Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: tiamat1990
Wind Waker desgin...lol...Yeah I'm pretty much happy with his Twilight Princess design. He looked totally cool.

Ganon's wind waker design could have the ganon bounce where he has the deadly belly flop.

[Mashiro]

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Just slap her texture on Zelda and Nintendo can call it good then, not like they haven't done it before but hey Nintendo doesn't add stuff just to make people happy regardless of it being a clone or not.  

Seriously I hope we can all agree that each character should have a unique moveset, I was severely dissapointed when Ganondorf was a clone. So come on Nintendo, you have the time, don't give us lazy characters!

Just to clarify, what was done in Melee wasn't just slapping a texture on an existing character and calling it a day.

Nintendo did model the characters in Melee like Ganondorf, the only problem was they didn't give some of the bonus characters their own move set.

[LuigiHann]

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Originally posted by: anubis6789
I just do not think that uncursed Midna had enough screen time to be her own character.

If imp form Midna makes it in though I will be extremely sad.

You're overlooking the most obvious possibility given your own analysis:


Uncursed Midna as a transformation for a playable Imp Midna.

I'd still expect Midna as an Assist Trophy rather than a playable character, though. I think uncursed Midna would be too much of a spoiler for such a recent game, though. Sheik was only included because of how much time had passed between OoT and Melee, so it was more or less common knowledge by that point.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Just slap her texture on Zelda and Nintendo can call it good then, not like they haven't done it before but hey Nintendo doesn't add stuff just to make people happy regardless of it being a clone or not.  

Seriously I hope we can all agree that each character should have a unique moveset, I was severely dissapointed when Ganondorf was a clone. So come on Nintendo, you have the time, don't give us lazy characters!

Just to clarify, what was done in Melee wasn't just slapping a texture on an existing character and calling it a day.

Nintendo did model the characters in Melee like Ganondorf, the only problem was they didn't give some of the bonus characters their own move set.

Regardless it still is lazy and made for some really dissapointing special characters. I've HATED doing that even back in games like Tekken or Soul Calibur. Might as well leave them out and focus on what they have instead turning in a half made character.

[Mashiro]

Yeah it is somewhat lazy, but hey if they didn't make Kilik a Sung Mina type fighter in Soul Calibur I might not have even gotten into the series. So it isn't all that bad sometimes

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Just to clarify, what was done in Melee wasn't just slapping a texture on an existing character and calling it a day.

Nintendo did model the characters in Melee like Ganondorf, the only problem was they didn't give some of the bonus characters their own move set.

Sakurai and his team have a lot more time to work on Brawl than they did Melee, and not to mention he was even given his own studio location for the project. There is no doubt in my mind that the game will reek of polish, and details like the assist trophies will probably be just the tip of the iceberg.

It has been stated many times that not all of the characters will be back, and I think it's most likely that the clones will be the ones to get the axe... or updated into all new characters (as I suspect Ganondorf will be). I personally doubt we will see any new straight up clones this time around.  

[anubis6789]

To me there were only two disappointing clones in SSBM: Dr. Mario and Roy. There was not enough differences between them and the originals. Really though, all of the clone characters did have at least more uniqueness between them then the "Jacks" of Tekken, at least in my opinion anyway.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Just to clarify, what was done in Melee wasn't just slapping a texture on an existing character and calling it a day.

Nintendo did model the characters in Melee like Ganondorf, the only problem was they didn't give some of the bonus characters their own move set.

Sakurai and his team have a lot more time to work on Brawl than they did Melee, and not to mention he was even given his own studio location for the project. There is no doubt in my mind that the game will reek of polish, and details like the assist trophies will probably be just the tip of the iceberg.

It has been stated many times that not all of the characters will be back, and I think it's most likely that the clones will be the ones to get the axe... or updated into all new characters (as I suspect Ganondorf will be). I personally doubt we will see any new straight up clones this time around.

Oh I completely agree. I wasn't trying to insinuate that Brawl would lack polish or go the "clone" route again. I was just stating how calling something a texture swap is incorrect =)

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: anubis6789
To me there were only two disappointing clones in SSBM: Dr. Mario and Roy. There was not enough differences between them and the originals. Really though, all of the clone characters did have at least more uniqueness between them then the "Jacks" of Tekken, at least in my opinion anyway.

I concur, although Roy has one of the larger followings for the clones. I personally didn't care much for Young Link either (partly because, like Dr. Mario, it was actually the same character) as, despite the fact that he was different from his adult form, there didn't seem to be enough balance to compensate all the stuff he lost for the speed advantage he had.

I'm probably one of the few people who really liked Pichu though, however I couldn't help but fall into the "one trick pony routine" of trying to exploit it's fully charged skull bash.  

[Mashiro]

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I'm probably one of the few people who really liked Pichu though, however I couldn't help but fall into the "one trick pony routine" of trying to exploit it's fully charged skull bash.

Lol I fall into that category. I love messing around and using Pichu on occasions because the skull bash move is just awesome (when it hits).

