Topic: Is Nintendo Creating Lapsed Wii Gamers?

[Kairon]

Yeah, I have to compile my thoughts on third-party support Post-TGS one of these days... urgh

As for new IPs, I really don't care that much. The character on the game is window dressing. What I want are new EXPERIENCES. Whether that be with Mario or a purple dragon I don't care. Whether that be with the Killer 7 cast or Travis Touchdown I don't care. I don't mind sequels as long as they're fundamentally eye-opening and something I've never touched before.

So Nintendo can keep making Zelda games and Mario games for all I care. Just make each one NEW. (actually, I completely skipped NSMB because it just didn't look new enough to interest me... and I'm just NOT hyped for Mario Kart because Double Dash showed that the series was getting creatively bankrupt)

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, I have to compile my thoughts on third-party support Post-TGS one of these days... urgh

As for new IPs, I really don't care that much. The character on the game is window dressing. What I want are new EXPERIENCES. Whether that be with Mario or a purple dragon I don't care. Whether that be with the Killer 7 cast or Travis Touchdown I don't care. I don't mind sequels as long as they're fundamentally eye-opening and something I've never touched before.

So Nintendo can keep making Zelda games and Mario games for all I care. Just make each one NEW. (actually, I completely skipped NSMB because it just didn't look new enough to interest me... and I'm just NOT hyped for Mario Kart because Double Dash showed that the series was getting creatively bankrupt)

But buy the bottom of the barrel third party games, those are the ones to get hyped for. Sometimes Kairon you confuse me.

[Ian Sane]

"Existing gameplay styles won't attract new people."

Who says?  Is Nintendo even trying?  It's not like the only way to make a new style of gameplay is to make it casual/non-gamer focused.  Hell just look at WiiSports.  Is there ANY reason why the baseball in that game couldn't have been used for a full sized baseball game with seasons and teams and the whole bit (doesn't even have to be licenced; could be made up teams like Baseball Stars)?  No.  Nintendo chose to make it limited to attract non-gamers but the controller made it very fresh and different.  WiiSports could have been made into four or five innovative games but instead Nintendo intentionally dumbed it down.  Though to be fair they likely couldn't have got it done in time for launch if they didn't.  There's no rule that the only way to make a gamer game is to reuse some old formula.

And while you may argue that that won't attract new gamers is there not a risk of repetitive rehashes turning away the older gamers?  That's kind of what this thread is about.  Why not attract the new gamers while making a serious effort to KEEP the old gamers?  The whole thing just shows how non-gamers are all that really matters to Nintendo.  They're not even TRYING to keep the old gamers.  They just ASSUME we'll stick around for rehashes and stale franchises.  Maybe most people will, for this generation at least, but they shouldn't and Nintendo shouldn't treat us that way.

"You people are acting as if creating a new IP is as simple as saying 'Hey, why don't we create a new IP'."

It's not that simple but that's all part of game design.  If it's not a new IP then it's a new way to play a sequel or a new take on a genre.  Or even if it's a cookie-cutter sequel it's new levels.  Being a game designers means being creative.  I wouldn't cut a songwriter slack if he couldn't write new songs.  Hell they got this new Zapper and they came up with some sort of new game for it, it's just that they threw Link in there.  "But if it's Zelda it will sell more."  Well in the shortrun that's probably right but Zelda won't sell forever and new IPs need to be created for the future.  Just look at how younger gamers love Halo.  Of course they do.  That's a franchise for their generation.  They weren't even born yet when Zelda and Mario first debuted.  Those franchises have to be created.  So if you're making a new shooter game for the Zapper already why not TRY to make it something new.  Zelda seems rather shoehorned in there anyway.  Maybe the new IP will take off and in 20 years they'll be releasing endless spinoffs of THAT when Zelda no longer sells.  It all has to start somewhere and each generation needs new franchises to become attached to.  Pokemon would probably not have been as big it used an existing IP.  For people in that age group Pokemon was theirs and that helped make it a big deal.

[Plugabugz]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Existing gameplay styles won't attract new people."

Who says?  Is Nintendo even trying?  It's not like the only way to make a new style of gameplay is to make it casual/non-gamer focused.  Hell just look at WiiSports.  Is there ANY reason why the baseball in that game couldn't have been used for a full sized baseball game with seasons and teams and the whole bit (doesn't even have to be licenced; could be made up teams like Baseball Stars)?  No.  Nintendo chose to make it limited to attract non-gamers but the controller made it very fresh and different.  WiiSports could have been made into four or five innovative games but instead Nintendo intentionally dumbed it down.

Remember Pennant Chase Baseball? IIRC that was due a release AFTER Super Paper Mario so i bet that was quietly moved too.

[IceCold]

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Maybe I just have a lower tolerance of rehashing and it will just take longer for others to question why they're playing yet another Kirby game that really doesn't do anything Kirby Superstar did better years ago and why Nintendo is offering very little else.

