Topic: Indiana Jones 4: KOCS (lol) first trailer

[NWR_insanolord]

As I said, I've never seen an Indiana Jones movie, that is until now. I just finished Raiders of the Lost Ark, and it was one of the best movies I've ever seen. So many great parts, and now I get a lot of jokes on The Simpsons and various other shows. If this new one is even half as good as that it's easily worth the price of admission.

[NWR_pap64]

I doubt that, the prequels being Star Wars movies didn't stop people from emptying their bladders all over them.

You stole the words right out of my mouth. Back when the first Star Wars prequel was released people went crazy and criticized the film to hell and back, although I do remember a lot of hype before the movie was released, and after the release some people loved the movie and couldn't stop praising it.

I guess we have to wait a couple of years and see how Indy 4 fares with the audience then.

[Smash_Brother]

I think what irked me the most was that the chemistry between Ford and LaBeouf was excellent, but it only served to further contrast the shoddy and overall weak acting from Blanchett, and the sad truth is that, when a villain isn't convincing, the hero loses credibility because the hero is only ever as impressive as the villain he/she defeats.

It seems like they tried as hard as possible to replicate the script of Last Crusade, with Indiana being used as a tool to track down some ancient power, but with the villains being as weak as they were (and the weak as hell ending) it just doesn't get the job done the way Crusade did.

[Arbok]

...but it only served to further contrast the shoddy and overall weak acting from Blanchett, and the sad truth is that, when a villain isn't convincing, the hero loses credibility because the hero is only ever as impressive as the villain he/she defeats.

Weak acting? What was poor about her performance? I thought she was excellent. Was she as ruthless as the past villains Indy has gone up against? No, although some of her contemporaries were such as during the opening raid, and nor do I think that was the intent. She needed Indy and she knew it and only really attempted to kill him when pushed fairly hard to do so, such as when he first runs away in the warehouse or during the cliff scene.

Regardless, I don't see how that's weak acting if she was written that way, and she certainly seems different from past villains in that she was actively watching Indy at work with great interest. She was equally as intrigued by how he would get from "point A to B" as she was with the end result, which made her stand out amongst his rogue gallery. It was quite clear she had some admiration for him, even if they were on opposite sides.

[IceCold]

I agree with S_B that the suspension of disbelief required was just too much.

[Smash_Brother]

I didn't find her believable. She came across as an actress who realized she was playing a cliché character, not the cliché character itself.

But I agree with the 2nd part in that her role was written oddly at the same time. At times, she did seem to admire Indy which just made the ending all that much worse, IMHO, with the alien being reduced to a generic movie monster when it basically killed her with knowledge (I guess). I wouldn't have objected to the ending if the alien had simply shown her the error of her ways and then teleported her outside of the ship or something. I was never really hating her as a villain so I didn't think her death was necessary.

Also, I find it incredibly ironic that the same director who 20 years ago made us believe in the power of friendship between a boy and an alien (ET) is the same director who turned highly advanced and benevolent aliens (they were teaching the humans farming, irrigation, etc. after all) into a generic movie monster when the entire movie was building toward something much more, it seemed. I kept expecting that the alien would somehow acknowledge Indy, but that never panned out (like how the knight did at the end of Last Crusade when he came out to wave goodbye to Indy and his father, easily one of the best scenes in the movie).

We knew so little about the aliens to start with, except that they were "good" so when they wind up frying the villain who doesn't seem evil but in need of a change in perspective, I wasn't exactly in approval of their actions.

Honestly, if they had written Blanchett's character so she truly believed in her cause to protect her country from the US (thus turning her more sympathetic) and in the end she winds up learning the error in her ways by the alien's teaching, I would've been infinitely happier with the movie. We'd have a non-standard Indy villain, but at the same time, we leave with the lesson that the US and Russia eventually learned anyway: war isn't the answer.

I will say, though, that I do have hope for the Indy/Mutt relationship. I liked the chemistry between Ford and LeBeouf and I'd like to see more of it. I just wish there was more of it throughout the movie and fewer physically-impossible CGI scenes.

