Topic: Is Nintendo Creating Lapsed Wii Gamers?

[Jonnyboy117]

Everyone knows the Wii has been bringing back "lapsed gamers", or people who got bored/frustrated with gaming at some point in the past few years but whose interest has been reignited by the Wii controllers and casual gaming strategy.

What I have been thinking about today is whether Wii has also been creating "Lapsed Wii Gamers", or Nintendo fans who bought the Wii but have long stretches between playing times because of the lack of compelling software on it.  I say Nintendo fans because this effect probably wouldn't be seen with people who own other new consoles or a gaming PC.

[ThePerm]

i have no money, and therefore no new games, and the games i have are missing.

[Kairon]

Does the simple lack of first year software knock-outs deserve a special term? The first year for ANY console is slim pickings, just look at the XBox 360, the Playstationconsoles (all of them), and even the DS or PSP!

[GoldenPhoenix]

One thing that bothers me is all the whining about Wii, do you guys realize how well we have it? We have great titles like Zelda, WarioWare, Mario Strikers, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3, amongst others. For a first year lineup the Wii has been quite amazing, even some of the 3rd party efforts have been of high quality. If you want to see a system that has created lapsed gamers, look at PS3, the lineup is atrocius compared to Wii with MAYBE 3 great to good games, and many of those came out in the last few months.

[TrueNerd]

I'm with Kairon. I would also argue that the VC has been a nice stopgap in-between games that require playing.  

[Svevan]

I think there's a possibility, not from Nintendo fans, but from non-gamers: many of the adults I showed the Wii to (including my mother) asked me about the price, and if the thing were 50 or 100 bucks less they would've gotten it. If they had (and some of them did) on the strength of Wii Sports alone, where are they now? How do these new-gamers get advertised to? There was more advertising for Brain Age and Brain Age 2 than for Wii Play, and that's the only other piece of software I could recommend to a non-gamer, even a year later. I tried showing some of these adults Zelda, or Trauma Center, or other things, and they still seemed very far away and removed from their experience. Guitar Hero may be the next "un-game" to satiate these folk, and perhaps Wii Fit.  

[Svevan]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
One thing that bothers me is all the whining about Wii, do you guys realize how well we have it? We have great titles like Zelda, WarioWare, Mario Strikers, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3, amongst others. For a first year lineup the Wii has been quite amazing, even some of the 3rd party efforts have been of high quality. If you want to see a system that has created lapsed gamers, look at PS3, the lineup is atrocius compared to Wii with MAYBE 3 great to good games, and many of those came out in the last few months.

GP, no one's whining about the Wii. We're just discussing the possibility of creating a new generation of lapsed gamers thanks to Wii's power to bring in people who never game. Do they care about WarioWare, Strikers, Excite Truck, SPM, or MP3? Nope.

[TrueNerd]

Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
I think there's a possibility, not from Nintendo fans, but from non-gamers: many of the adults I showed the Wii to (including my mother) asked me about the price, and if the thing were 50 or 100 bucks less they would've gotten it. If they had (and some of them did) on the strength of Wii Sports alone, where are they now? How do these new-gamers get advertised to? There was more advertising for Brain Age and Brain Age 2 than for Wii Play, and that's the only other piece of software I could recommend to a non-gamer, even a year later. I tried showing some of these adults Zelda, or Trauma Center, or other things, and they still seemed very far away and removed from their experience. Guitar Hero may be the next "un-game" to satiate these folk, and perhaps Wii Fit.

Now this I could see happening. Nintendo needs some games to help graduate these former non-gamers to playing more fleshed out games. I would venture to guess that Miyamoto meant Zelda was going to go in a casual direction when he said Twilight Princess was going to be the last Zelda as we know it. Phantom Hourglass could be a harbinger of things to come.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
One thing that bothers me is all the whining about Wii, do you guys realize how well we have it? We have great titles like Zelda, WarioWare, Mario Strikers, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3, amongst others. For a first year lineup the Wii has been quite amazing, even some of the 3rd party efforts have been of high quality. If you want to see a system that has created lapsed gamers, look at PS3, the lineup is atrocius compared to Wii with MAYBE 3 great to good games, and many of those came out in the last few months.

GP, no one's whining about the Wii. We're just discussing the possibility of creating a new generation of lapsed gamers thanks to Wii's power to bring in people who never game. Do they care about WarioWare, Strikers, Excite Truck, SPM, or MP3? Nope.

Who are we talk about, who is the "new generation"? Traditional gamers? If so wouldn't they be attracted to games like Metroid Prime 3?  If we are talking about non-gamers, wouldn't games like WarioWare, Wii Play, Carnival Games, and a host of other games attract them? My mom enjoys all those games.

[Svevan]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Who are we talk about, who is the "new generation"? Traditional gamers? If so wouldn't they be attracted to games like Metroid Prime 3?  If we are talking about non-gamers, wouldn't games like WarioWare, Wii Play, Carnival Games, and a host of other games attract them? My mom enjoys all those games.

