which are on Nintendo platforms.

When you consider the development lifetime of a product, along with the userbase of the other consoles last generation, both in North America and in Japan, it's clear that it just wasn't worth the resources to port/make a second tales game for the Gamecube:  In Japan, with the option between PS2 and GC, the PS2 won handily, and I believe in North America, sales of Tales games were about even for both platforms, though I haven't checked that.  Furthermore, it's likely that the games you're complaining about were in development for the PS2 by the time Namco gained a complete grasp of Symphonia sales, decreasing the likelihood of the project switching development to a different platform.

As far as why they didn't port an older game over:  Symphonia's sales took some time to accumulate.  The game was released in August of 2004, if memory serves correct, and sales were steady up until Christmas, I think.  I'd check, but I'd rather criticize you.  Essentially, Namco wouldn't have great sales numbers for the game until January 2005, which, of course would be another holiday season where Gamecube sales were much lower than their competition.  Essentially, to most developers, it seemed like everyone owned a PS2 by now, including owners of Gamecubes, and thus, they likely believed the PS2 to be the platform that could reach the most people, and that a GC port would take too much time and resources for too little return, considering most Tales fans would already have the game on the PS2.

[Adrock]

If it makes you feel better, pap64, I knew you were joking. That's why you put the ":p" there.

Also, I read that Tales of Symphonia was ported to PS2 because Japanese fans complained it was being released on Gamecube, not PS2. And Namco is releasing a sequel to Tales of Symphonia on the Wii. They wouldn't bother with a sequel on a Nintendo platform if they didn't recognize the sales of the original.

I guess someone might say Nintendo is still making a mistake by not including HD support, but I think actually the opposite is true and that Sony and MS are making the mistake by forcing HD down developer's throats. HD games cost a lot more to make, so they're more expensive and the profit margin is less. So this time around Nintendo is actually doing most things right (aside from the hard drive, and maybe friend codes).

Definitely friend codes, maybe on the hard drive. I don't think not supporting HD was a mistake. The Wii could stand to have more powerful hardware, but it's getting by just fine without it. Sales wise, anyway. Maybe 3rd parties would be more receptive to releasing more Wii games if they could downport their titles. Lazy, but at least there would be more games.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

[modern analyst] Tales of Symphonia GCN had the best attach rate of all Tales games.

[Luigi Dude]

Its what we like to call "a joke", something you missed during your temper tantrum.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I bet he plays Smash Bros.

[that Baby guy]

[modern analyst] Tales of Symphonia GCN had the best attach rate of all Tales games.

Nice.  That's clearly the best observation you've made all day.

[Plugabugz]

I'm going to whine because NOE is useless. Is that acceptable?

It's always acceptable to whine about a company in the market.  Thats the point.  Don't let those who whine about the whiners get your goat.

Yeah, but is the title of the thread "Nintendo of Europe sucks" or "Nintendo's online strategy needs to change"?

I thought so.

I can only complain with gusto the things that affect me. The supposed lack of games, don't. What does is NOE being already sold out of Wii Fit before it even gets here.

[NWR_pap64]

Its what we like to call "a joke", something you missed during your temper tantrum.

Somehow, I knew someone was going to use the "Internet serious business" joke...

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

He bans all blue shells and items in Wii Bowling.

[Kairon]

God I disappear for a couple of days and this thread goes INSANE. I gotta read through it and probably make a ton of responses to quotes now... ay-yay-yay!

[KDR_11k]

Great, I'm gone for two days and a thread starts and gets derailed.

Anyway, I agree that the Wii has too few games.

First off, yes, the shelves contain a lot of games. The first problem is that most are shoddy (same for every system of course). Nintendo does release a lot of games but these are just a trickle and they are scattered over ther whole range of possible games, if one genre isn't your thing that means a nice gap in the releases. If you narrow your choice to the genres you like the catalogue is pretty much halved (this is normal but must be considered, noone likes every genre).

The number of good third party games is tiny. A large part of the good ones are just ports. Others are weak but get promoted through the small pond syndrome, titles like Sonic, Elebits and Kororinpa are B-list games yet people here herald them as great games.