[Arbok]

At times, she did seem to admire Indy which just made the ending all that much worse, IMHO, with the alien being reduced to a generic movie monster when it basically killed her with knowledge (I guess).

I think that's up to interpretation as to what exactly is happening. The movie gives no clear answer. Personally, I was under the impression that she was transported with the alien to their dimension, which is why I assumed that Hurt's character kept mentioning the alternate dimension aspect several times at around that point in the movie.

Regardless, it was much like the ending to Raiders of the Lost Ark in that the antagonist got what they wanted, which turned out being not at all what they really desired.

[Svevan]

uh, her boots were left, so no, no interpretation necessary.

[Smash_Brother]

She said in the end "I want to know everything", and I'm guessing she was supposed to have burned into nothingness because "everything" was too much for her to handle.

uh, her boots were left, so no, no interpretation necessary.

But what does that mean, exactly? That the rest of her was burned into nothingness because, if she actually "teleported" her boots would've gone with the rest of her clothing?

[Ian Sane]

Just saw it.  It was good.  I'd say it's easily the worst of the Indy films but that's a pretty high standard to meet.  I'll say straight up - I hate it when they resurrect an old franchise.  Usually you have the clear classic entries and then the tacked on later film doesn't fit.  I was never asking for an Indy IV but I enjoyed myself.  I don't have the original trilogy on DVD and buying it in a set that also comes with this film wouldn't bother me.

The film really started off on a bad note though.  First they did the old "Paramount logo turns into first shot" routine which I loved and then IMMEDIATELY afterwards I'm suddenly watching Caddyshack.  WHAT THE F*CK?!  I was REALLY turned off by that and was really worried about what was going to happen until Indy did the whole gun powder bit and I got into it.

I like how the Soviets were the villains.  I liked the storyline.  As they were checking out the tomb where Indy finds the skull I was just having the blast.  That's what I like about Indiana Jones.  Yeah the action scenes are cool but exploring an ancient tomb is what sucks me in.  They could probably make a film about that with no villains or conflict and I would love it.  I'm probably in the minority there.

Some of the action scenes were pretty silly but then I remembered that this is a series where people jumped out of a plane on an inflatable raft and rode down a mountain.  So, hell, going over three waterfalls just fit.  The monkey scene though is the most retarded thing I've ever seen.  My brother didn't see it with me but I imagine that will completely kill the movie for him.  I'll bet it was Lucas' idea.  Lucas and Spielberg are sadly too big so no one obviously has the balls to tell them "no we're not doing this; it's stupid".  Harrison Ford actually has a reputation for standing up to dumb ideas like that.  Maybe they filmed that scene without him knowing.

There's too much CG in that there is any.  Early on I distinctly remember Spielberg saying there wouldn't be any so that the film would match the look of the others.  Well he obviously lied.  Visually the film doesn't fit the others at all and much of the CG was, like with most films, unnecessary.  That took about fifteen minutes to get used to, especially that digital colour editing all these films do these days that make the lighting look like a bad Xbox 360 game.  Crystal Skull is going to look dated as hell in a few years because of that CG crap.

One thing that caught me off guard is that the film launches right into the plot.  Well, duh, Ian.  Isn't it supposed to?  No, it'd not.  The other films each start with some action scene that has only the smallest connection to the plot, if any.  Boulder scene, Chinese night club scene, Young Indy scene.  They're almost completely self-contained.  So initially I thought Cate Blanchett was doing a cameo and Indy would dispose of her and the main plot would begin.  It doesn't really matter that that didn't happen but it was something all three original films did and it seems like the sort of thing that Spielberg would have picked up on.  It always bothers me when the fans (ie: nerds) notice stuff the creators don't.  It suggests the creators truly don't care and it's just a job for them.  There's no big continuity f*ck ups though which is very nice.  We won't have geeky discussion's of how Leia remembers her mother when she died when she was five minutes old.

The Star Wars prequels were crap and tarnished the legacy of the original films.  I liked Terminator 3 but thought it completely ruined the canon of the classic films.  Godfather III was kinda "meh" but it didn't hurt the original films for me.  I liked Crystal Skull and it's good enough that it doesn't hurt the original films.  It doesn't make them better but it's perfectly acceptable.  Go see it provided you're not in "film critic mode".  Don't worry; there's no Darth Vader screaming "NOOO!" kind of stuff.

