Author Topic: Are Video Games Art?  (Read 13293 times)

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Offline Stogi

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2007, 11:03:31 PM »
Yo I played that game......

Before I starting playing, you want to know what I thought?

Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
So, youre supposed to interact with people, eh? I hope that doesn't mean listen to them repeat the same phrases over and over again like any other videogame NPC and occassioanlly handing them items.


And you know what it turned about to be?

Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
So, youre supposed to interact with people, eh? I hope that doesn't mean listen to them repeat the same phrases over and over again like any other videogame NPC and occassioanlly handing them items.


That game made me depressed to play it. Like, "why am I sitting here playing a survey?" And even questions like, "God, when will one of these chicks put out. I'm sick of all this bullsh!t. *Continues playing* How about you get your own f#cking candy bar!"  
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Offline Stogi

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2007, 11:06:50 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Evan said it first, having different opinions of what is most important to you when you judge the inner beauty of things is what is tearing down this nation.  Not to mention you better believe GTA is an artistic masterpiece, there is no denying that or you are being a relativist! How about we judge games on the basis whether we derive enjoyment from them? I like that idea much better.

Regardless I want to sum up this thread with the following.

If you don't think GTA is art, you are destroying our culture. The end.


Why are you treating us with so much contempt? I feel... debased!


"Tell that bitch to chill!" - Samuel L. Jackson - Pulp Fiction
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2007, 11:07:56 PM »
Hahahaha! But in order to get that Candy Bar Shana gets to go absolutely NUTSO! *sighs happily* Mooooooooooo!  
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

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Offline Stogi

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2007, 11:14:06 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Hahahaha! But in order to get that Candy Bar Shana goes absolutely NUTSO! *sighs happily* Mooooooooooo!


That's exactly the point I threw the game across the room.

Ironically, I couldn't relate to her even though I'm a little hippy at heart.

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Offline Kairon

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2007, 11:24:44 PM »
Did she freak you out that much? Oh well. Not everyone likes the same things I guess... so art's worth is definitely subjective, even if by definition we're both calling it art you can think it's absolutely wack and I can think it's so amazing that I am now pondering whether I should buy a cellphone SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of playing one or all of the three games that the developer has made since then!

Yes... they've made MORE. MOAR.

Btw, Shana's earth name is Ariel O'laughlin Du Lac. Just fyi.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2007, 01:17:29 AM »
When Killer Instinct was all new I had a poster of B. Orchid from an issue of NMS on my wall. Back then Rare's Silicon Graphics produced rectangle boobs. It was very abstract.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2007, 11:42:50 AM »
Roger Ebert has once again joined the debate. Clive Barker too. Let's see respond to THAT, Mr fancy pants-es.

Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2007, 12:47:28 PM »
Well, I think fighting games could be considered sport and art, like figure skating is considered sport and art.  The same applies with Shmups.

Of course, there's artwork in video games, too.  He neglects to mention that.

Super Metroid is very interesting.  It tells one story.  A very loose story, and it lets the player experience that story in many different paths if they choose to.  It's a story of isolation and exploration.  He would classify the game as a scavenger hunt/point-shoot hybrid, and that's accurate to some degree, but it's really about exploration.

The controls in Ecco the Dolphin, the swimming and jumping, in particular, are beautiful.

He does say at the end that he does not believe all movies are art, but he refuses to accept that some, but not all games are art.

I haven't played Shadow of the Colossus, but I've heard the ideas in that game were pretty artsy, the game wasn't a point/shoot game, it was a collect-a-thon, and it didn't have much in common with Myst, either.

Essentially, Ebert is being very selective.  He mentions a few genres of video games, then devalues them all, saying that nearly every game exists within that mix.  Couldn't we do the same with movies?  With paintings?  With dances?  With song?  Just because games can be classified doesn't make them less of an art, though it does show that some games, along with movies, paintings, dances and songs are out only for the money to be gained, but like I stated, that's true with every art.  Nearly every thing in the world that is created is created to be consumed, and for the creator to gain some benefit.  Otherwise, why would he or she do it?  To try to use that against a particular medium is a ridiculous notion, because even Ebert admits that some movies are cool with little artistic value, solely meant to cash in.

By classify something as a high art while classifying others as low art, he devalues the human condition.  Someone needs to get this man some snowy Calvin & Hobbes, just so he can truly see how biased he is.  Art is art, and it is up to the creator to decide whether their art will be "low" or "high" in production, and more importantly, it is up to each and every individual consumer to decide whether or not he or she thinks something produced is "low" or "high."  Industry and critics shouldn't try to make these decisions for us.  We should make them ourselves.  I do agree that a higher percentage of games than movies are cashing in right now, but I have found several titles that have high artistic value to me personally.  Just because he is yet to find games that are valuable to him does not mean the media form should be written off.  In the end, what only really matters is what we, as individuals, choose to see as art.  We should not form such opinions about a collective medium, but rather, as each individual piece.