Oh damn. Please tell me that you're not referring to Kirby: Canvas Curse here.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that couchmonkey is right on two accounts. First, Nintendo has singlehandedly shifted the industry, and next generation we'll see the full effects. And also, the way people go through games like water these days always amazes me. I still have stuff to catch up on for the GAMECUBE, let alone the DS and Wii.

[Ian Sane]

"Oh damn. Please tell me that you're not referring to Kirby: Canvas Curse here."

I'm not.  I just picked Kirby as an arbitrary Nintendo franchise.

[Maverick]

I consume far more video games than I ever have water...

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
But buy the bottom of the barrel third party games, those are the ones to get hyped for. Sometimes Kairon you confuse me.

I will admit, I have a double standard. Much like 1up and most hardcore/mainstream review sites, I expect Nintendo games to be the pinnacle of everything ever made. Halo? It's pretty, got maybe one or two really new things about it, but like GoldenPhoenix often complains, it's true that the game doesn't really blow the hinges off of game design. An easy 9.5.

Oh, but Nintendo... Nintendo has to EARN that 9.5 or 10.0. I felt that Twilight Princess was overrated, I skipped out on NSMB, I even feel like Animal Crossing: Wild World was a failure! Although I chafe at 1up's recent score of 8.0 to Zelda:PH, I can't help but agree with a lot of their review points. And I conveniently gloss over any other hypocritical practices they may exhibit in other reviews.

It's a double standard, plain and simple. Nintendo games need to be perfect. Non-Nintendo games... they can get away with imperfections.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Actually from what I've played PH deserves an 8.

[Kairon]

OMG! GP! You're just like me!

[Infernal Monkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: IanSane
Is there ANY reason why the baseball in that game couldn't have been used for a full sized baseball game with seasons and teams and the whole bit (doesn't even have to be licenced; could be made up teams like Baseball Stars)? No. Nintendo chose to make it limited to attract non-gamers but the controller made it very fresh and different. WiiSports could have been made into four or five innovative games but instead Nintendo intentionally dumbed it down.

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MAN ON SIDE OF ROAD, TELL ME!

"BUY MY APPLES"

I DON'T LIKE APPL-YOUR WIFE IS DEAD!

"NAH SHE'LL BE APPLES"

HAHA, WOW (WHOA!!!!!!!)    

[Deguello]

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Ironically, I see this kind of exaggerated, dismissive righteousness as a means to discard others' opinions more often than I see what you actually describe. This has been an intelligent thread. Let's not muck it up.

I think that's the point, dude.  You are in the severe minority on the internet as well.  And no backhanded insults, please.  Or... you know, you can keep on with them.  That's fine.

Couchmonkey:

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and I believe future lapsed gamers will reject video games as a whole because they perceive the new gaming as either a personal insult to them (how can they do this to me, their loyal customer?) or as an insult to the passtime (kids these days don't know what a real video game is!)

I wish they would do this much quicker so that nobody has to read their sandwich boards on the street corners.

[BigJim]

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I think that's the point, dude.You are in the severe minority on the internet as well. And nobackhanded insults, please. Or... you know, you can keep on with them.That's fine.

Then no more dismissive exaggerations. Deal?

I'm in the minority of what? Those that hate game droughts are a minority? Those that think droughts exist are a minority? Or those that think lapsed gamers exist are a minority? In any case, that's debatable.

[LunaticFringe]

I will admit that I am a lapsed gamer


I bought the wii with high hopes.  Im glad at the sucess it has been having, but disappointed with the current game line up.  I know its the first year, but still...

When I bought my Wii, I also bought Zelda.  At the time I was in college, so Wii Sports was permanently stuck in my Wii for drinking games.  Zelda never got much play.  I bought Wario Ware thinking another party game that my friends wcould play when we pre-game to go out.  They didn't "get" it.  I think they were just completely weirded out.  Fastforward to this fall,  I bought Super Mario Strikers Charged.  I played a little of it, its fun.  Online is pretty cool, but leaves much to be desired.

The light at the end of the tunnel for me is Smash Brothers.  That and Mario Kart are probably the reason I even bought a console in this gen in the first place.


All the games I have bought and intend to buy are first party.  I think Third party just is not pumping out the quality games that they need to in order to sell the numbers that they want.  I also think the Wii is inundated with party games because they are cheap and easy to make.  Devs just want a quick buck out of these games and thats why they lack real substance.  Again, I know its still been less than a year.  But I dont even see anything of true substance in the near future.

Also the Wii's RPG line up is dreadfull, which dissapoints me.  


First Party Nintendo games are always great because Nintendo always produces quality, its one of the reasons why I have grown up with the Nintendo systems all the way back to my NES back in the day.  Third Party games just have left me very skeptical, especially in the recent past.  Hence, I dont think third party games are gonna sell well unless they inspire people to go out and buy it.  Only way that is happening is through producing a quality game.

[Mario]

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I bought Super Mario Strikers Charged. I played a little of it, its fun. Online is pretty cool, but leaves much to be desired.

Like what? It's one of the few games i'd give a perfect 10 for balance, features and gameplay.

[Deguello]

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Originally posted by: BigJim

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I think that's the point, dude.You are in the severe minority on the internet as well. And nobackhanded insults, please. Or... you know, you can keep on with them.That's fine.

