Author Topic: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls  (Read 16276 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2007, 05:12:37 PM »
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Originally posted by: insanolord
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
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Originally posted by: insanolord
If we were to get a space game on the Wii I want Factor 5 back and I want them to make the game that Rogue Squadron III should have been. The Rogue Squadron games took something like X-Wing and streamlined it to work better with console controls. That was great. Now, for the new game, do the same thing, but replace "X-Wing" with "TIE Fighter".


Are you sure about that? If what I'm hearing is right Factor 5 didn't do Lair any good.


Well then maybe not Factor 5, but I want my Imperial-side arcade space game.


My complete never-gonna-happen space game fantasy is that Ambrosia Software will turn the Escape Velocity series into a 3D MMO on the Wii. (Or a version of Nova on the DS, I'm not picky as long as I get some new EV action)

If we're going the up-and-comer route, I say give the guys who did Heatseeker a bigger budget to do a great Sci-Fi game and make it a Wii exclusive. They had some great ideas about the control, and if you make the game look as good as it can on the Wii and add a little more depth to it, you could have something really great.

Also, put the Star Fox franchise in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.


Like put Star Fox in the hands of, I dunno, an IN HOUSE developer!
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2007, 05:16:03 PM »
I want FREELANCER ported to the Wii.
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Offline Mashiro

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2007, 05:18:45 PM »
Star Fox is WAY over-due for a return to greatness.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2007, 05:28:02 PM »
If EAD decides to take Star-Fox back to greatness, I think they should really mean it. Star Fox should take Zelda's traditional spot as the late-in-the-console's-life-awesome-showpiece, and EAD should make that thing PERFECT with at least 2 delays and perhaps a fall 2009 release.
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Offline Rhoq

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2007, 04:23:33 AM »
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Originally posted by: pap64
Has anyone felt like this? Has anyone played a normal console game thinking that Wiimote controls could make it better? What games inspire this feeling in you?


Missile Command on XBox Live Arcade had me feeling like this. Actually, I felt so strongly about it that I sent an e-mail to Atari requesting that they consider porting it over with Wii-Mote controls as a "WiiWare" download in the future. I figure you can aim and move the reticle around with the IR and use the D-Pad to fire. Right on the D-Pad to fire the right cannon, left to fire the left cannon and down (or the "B" trigger) to fire the center cannon.  
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2007, 04:39:57 AM »
I want Privateer update and ported to anything.
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Offline Stogi

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2007, 05:49:39 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
If EAD decides to take Star-Fox back to greatness, I think they should really mean it. Star Fox should take Zelda's traditional spot as the late-in-the-console's-life-awesome-showpiece, and EAD should make that thing PERFECT with at least 2 delays and perhaps a fall 2009 release.


I COMPLETELY agree!

I want to control Star-Fox effortlessly through an asteroid belt, or even crazier, an underground river! I want the speed to be intense (I'm talking about F-zero fast), and I want the action to be spectacular. When a ship is hit, it should explode with a satisfactory "BOOOM!" I should be rewarded for flying extremely dangerously. If I swoop between collapsing rows of stone pillars, there better be an upgrade at the end. It should make it fly vertically, horizontally, and even upside down. Levels should take me from the ground to space and vice-versa, mixing up the environment almost constantly.

I don't know, I just picture it being a hell of a lot more intense than the flying games we see today. Why? Well you fly an interstellar space-ship for one.
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Offline therat

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2007, 06:20:35 AM »
id consider myself pretty hardcore fps shooter fan, and yeah, mouse will always rule. there is no way you can pull off rocket jumps or really quick accurate movements with the wiimote from what ive seen so far. but wii beats analog sticks for sure. its just alil too difficult to flick the screen accurately with the mote. (but if you arent rocket jumping and fun stuff like that, wii-motes fine...most games u cant even rj in anyways)

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2007, 06:59:27 AM »
The Wii's controls are quite interesting.  The Pointer feature literally gives developers the chance to completely revolutionize first person and third person targeting, as has been shown in  Resident Evil 4 for Wii.  And will be shown in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.

The Wii has also shown how mini-games and simple sports games can become fun games by simple and engaging motion controls.  

However, the Wii is limited in the number of buttons available to the gamer, and this either forces developers to map game actions to motions, force button mapping to uncomfortable or difficult to reach buttons, or drop features from the games that would be easy to impliment with traditional games.

Examples of this can be seen in many games, but I would argue non is more noticable than Metroid Prime 3's lack of quick weapon selecting which was a trademark of the series.  Sure we won't miss it, but if the game was created for Gamecube it would have probably still been in the series.