And surely, Andy Warhol saw the can itself as art, perhaps through his memories, his family, his childhood, or out of his necessity.  Otherwise, he would not have taken the time to paint one.  After all, paintings of a sunset are considered art, as are paintings of the beach.  These are economical creations, necessary to sustain types of life, whether you believe in the big bang or creation, you have to admit that every thing on this planet was pretty much created to be part of a cycle of life, and is therefore a part of some large economy.  The difference between a coup can and the sunset?  Someone determined a long time ago that the sunset should be considered worthy of art, and people listened, whereas, a relatively short time ago, someone else was determined to prove things like soup cans were worthy of art, and some people listened.  Essentially, all it takes for something to be art is recognition.  If absolutely no one recognizes something as art, it ceases to be art.  However, if any one person sees something as art, then all must accept and respect that there is artistical merit to that thing.  Ebert realizes this, and he tries to minimize it.  To degrade it with an abstract label of "low" shows that in some respect, he must fear it, since he chooses to openly attempt to belittle it.  He admits games are art, and in doing so, shows his fear of the medium.  He uses simple, broad classification as an attempt to neglect the medium, and it is his choice to neglect this art.  He can't make me or you, or anyone else neglect the medium, though.  He's tried and failed, obviously, which is why he fears it and attempts to justify himself.  It's a little sad, but if that's his decision, then let him believe it.

There's no point in arguing with someone who is ignorant of what I think, who doesn't know me, and who does not influence me.  I won't be emailing him, and I didn't in the first place.  I recommend that none of you drop him a line.  He doesn't know you, your experiences, nor all of your thoughts, and he will deny any of the like that you try to tell him, so don't worry about Ebert or others like him.  Let them bask in their 'high' art, because it's something they enjoy, and we should not try to take that away from them.

Offline Kairon

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2007, 01:13:46 PM »
Just for referencing a great calvin and hobbes strip, you win. Hopefully that exempts you from Golden Phoenix's anti-intellectual wrath.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Caliban

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2007, 01:33:30 PM »
Ebert reminds me of Evan.

Offline ThePerm

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2007, 03:48:50 PM »
anything created by people is art,
video games are created by people
therefore, they are art.

things not created by people is actually nature, except elephant and gorilla paintings..which don't have a name, one could call them art however..because a person has to hand the gorillas or elephants paintbrushes in order for them to create their works.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2007, 05:14:09 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Caliban
Ebert reminds me of Evan.


Or vice-versa.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Caliban

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2007, 05:34:24 PM »
@kairon: we're not in the twilight zone, so yeah I guess you are right.

I wonder if Ebert knows what a dictionary is, or does he have his own private dictionary with his own definitions of reality.

I do think videogames are an art form, they are art, Pong can be seen to be many things in either its simplicity or its complexity, it's subjective of course, but that is true for any art form, whether I think if Grafitti is art or not is not up to my definition of what art is, it is art because it is an abstraction expressed by a human. We, the planets, everything is an abstraction created/expressed by the Universe (I use Universe instead of God/s because that's what I believe in), we are art. Yes, I'm known to be crazy.

Offline Kairon

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2007, 05:44:22 PM »
Art... can be illegal too!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline that Baby guy

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2007, 07:11:10 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Just for referencing a great calvin and hobbes strip, you win. Hopefully that exempts you from Golden Phoenix's anti-intellectual wrath.


Calvin and Hobbes is probably the epitome of our society.  I hope thousands of years from now, it is what the USA is known for.

Offline Nick DiMola

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2007, 09:12:42 AM »
Art is a pretentious term only thrown around by snobs to prove that what they enjoy is better than what everyone else enjoys. As Mario said earlier, who cares? Whether or not they are art doesn't change a damn thing, so why bother arguing it?

If you personally think video games are art, they are no matter what Roger Ebert or anyone else says.
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Offline UERD

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2007, 12:58:29 PM »
I completely agree. Now we can go back to deciding whether video games are antisocial murder simulators that are powered by the souls of unborn babies.

*votes yes*
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Offline mantidor

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2007, 04:20:29 PM »
So as I was saying in the wrong thread who care wat Ebert thinks when he doesn't play games?

Thats is indeed another issue with games, they are simply NOT accesible to everyone. With the remote, I really think things will change, but it will be slowly, is the first step of many.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2007, 04:25:54 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
Art is a pretentious term only thrown around by snobs to prove that what they enjoy is better than what everyone else enjoys. As Mario said earlier, who cares? Whether or not they are art doesn't change a damn thing, so why bother arguing it?

If you personally think video games are art, they are no matter what Roger Ebert or anyone else says.


Yeah but, but, but differing opinions of art is causing the moral fabric of everything we know to crumble right before our eyes.
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Offline Karl Castaneda #2

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2007, 07:21:35 PM »
This week's podcast covers Roger Ebert's recent comments on games as art as the featured discussion.

Just thought I'd give you guys a heads up.

(And no, Evan isn't there)
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2007, 08:07:01 PM »
Whether games are art is important for getting govt money that's meant for the promotion of art. I think France has already recognized games as an artform and is putting money into their companies to make sure french games become an important part of the game history.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2007, 09:34:29 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
(And no, Evan isn't there)


This is a CRIME and you know it. How else can you decode Ebert's impenetrable thinking without his heir-apparent at hand?
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Karl Castaneda #2

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2007, 06:24:47 AM »
Evan was really busy the last couple days (read: being a Harry Potter nerd), so he couldn't make recording. Mike, Windy, and I still had some interesting comments, though.
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Offline Ceric

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RE:Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2007, 08:17:21 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: UERD
I completely agree. Now we can go back to deciding whether video games are antisocial murder simulators that are powered by the souls of unborn babies.

*votes yes*


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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE: Are Video Games Art?
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2007, 05:57:25 AM »
Kotaku has up a great article written by an ex-movie critic for the Rocky Mountain News discussing this topic. He does a fantastic job of analyzing the situation and putting out a very compelling argument. In addition, the comments on the article have been fairly well thought out as well. Some of the things mentioned in this week's podcast parallel the arguments here.
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