Topic: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?

[Chozo Ghost]

I typed a response here yesterday, but it must not have went through.

In my post, I said I think the reason Nintendo is pulling the plug on Gamecube games and accessories (like the Wave Bird) is simply because they plan on re-releasing (or should I say Wii-releasing?) these in the future for the Wii with upgraded features and in new packaging and so forth. This will make more money for Nintendo, and it will also help distance them from the GC which they are probably ashamed of and what many people view as a failed console.

So yeah, eventually we will probably see AAA GC titles like Windwaker and Sunshine and Melee be Wii-made for the Wii with bonus features and support for the Wii-mote. If that's the plan, then it makes zero sense to keep selling GC games and accessories. Oh, and as for the Wave Bird... give it time and we'll probably see something similar, but it will be called the "Wii Bird".

[Infernal Monkey]

I'm more annoyed at the lack of memory cards than anything. Nintendo never released the really big one here (the 251 or whatever was the maximum size we got, and that was like a limited release). Third party memory cards almost never existed either.

Do you know how many memory card 59's I have sitting around? My walls are made out of them. If I want to play a game I have to knock down my house to search for the right memory card. Just make GC games save to the Wii's gigantic hard drive already, USE MAGIC NINTENDO DO IT.

[Chozo Ghost]

They might release a firmware upgrade to allow you to do just that. But sadly, I think what is most likely to happen is they will just continue to downplay the GC abilities, and if they ever release a new Wii revision it probably will be stripped of GC compatibility in order to save money. That's just my guess anyway, based on things Nintendo has done in the past... Like, remember how the DS couldn't play GB/GBC games? And how there are rumors there will be a new DS revision without the GBA compatibility? So it makes sense to me that Nintendo will eventually do the same with the Wii and GC compatibility.

They aren't alone in that either, because look at how Sony removed the emotion chip from the PS3 to save money, and how MS has abandoned Xbox compatibility in the 360. From their perspective, these old consoles are dead and don't generate profit for them anymore, so why continue to support them?

[Plugabugz]

I think they added it to add to the perception that the Wii has "the largest collection of games ever", referring to its extreme backwards compatibility.

And nothing else.

[Chozo Ghost]

But it wasn't like the GC had the largest game library of all time...

[Plugabugz]

No, but add in the NES, SNES, N64.... It probably still isn't the largest but most people, who aren't aware, will say "wow thats quite a lot" and somehow impressed by it.

If it's a marketable opportunity then why not.

[Ceric]

The Non-Gimped PS3 holds the prize for the largest no real work backward compatibility in my mind.  I can go all the way back to the very first games on the Play Station with no real trouble.  Now I will concede that the Wii has the largest potential game library.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: 18 Days
48 Platinum Wavebirds left

Haha.  I believe you mean Out of Stock.  I guess there really is a market for them.

[Ian Sane]

"No, in ten years all the goons that laughed at the system will pretend they always loved it. Look at the Saturn for example!"

That is so dead on.  Pikmin 2 is going to become one of those legendary games that always make all these "greatest games of all time" lists that practically no one has ever played.  Star Controll II, NiGHTS, Pikmin 2.

Though I always felt that game was the best title on the Cube and always got a raw deal because it didn't have Mario, Link or Samus in it and those seem to be the only Cube titles that ever got any respect.  So it becomes the next Gunstar Heroes it'll be remembered and that's what it deserves.

Sony has managed to use backwards compatibility quite successfully.  PS1 games sold for a couple years after the PS2 was released and PS2 games are still quite plentiful.  Now there's obviously a big difference in that those were successful consoles and the Cube was not.  But I think the real reason Nintendo is sh!tting on the Cube is because of their old misery ways.  Rentals are bad, used game sales are bad, demos are bad.  You know why?  Because in theory we won't buy new games.  That's why Nintendo took longer to release Player's Choice titles on the Cube than the competition did.  That's why some games were $30 when ALL "hits" games for the PS2 and Xbox were $20.  Can't have discounted games eating into full priced games sales.  Nintendo traditionally has poor relationships with third party developers, retailers and the media.  Why?  Because those people make money from Nintendo's products and you can tell that bothers them.  That's why they've always sucked at giving consumers options.  Now Nintendo has always made a quality product and they're very good in regards to maintaining that.  But they've always treated us like marks.  They always want to make a grab for that last penny.  They're the Scrooge of videogames.

