Author Topic: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers  (Read 6035 times)

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Offline MaryJane

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Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« on: February 20, 2008, 07:27:18 PM »
Reggie gave an interview to IGN http://wii.ign.com/articles/853/853258p1.html discussing WiiFit, and here's one of many interesting quotes from the interview:

Quote
You know, for the launch of Wii we executed a number of non-traditional programs and that thrust will continue with Wii Fit. You can expect to see it on morning national programs. You can expect to see it on female-oriented programs. There will be a broad Internet program leveraging Cammie's [Dunaway, NOA's executive vice president of sales and marketing] knowledge of that space. And there will also be traditional prime time TV advertising. It will likely be our largest launch of the year from a total dollar spend standpoint.

Barely any advertising for MP:3, compared to a lot of advertising for SMB, and still WiiFit will have the largest marketing campaign of them all. One way to look at this would be to say Nintendo is obviously taking the casual gamer more seriously than the core gamer, and as I started making this topic that's what I was thinking, and it likely is true. However,  putting a little more thought into it, there are three things that make the WiiFit almost demand to be advertised more than even SMB or Mario Kart.

1. Word of mouth - how many casual Wii gamers do you suppose are even aware this game exists? Compare that to the fact all core gamers (even non-Nintendo fans) know of SMB and Mario Kart (if even just because they know of the previous titles and the fact that these games will have sequels until the end of time). Core gamers really only need to be told when a game is released and a few impressive trailers for them to be interested in a game. Everything they will likely explore for themselves, or ask one of their gamer friends for more information. Nintendo also likes to throw a bone with a few competitions here and there further expanding upon these games appeals to core gamers. WiiFit cannot depend on word of mouth being spread without a massive marketing campaign. Casual gamers would likely be completely satisfied simply playing WiiSports off and on, and Nintendo needs to entice them to make their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd game purchase.

2. It's expensive - Reggie also says in the interview that the WiiFit game and balance board will release for under $100, IGN says a direct currency translation put the Japanese version at about $83, so let's say Nintendo launches for $85, or $90 to be greedy. That's asking a lot of a core gamer! Nintendo needs to show each and every person individually why they have to spend close (enough) to half of what they paid for the system. I already know why, and I think it's worth it completely worth it. Actually it wasn't until reading this article and Reggie confirming that (10) other games are being developed to work with the board (how about a recreation of that TMNT game where you were surfboarding(? this was a long time ago pardon my short memory) in the sewers and could swing at enemies as you went!!) that I knew it would be worth it. A casual gamer however is unlikely to read a two page interview with the president of a video game company. Thus Nintendo must prove themselves in this department, whereas we all know that SMB and Mario Kart are going to be extremely high quality games worth every penny (I hope they don't charge $60 for SMB but if they did I'd still buy it, and you know you would too).

3. Audience - I cannot forsee any circumstance where my mom, dad, or other older relatives would ever even think of wanting to play SMB or MP:3 with me and my siblings. Mario Kart, possibly but once they started getting bombarded by shells, and other objects their opinion of the game may change sharply (for better or worse depending on the individual). In contrast to that a hardcore gamer who would never in his life think of playing WiiFit, may pick up the balance board to play game where you play as a hoverboard riding, light saber, wielding jedi!!! And other core gamers like myself are going to pick this thing up earlier to play that soccer headbutting game (it's just too bad the game isn't Wi-Fi enabled that would be hawt). The WiiFit (and the stand alone balance board which will likely never see it's own release the game WiiFit was probably a bargain to make so why decouple it from the board when that would mean an obligatory price drop) appeal to a wider market ("Blue Ocean" if you will and I have to say looking at WiiSPorts sales (in Japan), and WiiPlay (free controller Round 2!! though it'll be more of an issue once that Jedi Hoverboard game comes out SPOILER: THAT GAME IS JUST WISHFUL THINKING :P . Thus, with the pricetage and wide audience Nintendo stands to make a lot more money off of this than other game (yes even SMB) thus justifying it having the largest budget for advertising yet. Oh, and Nintendo still isn't going to have enough at launch, especially considering it's launch is so soon after Mother's Day (should have been pre-Mother's Day to really cash in).