It's both. The traditional gamer who put games away ten years ago, for instance, just got Metroid Prime 3. What did they have until then? Not a lot, I would argue. Non-gamers are not going to be attracted to WarioWare without someone helping them along, like a friend, relative, or an advertisement. In the latter case, hah, whatever.

It's an open question. Answer it how you like. Just don't derail the thread.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd

Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
I think there's a possibility, not from Nintendo fans, but from non-gamers: many of the adults I showed the Wii to (including my mother) asked me about the price, and if the thing were 50 or 100 bucks less they would've gotten it. If they had (and some of them did) on the strength of Wii Sports alone, where are they now? How do these new-gamers get advertised to? There was more advertising for Brain Age and Brain Age 2 than for Wii Play, and that's the only other piece of software I could recommend to a non-gamer, even a year later. I tried showing some of these adults Zelda, or Trauma Center, or other things, and they still seemed very far away and removed from their experience. Guitar Hero may be the next "un-game" to satiate these folk, and perhaps Wii Fit.

Now this I could see happening. Nintendo needs some games to help graduate these former non-gamers to playing more fleshed out games. I would venture to guess that Miyamoto meant Zelda was going to go in a casual direction when he said Twilight Princess was going to be the last Zelda as we know it. Phantom Hourglass could be a harbinger of things to come.

Yeah, I also could see this happening... and the only thing I can think of to stave it off would be a real dedicated large and consistent marketing push towards these demographics, and the inclusion of third party titles to fill in the gaps in Nintendo's non-gamer line-up. Maybe an overhaul of Nintendo's Marketting is needed afterall.

For example, third party games like Cooking Mama, My Word Coach, High School Musical: Sing It, and Carnival Games could all be rolled into a "Wii Game" ad campaign along with Wii Play, Wario Ware, and Mario Party. These games could be packaged together into commercials that advertise 2-3 games at a time, and also be grouped together in PR materials and show reels. Nintendo would handle the marketting costs for all this, while third parties with games that Nintendo deems eligible for the program could buy-in at a flat rate.  I think that it only benefits Nintendo to develop and grow this consumer base for themselves and third parties on the Wii.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
GP, no one's whining about the Wii. We're just discussing the possibility of creating a new generation of lapsed gamers thanks to Wii's power to bring in people who never game. Do they care about WarioWare, Strikers, Excite Truck, SPM, or MP3? Nope.

Did you read Jonny's post?  It doesn't seem like that is what he was talking about.  He seemed to be taking a stab at Nintendo's weak "hardcore" lineup by suggesting that people who have been gaming for the past 10+ years are going to suddenly become lapsed gamers because there aren't any good games on Wii.

[Ian Sane]

"What I have been thinking about today is whether Wii has also been creating 'Lapsed Wii Gamers', or Nintendo fans who bought the Wii but have long stretches between playing times because of the lack of compelling software on it."

Well that describes me pretty well.  I didn't buy a Wii at launch or had any interest in doing so because aside from a Zelda game I could and did buy for a console I already owned there wasn't anything that grabbed me.  Now I've bought one for Metroid Prime 3... and that's all I have.  I would probably like Super Paper Mario as well so I could get that.  Other than that ummmmm yeah.  I have not been as interested in Nintendo, and thus videogaming period, since Nintendo decided to make non-gamers a focus.  The DS has been kind of meh to me as well.  It seems like every game Nintendo makes now that doesn't turn me off with dumbed down non-gamer focused design is a sequel.  Nintendo's attitude seems to be that traditional gamers like the established franchises, don't need new franchises and thus won't get them.  All new franchises are focused on the new audience.  Since the whole reason I became a Nintendo fan in the first place was because they usually kept things fresh this strategy is just making me bored with Nintendo.

Jonny do you mean that with the Wii Nintendo is alienating some Nintendo fans because of the non-gamer/casual/mainstream focus?  Because if that's what you mean I agree completely.  Nintendo's focus has changed and I think they risk trading one group for another one.  Fortunately for them the new group is bigger.  Unfortunately for me I'm in the old group and odds are most people here are as well even if they haven't realized it yet.

[Svevan]

Quote
Originally posted by: Vudu
Did you read Jonny's post? It doesn't seem like that is what he was talking about. He seemed to be taking a stab at Nintendo's weak "hardcore" lineup by suggesting that people who have been gaming for the past 10+ years are going to suddenly become lapsed gamers because there aren't any good games on Wii.

You're right, I misread. But I think you're misreading it too.

Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Everyone knows the Wii has been bringing back "lapsed gamers", or people who got bored/frustrated with gaming at some point in the past few years but whose interest has been reignited by the Wii controllers and casual gaming strategy.

What I have been thinking about today is whether Wii has also been creating "Lapsed Wii Gamers", or Nintendo fans who bought the Wii but have long stretches between playing times because of the lack of compelling software on it.  I say Nintendo fans because this effect probably wouldn't be seen with people who own other new consoles or a gaming PC.

I thought Jonny's inference was that people who came back to gaming via the Wii may be disappointed by now, but he meant Nintendo fans (not "hardcore" gamers, as if Zelda or Mario is "hardcore").

