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Offline Khushrenada

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Kirby Super Star 2
« on: October 11, 2007, 07:47:09 PM »
I can't believe no one has picked up on this yet. Kirby Super Star is one of the greatest games on the SNES and the best Kirby game ever. Heck, it's such a great game that many of its ideas are appearing in Smash Bros. Brawl. It may still be HAL labs and Sakurai's best and most original work. The fact that they are now making a sequel is the best news I've heard from this Nintendo conference. It could be just the thing to launch Kirby back into top tier status for games.

I'm just worried that this is not a sequel but a remake. In the screens shown, it looks like they;ve just updated the game a bit. There's the gourmet race, the first Kirby game where King Dedede steals all the food (if I'm getting the picture with King Dedede holding the meat correct) and the Great Cave Offensive. In fact, if you look at the great cave offensive pic, on the bottom map, you'll see bosses from the original Kirby Super Star shown by the big dots. Like Fatty Whale, Bongo Bongo and the Chameleon. So, this makes me worried that it will only be a remake. I hope that isn't the case and Kirby's 3rd DS game takes him back to his platforming greatness.  
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Offline Darkheart

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2007, 01:44:54 AM »
They already confirmed its a remake +

They have announced thus far:

-Added cutscenes to the story that are 3-d (whether they are animated or stills in storyboard fashion is still unknown)
-Added a few new levels
-Keeping the graphic style fairly much the same
-Are adding 3 new mini games

I will get it, but this scares me too much of Yoshi Island Ds, I feel the new levels will be uninspired. . . .



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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2007, 07:32:09 AM »
"-Added cutscenes to the story that are 3-d"

Kirby Super Star has a story?

Gunstar Super Heroes and Yoshi's Island DS has taught us one thing.  Making a direct sequel years and years later to a classic game usually doesn't work very well.  Both games just couldn't compare to the original and both were too similar.  They should make a new Kirby game and maybe look at why Super Star worked so well to figure out how to make a really great Kirby game.  But don't directly associate a game with it because that just won't live up to the legend.  Kirby Super Star is too big.  It's status overwhelms the actual game itself.  It's best left alone.

Though if this is just a remake or enhanced port or whatever it's not such a big deal.  Tons of other SNES classics have been re-released.  I prefer new stuff but it's safer for HAL than a direct sequel.  If it's a remake it would be nicer if they just called it Kirby Super Star Deluxe or something and not jerk people around in a "Super Mario Advance" way where they're never clear about it (probably because they want you to buy the game you already have).

Offline Kairon

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2007, 08:12:41 AM »
There goes my dream of Super Star on VC... but still... SO AWESOME!
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2007, 11:19:12 AM »
"There goes my dream of Super Star on VC... but still... SO AWESOME!"

Maybe they'll do it anyway because of the portable vs. home console factor?  Who knows?  Hell they re-released all the Animal Crossing NES games on the GBA and they re-released Metroid on the GBA when it was already unlockable in TWO different Metroid GBA games.  Consumer ignorance seems to favour this sort of thing.  Those buying this on the DS might be unaware of the VC version.

Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2007, 08:46:40 AM »
Well, I'm alright with a remake, but I was hoping for new levels, bosses and things to defeat with the yo-yo ability, too.  I hope they remake it and then make a sequel to the remake, really.  That would be ideal.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2007, 09:22:57 PM »
Ian, come on, Gunstar Super Heroes IS better than Gunstar Heroes if you play with one player.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2007, 05:49:28 AM »
"Ian, come on, Gunstar Super Heroes IS better than Gunstar Heroes if you play with one player."

If I play with one player?  Who plays run-n-gun games one player?  If a game has any resemblance to Contra or Double Dragon it must be played with at least two players.  Otherwise you just aren't playing the game right.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2007, 06:17:10 AM »
How many people would have been able to play a GBA game with two players?

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 06:23:19 AM »
"How many people would have been able to play a GBA game with two players?"

All the more reason why releasing a sequel to a multiplayer game on a portable is dumb... at least from a creative point of view.  I understand the business risk of releasing 2D games on a console but I say make the game right or don't make it at all.

Offline AzureNightmare

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RE:Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2007, 09:11:36 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"How many people would have been able to play a GBA game with two players?"

All the more reason why releasing a sequel to a multiplayer game on a portable is dumb... at least from a creative point of view.  I understand the business risk of releasing 2D games on a console but I say make the game right or don't make it at all.



Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2007, 06:08:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: AzureNightmare
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"How many people would have been able to play a GBA game with two players?"

All the more reason why releasing a sequel to a multiplayer game on a portable is dumb... at least from a creative point of view.  I understand the business risk of releasing 2D games on a console but I say make the game right or don't make it at all.





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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2007, 06:50:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"-Added cutscenes to the story that are 3-d"

Kirby Super Star has a story?