All in all, core gamers are taking a back seat to the casual gamer, however we are still being taking along for the ride, and with all the money Nintendo is making, plus the high level of quality in their games, Nintendo is driving a Maybach, and let me tell you, sitting in the backseat of a Maybach is akin to sitting in a private jet (two things I've been able to do once each so far, though the jet didn't leave the tarmac lol) you get that same feeling of having "made it". And I get that feeling every time I see a company who practically abandoned Nintendo after the 64 and GC making exclusive original IP's for the Wii.
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2008, 07:52:25 PM »
Well, Nintendo is in an interesting, unfair position.  We're seeing a lot of the industry pointing fingers, saying things about  how the Wii is underpowered, that games don't sell well, that games that aren't Nintendo's don't sell well, that it's only for casual players, and more.  As time moves on, and more games are released, we're seeing this isn't true, but the industry claims it, either way.

Your issue about Nintendo reducing it's courtship of the core game is something to thing about.  Do we need to be courted?  I know of and own most of the first part Nintendo games, including those for everyone and those for traditional gamers, and I likely would regardless of advertising or marketing for these games.  Take Battalion Wars 2, for example.  As far as I can tell, most traditional Nintendo gamers looked into this game, and Nintendo's marketing was about as poor as possible for a Nintendo game.  I believe, though I'm not certain, that is sold only decently, because Nintendo didn't attempt to market the game to anyone besides the traditional audience.

Now then, Nintendo has approached their games made for all gamers in a different way.  They address the issue that most of these people don't follow Nintendo daily, weekly, or even monthly by giving this type of game a TV spot or a bigger push.  These games likely don't cost as much to make as games for the traditional gamer, but they balance it out by taking care of advertising.

Here's the tough part:  Nintendo isn't courting traditional gamers that aren't their traditional gamers.  There's no effort to even catch the eye of that Xbox fan, and no call for the guy with the PS3.  I sometimes wonder if Nintendo believes that these people are already included in their traditional gamers--make no mistake, they are not.  Some traditional gamers do see Mario as a child's game.  They look at Metroid Prime, and rather than see a First Person Adventure, they see a Bioshock knock off.  There's several people in these categories that would love Nintendo's traditional games, if they were to approach them with the open mind we do.

I'm beginning to feel that Nintendo's apathy for this type of gamer is leading to the same in some of the major third parties, too.  That we're not seeing major sequels or creative ideas for this reason.  We're only seeing PS2 ports, rather than unique content because these publishers and developers are afraid.  And I can't blame them for all of this.  Despite Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition's successes, Devil May Cry 4 has already done better.  Sure, it cost more, but since it sold more, isn't it worth the cost?

Regardless, Nintendo's traditional gamers have to be happy--we're getting much more support this time around than last gen.  We're not in the back seat, I know that, we're just not always the driver.  I think the most important thing is to find a way to express our voice to Nintendo and third parties.  We need more links between the gaming groups and Nintendo.  We need to show them what we want, what we need, and what we fear, because I'm not sure if they know.  I'm not worried that Nintendo has forgotten us, we've got several great games on the way with us in the focus.  However, I'm worried about how they're going to relate to us to keep us in the third parties' focus, too.  I want everyone to be able to drive their own cars.  I want everyone to be in the front seat, and as it stands now, things aren't that way.

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2008, 08:06:02 PM »
Yeah, Wii Fit is going to be a much harder sell than Brawl or Mario Kart Wii. Nintendo pretty much saved A LOT of money on advertising Brawl. Thanks to internet hype the game is sure to sell a million copies in 2 hours. Same deal with MK Wii although with lesser numbers.

