Topic: Official SSBB SmashDate Discussion

[tombo125]

Smash_Brother, do us all a favor and get some of your online friends registered and play with them.  Problem solved.
And you sound like you think you are the best player ever and nobody would ever want to finish a game with you.  I doubt that either is true.

EDIT: Before you say it, I bet you could beat me in SSB.  I know I would not leave the game tho.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: tombo125
Smash_Brother, do us all a favor and get some of your online friends registered and play with them.  Problem solved.
And you sound like you think you are the best player ever and nobody would ever want to finish a game with you.  I doubt that either is true.

Smash will PWN you.

[JonLeung]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: tombo125
Smash_Brother, do us all a favor and get some of your online friends registered and play with them.  Problem solved.
And you sound like you think you are the best player ever and nobody would ever want to finish a game with you.  I doubt that either is true.

Smash will PWN you.

Well, that IS his name.

He is super, too.  Don't forget whose discussion board this is!  It's the "(Super) Smash Brother's Discussion", after all!

[Mikintosh]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
This is a terrible idea.

Is there anyone who WON'T realize when they're suddenly playing against a CPU? I've yet to play against a CPU in a SSB game which isn't painfully obvious, and I'm sure they'll have it fixed, but the E4All CPU videos weren't exactly encouraging.

Beyond that, if your opponent drops out of fear, you should win, period. I understand they didn't want to destroy the continuity of the match, but I don't like the fact that I could be continuing the game against a CPU when I went online to fight human players. I'd rather the match end and I jump into my next match against humans faster.

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Man, all I can say is that update was EPIC.  Yeah, I know it is a miss use of the word Epic.  But I don't care.  It was awesome.

To each their own, but you sound like you're covering for Sakurai.

We had this information years ago in the form of Metroid Hunters and its online mode which gave you the same choices, minus character selection. There's nothing new or worthwhile in this update, only that I can expect to start playing battles against humans but finish them against CPUs, which completely sucks ass since I can play against CPUs offline and I went online to fight human players.

I don't think it's a good idea that my scud of an opponent can drop a game and force me to defeat a bot or else I too get a disconnect by leaving the game.

I mean, if I dropped, I'd think, "Ha! That poor fool is going to keep playing a bot because he has no choice!" I couldn't think of a better revenge against a player that was better than you than forcing them to fight a CPU for the remainder of the match. It's like the game doesn't acknowledge that you intimidated your opponent but instead carries on like nothing is wrong when you clearly have a bot to mop up.

I was really looking forward to being able to jump into online play at any time and get practice against human players. This kills that for me because half the time will probably be spent against bots because of dropping assclowns. It's a neat idea in theory, but in practice, this will suck. I just hope it gives us the option to end the game when all the human players have dropped on you.

How many people do you think are going to be dropping out per match, anyway? The thing's are only 2-3 minutes long usually; I don't think most people are that impatient. And if they connection's lost...well, you don't really deserve to win that one, do you?

People that are playing the game for fun would rather play an entire match then get a win record that they didn't earn.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mikintosh

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
This is a terrible idea.

Is there anyone who WON'T realize when they're suddenly playing against a CPU? I've yet to play against a CPU in a SSB game which isn't painfully obvious, and I'm sure they'll have it fixed, but the E4All CPU videos weren't exactly encouraging.

Beyond that, if your opponent drops out of fear, you should win, period. I understand they didn't want to destroy the continuity of the match, but I don't like the fact that I could be continuing the game against a CPU when I went online to fight human players. I'd rather the match end and I jump into my next match against humans faster.

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Man, all I can say is that update was EPIC.  Yeah, I know it is a miss use of the word Epic.  But I don't care.  It was awesome.

To each their own, but you sound like you're covering for Sakurai.

We had this information years ago in the form of Metroid Hunters and its online mode which gave you the same choices, minus character selection. There's nothing new or worthwhile in this update, only that I can expect to start playing battles against humans but finish them against CPUs, which completely sucks ass since I can play against CPUs offline and I went online to fight human players.

I don't think it's a good idea that my scud of an opponent can drop a game and force me to defeat a bot or else I too get a disconnect by leaving the game.

I mean, if I dropped, I'd think, "Ha! That poor fool is going to keep playing a bot because he has no choice!" I couldn't think of a better revenge against a player that was better than you than forcing them to fight a CPU for the remainder of the match. It's like the game doesn't acknowledge that you intimidated your opponent but instead carries on like nothing is wrong when you clearly have a bot to mop up.

I was really looking forward to being able to jump into online play at any time and get practice against human players. This kills that for me because half the time will probably be spent against bots because of dropping assclowns. It's a neat idea in theory, but in practice, this will suck. I just hope it gives us the option to end the game when all the human players have dropped on you.

