Topic: Perrin thinks we're freaks, and not the good kind.

[that Baby guy]

But that's the thing.  Hardcore gamers are important to Nintendo.  We're getting all the same games as before at the same rates as before, at least, we are from Nintendo.  I don't see how people don't see that.

Would we have Custom Robo: Arena if we weren't?  New Super Mario Bros? Metroid Prime Hunters?  Yoshi's Island 2? Zelda TP? Super Paper Mario?  The Godfather?

Would we be getting SMG, SSB:B, and Metroid Prime 3 all this year if we weren't?  What about Disaster: DoC or Project Hammer.  Apparently, there will be lot's of games for us at E3, so can't we wait until then to complain about them all?

And don't forget why Wario Ware was successful in the first place:  Hardcore gamers liked it enough for sequels to be made, and then it's audience opened some.  I count Wario Ware: Smooth Moves as a game for us, after all, it is made in the same essence of the original.

Though I can't say for certain, I'm pretty sure Nintendo is releasing about the same amount of games for the hardcore as they always have, and have just increased the number of games they are releasing for the new casual gamers.  Essentially, isn't more games better for us?  We may not like every mini-game-like game, but one or two a year can be pretty fun, and it isn't like we're missing out on new franchises and old series by gaining these.

I mean, with the GC, everyone complained about droughts.  Now, there haven't been any droughts, so people complain about games.  When there is no drought and tons of games people like, they say companies should have spread things out better, rather than being happy that they have games they like.  Let's face it.  It is impossible to satisfy the hardcore gamer.  Some of them are freaks.  Really.  She's right.  The thing is, most of these freaks don't even realize it, either, and I think Kaplan is trying to help them realize that they have problems.

I just think people will never be satisfied with anything in the gaming realm.  It's ridiculous.  

[Ceric]

New Super Mario Bros. has universal appeal so I think it would have come anyway.  Thats all I want to add.

[Ian Sane]

"Billy should have known better than to bring a dick to a knife fight."

I don't know about you but I bring my dick everywhere.

For the last few years Kaplan never seems to say the right thing.  There actually are gamers that are kinda freakish.  There are ones that look like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons and some of them do smell.  I don't think that's a good choice of words because it's really dumb to insult your fans.  Even though I think it's blantantly obvious that Nintendo doesn't care about hardcore gamers anymore they should still want our money if they can get it.  There's no advantage in losing customers which making fun of them risks doing.  It is however not nearly as bad as some of the stuff Krazy Kenny was saying about the PS3 or PSP.

I personally am more annoyed by the assumption that those who feel there is a drought are the really hardcore types.  I think ANYONE with some taste should find the current lineup to be lacking.  The third party games are crappy and Nintendo has not released very many gamer-games.  They're coming but they're not here yet.  I prefer the Cube's lineup from the approximate same time period.  At this point with the Cube I was bored BUT I'd say the lineup of games was better.  I don't think Nintendo understands the scope of what a "traditional gamer" is.  It doesn't just mean super hardcore gamers the are "freaks" and smell bad.  It means anyone who had an interest in games last gen before Nintendo decided to target non-gamers.  You've got this new audience that is buying Nintendo's products.  The remainder is the "traditional gamers" group.  This is the group Nintendo would be focusing on if they had never started this non-gamer stuff.  That isn't just a buncha nerds.  That's just people who like videogames.

Though I don't know how well we would do in Perrin's shoes.  A drought related question is pretty much the same as someone asking "why are you f*cking up?"  A drought is a f*ck-up.  Nintendo reps probably don't like being asked about f*ck-ups particularly when it was beyond their control.  I imagine it can be hard to spin that in a positive way.

[couchmonkey]

thatguy: I agree that Nintendo's "hardcore" game lineup is still pretty impressive, probably equal to previous generations, but I think we're beginning to witness a turning point:  Games like Brain Age are selling amazingly well and cost very little to develop, while games like Twighlight Princess are doing "just okay" in spite of their multi-million dollar budgets.  Will Nintendo really keep subsidizing Zelda and Metroid with its other products?

I don't think so.  In fact we're already seeing prototypes for the "new" Legend of Zelda - Four Swords and Phantom Hourglass are experimenting with multiplayer options and other stuff that some of us old-timers might consider heresy for a Zelda game.  I'm guessing more simplistic game design could also be on the agenda, a la New Super Mario Bros.  Maybe we'll even see a return to 2D Zelda games, who knows?

I'm not really against all this, I actually find it really exciting and I like some of Nintendo's new "non games", I'm just giving my opinion on where Nintendo is headed, and it seems like there's a lot of supporting evidence out there.