Wii Fit, on the other hand, is a new concept aimed at all audiences. Not only that, it comes with a pricey peripheral that is vital to the enjoyment of the game. Not everyone will want to pay for a pricey game, especially casual gamers. On top of that, the game already has a bad rep in the US among gamers. So releasing Wii Fit in the US will be much harder than it was in Japan, hence the bigger marketing push.
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Offline Strell

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 08:10:28 PM »
Hey alright.  I never thought about this before, OR saw it posted on the internet.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 08:12:24 PM »
Yeah seriously.  Not this again.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2008, 08:17:07 PM »
So if Reggie says they are spending a the most money on Wii Fit, I'm guessing we're not getting big advertising for Q4 Animal Crossing or Distaster Day of Crisis?

Offline Deguello

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2008, 08:39:19 PM »
"Despite Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition's successes, Devil May Cry 4 has already done better.  Sure, it cost more, but since it sold more, isn't it worth the cost?"

This is somewhat misleading, thatguy.  If you wanna compare RE4 to DMC4, you'll have to include the PS2, GC and PC versions as well.  DMC4 has shipped two million for the PS3, 360, and PC platforms.  Furthermore, we don't know by how much more it cost than DMC3.  I'd imagine it to be very significantly higher, considering the high cost of HD next gen times 2 very unique platforms. (PS3 and 360)  You can sell a lot of titles and still have money problems, see Take 2 somehow having financial troubles after having the most popular series last gen.  Unless the make more money than they spend, and they have made more money than they've made before, then they really haven't been that successful.

EDIT: Of course, considering how much MS is willing to pay for online content for games, I'd imagine Capcom has a healthy profit whether the game did well or not.  This apparently is the new revenue stream for the industry.  Console Manufacturer Sugar Daddies.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 08:44:00 PM by Deguello »
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2008, 08:44:25 PM »
I agree, that is misleading.  However, if you were to go to sites with influence, I imagine that several of them will portray things that way.  A lot of Developers and Publishers look at what matters backwards.  You cite Take 2's money issues.  With some of the best selling games, you wouldn't expect that to be a problem.  Looking further, their games probably weren't very high-budget, either.  Most of Take 2's problems were related to developer and publisher's ignorance, poor foresight, and a lack of control over their own content.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again:  Publishers aren't the brightest out there, and Developers that are intelligent in the areas of marketing and sales don't command great control of their own properties.

Offline MaryJane

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2008, 08:45:43 PM »
Yes, this isn't a totally new problem facing Nintendo or it's core gamers, however the light under which Nintendo views things got a little brighter with this article and especially the quote I copied.

Nintendo is willing to be reliant upon casual game sales, despite the push for SMB (which IMO is one of those games to attract 360 and PS3 owners to the system) WiiFit is going to get the biggest marketing push. Necessary? Perhaps, but it still leaves me wondering where I fit into Nintendo's plans, and I see that as the backseat, albeit the backseat of a very nice car.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2008, 08:53:42 PM »
"However, if you were to go to sites with influence, I imagine that several of them will portray things that way."

They're welcome to attempt such.  They already tried to spin DS's Japanese launch, DS's American launch, DS's success in the face of the PSP-That-Was-Sure-To-Kill-It, The Wii's name, the Wii's launch, the Wii's continual sellout, the Wii's shovelware-lineup-that-is-now-somehow-a-problem-when-it-wasn't-a-problem-for-PS2, and Casual Non-card-tonglime-hore gamers, so yeah I'm sure they'll spin it that way.  But I disagree with "influence."  Other than a few website chuckles here and there, have they accomplished anything they've tried to do against the DS and Wii?
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2008, 09:00:58 PM »
Good observation.  I suppose I'm perpetually worried as a Nintendo fan.  Though I don't care about the particular game, I keep thinking of Bionic Commando, a game with a concept relatively perfect for the Wii, not headed there.  I'm thinking of Resident Evil 5, Soul Calibur 4, Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy XIII, and others.

