Topic: Sega insults it's mascot, talks about focus on western games

[Mashiro]

And now it's time for another edition of Sega is Stupid.

Brought to you by Budwiser. Budwiser . . . the king of beers.

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Business Week recently examined the new Sega, the Sega that doesn't need to rely on Sonic the Hedgehog, nor any of his s***** friends. Sure, Sonic will be properly whored out for Mario & Sonic At The Olympic Games, but even Sega of America president Simon Jeffrey admits the blue rodent "loses its cool factor when you get about 12 years old."

Gee Sega, I know a certain plumber that has been popular and "cool" for quite some time since he was first introduced to the video game world. Maybe you should stop making crappy a$$ Sonic games and he will be considered cool again. How's about that?

Full Story: Business Week

[Arbok]

I imagine that conversation with Simon Jeffrey then when on to say: "and we are doomed because of that, as Sonic games are about the only thing we can depend on to sell well."

[Sir_Stabbalot]

Sega's like an animal that was hit by a car. It's just waiting for someone to nurse it back to health, or someone to put it out of its misery.

[UERD]

Yeah, that's what happens when you make crappy games: your corporate reputation, and the reputation of everything associated with it, goes down the drains.

Quite frankly, I don't think Sega has very much vital force left. Their best bet might just be to manufacture 'mature', 'hardcore' games for the Wii that will shut the detractors up. Hey, someone's got to do it, right?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Ghost Squad will be a super big hit.

[Arbok]

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When Simon Jeffery became president of Sega of America early the following year, the company had begun pursuing an aggressive global expansion strategy. "It really was a paradigm shift at the top at Sega Sammy," Jeffery says. Although the Japanese old guard wanted to reenter the hardware business, he says, "There really had to be an absolute flushing out of that old way of thinking."

Years from now, this will probably be quoted as to the reason for the decline in quality... and eventual fall of the Sega brand. I did find it interesting that some in the company wanted to get back into the console race, though, as late as the Sammy buyout.

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"It only takes a couple of $20 million games to fail at market, and we're out of business."

Yeah, with the PS3 doing as bad as it, I foresee a lot of firm foreclosure going around this generation.

[Mikintosh]

Yeah, Sonic loses his cool factor when you're over 12 because that's the audience they've been pushing the games at for the last ten years. The Genesis games were just "games", the Adventure and after games are being made and presented as "kid games." I don't know who thought this was a good direction for Sega to push its mascot, but hopefully they're raked over coals every business day.

[Kairon]

So why did they make Sonic for the XBox 360 and PS3? ... Not that anyone WANTS that Sonic... but geez! get on the same page, at least internally!

[S-U-P-E-R]

I know college kids/grads that love Sonic, but they are also anime-loving shut-ins

[18 Days]

Yeah, to be cool the people who like you must also be cool.

[KDR_11k]

I think he's right. Sonic is the "OMG Mayture!" character for children but at around 12 years old the children prefer the "OMG Mayture!" of GTA. Mario was a character that had no goal of being cool, he's just iconic and recognizable but noone would think "Mario is so cool". Sonic was designed to be edgier than Mario, to make kids think "Mario is for kids, if I want to act like a grownup I need the coolness of Sonic" but at some point Sonic no longer seems cool, just like another Mario with some lame sides to him. Kids that are beyond Sonic will get their "cool" from, say, Dante of Devil May Cry or just the "gangsta" crap MTV stuffed them with. At some point they'll get over that desire for coolness and know Sonic only as an icon for nostalgia but not coolness.

Therefore, noone but kids below the age of 12 consider Sonic cool. At least Sega realizes that, Sony would probably proclaim Sonic is still the icon of coolness.

[tiamat1990]

Sonic...I've lost hope that a good game will come out. His only chance is appearing in Smash Bros. It's completely retarded if he doesn't appear.

[couchmonkey]

For the sake of argument, Sonic was always trying to be the "cool" Mario from day one.  Just reading the old manuals in Sonic Mega Collection brings back the memories.  He's a radical dude, bad enough to save us from Dr. Robotnik, don'tcha know?

That said, all of Sonic's cutesy anime friends probably don't help him out in terms of targeting older demographics.  I guess that's the cost of having all this graphical and audio power: people expect some type of a storyline, and at that point you have to start deciding what audience you'll cater to.

Edit: of course, to answer the question of "why do adults still play Mario games and not as much Sonic games?", I'd say that the side-characters (and cheesy voice acting that accompanies them) certainly don't help, but the big problem is likely the quality.

Double-Edit: Read the article, and it's saddening.  I don't think Sega's American ventures have really produced much in the way of quality games...probably even less than their concurrent Japanese products...but they do seem to be improving the company's financial outlook somewhat.

[ryancoke]

i'm holding out for Shadow The hedgehog 2...

[Chozo Ghost]

Just imagine the head of the Disney corporation saying the same about Mickey Mouse....

Although, to be fair, Mickey Mouse was never cool. Sonic, on the other hand, used to be back in the Genesis era.