How many people do you think are going to be dropping out per match, anyway? The thing's are only 2-3 minutes long usually; I don't think most people are that impatient. And if they connection's lost...well, you don't really deserve to win that one, do you?

People that are playing the game for fun would rather play an entire match then get a win record that they didn't earn.

Speak for yourself! That would be the only time I could get a win!

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: tombo125
Smash_Brother, do us all a favor and get some of your online friends registered and play with them.  Problem solved.

I can't. SSBB uses its own friend codes and not the Wii's.

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And you sound like you think you are the best player ever and nobody would ever want to finish a game with you.  I doubt that either is true.

EDIT: Before you say it, I bet you could beat me in SSB.  I know I would not leave the game tho.

My skill doesn't even enter into it. I'm more paranoid about people having fun f*cking with other players.

I acknowledge that my views upon this are stilted, but not without reason. Having played various MMOs for a few years, I've known perfectly well that people will do anything they can to cause other people hassle in online games, known as "griefing".

There are three scenarios here:

1. Disconnects are tracked by Wii, meaning that players with too many disconnects will be excluded from random games.

2. Disconnects are tracked by Mii, meaning that players can make new Miis and continue to mess with people all they want.

3. Disconnects aren't tracked at all, meaning that it'll be a hassle when players drop but you can drop yourself without any worry.

#2 concerns me the most, as that means griefers will stick you with a bot just to piss you off and if you want to keep your drop record clean, you'll have to stay to fight it.

As for online skill, I hope I get my ass kicked around. It'll probably dishearten me at first, but after that I'll realize it just means I have much to learn in order to improve.  

[tombo125]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: tombo125
Smash_Brother, do us all a favor and get some of your online friends registered and play with them.  Problem solved.

I can't. SSBB uses its own friend codes and not the Wii's.

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And you sound like you think you are the best player ever and nobody would ever want to finish a game with you.  I doubt that either is true.

EDIT: Before you say it, I bet you could beat me in SSB.  I know I would not leave the game tho.

My skill doesn't even enter into it. I'm more paranoid about people having fun f*cking with other players.

I acknowledge that my views upon this are stilted, but not without reason. Having played various MMOs for a few years, I've known perfectly well that people will do anything they can to cause other people hassle in online games, known as "griefing".

There are three scenarios here:

1. Disconnects are tracked by Wii, meaning that players with too many disconnects will be excluded from random games.

2. Disconnects are tracked by Mii, meaning that players can make new Miis and continue to mess with people all they want.

3. Disconnects aren't tracked at all, meaning that it'll be a hassle when players drop but you can drop yourself without any worry.

#2 concerns me the most, as that means griefers will stick you with a bot just to piss you off and if you want to keep your drop record clean, you'll have to stay to fight it.

As for online skill, I hope I get my ass kicked around. It'll probably dishearten me at first, but after that I'll realize it just means I have much to learn in order to improve.

Ok, i got owned on the bold.  No more talking about things I dont know.

Your post makes more sense to me now.  It sounded like you were saying that you were so good people would not like to play against you.   But I still think that most people will not disconnect when they are losing.  They might have to totally disconnect from the internet and that takes a while to connect to, if i remember correctly.  

[NWR_pap64]

Thinking further about this...What if you are never certain if you are playing against human players? I mean, you could start a 4 player match and never realize that you have been playing bots all along...Sakurai pretty much created the SSB version of the Matrix! O.O

I hope Sakurai was smart enough to include the option of turning bots off when setting up a match. Sakurai included the option to please people, but hopefully he included the option to turn it off and have players do whatever they want.

[Smash_Brother]

It's no worry: we ALL got owned by the repeat friend codes bit.

As for the internet, it does take a bit of time to reconnect, but I still suspect we'd have a lot of droppers kicking around.

It's going to suck to be a mid-level player who doesn't drop: losing to better players while lesser players always drop on you.

I assume there will be some kind of penalty for dropping, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm pretty sure Sakurai said there would be no ranking system, but I'm not sure how it handles individual accounts.

Being able to turn it off would be the best of both worlds, just turning on an option which ends the game if there are no human opponents left would solve any issues.


 

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
It's no worry: we ALL got owned by the repeat friend codes bit.

As for the internet, it does take a bit of time to reconnect, but I still suspect we'd have a lot of droppers kicking around.

It's going to suck to be a mid-level player who doesn't drop: losing to better players while lesser players always drop on you.

I assume there will be some kind of penalty for dropping, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm pretty sure Sakurai said there would be no ranking system, but I'm not sure how it handles individual accounts.

Hopefully I can PWN you Smash_Brother with my CPU replacement.