Once I filter the library for good games that I haven't played before and are in a genre I like the list shrinks way too much.

Hell, I know everyone talked how awesome the Wiimote would be for FPSes but there's only one good FPS out for the system (Metroid Prime 3), the rest is just haphazardly implemented near-launch stuff that gets really bad review averages (Red Steel, CoD3 and Medal of Honor: Vanguard are the only FPSes except MP3 I've seen).

My mother wanted a racing game but there's not a single decent racer that's not arcadey.

RPGs? Is there even ONE RPG on the system? I haven't heard of any. (Opoona hasn't even been announced for a local release BTW)

Another point is sticker shock, Zack & Wiki may be a great game but I can't bring myself to pay 50 Euros on it and 60 for NMH is just right out. The Wii simply has NO bargain bin games. Well, okay, it has crappy movie tie-ins in the bins but no good games fall in price. This really fails their non-gamer strategy, non-gamers aren't willing to spend much money and a line of cheap games that don't leave you feeling ripped off is imperative in generating mainstream appeal. For the PS2 I can get a HUGE list of 20 Euro games including many old million sellers. Nintendo alone is the majority of the good game library of the Wii and they don't want to drop prices, making people who don't have much money buy shitty games and getting the impression that the Wii is full of crap.

[Adrock]

Hell, I know everyone talked how awesome the Wiimote would be for FPSes but there's only one good FPS out for the system (Metroid Prime 3)...

First Person Adventure, you f-ing n00b.

The Wii simply has NO bargain bin games.

Well, to be fair, the Wii has been out all of, what, 18 months? Can we really expect many "Player's Choice" titles yet? Also, Wii has a lot of games that were released for under $50. RE4 was $30, House of the Dead 2 and 3 was $30 (but Sega discounted some of their games so I got it for $20), Okami was $40 and so on.

[KDR_11k]

Hell, I know everyone talked how awesome the Wiimote would be for FPSes but there's only one good FPS out for the system (Metroid Prime 3)...

First Person Adventure, you f-ing n00b.

Prime 1 and 2, sure. Prime 3? Naah.

A lot of the below 50$ games are 50 Euros or over here. RE4 wasn't as much but 40 Euros is still outrageous.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well Europe sucks when it comes to Nintendo getting new games out there. But MP3 being a FPS and not a FPA? ROFL.

[animecyberrat]

not that stupid fanboy[/s] argument again.

[IceCold]

Recognition fail. Adrock is right. Luigi Dude is just biting all of my super awesome points.

Pshh, most of us have beein saying the same thing for years

[KDR_11k]

Well Europe sucks when it comes to Nintendo getting new games out there. But MP3 being a FPS and not a FPA? ROFL.

MP3 is much more linear than previous Metroids and much more story heavy (as in, "do this-or-that before the next map area is unlocked" instead of "get item X so you can get past obstacle Y"). There's little exploration and not much interesting stuff to find (only some capacity upgrades, everything else is mandatory). It's like the Prime version of Metroid Fusion.

[LuigiHann]

Myst is a first-person adventure. Any Metroid game would be an action-adventure, if that. 

[Ian Sane]

guess someone might say Nintendo is still making a mistake by not including HD support, but I think actually the opposite is true and that Sony and MS are making the mistake by forcing HD down developer's throats.

I think everyone is doing it wrong.  Forced HD is just as restrictive and stupid as no HD at all.  It should be an option and developers should then make the call themselves about whether or not their game should support it.

It is the gimped hardware that is more the problem.  By being too different the decision for a third party is either "X360 and PS3" or "just Wii".  The Wii is a great option if using the remote makes sense but for a game that uses a "normal" controller the other consoles are more ideal.  Make a "traditional" game on the Wii and there is a hardware limit that the other consoles don't have.  The Wii isn't better or even equal, it's just different.