[Ian Sane]

"Yeah, Sonic loses his cool factor when you're over 12 because that's the audience they've been pushing the games at for the last ten years. The Genesis games were just 'games', the Adventure and after games are being made and presented as 'kid games.' I don't know who thought this was a good direction for Sega to push its mascot, but hopefully they're raked over coals every business day."

That's a great point.  A lot of companies don't get this.  Capcom pushes Mega Man as a kids game as well but back in the day it was just a game.  Mario has never been pushed as a kids game.  An "everyone game" sure but not for kids.  And Sonic looked cooler when he had shorter spines and black eyes.

But one problem is that while Sonic was cool back in 1991 and they have changed his appearance even the Sonic of the Genesis wouldn't be considered cool now.  What was cool then isn't cool now.  All the time my brother complains that stuff that's cool isn't popular anymore.  And though I somewhat agree with him what he doesn't realize he's admitting is that what he's with isn't "it" and what's "it" is weird and scary to him.

Mario though is a lot more "k!ddy" now that he talks.  I think he lost a lot of "cred" (boy that sounds lame) when he was given this goofy voice.

One advantage of older hardware was that because of limitations a character could look cartoony and still not clearly look kid oriented.  You could only do so much with graphics and making a character look cartoony sometimes just made them stand out.  These days a cartoony look is deliberate but then it was sometimes your only option.

[KDR_11k]

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Originally posted by: Chozo Ghost
Just imagine the head of the Disney corporation saying the same about Mickey Mouse....

Although, to be fair, Mickey Mouse was never cool. Sonic, on the other hand, used to be back in the Genesis era.

Mickey Mouse is like Mario, a simple, good protagonist with no need for special mannerisms to make him "bad ass" or anything. They are stereotypical, simple heroes that just exist to provide someone to deal with the challenges the bad guys pose. Do they ever need a reason to save the damsel in distress or stop any other evil plan that's happening? They have no motivation, they just do it because they are heroes and heroes do that.

[NWR_pap64]

So now Sonic is like a whore to Sega. Even when he brings in some money he still gets treated poorly and gets slapped around.

[Chozo Ghost]

It's gotta be from the advancement of graphics. Look at how Mario has changed with each generation from the NES --> SNES --> N64 --> Present. Back in the 8 and even 16 bit days there was no lame voices and the resolutions were too awful to be considered "k!ddy", or anything else.

As graphics improved, developers were forced to decide which fork in the road they'd take their franchises in. Sadly, Nintendo and Sega chose to take their mascots in the more cutesy-poo direction. But Mario could have been some towering hulk with rippling muscles and beard stubble and sweat. They just chose to go the cartoonish route, and Sega did this as well. That's why Sonic is looked at as "k!ddie" now, but it didn't need to be this way and they still can change it at any time.

[Deguello]

No Chozo Ghost, Sonic took the "X-treme dude with 'tude" route.  Mario stayed true to himself and to his roots.  Mario reaps the rewards of his consistent image, Sonic Suffers confusion and general disillusionment.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  Are you saying it's bad to artificially re-invent your characters for an older demographic, or good?  Which is it?  I hope you are being sarcastic.  (For your sake)

[Mashiro]

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Back in the 8 and even 16 bit days there was no lame voices and the resolutions were too awful to be considered "k!ddy", or anything else.

You're kidding . . . right?

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Chozo Ghost
Sadly, Nintendo and Sega chose to take their mascots in the more cutesy-poo direction. But Mario could have been some towering hulk with rippling muscles and beard stubble and sweat. They just chose to go the cartoonish route, and Sega did this as well.

Sadly nothing. Mario is Mario and has always been Mario. All the way back to Donkey Kong he has always been himself. He lives in a very whimsical world filled with fantasy and adventure. He was never about maturity or bravado. If you need proof of that look at other NES games from back in the day that were. Sure, sometimes he looks a little more cute than he should... sometimes. But on the whole he's still himself. How many games from the 8bit/16bit eras have been revised for this new "mature" market only to suck mostly because marketing thought it would be cool to give Sonic a gun? Excuse me, Shadow. Really big distinction there.

Besides, since when has Nintendo ever been one to follow trends? Trends get you killed. One minute you're on top of the world and the next you're just a hack. I wonder why Sega can't manage to figure that out.

[couchmonkey]

Sega always presented Sonic in a certain light.  We can talk about how in-game he was just a video game character, but he's been plastered all over Saturday morning cartoons and comic books since day one, and Sega made much of how "cool" he was.  Since cool changes over time, it's no surprise that today Sonic is an anime character and that entails adding all kinds of worthless side-characters.  (In your stereotypical action anime, at least).

Mario's non-macho voice gives us some similar results, but riddle me this:  Is there a way to bring Mario to modern gaming without making him cartoony while still making him "fun for the whole family"?  Would the world be better off if Mario was still voiced by Captain Lou Albano?  

[Sir_Stabbalot]

Would you really want Mario to look like this?

[KDR_11k]

Waluigi got green clothes, eh?