[Smash_Brother]

Doesn't work in friend games, sorry.

I'm not even going to suggest I'm that good, though. I'm the best player in my circle, but that doesn't mean anything at all since all it really means is that I suck the least.

[Spak-Spang]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
This is a terrible idea.

Is there anyone who WON'T realize when they're suddenly playing against a CPU? I've yet to play against a CPU in a SSB game which isn't painfully obvious, and I'm sure they'll have it fixed, but the E4All CPU videos weren't exactly encouraging.

Beyond that, if your opponent drops out of fear, you should win, period. I understand they didn't want to destroy the continuity of the match, but I don't like the fact that I could be continuing the game against a CPU when I went online to fight human players. I'd rather the match end and I jump into my next match against humans faster.

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Man, all I can say is that update was EPIC.  Yeah, I know it is a miss use of the word Epic.  But I don't care.  It was awesome.

To each their own, but you sound like you're covering for Sakurai.

We had this information years ago in the form of Metroid Hunters and its online mode which gave you the same choices, minus character selection. There's nothing new or worthwhile in this update, only that I can expect to start playing battles against humans but finish them against CPUs, which completely sucks ass since I can play against CPUs offline and I went online to fight human players.

I don't think it's a good idea that my scud of an opponent can drop a game and force me to defeat a bot or else I too get a disconnect by leaving the game.

I mean, if I dropped, I'd think, "Ha! That poor fool is going to keep playing a bot because he has no choice!" I couldn't think of a better revenge against a player that was better than you than forcing them to fight a CPU for the remainder of the match. It's like the game doesn't acknowledge that you intimidated your opponent but instead carries on like nothing is wrong when you clearly have a bot to mop up.

I was really looking forward to being able to jump into online play at any time and get practice against human players. This kills that for me because half the time will probably be spent against bots because of dropping assclowns. It's a neat idea in theory, but in practice, this will suck. I just hope it gives us the option to end the game when all the human players have dropped on you.

I don't think I am being apoligetic at all.  The way I look at it is that Brawl is doing some pretty smart things with its online play.  

Listen if you want to keep records of all your battles and compare your record with others that is available with your friends, which are the only people you really care about the record with anyway.  I don't care if the world champion of Brawl gets another 100 wins because he is playing random people online that are nowhere as good as him.  

What I do care about is what happens in the online matches I do play.  Sometimes it takes awhile to match up with 3 other players and get a game started...I now know that if somebody drops out of the game, I am not left playing in an empty field.  I can finish out the game quickly with computer players and find other players afterwards.  It ends up not making the match meaningless and I can still have fun.  

People drop out of random matches all the time.  Specially if games are being scored.  I would rather not have that happen.  Also people can lose their connections and drop accidentally, and it is not fair to score against them.  Finally, when computer players replace a human person I would rather not the winner get a credit for beating someone online, when they beat a computer.

Basically the system takes care of it self.  Random matches are just that Random and with a means to keep it fun even if players drop.  With your friends is where the real competition begins

[Ceric]

First thing First.  I'm pretty sure at one-point that there was no ranking what so ever in online battles and couple that with not even knowing who the people are.  I mean if they drop who cares.  What I'm hoping for are that they have hidden stats that will guage your ability with a character and in general.  Adjust your replacements difficulty accordingly and call it a  day.

I just hope that the matching making will be ok.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Ceric
First thing First.  I'm pretty sure at one-point that there was no ranking what so ever in online battles and couple that with not even knowing who the people are.  I mean if they drop who cares.  What I'm hoping for are that they have hidden stats that will guage your ability with a character and in general.  Adjust your replacements difficulty accordingly and call it a  day.

I just hope that the matching making will be ok.

I understand what you mean, but when I don't have friends to play against, I want to be honing my skills and thinking, calculating opponents. I'd rather they drop and I jump back into the queue faster than have to notice that they're behaving just like bots.

[vudu]

Maybe it's an option you can turn on and off.  Quit complaining until you know the full story.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: vudu
Maybe it's an option you can turn on and off.  Quit complaining until you know the full story.

"If you get cut off, your character will get taken over by the CPU without your opponents even knowing—it pinch hits for you!"

I'm hopeful, but it doesn't sound like this is the case.

It's not THAT big of a deal. It's just that I was looking forward to going out into the "wild" and battling random players. I would be ok with players dropping but I'd rather not pointlessly fight bots.

Maybe you can still inflate your win/loss record off of bots, and maybe you get coins or prizes or something for winning online.

[Smash_Brother]

On a side note, did anyone else notice that Dedede seems to be stuck in place while performing his final smash? I just realized that, as before I assumed he could call them in and then continue fighting like Pit does.

