Topic: Wii Update Breaking Freeloaders

[Mashiro]

Wii Update Breaking Freeloaders

This is annoying. I WAS going to order a new freeloader to work on Wii but it seems 3.0 stopped making all version of freloader from working.

It's so god damn annoying that I need to have my gamecube laying around JUST to play Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4. /sigh

Glad I didn't sell my cube after all.  

[UERD]

That's unfortunate. But all three companies have been doing this sort of thing forever (or at least as long as internet firmware update has existed) .

[BlackNMild2k1]

Did this really need a whole new thread?

[Mashiro]

Yes.

Bring back freeloader support thread!

/signed.

[Mashiro]

Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
Did this really need a whole new thread?

On second thought you're right, so lets make this a discussion.

Why for does the Wii need to be region locked anyway?

The fact that DS isn't region locked (or any handhelds from Nintendo for that matter) makes me question things.

Furthermore, select Best Buys and other retailers even CARRY import titles.

So what gives? Why are consoles so different?

Give us a firmware update that lets us play import titles. What's the harm in that?

[optimisticlimbo]

My immediate reaction is licensing, but of course, as you said, we can get GBA and DS games from anywhere.  Maybe it's the assumption that you WILL travel with your handheld game device and want a new game while in another country, yet you won't take your home console with you.  But, that theory is out the window now that airports are making people take consoles out to be scanned.

[Mashiro]

Quote
Originally posted by: optimisticlimbo
My immediate reaction is licensing, but of course, as you said, we can get GBA and DS games from anywhere.  Maybe it's the assumption that you WILL travel with your handheld game device and want a new game while in another country, yet you won't take your home console with you.  But, that theory is out the window now that airports are making people take consoles out to be scanned.

Yeah that and the fact that import titles are sold by major retailers here in the states. So the mystery continues! dun dun dunnn

[MegaByte]

Quote
Originally posted by: UERD
That's unfortunate. But all three companies have been doing this sort of thing forever (or at least as long as internet firmware update has existed) .

But Sony doesn't do region locking anymore and Microsoft makes it optional.

Ironically, hardware mods still work fine, Nintendo only disabled software mods.

[anubis6789]

Quote
Originally posted by: MegaByte
But Sony doesn't do region locking anymore and Microsoft makes it optional.

Actually Sony also allows publishers to choose if they want to region encode a game or not, an example would be Strangle Hold, and Korean DS games are incompatible with other DS systems from around the world (I am not sure if the other way around, if a Korean DS can play other region DS games, works or not either).

I can guaranty that FFXIII, and possibly MGS4, will be region locked on the PS3 because if Square is going to foot the bill to localize and translate the game into English they are going to try and squeeze as much money out of the NA NTSC version as they can, and the best way to do that is region encoding. This is why Europe has it so bad, because the developers/publishers have to optimize the game for the region of Europe by translating and localizing it for multiple countries and get console games running well in PAL. The developers/publishers want to make the money back on doing all that stuff so they region lock it. I am not saying it is right, I am just telling you a few reasons of why it is. If you think about it though, Best Buy carrying imports does not help our cause, because it shows that people will buy imports when they can, which is exactly what scares a lot of the game companies into using region codes.

[UERD]

Quote
Korean DS games are incompatible with other DS systems from around the world (I am not sure if the other way around, if a Korean DS can play other region DS games, works or not either).

This might have something to do with the fact that the Chinese and Korean versions of the DS have special firmware that includes the characters in their languages.

Quote
But Sony doesn't do region locking anymore

Until the next FF comes out, Sony needs all the help it can get when it comes to sales.

Quote
and Microsoft makes it optional.

Yeah, but it's not like they're selling any games in Japan. Anyways, they've locked people out who've made modifications to their XBox hardware.

[Ceric]

So PS3 games are region unlocked in general... Good to know.

[Pale]

I would like to see an actual study that shows just how many games are imported.  If I had to guess, I would say that Nintendo doesn't really care about NA people importing JP games.  I bet it just doesn't happen enough to have any real effect.

What they do worry about is PAL people importing NA games.