So if I can buy a new Wavebird I won't buy a new remote & classic controller.  If I can buy cheap Cube games I might not buy so many Wii games.  It's old misery Nintendo.  It's always been their key flaw.  They will have their ups and down but in the end it will eventually be what kills them if they never fix it.

[darknight06]

Funny thing is, a lot of what you seem to hate are also some of the very reasons the company still exists and makes money even despite the declining sales since the SNES era.

I do have to ask, why don't you have a 360 or a PS2 at least?  Or do you?  I mean for someone like you I honestly can't see why you'd stick with just one if you're as hardcore as you say you are.

[Kairon]

It's weird... I've always considered myself a non-compromising Miyamoto fanboi, but I got BORED of Pikmin 2... I consider Pikmin 1 far more magical than its sequel...

And you know what? In this day and age of Sega gone bankrupt, mergers, acquisitions, and billion dollar losses all around, I think I have to admire Nintendo's conservative fiscal responsibility. There's a lot of flash over substance out there, and Nintendo seems to have spared themselves some of that meaningless illusion.

[NWR_insanolord]

I actually started playing Pikmin 2 again the other day and I agree with Ian, it's the best game on the GameCube. I really hope it gets remembered well, it deserves it. Also, a sequel, sooner rather than later please Nintendo.

[DAaaMan64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I think I have to admire Nintendo's conservative fiscal responsibility.

I respect it as well.  On the other end of that, I do believe that the attitude that produces the fiscal conservativeness  is the same one that disappoints us with various things.

At least Nintendo is still around

[darknight06]

More like billions, remember for the XBox brand to get to where it is now they really threw what was literally over what could very well be the equivalent of half of what Nintendo has in assets down the tube.  Nintendo doesn't make anywhere close to the kind of profits that they lost on that, even in good times.  It shouldn't be a surprise as to the things that they do and say, it keeps them afloat in a market that is becoming more and more hostile by the day.  

To be honest with you, I didn't care for either game.  Then again, I didn't care much for the GC or the N64 eras either.  And that includes the PS1/2 and XBox.

[UltimatePartyBear]

I still kick myself for passing over Pikmin 2 when it was on discount racks for $20.  It really didn't seem like it was going to go anywhere, but then suddenly, boom!  Gone from retail shelves and selling for too much online.  I should just bite the bullet.

[Chozo Ghost]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"So if I can buy a new Wavebird I won't buy a new remote & classic controller.  If I can buy cheap Cube games I might not buy so many Wii games.  It's old misery Nintendo.  It's always been their key flaw.  They will have their ups and down but in the end it will eventually be what kills them if they never fix it.

Actually, I think that's really what has kept them alive all these years (including during the dark days of the GC era). If they weren't so miserly and profit-oriented the GC would not have been profitable, and they'd have thrown money away trying to boost their marketshare. Yes, GC compatibility does help bolster Wii marketshare, but in and of itself it doesn't profit Nintendo if you play used GC games on it. Considering profit potential in every decision they make isn't being greedy; I call it being scrupulous. What you claim will eventually kill Nintendo is actually what has saved them from sharing the same fate as Sega and Atari.

Also remember that the first and only priority of a business is to generate profit. Some companies are willing to bleed money in the short term to gain marketshare, but their long term goal is to profit. Like it or not, it is a simple fact that Nintendo isn't profiting much from old GC games and accessories. But I think there was some quote a year or so ago from Miyamoto where he hinted that we may see  GC games being remade for the Wii. I'm not sure if he was the one who actually said it and I don't know where I read it, but I think it makes sense. Nintendo wants the supply of GC stuff to dry up so that the demand will be high for these ports in the future.

[Ian Sane]

"Actually, I think that's really what has kept them alive all these years (including during the dark days of the GC era)."