[Luigi Dude]

OK I'm sorry but why are none of you talking about this.

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And there is one more important thing...

When you have a battle mode that runs online like Basic Brawl, the problem of what to do with hidden characters arises. If one of your opponents chooses a character you haven’t unlocked yet, it will be spoiled for you immediately.

But even without this mode, given the proliferation of the Internet these days, the existence of hidden characters is going to get exposed anyway.

So, this time I’m moving in the direction of not being too hung up on hidden characters.

You can earn most characters by playing through Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary. For those of you who look forward to those encounters, I recommend you clear this mode before playing Basic Brawl.

And as the case has always been, I’ve made it so you can play the characters you unlock in battles.

This pretty much means we can expect him to reveal the hidden characters much sooner then expected.  In Melee he didn't start showing them until after the game was released in Japan, but from his comment it sounds like this time he's going to start showing them before launch because most people will know about them on the internet right away anyway.  Not to mention he's also just confirmed that most of the characters will be unlocked in the Subspace Emissary.  Even though some of us had been thinking that a lot of them would be unlocked that way, it's now official.

Plus we're getting closer to the month before time period now so it sounds like Sakurai is getting everyone ready.  Since December 24th is on a Monday that's also Christmas Eve and a month before the Japan release date you just know something big will be shown that day.  So just 2 more weeks people until the real fun begins.

[wandering]

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Maybe you can still inflate your win/loss record off of bots [...]

You can't. The game doesn't keep track of wins/losses when you're playing against strangers, and bots don't replace players who drop out when you're playing against friends.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude So just 2 more weeks people until the real fun begins.

I hope this is the case.

Also, I THOUGHT I remembered hearing earlier that Sakurai planned to release all of the secret character info before the game was released.

Here's hoping the good updates arrive soon.

[LuigiHann]

The assertion that I can be instantly and unnoticeably replaced by a computer is disconcerting... What is a "human" anyway? What is a "mind" or a "soul"? How do I know I'm not a computer already?

[Nick DiMola]

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Originally posted by: LuigiHann
The assertion that I can be instantly and unnoticeably replaced by a computer is disconcerting... What is a "human" anyway? What is a "mind" or a "soul"? How do I know I'm not a computer already?

Well if you are, please don't take over the world.

[Luigi Dude]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude So just 2 more weeks people until the real fun begins.

I hope this is the case.

Also, I THOUGHT I remembered hearing earlier that Sakurai planned to release all of the secret character info before the game was released.

Here's hoping the good updates arrive soon.

Well the timing is just too perfect.  It's exactly a month before the Japanese release and Christmas is being celebrated in every country represented on the official website.  With those two combined it's just obvious that Sakurai has something big planned for that week.

Unless Sakurai hates Christmas and wants us all to be just as angry as he is during the holidays.  

[Bill Aurion]

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
This pretty much means we can expect him to reveal the hidden characters much sooner then expected.

I don't know about that...I really don't think Sakurai will go out of his way to directly reveal all (or even most of) the secret characters before the game is even out...

By not "being hung up" I take to mean that Sakurai isn't worried about people spoiling all of them, not that he will reveal them himself...

[Mikintosh]

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
OK I'm sorry but why are none of you talking about this.

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And there is one more important thing...

When you have a battle mode that runs online like Basic Brawl, the problem of what to do with hidden characters arises. If one of your opponents chooses a character you haven’t unlocked yet, it will be spoiled for you immediately.

But even without this mode, given the proliferation of the Internet these days, the existence of hidden characters is going to get exposed anyway.

So, this time I’m moving in the direction of not being too hung up on hidden characters.

You can earn most characters by playing through Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary. For those of you who look forward to those encounters, I recommend you clear this mode before playing Basic Brawl.

And as the case has always been, I’ve made it so you can play the characters you unlock in battles.

This pretty much means we can expect him to reveal the hidden characters much sooner then expected.  In Melee he didn't start showing them until after the game was released in Japan, but from his comment it sounds like this time he's going to start showing them before launch because most people will know about them on the internet right away anyway.  Not to mention he's also just confirmed that most of the characters will be unlocked in the Subspace Emissary.  Even though some of us had been thinking that a lot of them would be unlocked that way, it's now official.

Buh? He's referring to the fact that he's not going to block secret characters from being selectable when fighting against people online who still haven't unlocked them yet, as the average gamer will have found out about them once the game's been released due to the Internet. Nothing in there about pre-release information, he's adressing a post-launch scenario.

Not saying he won't reveal the secret characters before the game comes out anyway, but that's not what he's talking about here. And also, he said most of the locked characters will be unlocked through Subspace Emissary, not that most of the total characters in the game will be locked. Though, again, I wouldn't be surprised if they were both the case.