Although there are problems with the Wiimote, and that traditional controls are still useful for many game types, including fighting games.  The controller is not a fad, but the first generation controller that will led into the future.

The reason being is that it adds a feeling of true interaction with the game that has never before been achieved in a console game...much the same way that the DS adds greater interaction.

In to the future I believe that we will get the next Nintendo system with a greatly refined motion controller with better button placement and the potential to truly become BEST method to play all types of games.


Offline EasyCure

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2007, 07:05:05 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
If EAD decides to take Star-Fox back to greatness, I think they should really mean it. Star Fox should take Zelda's traditional spot as the late-in-the-console's-life-awesome-showpiece, and EAD should make that thing PERFECT with at least 2 delays and perhaps a fall 2009 release.


I COMPLETELY agree!

I want to control Star-Fox effortlessly through an asteroid belt, or even crazier, an underground river! I want the speed to be intense (I'm talking about F-zero fast), and I want the action to be spectacular. When a ship is hit, it should explode with a satisfactory "BOOOM!" I should be rewarded for flying extremely dangerously. If I swoop between collapsing rows of stone pillars, there better be an upgrade at the end. It should make it fly vertically, horizontally, and even upside down. Levels should take me from the ground to space and vice-versa, mixing up the environment almost constantly.

I don't know, I just picture it being a hell of a lot more intense than the flying games we see today. Why? Well you fly an interstellar space-ship for one.


starfox with a rewards system for being reckless ala excite truck!??! YES!
we need to dig up that old idea thread for starfox now that we know more about how the wii works
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2007, 09:58:35 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
The Wii's controls are quite interesting.  The Pointer feature literally gives developers the chance to completely revolutionize first person and third person targeting, as has been shown in  Resident Evil 4 for Wii.  And will be shown in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.

The Wii has also shown how mini-games and simple sports games can become fun games by simple and engaging motion controls.  

However, the Wii is limited in the number of buttons available to the gamer, and this either forces developers to map game actions to motions, force button mapping to uncomfortable or difficult to reach buttons, or drop features from the games that would be easy to impliment with traditional games.

Examples of this can be seen in many games, but I would argue non is more noticable than Metroid Prime 3's lack of quick weapon selecting which was a trademark of the series.  Sure we won't miss it, but if the game was created for Gamecube it would have probably still been in the series.

Although there are problems with the Wiimote, and that traditional controls are still useful for many game types, including fighting games.  The controller is not a fad, but the first generation controller that will led into the future.

The reason being is that it adds a feeling of true interaction with the game that has never before been achieved in a console game...much the same way that the DS adds greater interaction.

In to the future I believe that we will get the next Nintendo system with a greatly refined motion controller with better button placement and the potential to truly become BEST method to play all types of games.


Great post. God the next generation will be awesome, even if Nintendo isn't leading it, because the wii's innovations will have taken on a life of their own and proliferated throughout the industry hopefully, germinating in other companies for the next step in realizing their potential.

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Originally posted by: Ceric
I want Privateer update and ported to anything.


You are awesome sir. Awesome.
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Offline Mashiro

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2007, 10:55:38 AM »
Next gen Nintendo system will be . . . full of win.

Also I made it into someone's sig! /happydance Thank you Carry-on!

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2007, 11:01:08 AM »
I've never made it into a sig.
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Offline UERD

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2007, 11:14:59 AM »
Quote

Great post. God the next generation will be awesome, even if Nintendo isn't leading it, because the wii's innovations will have taken on a life of their own and proliferated throughout the industry hopefully, germinating in other companies for the next step in realizing their potential.


"Coming starting September 2010! 50 generic sci-fi shooters, now with all-new motion controls! Get them, only on XBox 720!!!!"

Of course, we could fall into that trap ourselves, with all the crappy mini-game collections and everything.
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Offline tiamat1990

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2007, 07:23:41 PM »
The Wii is too much of an experiment for me to say "I no longer want my PS3/360 controller". With the Wii 2, motion controls should be more refined and the do's and don'ts would have been figured out by then. But as of this moment, no. The motion controls aren't all the great.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2007, 06:54:09 AM »
It shouldn't be a comparison.  Whatever works best is what should be used.  The problem is Nintendo ditched some of the functionality traditional controllers allow and thus turned it into an "either or" situation.

I think everyone at some point played a PC port on a console and found using a controller instead of a mouse awkward.  Sim City for the SNES is a great version with all sorts of neat extras but controlling it is a big pain in the butt.  For years I've felt that a console shouldn't just come with controllers but also a mouse and keyboard.  Both setups have different pros and cons and numerous games are designed for one setup and control like crap on the other.  So offer both and all the bases are covered.