I guess I feel like there should be more pressure on these developers to release some of the traditional titles they have on the Wii, and not just shaft the project to a poor, lower-tier developer.  I'm remembering the quality of Guitar Hero III's Wii port to the other versions, the lack of Rock Band on the Wii, Beautiful Katamari taking about half a year to make it to the Wii.

I suppose, though, that I should be noting that with the GameCube's path, we'd never see these games at all.

Like I said, it really is the traditional Nintendo fan in me worrying.

Offline MaryJane

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2008, 09:09:37 PM »
[q]Non-card-tonglime-hore gamers[/q]

I hope that was intentional... lol

It's Nintendo's fault for that we aren't seeing the games Thatguy mentioned on the Wii, the system is underpowered and third parties are still yet to see their games do as well as Nintendo games giving them the incentive to dumb down these graphically superior games for the Wii.
Silly monkeys; give them thumbs they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive so misguided is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an a eye to heaven conscious of his fleeting time here.

Offline Deguello

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2008, 09:13:12 PM »
Well keep this in mind...  These big huge third party games sure are taking their sweet time coming out this gen, aren't they?  Coming out in the later end allows enormous possibilities for Wii2 up ports, Like RE4.  Because I fail to see what will stop Nintendo from developing a "souped up 360" or 4 360's duct-taped together in two years and releasing it.  Then the onus will be on MS and Sony to keep the 360 and the PS3 (unless it sticks to its ten-year strategy) to somehow stay relevant when the Wii 2 offers Uber HD at affordable prices and motion sensing.  They'll have to spend THAT MUCH more money.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 09:16:55 PM by Deguello »
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2008, 09:15:46 PM »
The underpowered system wasn't a problem last generation.  It's not really an issue for companies that want to make a profit.  Besides, it's not even certain we won't see some of those games.  The developers just need to see the value of it.

Deg, I don't think Nintendo is interested in that.  They want the Wii to last as long as it can, like Sony and the PS2, or way back with Nintendo and the NES.  They make good money licensing and the games themselves are pretty cheap in comparison to what else could be out there.  It's in Nintendo's best interest to maintain the Wii for the marketshare it has.

Offline Deguello

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2008, 09:18:41 PM »
Maybe, but every 5 years it all starts over again anyway.  4 years if you wanna count MS's shortening of it in search of not losing millions.

In fact, the only console I see sticking around for a really long time is the DS.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2008, 10:38:02 PM »
YouTube and social net[not]working sites are the real media sites today.  They are the electronic extensions of "word of mouth" among casuals and people who don't do work at work.

I'm shocked I have 7000+ more poasts than Deguello.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2008, 11:34:11 PM »
Quality not quantity. :D
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2008, 12:19:55 AM »
You!
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2008, 05:07:09 AM »
I don't believe the PS2 - GC/XBox power ratio was as great as the Wii - PS3/360 ratio is.
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Offline Galford

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2008, 05:39:20 AM »
Nintendo is beating the odds and winning.

Everyone said their course of action would result in failure yet now that are counting moneyhats.
Don't expect much to change.
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2008, 08:57:34 PM »
Nintendo is willing to be reliant upon casual game sales, despite the push for SMB (which IMO is one of those games to attract 360 and PS3 owners to the system)
You keep mentioning this "SMB" game.  Are you referring to Super Mario Brothers or Super Monkey Ball?  Certainly you are not referring to Super Smash Brothers Brawl because that acronym is SSBB. :)

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2008, 09:50:53 PM »
I was guessing he meant SMG.

Offline MaryJane

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2008, 10:25:09 PM »
lol sorry yes i meant SSB don't know what i was thinking  8)
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Offline Smash_Brother

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Re: Welcome To The Backseat Core Gamers
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2008, 10:28:46 PM »
I think the problem is that these situations are always a game of "Monkey see, monkey do".

Given that this is the case, you're seldom going to see a developer try something new and exciting if they fear a lack of profit as a result. This also means that they follow Nintendo's push, and Nintendo's current push is into casual markets.

I personally see this as leaving a gap in the lineup for gamer games which could easily be filled by enterprising 3rd parties.
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