[Smash_Brother]

This guy puts it aptly, I think:

http://kylesmithonline.com/?p=1260

The film winds up feeling more like a mockery of the earlier movies than a serious entry to the franchise.

[Plugabugz]

Lethal Weapon 4 and Die Hard 4 did it well enough. But i sat through this last night saying "WTF" followed by "No seriously, WTF?"

Plus the ending is a complete rip from the stargate franchise.

[animecyberrat]

Lethal Weapon 4 was made close enough to it's predecessors though it doesn't fit this analogy at all. This movie is almost 20 years after the last Indiana Jones, but Lethal Weapon 3 came out in the early 90's and Lethal Weapon 4 came out in 97 so it was exactly ten years after the first one.


Anyways, I still haven't gotten to see this movie yet, stupid idiot friends went to see Iron Man instead, so my parents who want to see it also said we'd all go this weekend so I have to wait till next Monday at the earliest. Still contemplating just looking for a copy online to watch but I fear that seeing it on my pc before seeing it in a theater will only lessen the impact it might have.



And I LOVED the Star Wars prequels and still don't get all the hate. So I should still enjoy this hopefully.

[Svevan]

The film winds up feeling more like a mockery of the earlier movies than a serious entry to the franchise.

it's called post-modernism?

[Shift Key]

Lethal Weapon 4 and Die Hard 4 did it well enough. But i sat through this last night saying "WTF" followed by "No seriously, WTF?"

Yeah, the ending left me kind of bitter.

[Dasmos]

I read this and I felt it described the film and those Internet folk who are crying all over the joint.

Self respect demands that you defriend these people. Never speak to
them again. They are a cancer. What they spread is the kind of crap
that eats away at the soul and makes a point of preventing you from
ever enjoying anything again. I am absolutely serious.

If they released Last Crusade today, that part of the internet would
be furious about how it wasn't as serious and dark as Temple of Doom
and how awful it was that it used characters from the original movie
instead of a new supporting cast. And here's the thing: the internet
would be *right* on every single critical point except the one that
actually matters - that Last Crusade was a great movie and a heck of a
lot of fun to go see.

Here's what the stupids on the internet don't get: academic
criticism is a *game*, not a science. Here is how the game works: in
any single situation ever it is possible to use your tiny human brain
to break apart any piece of art. Anyone can come up with pretty words
to explain why every movie or book or painting in the universe has
some terrible flaw. And it will sound especially convincing to idiots.

It's something English majors and people who glue dinosaurs back
together do to pass the time without taking even slightly seriously
that somehow got picked up by worst scum imaginable. That crap is what
happens when your little brother finds your Magic cards - he thinks
it's so cool that his vast intellectual superior has fun with this and
so he makes up his own rules, tears up the cards in frustration and
drools all over the place. In this case, I'm absolutely sure that I'm
not speaking figuratively.

Here's the bottom line: Crystal Skull was a good time. It makes all
the mistakes we imagined it would... it manages to make some of them
work in ways we never expected and falls flat on others. It also does
a lot of other *entertaining* (oh my!) things that I hadn't counted
on. I left the theater happy and I am much, much smarter than anyone
on your friends list.

CONCEPTUAL SPOILERS FOLLOW:

The amazing thing about Crystal Skull is that it's just another
Indiana Jones movie. It's abjectly not the brooding twilight farewell
movie we all assumed it would be. Spielberg/Lucas/whoever made this
movie (hurrr - nobody actually cares) managed to make a movie that
pretends we've been watching Indiana Jones movies for the past 19
years and that this is another one of them. The movie actually
directly apologizes for the fact that this didn't really happen at one
point. It's very cool.