[Strell]

We had this discussion over at CAG recently, so I'm just going to copy and paste arguments from there to here.  They answer the question quite well.  However, fair warning: Generally these work best from the company's POV, not our's as gamers.  Such is the world.

Quote
Originally posted by: MarioColbert
Sure. Different countries have a different cost of living. For example, Japanese CDs cost much more. In the United Kingdom DVDs and CDs all cost more. Since there are various methods for importing products, and ordering stuff online from accross the world is all too common now, the companies try to protect their interest by imposing harsher prices.

Japanese releases of music CDs usually have a "bonus track" unavailble elsewhere to encourage the public to pay higher prices. The other industries found it much easier to simply control what you can and can not use, rendering products useless and therefore encouraging piracy.

Notice that the import tax (if any) that you have to pay is collected by the Governing body, so even if a person from U.K. purchases a U.S. game at a higher total cost (shipping + tax), the publisher loses the money from the raw cost of the product, which is what this all is really about. While I can appreciate the ever-so-awesome "bonus content releases" seen on Japanese imports, I have to say that any form of forced control such as Region Codes, and other such nonsense are, all in all, extremely evil to the consumer. If you can not play your DVDs / Games while visiting Europe, you might wish to ask if they were worth the money you paid for them in the first place.

Bonus Content as seen on Japanese Releases actually encourages more sales, since stupid a--holes like myself would buy Japanese versions of Boards of Canada and Autechre CDs for collecting purposes. Region codes will continue to encourage piracy, since they violate the very basic right of the consumer to enjoy the product they paid money for, regardless of what country they happen to find themselves in. Region Codes do not protect from piracy - they protect from Cheap Ass Gamers who watch international markets.

Quote
Originally posted by: Puffa469
On top of all the valid reasons already listed, theres the fact that the same game can be licesed to different companies in different regions. Maybe some Japanese only publisher puts the game out in the JPN market, but for North America, the publishing rights are sold to Activision, for example. If you import the Japanese version, Activision loses out on revenue, cos you didnt buy their US version.

With different deals with different companies to distribute a product in specific markets, more money can be made.

Quote
Originally posted by: MarioColbert's Response to Puffa, Above
Word, thanks for pointing this out. I mostly followed the DVD market, and most of the market is owned by very large guys who are international to begin with at this point. This is probably a better point for Video Game Region Protection than everything I've listed above.

Quote
Originally posted by: Chacrana
In Japan, games are sold at much, much higher prices. It's the same way with music, movies, etc. Since stuff is much cheaper over here and in other areas of the world, allowing people to freely import games and movies would theoretically lead to a ton of reverse importation since nobody in their right mind would want to pay Japan's exorbitant prices when they don't have to. So, it's in Japanese companies' own best interest to prevent reverse importation, thus the region encoding that makes that a much less viable option. Companies in the US would want to reduce the number of people who import the Japanese version of a game and skip the US version simply so they can play it right now... so that's another reason for region coding. Of course, maybe 4 people do such a thing, so it's a pretty weak argument.

Quote
Originally posted by: lordxixor101
Everyone already said it, but it comes down to money.

As a consumer, there is no benefits to you. But, think about something. How many times on here do you read a thread that says, wow, I got X game for $5, I would have paid $10 for it, while someone in the same thread says, I wouldn't have paid $10, but $5 is perfect.

In a perfect world, a company would love to sell everyone their product at exactly the most that you wold pay for it. Right now, that is impossible (though, we are getting closer, Amazon was caught charging repeat customers more for products), but region coding is a step towards that. With region coding, it allows the company to charge what that region can afford. It gets shot if the region from higher paying countries can get the cheaper version.

So, like so many things that seem to make no sense, it all comes down to money..

Quote
Originally posted by: benjamouth's response to lordxixor101, above
Yep, you should see a few message boards I read for UK 360 gamers light up when another Region Free game is put on sale at Play-Asia.

They end up paying about 20-23 pounds (roughly $40) instead of 40 pounds at retail ($80), thats quite a hefty saving.

I'm sure the excuse most companies will use for not making games region free is content restrictions in different countries, but at the end of the day it's all about the bottom line, as most things in the world are.

[Dirk Temporo]

Region lock makes me want to punch Iwata in the junk.