Then no more dismissive exaggerations. Deal?

Ha ha ha ha!  No no no no, son.  You don't understand.  This is not a negotiation.  I am telling you not to insult me again.  Me stating that there aren't significant numbers of whining people on the internet to cause concern and also are not equivalent in size to the content Wii owners is not the same as you underhandedly calling me unintelligent.  Calling into question the rationale behind an opinion is not the same as calling me stupid, no matter how much sarcasm I use.  In fact I'll dismiss your opinion again.  Watch me.  Here I am dismissing Bigjim's opinion.  Maybe I'll use sarcasm.  Welcome to the internet, BigJim.  But if you insult me like that again, you'll find yourself an NWR-lapsed forumer.

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I'm in the minority of what? Those that hate game droughts are a minority? Those that think droughts exist are a minority? Or those that think lapsed gamers exist are a minority? In any case, that's debatable.

Follow the logic train.  You said you saw more of these "dismissive exaggerations" than this "concern-trolling oh-my-god-Wii-creating-Wii-lapsed-gamers-and-oh-my-god-also-a-game-drought" types posts.  That's because you are in the minority here.  To show a similar example, there are just as many posts from "DS lapsed" gamers (In other words, people who think there's a DS game drought) on the internet and they are in the severe minority, so their opinions are dismissed with some exaggeration.  You follow?

[Kairon]

I'm confused and scared.

[Deguello]

It was a rare occurrence of the dreaded Timed out Quadruple post.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Deguello
It was a rare occurrence of the dreaded Timed out Quadruple post.

One of you is scary enough, the very idea that there might be four of you out there in the world somewhere each at different terminals posting the exact same thing is enough to make me go to bed with a Wii Zapper.

[Maverick]

Go to bed with a Wii Zapper, or go to bed with a Wii Zapper?  Eh?  Ehhh???... nevermind.

[wandering]

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Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Now on to the real question: Yes, Wii and DS are creating lapsed gamers.  Ian is a prime example: he's not 100% lapsed yet, but he's practically there.  Who will be a lapsed gamer?

1. People who can't stand motion controls.  They're going to be lapsed within a generation because nobody will make a home console without them anymore.

2. People who pine for maximum graphical power and hours of cinemas.  Nintendo is pointing the way here: you can make a whole lot more profit when you don't waste tons of money on the trimmings.

3. People who want long, hard, complicated, one-player games.

What about gamers who want long, easy, complicated, one player games? We won't be affected, right?

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Originally posted by: Mario

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I bought Super Mario Strikers Charged. I played a little of it, its fun. Online is pretty cool, but leaves much to be desired.

Like what? It's one of the few games i'd give a perfect 10 for balance, features and gameplay.

You know what I couldn't stand about Mario Strikers Charged? It wasn't the horrible framerate or the load times. It was the extent to which it twisted Nintendo's characters. Mario was too angry. Peach was too sexy.    

[Maverick]

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Originally posted by: wandering
Peach was too sexy.

Blasphemy!

[IceCold]

I want more reflex-based games.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: wandering
Peach was too sexy.

I would always break into a wide grin whenever she did that sashaying runway walk and the game's music went VROOOOMMM!!!
 

[BigJim]

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Ha ha ha ha! No no no no, son. You don't understand. This is not a negotiation. I am telling you not to insult me again. Me stating that there aren't significant numbers of whining people on the internet to cause concern and also are not equivalent in size to the content Wii owners is not the same as you underhandedly calling me unintelligent. Calling into question the rationale behind an opinion is not the same as calling me stupid, no matter how much sarcasm I use. In fact I'll dismiss your opinion again. Watch me. Here I am dismissing Bigjim's opinion. Maybe I'll use sarcasm. Welcome to the internet, BigJim. But if you insult me like that again, you'll find yourself an NWR-lapsed forumer.

I'd hardly call it negotiation either. I called you on your dismissive responses, which you willingly demonstrate. I then asked you not to muck up an intelligent discussion with it. That is not calling you unintelligent. All things considered, threatening me with the banning stick is pretty unfortunate. Are you really that upset by this discussion?

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Follow the logic train. You said you saw more of these "dismissive exaggerations" than this "concern-trolling oh-my-god-Wii-creating-Wii-lapsed-gamers-and-oh-my-god-also-a-game-drought" types posts. That's because you are in the minority here. To show a similar example, there are just as many posts from "DS lapsed" gamers (In other words, people who think there's a DS game drought) on the internet and they are in the severe minority, so their opinions are dismissed with some exaggeration. You follow?

You're still not being clear. But I THINK you're trying to say I am in the minority for thinking there are droughts and/or lapsed gamers.

If you want to talk about minorities, you're virtually the only one here who thinks lapsed gamers don't exist. Nintendo's money hats don't agree with you either. The consensus is not in favor of the "amorphous phantom group of 300" theory, so I think this dialog has about run its course.

But we get it. You don't think lapsed gamers or droughts exist. Fine. Cool. You're allowed to have those opinions if you so choose.