Gunstar Super Heroes and Yoshi's Island DS has taught us one thing.  Making a direct sequel years and years later to a classic game usually doesn't work very well.  Both games just couldn't compare to the original and both were too similar.  They should make a new Kirby game and maybe look at why Super Star worked so well to figure out how to make a really great Kirby game.  But don't directly associate a game with it because that just won't live up to the legend.  Kirby Super Star is too big.  It's status overwhelms the actual game itself.  It's best left alone.

Though if this is just a remake or enhanced port or whatever it's not such a big deal.  Tons of other SNES classics have been re-released.  I prefer new stuff but it's safer for HAL than a direct sequel.  If it's a remake it would be nicer if they just called it Kirby Super Star Deluxe or something and not jerk people around in a "Super Mario Advance" way where they're never clear about it (probably because they want you to buy the game you already have).



Getting back on topic, I do want to discuss this for post for a moment. I never played the original Gunstar Heroes so I can't comment on that comparision. But, I will say, that for me, Yoshi's Island DS is the second best platformer on the DS and some days I almost think it could be the #1 platformer. I'll agree right away that it doesn't have the same magic and ingenuity as the first Yoshi's Island. But that's because so many ideas were crammed into that first one that even in the original games there were some ideas that were hardly used or fully developed. The biggest complaint people have with Yoshi's Island DS was that it was a safe sequel. And I'll agree with that. But does that make it an inferior game? Only if those two games were the only platformers around.

But when you look at other platformers like Wario: Master of Disguise or Kirby:Squeak Squad, Yoshi's Island DS is far and away a better game. And I'm just sticking to platformers that have been released on the DS. Even New Super Mario Bros. was a safe sequel and jad very few power-ups. It was compared unfavorably to other past Mario platformers. That doesn't mean it was a horrible game or hurt sales or that Nintendo should dissasociate every new Mario Platformer from the ones that came before. In fact, even if Nintendo did try to disassociate a Mario platformer from previous Mario platformers, it wouldn't work. It's something that will always be there and every 2-D Mario platformer will be compared to all the other Mario 2-D platformers.

It's just like with Mario Galaxy and it's comparisons to Mario 64. Even if Reggie had not stated the comparison saying this was the true sequel, people would have made the comparison on their own. In fact, people on this board had already made statements that they got a Mario 64 vibe from this game long before Reggie made his statement. In a franchise, every game is going to be compared to other games in that franchise. Mario games are compared to other Mario games, Zelda games are compared to the ones that came before, Yoshi games are compared to the ones that came before and Kirby games are compared to the ones that came before.

That's why Nintendo should just associate games with ones that came before. When they keep trying to distance themselves from a great game in the past, it's aggrivating to the fans. It seems like the company just doesn't get what makes the character so successful. That they can't realize they should be keeping the concepts introduced in that game. Thus, that game grows in stature because it continues to highlight what to do right, while the sequels show what to do wrong. Let's get back to Yoshi's Island. The game is fantastic. Yoshi is now a huge property for Nintendo. So, what are some of the sequels we get? Well, besides appearing in Mario Parties and Kart racing and all that, Yoshi gets Yoshi's Story, Yoshi Topsy-Turvy, Yoshi: Touch and Go and Yoshi's Island DS. Which sequel do you think is best? While Yoshi: Touch and Go isn't bad, I vote Yoshi's Island DS. Why? Because they did as you said. They went back to the great game and incorporated alot of the elements that made it so popular in the first place. Yes, it wasn't perfect and not everything that was great about the first game was in the sequel. But the game doesn't get enough credit for the things it does right. And right now, I'd say Artoon is the company that is closest to getting Yoshi right. If they make another sequel, I have faith that they would be able to nail the spirit of what a Yoshi platformer should be.

Finally, by associating a game with a previous sequel, it does a few things. First, it causes people to take notice of that game. How many fans of Yoshi's Island took notice of Yoshi Topsy-Turvy? Two, it creates expectations. That is good because with expectations comes that realization that this game must be made in a way to compare favorably with the original. If it doesn't, the game is worse off than if it had never been associated with the original in the first place. Three, it shows that people do recognize what made a game great and are trying to take that greatness and apply it to future titles.
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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2007, 07:18:54 PM »
But enough about Yoshi's Island DS for now. Although I could keep promoting that game, I want to shift the focus to Kirby now. Hot Tip: If you want to de-rail this thread or any other, just ask me more questions on Yoshi's Island DS.