[Ceric]

NSMB was too simplistic and unvaried.  Though I wouldn't mind another 2D Zelda personally.  Also wouldn't mind another Four Swords while we are at it.

[Urkel]

Whenever someone brings up this talk of Nintendo ignoring/abandoning/betraying the hardcore gamers it always leaves me a bit confused. Mainly because nobody ever really bothers explaining what that actually means.

I mean, I don't see anybody suggesting that Nintendo is going to discontinue the Zelda series, or that they're going to make the next Fire Emblem a minigame compilation. And of course nobody has even dared to say that the hardcore are being neglected with the DS in quite some time. So help me out here, guys. What-- SPECIFICALLY -- are you worried Nintendo isn't doing/wont do for hardcore gamers that they used to? And, no, a drought after launch doesn't count as ignoring the hardcore since every console in history has had one.

[oohhboy]

There is a fair bit of diffence between the marketing speak and what they actually do. While it is true that there are more non-games coming out, they require only a fraction of a hardcore title's resources to make. The market to the hardcore has only really expanded with the normal population growth and resources used in making those games have grown accordingly.

The non-game market is expanding so fast because they are cheap and they sell tons of copies, which in turn fund even more non-games than the equivalent blockbuster for the same revenue.

The hardcore arn't shrinking. There are use as many of us now as there was last generation. It is just the proportion that is shrinking as the market grows out beyond what there was before it. As the matter of fact, the hardcore has much to gain from the non-game sector. Not all that profit from non-games are going back to non-games, some will reach the hardcore and improve them accordingly.

That being said, the hardcore are some of the most important players, especailly during launch. We are the ones that will buy up the launch product, we spread the initial hype, we form the very foundation of a console. Without us pushing developers to make bigger, better games, all anyone would get will be crappy TV games advertised showing horrible graphics and non-existant gameplay.

Yes, having more casual players will mean we will have more games like Horsez and Catz, but going hardcore only does no good. The 360 continues to be sluggish even though it caters to the hadrcore almost exclusively. The PS3 is even more hardcore by aiming for the absolute high end of the hardcore market with BIGGER, MORE POWERRRR ROOOAAARR HOHOHOHO.

We need each other, so fear not the casual.

[Maverick]

The funny thing is that I never thought of myself as a "hardcore gamer" until after this generation.  It's like all of the sudden since I enjoy single player games I'm part of the "old school" or something.

[couchmonkey]

Enjoying 50-hour single player games WILL make us part of the "old school"...just like arcadey games with lots of action and hardly any collecting became old school ten years ago thanks to companies like Square Enix, Rare, and even Nintendo.  Today they're represented by a small selection of niche titles like Viewtiful Joe, Alien Hominid and Ikaruga.

And it's not Nintendo's "fault" either.  Casual gaming has been growing on the Internet for a few years now - Nintendo is just the first major player to figure out how to translate those enthusiasts to home console owners.   It would have happened eventually anyway.

[Kairon]

As true as this is though, Perrin should've NEVER risked alienating her userbase.

[ShreddersDojo]

Quote
Originally posted by: darknight06
Well, the average person isn't bitching about a Zelda timeline neither.  In a way I agree with the assesment.  Most gamers DO go through games like water these days.  Finish one cup, go to the other.  It's like a game these days is only as good as it lasts before one "beats" it.

That's pretty much how I feel about 3D games these days..... I find most don't have allot of replay value due to the wandering around one does.  Heh, I was reading the Zelda 2 review on the front page, and how NWR says that towns and people being added was a good thing.  I hated that as a kid.  The townspeople always said useless stuff 99.5% of the game .

Angry Nintendo Nerd summoning: 'Why should I talk to you?  You never tell me anything useful!  Be Gone!'

The good games are the ones you feel you don't 'have to beat' but will pick up again and again just for fun.  Most 3D games just don't have that for me.  

[Kairon]

Yeah, I've come to appreciate certain less ambitious, more laid back, and simply entertaining games more nowadays. Like GUN, for example! I was surprised, but that was a game that was not uber complex, but relaxing AND entertaining to play!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, I've come to appreciate certain less ambitious, more laid back, and simply entertaining games more nowadays. Like GUN, for example! I was surprised, but that was a game that was not uber complex, but relaxing AND entertaining to play!

Ewww.

[Kairon]

Oh for gosh sakes. It was GTA Lite, with Zelda-esque controls, good voice acting and a nifty western theme. The world was small enough to be manageable, and you got a HORSE right off the bat!