It goes through hoop after hoop after hoop to create this illusion.
When Spielberg says it's just another movie, he's not trying to
deflect criticism -- he's directly stating the point of the film. I
could go on and on about what it does well and what it screws up (it
does many things well and screws up many others)... but whats the
point. Go have a good time at the movies

[Smash_Brother]

I read this and I felt it described the film and those Internet folk who are crying all over the joint.

wordswordswords

Translation: embrace mediocrity

It's one thing to pick apart the movie on a granular level, but it's quite another to take a step back, forget the movie had any kind of history or legacy behind it and just ask yourself "Was I entertained?" and very likely, the answer is a resounding "Kinda".

That's all there is to it.

[Bill Aurion]

Well I finally watched it tonight, and boy was in for a surprise...

That being I found the movie absolutely fantastic...Sure the whole paranormal direction was a bit unnecessary, but they managed to keep the character of the "Indiana Jones universe" intact...Don't feel like getting too into this, but here's my list of Pros and Cons...

Cons
~ I do wish they found another religious artifact instead of going paranormal, but it did have a religious edge to it, so I can forgive it...I didn't have a problem with the alien at the end...People made it sound like it was a big deal, but it's an incredibly short (and ultimately mysterious and dramatic) scene...It's not like the alien was thrown in out of nowhere either, as the Mayans have ALWAYS been associated with extra-terrestrial myth...
~ The "Tarzan" bit felt out of place, and almost "too coincidental" for my taste...But again, it was short and didn't detract from the action scene (which was amazing) at all
~ They didn't really need the atomic bomb bit...I felt that was thrown-in, and the movie wouldn't play out any differently at all without it...
~ I could have done with less CG, but in the heated action scenes I didn't really pay much attention to it...

Pros
~ The action scenes were very well-done...Fantastically well-done...Particularly the motorcycle chase, which was very old-school Indy...The car chase through the jungle was also surprisingly complex, which was a lot of fun...
~ Unlike others, I had absolutely no problem with the villain...She didn't have the character that Belloq in Raiders did, but he was a rival and she was just someone who appeared to admire his work...She played that role well...
~ I loved all the little throwbacks, like when they first enter "Crate Hell" at the beginning...I was like "This is the warehouse from Raiders right?  You are going to show the Ark, right?  You can't have the warehouse and not show the Ark!", and they did, and I was happy...The bit with Marcus was also amusing and sad at the same time... =(
~ They really hit the era on the head...The atmosphere was perfect, and the whole "everyone's a Commie" attitude was dead-on awesome...
~ I'm glad they closed the series "emotionally" with Indy and Marion...But I also find them my favorite on-screen couple, so I guess I'm biased...Ford and Allen just have really good chemistry...
~ The very last bit was fantastic...Where you think that Indy's son is going to pick up the hat but Indy snags it first...It's like a very blunt "There's only ONE Indiana Jones, punk!"...I loved it so much that it's probably my favorite ending to a movie ever...

Overall, I loved it...Not as good as Last Crusade or Raiders, but I'd put it above Temple of Doom (and for record's sake, I also love Temple of Doom...)  I'm definitely going to go see it again next week...

[bustin98]

Ok, I'm with Smash_Brothers. Actually, probably more on the 'disliked it' side than he is.

Seriously, I went to see Indiana Jones. Instead of Indiana hunting relics, he is a relic.

Its one thing for the fans to see the character as iconic, another for the movie to confirm it. Right at the beginning, how are we introduced to Indiana? Spotlight on his shadow of placing the hat on his head. Cue theme music. Why not just spell it out for the idiots in the crowd? This happens more than once through the film. You know, I think we understand that Indy is a larger than life character, lets get to the action.

Ok, we asked for action, how about a ride in a flying refridgerator? How about a Tarzan rip-off? Attack of the giant ants? This jungle is sssooo thick with overgrowth that we need a giant machine to tear through it. Oh no, Indy wrecked it! Wow, what a coincidence that the jungle has two open trails large enough for the rest of our vehicles to travel unimpeded. Now lets have a speeder bike race, I mean, lets fight with swords on the back of two trucks... At least the drivers don't have issue with each other.

This film was less about Indy being Indy and more about milking a franchise. And it sucked.

Oh, and the 50s stuff, didn't any of you feel it was too 'perfect'? Something about it was 'in your face'. Nothing like Back To The Future, or the previous Indy films.