Plus I think the kids console crap is still very much alive.  Sh!t like friend codes doesn't help.  Neither does promoting grandmothers playing your console.  Neither does the lack of HD or the "weaker" hardware.  Kid focused products are often dumbed down and the Wii is very blatantly dumbed down.  I remember when the N64 had cartridges, many people I knew assumed Nintendo did that because they're easier for kids to understand.  Once the idea is in their head people are going to look at any irregular decision and come to the conclusion they want from it.  You dumb stuff down and then promote the whole family playing and you're just damning the console to be full of third party kid focused crap.  But then how else would they get the non-gamer market?  I'll admit I can't think of a solution to that.

Nintendo is the kid that gets made fun of a school and shows up the next day wearing a pink shirt and suspenders.  It's the bully target that you feel sorry for, but still seems to bring it on themselves.  They shouldn't pick on you, but do you have to be such a weenie little dork?  Third parties shouldn't jerk Nintendo around but Nintendo shouldn't give them so many excuses to.  I'd like to see Nintendo design a console without any blatantly obvious cons or tradeofs or lame excuses that might make a developer question support.  They've been shooting themselves in the foot for three consoles now and, surprise, they've had sh!tty third party support all throughout.  Despite regaining the top spot with the Wii, Nintendo has still never given themselves a fair playing field.  If they ever do I imagine things will improve dramatically, regardless of what market share they have going in.

[Kairon]

[q]Despite regaining the top spot with the Wii, Nintendo has still never given themselves a fair playing field.[/q]

I agree completely. Nintendo has always played the game by their own rules. I applaud them for it.

[GoldenPhoenix]

All I have to say is play Doom 3 and then say MP3 is still just a FPS. But that is getting off topic.

[Ian Sane]

I agree completely. Nintendo has always played the game by their own rules. I applaud them for it.

In most games if you play by your own rules you get disqualified.  That happened to Nintendo two generations in a row.

I admire individuality but don't admire anti-social behaviour.  Everything works best in moderation.  A person that is an individual in everything has no companions but a person that follows the crowd in everything makes no real personal connections with anybody.  You have to mix it up.  I admire when Nintendo goes against the "rules" and makes something like Metroid Prime.  I don't admire when they ignore industry conventions just because.  When they don't release demo discs through any conventional means or do online in some screwed up sh!tty Nintendo way it's irritating as hell.

Steal your competition's good ideas, avoid their mistakes, learn from your own mistakes, improve on their ideas if you can, introduce your own ideas to compliment them.  To always do things differently is just stubborn pride.  Nintendo's ability to think outside of the box is admirable but they seem to think that any idea they didn't come up with isn't a good idea.  That's just f*cking dumb.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Yeah Nintendo needs to learn to listen to other companies, it has hurt them terribly with the Wii. Stupid Nintendo.

[ShyGuy]

I'm a dark mysterious loner. Just like Nintendo.

[Arbok]

Make a "traditional" game on the Wii and there is a hardware limit that the other consoles don't have.  The Wii isn't better or even equal, it's just different.

Well... I guess there is two ways to look at this. If Nintendo had beefed up the hardware specs, it's true that they wouldn't have alienated their console this generation and probably would be getting a lot more games that would now be "Wii, 360, PS3" titles, instead of just showing up on the latter two.

The question, though, is if this would be in the best interest in the long run? Would an inflated price of the Wii above $300 have affected their sales rate? Probably, at the very least it would have slowed down the word of mouth factor since less people would be willing to give it a try and there would have been less of a rush. So just with that alone the result is probably that the 360 would still be in the lead today.

Okay, so what if Nintendo decided to just take a loss instead on the system? Better for the consumer, but from an economic standpoint I really doubt they would be making up that lost income with the additional third party software they would get that was also appearing on the other two systems.

Finally, one must also consider their current strategy. The weaker console and lack of HD really benefits smaller developers as budgets are reasonable. This was part of Nintendo's aim. It allows for more risky titles that don't have to be guaranteed 1/2 million sellers just to stay out of the red. Is this environment ideal for the big third party publishers who can throw millions at projects and would likely benefit from no competition from smaller dev houses? That's negative, and this might explain why they have been reluctant to support the Wii.

So I guess it's a mixed answer in the end, depending on both how you want to look at it and what aspects of the market you desire on the console.