If you are a Kirby fan like myself, you compare all the Kirby titles with the ones that came before it. However, unlike other franchises like Mario where you seperate the Kart titles from the platforming titles which you seperate from the sports titles, etc, with Kirby, you include pretty much all his games. So, Kirby's Dream Course is compared to Kirby's Superstar which is compared to Kirby's Air Ride which is compared to Kirby: Canvas Curse. You get the idea. So, when you look at Kirby this way, you realize that the Pink Puff can really be used in almost any type of game or situation. Thus, there is no hard and fast rule about waht makes a Kirby game a Kirby game except for the copying of abilities. That is the one constant. Well, that and having some of the best video game music ever. But because Kirby's biggest game genre is platformer, we'll just stick with that genre for this arguement. So, what made Kirby Super Star so great? I can list most of it.

- Variety of gameplay
- Wide amount of abilities
- Lots of attacks with each ability
- The 2nd Player/Helper
- Varied Difficulty
- Extras/Unlockables
- Revenge of Meta-Knight
- The music

When you look at the other Kirby games that follow, most games will have some of these traits and do them well, yet miss a bunch of these other traits and be worse off for it. As I stated at the outset, Kirby games don't really have a set formula from one game to the next which means there can be experimentation in each Kirby new Kirby game. That said, it's always been a shame that so many of the ideas in this game didn't carry over. Or even like how Mario Kart became a seperate franchise in Mario games, that Kirby Super Star didn't develop into a franchise of Kirby games.

The biggest grievance is the copy ability. In this game, Kirby had at least 25 abilities. The next game, Kirby's Dreamland 3, had 7. That reduces gameplay right there. It wasn't just that Kirby had more copy abilities either. All the copy abilities had different moves that you could perform. So there were many different attacks from just one ability. In Kirby Dreamland 3, the only way you could get different attacks from an ability is with a different animal helper. So, with 6 animal helpers, there was a bit of variety but it was still limiting. You could only use one animal at a time. I think it is the copy abilities of Kirby Super Star that have made all the other Kirby games seem weak in comparison. Why couldn't they carry over these different abilities and attacks? Why did they limit everything again?

Hopefully, by going back to Kirby Super Star, HAL will apply this aspect to future Kirby games. That's the biggest reason why I was excited to think that HAL was making a sequel.
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Offline IceCold

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2007, 07:25:57 PM »
I despised Yoshi's Island DS, and how Artoon handled it. I think it's because the original Yoshi's Island is, without a doubt, the toughest game ever to do a sequel for. Its whole appeal was the brilliant creativity and originality. It thrived on being fresh and exciting. So that's what I have come to associate Yoshi's Island with - a completely new experience.

Which is why YI: DS let me down so much. I wasn't even expecting that much from the game - it was just a subconscious reaction. For Mario platformers I don't mind if they're more focused on pure platforming than item innovation etc, because the gameplay is so damn good.

ALSO, Kirby: Canvas Curse is far and away better than Yoshi's Island, and is nearly the best platformer on the DS.
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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Kirby Super Star 2
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2007, 05:59:06 PM »
Well, it's funny. I mention a bit of that same thought about originality in a review I did. It was actually the review I handed in my first application to work at NWR. I've posted that in the Reader Review section if your interested. Although, looking back, its not so much a review as a reflection. But, I think it basically encompasses what was good about the game and what hampered it and even discusses what can be improved. So, if your curious to see more on the subject, just check out the reader review section.
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Kirby Super Star 2 (Now with Yoshi's Island DS discussions!)
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2007, 05:48:56 AM »
Alright, I saw mention of Kirby's Super Star's story somewhere up there, and I wanted to mention that it had a pretty solid story, actually.  The rest of this post will detail the story as I recall, so it will be riddled with spoilers.  Too long to spoiler-text everything, though, so don't read if you don't want to know.

The game initiates with a peaceful Dream Land, plain and simple.  One day, Kirby's nemesis, King Dedede, along with several tons of minions, steal all the food and put it in Dedede's castle.  Kirby sets off to free the captive yumblies of DL.  Along the way, he goes through a varied Dream Land terrain.  Eventually, he makes it to Dedede's castle, and the two have the fight of the ages, for probably the third or so time, in a wrestling/boxing ring.  If you have any skill at all, Kirby wins, then inflates himself to SUPERHUGEKIRBY, flies off with the castle, and drops food all the way around dream land, like a Bistro Santa Claus or something.  This epic journey was known as Spring Breeze, and featured the tree Whispy Woods, of everyKirbygameeverexceptforlamernewones fame.  This is important for our next tale.

Time passes, and the Spring breeze fades.  It's some season, now, and once again, all of Dream Land's gooey goodies have disappeared.  At first Kirby believes this to be Dededededede growing eyes too big for his stomach, but Dedede is hungry, too, and they figure out a giant bird wearing a vest, named Dyna-Blade has been hording the food this time around.  Once again, epic journey happens and Kirby fights Dynablade big time.  Yo-yo power rocks here, as always, and Kirby should win, if you remember that the "R" and "L" buttons act like a shield and you're not stupid.  So, upon defeat, Dyna-Blade is all like "Yo, I gots ta feed my chillin's, puff daddy."  And Kirby goes all, "Here's a tree to feed your chicks, chick." and takes the nest to Whispy Woods, who produces infinite, but very hard, apples.  DynaBlades is now down with Kirby and the gang.  This skirmish is simply known as "DynaBlade."  To the three Dream Land historians out there.