I'm not even a big Indy fan. Continuity means something though. Suspension of disbelief is another mark to hit. And the Crystal Skull fails to hit the mark.

[ThePerm]

about 2 weeks before i watched the new indy movie, i happened to be searching netflix to look for a movie to watch. I watched Forbidden planet with Leslie Neilson(a serious role). Whilst watching KOCS there was a bunch of forbidden planet references. I later checked wikipeda and it said that, thats what they were going for.

I liked Blanchett as the Russian villianess, I too noticed how much more cartoon like the character was. This tends to happen as movies progress. Look at the last batman series, or the comic at least. However, i like this style. so, it doesnt bother me. I was thinking however, where is boris and why doesnt she mention the great and furious leader?

[Kairon]

I'm still flabberghasted how some of you didn't like the movie. I guess there must be some extra-dimensional plane to the indie movies that I can't see. *shrug*

If there was one thing bad, it's that they didn't utilize Cate Blanchett enough. She was hot in this movie. But she's capable of being so much hotter.

[animecyberrat]

Ok so I FINALLY got to see this yesterday, and I am not going to bother worrying about what others thought, cuz I can't change your minds and you won't likely change mine, instead I will say what I thought and why.


First off, I loved it, from start to finish.

I am a little more forgiving when it comes to George Lucas than I am Steven Spielberg, and as far as Indiana Jones is concerned, I still maintain that Temple of Doom never happened, everything else is good.

At first I was thinking it was going to suck and I was having a hard time getting into it, then I decided to take a deep breath, close my eyes and try remembering what it was like when I was a kid, this helped because it made the movie a lot easier to get into.

Just before going to the movie, well I have been doing this all week, I was going through all of my trading cards, cataloging them to post to the website, and I came across my old Topps Star Wars and Indiana Jones cards. Well as I was digging through those old cards and reliving these old movies frame by frame I stopped to look at some of the artwork from Empire Strikes Back, not the filtered special edition remastered garbage we have now, but the actual shots taken back in the 80's to really get an idea of how magical those movies really were.

Anyways what I did was spent a lot of time just admiring the world that George Lucas had created and going back and trying to recall my original reactions to each scene by looking at every card one at a time and reading the descriptive text, also targeted towards young people. All of this helped me get into the mindset that I would need to be in to really enjoy Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls, and you know something, it worked. I think this was the most fun I have had in such a long time, it was like exactly what I needed right now. Sadly I missed one of the most Indiana Jones-esque moments as I had a major bathroom attack and had to leave when Indy was just finding out Marion was the kids mother. Well my parents told me what happened while I was gone and that really made me wish I hadn't left, but the whole rest of the movie was just pure awesome.

What I also found myself thinking about was National Treasure 2, the same movie I had just made so much fun of and hated on to no end, well I was able to forgive Indiana Jones for basically doing the same thing but even more outlandish and unbelievable than NT did it.

Anyways I forgot how to do spoiler tags so I will stop there. All in all I loved every minute of it and can't wait to get this in my collection.

[bustin98]

I don't know if I read it here or somewhere else, but if one were to look at this last film as a live-action cartoon then some of the odd stuff could be forgiven. Its nothing Bugs Bunny couldn't have gotten away with.

The frame of mind I was in though did not prepare me for the movie. I don't know if I like the film any more now than before, but at least I have a proper reference point.

[Smash_Brother]

I don't know...even in a cartoon, I would raise an eye to the "monkey whisperer" scene.

[animecyberrat]

I don't know...even in a cartoon, I would raise an eye to the "monkey whisperer" scene.

was that when Shai Lebuff was swining from the vines, or was that ones of the things I missed when I got up and went to the bathroom?


Cuz I admit it had some stuff that made me roll my eyes, but then I sorta looked past it. I was a lot easier on this movie than I was the Star Wars Prequels, which I did learn to love eventually, _{after I got over their many flaws, and reminded myself it is Star Wars, and after I argued with fans on the official website forums, many times, over stupid things, only to just accept it and be done with it.}