Also Pichu has two different taunts that just burst with cuteness and make it all the more fun to just run from players and mock them. Oh and when he fires the Super Scope weapon he looks like he's humping it which is just added hilarity.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

And here I get attacked when I say Melee felt rushed in places.

[NWR_pap64]

Dr. Mario was definitely the worst clone in Melee. I mean, the only reason he was included was because the team wanted to have his theme song in the game! Not to mention we technically had two Mario clones already (Luigi is a Mario clone, even though he was more unique in Melee).

Speaking of Luigi, if he's in Brawl I hope he's even more unique. I mean, he had Luigi's Mansion under his belt. Some of his new attacks could included using the vacuum cleaner and flashlight,

There's no excuse for him to be Mario's clone character once more.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: pap64
Dr. Mario was definitely the worst clone in Melee. I mean, the only reason he was included was because the team wanted to have his theme song in the game! Not to mention we technically had two Mario clones already (Luigi is a Mario clone, even though he was more unique in Melee).

Speaking of Luigi, if he's in Brawl I hope he's even more unique. I mean, he had Luigi's Mansion under his belt. Some of his new attacks could included using the vacuum cleaner and flashlight,

There's no excuse for him to be Mario's clone character once more.

Maybe him and Godzilla could team up.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
And here I get attacked when I say Melee felt rushed in places.

Only when used to state its inferiority... Sakurai didn't have enough time to do everything he wanted, that's more than clear. A number of things had to be cut (Fire Emblem stage, Ditto, etc), this is all well known. Does the game, overall, give off the sense of a rushed product? Hardly. I would call anyone a liar who could state it as thus.

Features from the greatest games are trimmed all the time, though. Goldeneye has a regular shopping list of stuff that couldn't make it into release (Cradle was so awesome as a multiplayer stage too...), it happens. Brawl has been given a very generous development window, though, and the amount of support from the entire industry is really a phenomenon in itself as the composer list alone is a "whose who" in the industry. I really can't wait to see what Sakurai does with the game, and, as I said before, expect a level of polish and attention to detail that many games simply can't afford to do these days.

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Originally posted by: pap64
Speaking of Luigi, if he's in Brawl I hope he's even more unique. I mean, he had Luigi's Mansion under his belt. Some of his new attacks could included using the vacuum cleaner and flashlight,

There's no excuse for him to be Mario's clone character once more.

Well, at the very least, I think we can expect a totally different Final smash attack out of him.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
And here I get attacked when I say Melee felt rushed in places.

Only when used to state its inferiority... Sakurai didn't have enough time to do everything he wanted, that's more than clear. A number of things had to be cut (Fire Emblem stage, Ditto, etc), this is all well known. Does the game, overall, give off the sense of a rushed product? Hardly. I would call anyone a liar who could state it as thus.

Features from the greatest games are trimmed all the time, though. Goldeneye has a regular shopping list of stuff that couldn't make it into release (Cradle was so awesome as a multiplayer stage too...), it happens. Brawl has been given a very generous development window, though, and the amount of support from the entire industry is really a phenomenon in itself as the composer list alone is a "whose who" in the industry. I really can't wait to see what Sakurai does with the game, and, as I said before, expect a level of polish and attention to detail that many games simply can't afford to do these days.

Well I can say it felt rushed at least when I see recycled move sets, that is a sign of things being put out on the market and it gives a sense, even if it minor, of something that is not complete. I'll say the same thing about any fighting game (or any other genre) where I see characters sharing the same abilities or movesets, which give me a sense of a product being pushed out the door before everything could be fully implemented or at the very least completing what is there. Hopefully Brawl does not have the same problem and they aren't trying to do too much to the point where they have to cut corners on some of the characters. Is it too much to ask that each character is unique?

Maybe I"m mistaken but wasn't Melee the start of Nintendo not delaying games as much? Personally I think that contributed to the unpolished nature of games like Zelda: Wind Waker and SMS.

[Mashiro]

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And here I get attacked when I say Melee felt rushed in places.

To be fair that past discussion wasn't over Melee feeling rushed in places and you know it

[Mashiro]

Double post server lag FTL.

[anubis6789]

I honestly think they should reclone-ify Luigi in Brawl, or at least give him the cape swipe, with more lateral movement, instead of the stupid Green missile move. If there was one clue that SSBM was rushed, it was that move. Where did it come from and why was Luigi doing it. Now if they were to keep the move I would rather Luigi change into the frog suite while charging, and unleashing the move; to me that would make much more sense within the scope of the game then him just flying across the screen for no real reason.

[Adrock]

1. I can see Midna as an Assist Trophy more so than a selectable character.

2. I liked Ganondorf's design in Twilight Princess, except this goofy hair and freakishly small legs. Unless, I was seeing things, the back of his head was entirely bald. I wouldn't mind his Wind Waker robes as long as he loses 50 lbs.