Then, one day, Kirby is walking, and he falls through a hole in the ground.  He's never been in the hole before, but apparently, it's a Wikipedia of anything possible Nintendo or something.  Seriously, from Screw Attack to Bros' Hats to Lucky Cats, it's all there, I believe.  He eventually works his way out of the hole, fighting general bosses and stuff, and becomes something like a billion-yen-aire.  How did he land in the hole?  You don't know, but you'll soon find out... This was the Great Cave Offensive, as Kirby discussed in length the pros and cons of the screen pass on a third and long, or something like that.

Anyways, Kirby's back and he's celebrating his cold hard cash yens by flying around Dream Land, and he totally sees something not there B.C. (Before Cave).  He takes the handy-dandy warpstar he picked up on his way out of the cave, which is how he broke out, and he flies to it.  It turns out this is MetaKnights uber-cool ship, and that MetaKnight set the trap for Kirby to fall in the cave, so he could get a chance to launch the ship.  Anyways, you land, and it turn out they're all ready for Kirby and there's a bunch of awesome dialog, but the Heavy Lobster, or that bomb cannon thing, or something blows Kirby off the ship!  He's falling and he can't keep up with MetaKnight with just air, so he hits the ground, and works his way over to DynaBlade's crib (literally!).  The two fly off and drop Kirby off back on the ship, which Kirby has been destroying, area by area, and DynaBlade gets hit by a laser of fantastic magnitude, then takes a dive.  Anyways, Kirby goes on to blow up the ship, fight and consume the crew, and then sword-battle MetaKnight to the de-masking.  He wins if you tap the "Y" button over and over again and dodge the right ways, and then MetaKnight takes to the sky from his sky fortress, which is about to blow up like the Fourth of July in Manhattan.  Kirby hopes on a benevolent Wheelie and becomes the Wheelie Rider, where after losing two or three lives, you barely make it off the ship in time, which afterwards, it blows up.  MetaKnight is unheard of since then, except in separate titles loosely related to KSS.  This is Revenge of the MetaKnight.

So that's part one of the story.  Basically, Dedede misbehaves, then gets a spanking, then tells Kirby later that he isn't actin' up, that it's DynaBlade, who soon becomes Kirby's friend (with benefits) because Kirby feeds her babies for free.  Kirby falls in a giant Animal Crossing pitfall thrown by MetaKnight, and when he gets out, MetaKnight is partway through his plot to take over Dream Land, or something absolutely diabolical in that vein.  It all connects, believe it or not.

Then there's the final two chapters:  Milky Way Wishes is the first.  In it, the last trouble maker's ship blew up, and the galaxy is at peace.  However, one mean guy named Marx shows up to ruin it all.  He sets the sun and the moon (Yes, two celestial bodies!) in a terrible quarrel, and in order to fix this, a giant space-faring pocket-watch shows up when the planets align properly and the Age of Aquarius pops up.  He's there to fix the Sun and the Monn by granting the first person he sees a wish.  Well, that Marx fellow saw this coming, shoved Kirby out of the way, and wished for Real Ultimate Power, or something, and also for the clock, whose name is Nova, to stop the sun and moon.  This prompts Nova to jump in-between the sun and moon, which isn't good, because they still want to fight.  Anyways, Kirby hops on a Gradius-like WarpStar ship, and R-types through Nova, destroying those tubes that block Mother Brain, or powers Nova's Heart, or something like that.  Basically, he takes out a giant screw from the giant clock.  This really pisses Marx off, who now is like a jester-bat.  Like if Batman and the Joker merged together, were purple, and a three-year-old with super powers that rival Galactus.  So, anyways, Kirby whups up in the throw-down, and tells that Nova to make the sun and moon make friends and get out!  And once more, Dream Land is at peace.  This saga doesn't connect with any other adventure, really, but my memory may be fuzzy.

And that brings us to the last part of KSS canon, although, loosely so:  The Arena.  The historians wanted to prove that Post-Crisis Kirby was the best ever, so they let him choose a power and fight anything remotely close to a boss in the entire games, and also Waddle Dee with a whole lot more life for a Waddle Dee than normal.  After about ten or twenty tries, Kirby wins, and everyone's happy!  Then you go play Gourmet Race, where cake is not a lie, and beat DEDEDEDEDEDE.  And the other two minigames, but those are definitely not canon this time, so I'm not talking about them.

Anyways, I hope you enjoyed my brief interpretation of Kirby's Super Star's story.  It's pretty accurate, but juiced up tp be more entertaining since it's a long post.  Bon Appetite!