The remote is kind of like including a mouse.  It has virtually the same benefits and it also has some extra motion control capabilities.  Including it, or something like it, was a good idea.  The problem is that Nintendo stripped away some of the functionality of traditional controls.  Marketing got in the way of true progress.  The remote was designed to be simplified for non-gamers.  Now that has helped sales but the Wii does not have an ideal control setup.  The fact that stuff like gestures are even used shows the flaws.  The remote and nunchuk combo is missing important functionality and hopefully someday someone will get it right and provide mouse functionality and motion control in a package that doesn't sacrifice anything.

It's got to be what's best for each game and the Wii doesn't provide that unless a game fully supports the classic controller as well.  A good setup should control 90% of all games ever released with only "speciality" games like light gun games or DDR requiring custom stuff.  Now that requires some complexity so Nintendo probably won't provide the ideal solution any time soon.  The remote isn't the future.  It's just part of a true future standard.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2007, 08:04:20 AM »
If 90% of all games are designed for the new scheme, then the "traditional games" become the specialty games.

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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2007, 10:00:40 AM »
"If 90% of all games are designed for the new scheme, then the "traditional games" become the specialty games."

Considering the traditional setup has been around for over 30 years it's going to take a long time for that to happen.  I doubt even Nintendo will have anything resembling the current Wii setup by then.  Next gen they'll probably release something that is more in between the two designs.  If they don't someone else will.  The remote as is is not an ideal solution so either Nintendo will learn that and continue to refine and improve their idea or they won't and a competitor will do it first and kick their ass.

The future of gaming is not simple non-games because those who are raised on non-games will want to expand on the concept which will make things more complex and in need of more complex controllers.  The evolution from Pong to Super Mario 64 was all natural.  Creative people want to try new things.  The remote design will expand to allow more complexity and in time that would likely end up including the functionality of the old design into the new design (after all it's only less buttons and stuff which will be added in future generations).  Even if we had the holodeck in virtual reality you can hold a virtual controller to play a classic videogame.  The "split" is temporary.  It will all merge.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2007, 10:26:37 AM »
If and when Nintendo updates the Wiimote for the next gen I think the way to go is leave the Nunchuk as it is, and change the Wiimote from a D Pad and one button on the face to 4 buttons, possibly arranged like the GameCube controller, where you still have a very prominent A button but also 3 buttons around it for extra functions. Put those in easy reach of the thumb, with a D Pad or preferably a second analog stick below it instead of above, allowing for easier access than the current Wii D Pad setup. Keep the B trigger as it is, because it provides some interesting things in current and upcoming Wii games.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2007, 11:46:17 AM »
I don't know if Nintendo will be the one to "add more buttons" the way you suggest insanolord. I see MS or Sony doing that, and Nintendo trying to keep the number of buttons down via a more elegant and intuitive, more mass market solution.
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Offline Mashiro

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RE:Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2007, 11:56:07 AM »
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Originally posted by: Kairon
I don't know if Nintendo will be the one to "add more buttons" the way you suggest insanolord. I see MS or Sony doing that, and Nintendo trying to keep the number of buttons down via a more elegant and intuitive, more mass market solution.


I tend to agree with this line of thought. Nintendo's goal with the Wii is to keep things simple and I think this is something that will continue over into the next gen.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2007, 12:19:24 PM »
"I see MS or Sony doing that, and Nintendo trying to keep the number of buttons down via a more elegant and intuitive, more mass market solution."

I see that too though in the longrun I don't see that working out as the non-gamers they attract now will want more out of their games in the future.  To intentionally keep things simple is like putting a cap on game design.  That just isn't going to work, particularly when the competition doesn't have to have a cap.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2007, 12:27:52 PM »
I think the next logical step for the wii style controller is merging the wiimote and the nunchuck into one unit. make it more ergonomic, replace the dpad with analog and add another trigger. This would break VC support, but no biggie.

I could see Sony and MS doing this but Nintendo will probably suprise me.

Offline Mashiro

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2007, 12:30:23 PM »
Just because it is simple though doesn't mean it has to be limiting.

A it stands the Wiimote does its job fine and those who want a more "classic" control solution with games that allow it can use the classic controller. I don't see a need to really add much more to the Wiimote + Nunchuck design. Expanding upon how the Wiimote of the future actually registers movement and such (to allow for even great 1:1 controls) would be enough in my eyes.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Wii controls vs. Traditional controls
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2007, 12:44:29 PM »
I'm sure Nintendo is hard at work finding a way to eliminate the sensor bar.