3. In Melee, Luigi  > Mario... but I would like Luigi to be more unique.

Ok, well, I'll be back after today's update.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: anubis6789
I honestly think they should reclone-ify Luigi in Brawl, or at least give him the cape swipe, with more lateral movement, instead of the stupid Green missile move. If there was one clue that SSBM was rushed, it was that move. Where did it come from and why was Luigi doing it. Now if they were to keep the move I would rather Luigi change into the frog suite while charging, and unleashing the move; to me that would make much more sense within the scope of the game then him just flying across the screen for no real reason.

I think Luigi's special move should be sucking up players with his vacuum and shooting them out.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I can say it felt rushed at least when I see recycled move sets, that is a sign of things being rushed. I'll say the same thing about any fighting game (or another genre) where I see characters sharing the same abilities or movesets, that gives me a sense of a product being rushed before everything could be fully implemented. Hopefully Brawl does not have the same problem and they aren't trying to do too much to the point where they have to cut corners on some of the characters. Is it too much to ask that each character is unique?

People have different views on the clones. If you asked me, directly, would I rather see the clones included or not in Melee, my answer would be a resounding yes. I loved the unique aspects of Ganondorf, Falco and Pichu. The roster was large enough where I didn't feel "cheated" in the least by their inclusion, unlike Mecha-King Ghidorah, Godzilla 2000 and Kiryu in G: DAMM for the Gamecube/Xbox which made that roster seem really restrictive on account of it.

I would love a more unique approach to them, but I have also grown fairly attached to their play styles. I will be sad, for example, if a "heavy"-like Captain Falcon character is not included, as I loved playing as the Melee Ganondorf, or a character that could leap (and sink) like Falco could.

[anubis6789]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: anubis6789
I honestly think they should reclone-ify Luigi in Brawl, or at least give him the cape swipe, with more lateral movement, instead of the stupid Green missile move. If there was one clue that SSBM was rushed, it was that move. Where did it come from and why was Luigi doing it. Now if they were to keep the move I would rather Luigi change into the frog suite while charging, and unleashing the move; to me that would make much more sense within the scope of the game then him just flying across the screen for no real reason.

I think Luigi's special move should be sucking up players with his vacuum and shooting them out.

That would be fine as well, I just do not like the Green Missile, the move made no sense for Luigi, it just felt tacked on. Considering the depth of stuff they could have dug up from the Mario Universe that would have probably had the same effect, it just felt like they did not even try.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I can say it felt rushed at least when I see recycled move sets, that is a sign of things being rushed. I'll say the same thing about any fighting game (or another genre) where I see characters sharing the same abilities or movesets, that gives me a sense of a product being rushed before everything could be fully implemented. Hopefully Brawl does not have the same problem and they aren't trying to do too much to the point where they have to cut corners on some of the characters. Is it too much to ask that each character is unique?

People have different views on the clones. If you asked me, directly, would I rather see the clones included or not in Melee, my answer would be a resounding yes. I loved the unique aspects of Ganondorf, Falco and Pichu. The roster was large enough where I didn't feel "cheated" in the least by their inclusion, unlike Mecha-King Ghidorah, Godzilla 2000 and Kiryu in G: DAMM for the Gamecube/Xbox which made that roster seem really restrictive on account of it.

I would love a more unique approach to them, but I have also grown fairly attached to their play styles. I will be sad, for example, if a "heavy"-like Captain Falcon character is not included, as I loved playing as the Melee Ganondorf, or a character that could leap (and sink) like Falco could.

My answer would be a resounding NO, I'd rather they focus on other aspects of the game then throwing together a model and slapping an already created moveset on it, calling it a day. There is no excuse for a clone IMO, if you want different looks give a character a new costume but don't try to drive up your character list by creating a character that is nothing more than something pretty to look at yet are hollow inside.

Ganondorf was the worse offender since he is an all powerful wizard, but hey don't care about that,  we need make people happy so lets give him an F-Zero drivers moveset, people will eat it up! You want to butcher a crappy character that no one cares about, I could live with it but to butcher a character that has so much potential is wrong. Ganondorf should have had his own unique personality shown through his moveset, he deserved that much.  

[Mashiro]

Yeah I agree with your line of thought Arbok.

The Melee character roster was such a large size already I didn't feel cheated by the clone move sets and what not.

Would it have been cool if they gave them their own move sets? Yes of course.

Did it kill the game to have clones? No.

Was it lazy? Yeah.

Would I have shot myself if all I had to play on Gamecube was Luigis mansion for months on end while they gave the characters a more unique move set? Yes. lol

Edit: does it really matter at this point anyway? lol Melee was a great game on the Cube. It's still a greatly fun game to play and Brawl is shaping up to be the be all end all of Smash games.

[anubis6789]

Um... so has anyone seen those higher contrast pictures of Yoshi, ZSS, DK, and Ike falling into the third level of the castle siege level? The ones that seem to show that the third level might be a cavernous lava reef(or would that be magma reef since it is not on the surface?).