I agree with this but at the same time this what created the dark days in the first place.  Using cartridges on the N64 was ultimately what caused their downfall.  And while Nintenod has listed many reasons for using cartridges I'm pretty sure the fact that they completely controlled the manufacturing of them was the deciding factor.  Nintendo doesn't own the compact disc so that option was never any good in their mind.  There's also stuff like secret microcode they didn't reveal to give themselves an edge over third parties.  They lost the third parties and that's what screwed them over for 10 years.  Why did they screw them over?  Because of their misery view that third parties are their competition.

It's kind of like their greatest strength and greatest weakness.

[darknight06]

Everybody says the dark days started during the N64 era, but I'd actually say it all started during the SNES era.  They never really won it by that much, not to mention that they never really started recovering from that time until recently.  Worst of all, their profits started eroding at this point. Their install base was decreasing which meant less profits than the NES by far.

As for the N64 cartridges were only a small part of the issue. Saturn had CDs and yet they didn't light the world on fire either.  Most PS1 games could not have been that big if for no other reason than the fact it only had 2MB of RAM to load anything on that disc into, all the storage in the world doesn't get around that.  Several games if you're just looking at the graphics and basic sounds did not go over 40MB  (aside from the awful videos Mega Man X4 could've easily been on N64 storage wise).  If storage size was a real issue the DS would be getting raped by the PSP which we know isn't happening.  Most DS games are in the range of 8 to 16MB at the most which is the majority of N64 cartridge sizes.  It was primarily their royalties and programming difficulties of the consoles in both Sega and Nintendo's case.  Everybody wanted to get away from Nintendo mainly due to that as well content control (Duke Nukem 64 had no strip joints, saved women instead of kill them, etc.) which they sure as heck lifted during the GC era. (BMX XXX uncensored on GC, censored on PS2)  During the 16 bit era, most developers had originally jumped over to Sega hoping for them to be a salvation until they figured out that Sega as far as royalties were concerned WANTED to be Nintendo.  Part of the reason Sony became third party to these companies in the first place during SNES/Genesis was to study the industry at the time.  They figured out about the royalties and to an extent corrected them for their Playstation brand.  That and Sony literally opened up the floodgates and didn't stop much of anyone from making a game on the system (unless it was 2D...) which lead to one of the biggest libraries in history.  Having the system easy to program for didn't hurt either.

As far as bringing back GC games on the Wii, to be honest with you I hope not.  The Wii needs NEW, FRESH content, let GC and it's games go for a good while before revisiting them.

[King of Twitch]

Solution: sell the updated games on their website; that way no nongamer would be confused and no precious shelf space would be wasted.

The back compat is a great space saving feature for gamecube loyalists and those that want to have the breadth of Nintendo's library at their fingertip. If they're worried about the dreaded manufacturing costs of cube controller/mem card ports they can look at the inflated price of the wii or VC games, or the sales charts, to sleep easier.

[ShyGuy]

Y'know, I never got Pikmin2 because I didn't beat the first one. Got stuck with not enough Pikmin, need to restart.

[IceCold]

To me, the only three games last gen that deserved pure, unadulterated 10s were F-Zero GX, Pikmin 2 and SSBM. Mario Sunshine, Eternal Darkness and Jungle Beat are on the next tier, followed by the third level (Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, RE4).

But yeah, Pikmin 2 is just incredible. I love the game to death.

EDIT: And I know many people will disagree with me on this front, but I liked the Cube better than the SNES.  

[bustin98]

I'll disagree with putting Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4 on the third level.

And I liked the N64 better than the Cube or SNES.

[NWR_insanolord]

Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
I'll disagree with putting Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4 on the third level.



And I liked the N64 better than the Cube or SNES.

I agree with everything in this post.

[Kairon]

The N64 was the best time of my life.

Also, I consider myself a Miyamoto fanboi, but for some reason I found Pikmin 2 vastly disappointing, and Pikmin 1 far more magical...

[NWR_insanolord]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
The N64 was the best time of my life.

Also, I consider myself a Miyamoto fanboi, but for some reason I found Pikmin 2 vastly disappointing, and Pikmin 1 far more magical...

Three of my all-time top five games were on the N64, it is definitely number one on my list (though the Wii seems to be starting to make a run at that). And Kairon, you made the same comments about Pikmin 2 in this same topic 10 hours apart.