As for Nintendo fans, hah, well I've seen this happen but it happens with every Nintendo console lately. "Lapsed Nintendo fans" have either two options: gut it out until the next big game (usually two to three months), stop gaming for a year or so (I've done this twice now, with both GC and Wii), or get another system. I think the first and the third options are more likely than the middle one, but I'm evidence that it happens. Most other people I know who have only a Wii (and are "Nintendo fans") just stop gaming, or play Halo with friends, while waiting for more stuff. Not everyone loves EVERYTHING Nintendo puts out either, so poor Karl who hates Metroid Prime is screwed (not that I'm sympathetic).

So yeah, I think I misread it.  

[TrueNerd]

People who hate Metroid Prime deserve worse.

[Kairon]

This isn't so much the Wii's fault, just the fault of THIRD PARTIES NOT STEPPING UP BLARGH!!! Honestly, the only answer to this is a consistent and diverse flow of software, ala the PS2. Third parties need to be more involved in the Wii for gamers, both new and old, to consistently find new offerings that appeal to them on shelves.

[ShyGuy]

I donno if the Lapsed Wii gamer considers himself lapsed. Not turning on his Wii for three months is no bigger lapse for them than not using that expensive digital video camera that's sitting in the closet for three months or the exercise machine under the bed for the last six months.  

[Kairon]

Yeah, this "lapsed" stuff will return a year from now when everyone talks about how they don't play Wii Fit anymore.

[Ian Sane]

"This isn't so much the Wii's fault, just the fault of THIRD PARTIES NOT STEPPING UP BLARGH!!! Honestly, the only answer to this is a consistent and diverse flow of software, ala the PS2. Third parties need to be more involved in the Wii for gamers, both new and old, to consistently find new offerings that appeal to them on shelves."

Bullseye.  The "wait months between good games" routine is NOT typical Nintendo stuff we all should all expect and learn to deal with.  The N64 and Gamecube were exceptions because they sold like sh!t.  The NES and SNES were incredibly successful dominating consoles so the problem didn't exist.  The problem also didn't exist with Nintendo's portables because again those were really successful machines (though the DS started off like that).  The Wii is the market leader.  It should have more in common with the NES and SNES than the N64 and Gamecube.  On the successful Nintendo systems the third parties filled in the gaps between first party releases and they're not doing it here.  In fact I think they did a better job of that in the first year of the Gamecube's life than they have with the Wii.

The fact that Nintendo now has to split their first party offerings between two different audiences makes it worse since essentially for both groups we get half of what we used to get.  Combine that with third parties giving us crap (which then sells for some dumb reason thus encouraging them to give us MORE crap) and I'm interested in like three games a year, maybe four.  So with a typical console life that's 20 games or less over the ENTIRE run.  If things don't improve then of course there are going to be lapsed Nintendo fans.

Don't know what to do about the third party thing though Nintendo did start the whole last-gen port trend with Zelda.  Still not everything is a last-gen port.  A lot of it is just outright crap which even with their non-games Nintendo isn't really encouraging.  Maybe the problem is that the new market's ignorance of good games has lowered the expected standards and third parties are just being dicks and exploiting it.

[Kairon]

Actually, I'd be happy to be exploited. I'm not feeling exploited enough!

Where's my Okami? Where's my Psychonauts? Why has it taken this long for Samba de Amigo to emerge? We've gotten RE4 and Rygar, why not step up with more wii ports?

Where's my gundam? Where's my mediocre early-life/launch rpgs? Where's my dynasty warriors and Koei whatever-they-make-now? Where's my darned MEGAMAN WII GAMES EVERY 6 MONTHS?!?!?!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Is it just me, or is it kind of flawed logic that Nintendo is splitting their games in half. This year we got three huge titles, in fact Nintendo has been giving a steady flow of BOTH, maybe even more so than GC or N64 ever did. We have to realize that Nintendo is now the 2nd richest company in Japan, they can now create MORE games of both casual and traditional.

[NWR_insanolord]

Yeah, if getting Metroid Prime 3, Battalion Wars 2, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl all in one holiday season is only half of what we got before Nintendo expanded its focus I really wasn't paying enough attention to their releases back then.

[Kairon]

Well, even given all that GP, there's no question that Nintendo alone can't satisfy the breadth of gamers who are looking for Wii games. Nintendo's created a market, it's just that 3rd parties are FAILING at exploiting that market.

Like I keep saying, I HAVE MONEY. TAKE IT FROM ME!!!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Well, even given all that GP, there's no question that Nintendo alone can't satisfy the breadth of gamers who are looking for Wii games. Nintendo's created a market, it's just that 3rd parties are FAILING at exploiting that market.

Like I keep saying, I HAVE MONEY. TAKE IT FROM ME!!!

Yeah Kairon, but all the 3rd parties are already taking that money from you and they don't even need to try!

[Kairon]

But what about the poor poor developers of Soul Calibur Legends? or Spider-Man Friend or Foe? I had to bump those games off of my budget... if those developers tried a little bit harder they'd have my money instead of Crash Bandicoot, Ghost Squad, etc. getting it!