... I swear sometimes I think people have forgotten how to relax and have fun.

[The Omen]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Oh for gosh sakes. It was GTA Lite, with Zelda-esque controls, good voice acting and a nifty western theme. The world was small enough to be manageable, and you got a HORSE right off the bat!

... I swear sometimes I think people have forgotten how to relax and have fun.

Gun is a fun game, so I agree with you.


And I'm so glad Perrin has flown the coup...I've hated her since I first read anything she shat out.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Oh for gosh sakes. It was GTA Lite, with Zelda-esque controls, good voice acting and a nifty western theme. The world was small enough to be manageable, and you got a HORSE right off the bat!

... I swear sometimes I think people have forgotten how to relax and have fun.

It was easy and had gameplay flaws that should have ended years ago (Like the awful invisible barriers it had).

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Oh for gosh sakes. It was GTA Lite, with Zelda-esque controls, good voice acting and a nifty western theme. The world was small enough to be manageable, and you got a HORSE right off the bat!

... I swear sometimes I think people have forgotten how to relax and have fun.

It was easy and had gameplay flaws that should have ended years ago (Like the awful invisible barriers it had).

WHO CARES?!?! It was FUN!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Oh for gosh sakes. It was GTA Lite, with Zelda-esque controls, good voice acting and a nifty western theme. The world was small enough to be manageable, and you got a HORSE right off the bat!

... I swear sometimes I think people have forgotten how to relax and have fun.

It was easy and had gameplay flaws that should have ended years ago (Like the awful invisible barriers it had).

WHO CARES?!?! It was FUN!

Well I wouldn't if the game around it was actually good.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, I've come to appreciate certain less ambitious, more laid back, and simply entertaining games more nowadays. Like GUN, for example! I was surprised, but that was a game that was not uber complex, but relaxing AND entertaining to play!

Ewww.

You know what OTHER game will be GTA - Lite? Harry Potter.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, I've come to appreciate certain less ambitious, more laid back, and simply entertaining games more nowadays. Like GUN, for example! I was surprised, but that was a game that was not uber complex, but relaxing AND entertaining to play!

Ewww.

You know what OTHER game will be GTA - Lite? Harry Potter.

We'll see, I hope it turns out good but the others haven't been anything special, they were fun but nothing to write home about.

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Oh for gosh sakes. It was GTA Lite, with Zelda-esque controls, good voice acting and a nifty western theme. The world was small enough to be manageable, and you got a HORSE right off the bat!

... I swear sometimes I think people have forgotten how to relax and have fun.

You like mediocre dishes because you refuse to patronize all restaurants but one, and that restaurant has a small selection.

[Kairon]

When you have to pay membership fees upwards of $400 to eat at these restaurants, you only eat at one.

[Gamebasher]

$400?

That is one insane amount for a membership.

I guess people think they are then "exclusive members" of some joint that happens to have a fancy name, which enough people have joined to make it respectable. Jeez, I could buy a lot of games for that amount, and still have money left for eating out!

By the way, I am sad over the loss of Perrin Kaplan. She is a sweet, smart and beautifull woman who gave Nintendo a good public image, despite her sometimes short responses to interviewers.

I think that Nintendo should be carefull what they do with their management policies in the future, so that they don´t just go, and make rash business decisions which badly affects trusted employees who loyally served them for many years. I know that can sound short-sighted, but I simply think that employees are as much the company as is the management for none can do without the other. If you just upend the lives of trusted employees, you commit a crime called betrayal. Call me what you like, I stand by what I say.

They should have talked this through with the sales staff first, and go for a milder solution in the form of a closer proximity relocation, and not just impose it directly on them with an one choice package, or it´s out-solution. It´s not morally sound to just give people the option of coming along to the new location, when you know how much they have where they live now. Friends, familiy, places, memories.

People can´t always just move hundreds of miles away to suit the management. They might as well have fired them on the spot. The way I see this move by Nintendo, is that they are moving into territory where they start to remind me of just any other company who don´t give a hoot about what employees thinks but more about what their own pocketbooks and investors will benefit from. BAD karma, if you ask me!

I mourn the loss of these greats at Nintendo, including George Harrison. It is obvious to me that Nintendo knows they´re pri... doing this to such good people, and are trying to tone it down to not lose face in the public. Too bad for them that the whole world now knows what they did to these fine people, so they could be whatever they´re trying to achieve with this audacious move. I definitely did not expect this to come from Nintendo. What is wrong with Redmond, anyway? I am shocked!