[NWR_insanolord]

None of the points in Strell's post would explain why Nintendo doesn't lock the DS but does lock the Wii.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Unlocking the region doesn't fix the problem that the games aren't necessarily playable in all regions due to difference in TV display standards (PAL vs. NTSC), since yes, the system will either output PAL or NTSC by default, since the world hasn't been fully arse-penetrated by the standardized HD/ED standard yet.

[oohhboy]

Getting a multi system TV is as easy as buying a TV. I not sure what happens in America, but you can't buy a TV that isn't multi system.

[anubis6789]

Quote
Originally posted by: oohhboy
Getting a multi system TV is as easy as buying a TV. I not sure what happens in America, but you can't buy a TV that isn't multi system.

I know that in most of the PAL and SECAM world they have had NTSC compatible TVs since, I think, the mid 80's, but since most U.S. Americans could care less about other countries TV programing, and the fact that we are kind of isolated by two oceans from the "Old World" the need for multi-format TVs was never really that big here. Not until HDTVs started to be sold in the U.S. did you read about them having NTSC/PAL/SECAM support.

[Louieturkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789

Quote
Originally posted by: oohhboy
Getting a multi system TV is as easy as buying a TV. I not sure what happens in America, but you can't buy a TV that isn't multi system.

I know that in most of the PAL and SECAM world they have had NTSC compatible TVs since, I think, the mid 80's, but since most U.S. Americans could care less about other countries TV programing, and the fact that we are kind of isolated by two oceans from the "Old World" the need for multi-format TVs was never really that big here. Not until HDTVs started to be sold in the U.S. did you read about them having NTSC/PAL/SECAM support.

And the reason why most HDTVs today are multiformat compatable is because it's easier and cheaper to manufacture one standard product for the whole world than to manufacture 3 different product lines to appease different formatted regions.

So basically HDTV has standardized the world and Nintendo is fighting it with the Wii.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Fight the power.

[Ghisy]

Well, 3.0U = FTL after all

[KDR_11k]

Heh, the PAL Wii didn't take Freeloaders even at 1.0 which is why my Wii has a GC sitting on top of it (well, not right now since it's in a transport box as I just came home from a vacation).

The whole point of region locking is to prevent the market from punishing NoE for being horribly slow in bringing games over and then charging WAY too much for them. Just locking PAL consoles won't work because then we'd import US consoles and play import games.

This is why Europe has it so bad, because the developers/publishers have to optimize the game for the region of Europe by translating and localizing it for multiple countries and get console games running well in PAL.

Pwahahahaha, yeah, like they spend any time dealing with that. To me it looks more like they do their best to do that job as sloppily as possible. PAL bars, anyone?

Unlocking the region doesn't fix the problem that the games aren't necessarily playable in all regions due to difference in TV display standards (PAL vs. NTSC), since yes, the system will either output PAL or NTSC by default, since the world hasn't been fully arse-penetrated by the standardized HD/ED standard yet.

Most PAL TVs handle NTSC just fine, the PS2's 60Hz mode consists of outputting NTSC (as opposed to PAL60 like the GC does) and all those import enabler discs seem to have no trouble whatsoever dealing with that. It's not like there's ever a reason for an NTSC country to import PAL games anyway.

[anubis6789]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Most PAL TVs handle NTSC just fine, the PS2's 60Hz mode consists of outputting NTSC (as opposed to PAL60 like the GC does) and all those import enabler discs seem to have no trouble whatsoever dealing with that. It's not like there's ever a reason for an NTSC country to import PAL games anyway.

Shenmue 2 for the DC.

And before anyone says anything, I could not stand the first one, but I had quite a few friends who loved it and imported the European version of Shenmue 2.

[Mashiro]

Yep lol Shenmue 2 would be the only PAL import I ever thought of.

But in my rage I decided not to, screw Sega for not releasing it state side. The dumb f****.

Sorry. I'm still angry it never really got released here.

[Plugabugz]

Don't worry, we're pretty used to seeing everything late SUPERPAPERMARIO.

No point complaining in mass protest it at a company that will simply say WE SOLD 10 MILLION COPIES OF BRAIN TRAINING. NON GAMER NON COMPLAINER.