Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread

[Mashiro]

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That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more

Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).  

Edit: it doesn't matter that Nintendo had a number of solid characters in the games, many with a unique move pool and plus and minus traits. it doesn't matter that they gave us a number of stages to fight on, from normal stages to race tracks to a rotating rock that is smashed by a giant beast.

Yeah Melee was so basic and lame all it did was rely on fans wet dreams.

No substance what so ever.

/sarcasim

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
GP . . . you're defending PowerStone 2 as if it was tekken or soul calibur and it's really funny lol.

WHere did I do that? I said Power Stone 2 is a unique fighter hybrid, and IMO one of the most unique to ever grace consoles. All I've been stating is that you are exagerrating Smash Bros. strengths, and not giving PS2 a fair shake in comparison. You are the one that said that PS2 required hardly any skill and indicated Smash Brothers does.

Smash does require more skill. Again you can't strip down the game (or Meta game as arbok put it) in PS2 and get the same experience you get in Melee. You just don't.

You've been making those comparisons in my said quote with saying how "easy" Melee is (a 2 year old can learn all the combos) yet Power Stone is just as easy.

I don't believe I denied how accessible and limited the move set was in Power Stone 2 did I? Also that comparison with stripping the game is quite ridiculous actually, you could say that about any game out there, Power Stone 2 was focused on one aspect of the game (1 on 1 could be quite strategic as well, heck I played most of my games that way!), while Smash Brothers Melee was seemingly designed as game that was to please everyone, which I have always been a little leery about. Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way). Power Stone 2 was a fighter/3D plat former with destructible environments while Smash followed more PS1 which was leaned more to fighter. What I am trying to say is that Power Stone 2 had a different focus and it is completely unfair to harpoon the potential strategy which was designed around its unique take on the fighting genre. Power Stone 2 has just as much strategy as Smash Brothers, it just goes about it differently.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
...yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more.

Melee would have been incredibly fun, even if all of the characters looked like the polygon team with different hats. The game dynamic is what makes it so great. Crossovers aren't new, but when a great one like Smash Bros or the Capcom Versus series comes along, it clicks. Of course, all of these franchises have things to gain from the source material, but that won't propel them to be as widely accepted as either is without fantastic gameplay to back it up.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
In regards to the fans, it matters because a game that does not sell well and is pretty much overlooked (as the Dreamcast as a whole was) will not be featured at tournaments.

That never stopped Street Fighter III, which is hugely popular at tournaments.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more

Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).

At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more

Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).

At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.

Yeah and in doing so they raped what made the series good.

Good work Capcom!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
...yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more.

Melee would have been incredibly fun, even if all of the characters looked like the polygon team with different hats. The game dynamic is what makes it so great. Crossovers aren't new, but when a great one like Smash Bros or the Capcom Versus series comes along, it clicks. Of course, all of these franchises have things to gain from the source material, but that won't propel them to be as widely accepted as either is without fantastic gameplay to back it up.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
In regards to the fans, it matters because a game that does not sell well and is pretty much overlooked (as the Dreamcast as a whole was) will not be featured at tournaments.

That never stopped Street Fighter III, which is hugely popular at tournaments.

Um that is a bad example as well, the Street Fighter series has had an established name for YEARS. Power Stone never had a prayer to get to that point.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way).

Oh COME ON!

That's it, I'm calling it a night before this gets any worse.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more

Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).

At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.

Yeah and in doing so they raped what made the series good.

Good work Capcom!

Now that is really debatable, especially since Power Stone 2 was much better received by most except for someone named Mashiro and his group of friends.

[Mashiro]

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I don't believe I denied how accessible and limited the move set was in Power Stone 2 did I?

You're faulting a series like Melee for being easy but you're series is just as easy if not easier.

You're contradicting yourself.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more

Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).

At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.

Yeah and in doing so they raped what made the series good.

Good work Capcom!

Now that is really debatable, especially since Power Stone 2 was much better received by most except for someone named Mashiro and his group of friends.

And on the flip side we have GP who says Melee is nothing more than a fan boys over hyped wet dream where as many in the industry regard it as one of the best games created.

See what I did there?

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way).

Oh COME ON!

That's it, I'm calling it a night before this gets any worse.

It is a bandage, you can think whatever you want but the ability to turn stuff off is a bandage around designing a game that can grab hold of everyone. It would be like Super Mario 64 allowing you to turn off goombas or Soul Calibur allowing you to turn off movesets. It shows that development was not focused (personally I think Melee was rushed) and in order to accomidate they allow the user to eliminate gameplay related items, which works for some stages (smaller) and doesn't work for larger ones unless you like boring fights.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more

Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).

At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.

Yeah and in doing so they raped what made the series good.

Good work Capcom!

Now that is really debatable, especially since Power Stone 2 was much better received by most except for someone named Mashiro and his group of friends.

And on the flip side we have GP who says Melee is nothing more than a fan boys over hyped wet dream where as many in the industry regard it as one of the best games created.

See what I did there?

Yeah you proved my point about Nintendo fans because they are about the only ones that say it is one of the best games ever created. Most agree with me because I say it is a great game but not one of the best at an 8.5/10.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way).

Oh COME ON!

That's it, I'm calling it a night before this gets any worse.

It is a bandage, you can think whatever you want but the ability to turn stuff off is a bandage around designing a game that can grab hold of everyone. It would be like Super Mario 64 allowing you to turn off goombas or Soul Calibur allowing you to turn off movesets.

We're approaching Ian levels of insanity here, seriously people!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way).

Oh COME ON!

That's it, I'm calling it a night before this gets any worse.

It is a bandage, you can think whatever you want but the ability to turn stuff off is a bandage around designing a game that can grab hold of everyone. It would be like Super Mario 64 allowing you to turn off goombas or Soul Calibur allowing you to turn off movesets.

We're approaching Ian levels of insanity here, seriously people!

Yeah like people replying with something pointless and not trying to disprove it.

[Bill Aurion]

Yaaaay, I was thinking from since both "Fire Emblem stages" were revealed that they could possibly be from the same stage (since I couldn't see them adding a second fairly simple Fire Emblem stage), so I'm glad that's the case...I'm personally hoping for an underground waterfall/river thing...

Oh!  They've added soldiers to the throne room, I see...Nice touch...

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Yaaaay, I was thinking from since both "Fire Emblem stages" were revealed that they could possibly be from the same stage (since I couldn't see them adding a second fairly simple Fire Emblem stage), so I'm glad that's the case...I'm personally hoping for an underground waterfall/river thing...

Oh!  They've added soldiers to the throne room, I see...Nice touch...

You know that would be really cool, I love waterfalls! Maybe have it interact with the environment.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Yeah like people replying with something pointless and not trying to disprove it.

You made a blanket condemnation. Only the Sith deal in absolutes.  

[Kairon]

Haven't we seen this stage before? Those statues look familiar... from a very early screenshot perhaps?

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
Haven't we seen this stage before? Those statues look familiar... from a very early screenshot perhaps?

It sounds like we only seen part of the stage in earlier screenshots.

[Mashiro]

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Yeah like people replying with something pointless and not trying to disprove it.

Disprove what?

You said: "Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in"

Well when I see a 2 year old master Melee or Brawl I'll letcha know.

Also PS2 isn't a hard fighter ether which you said. So you're faulting Melee for not being hard but not faulting PS2. Double standards.

You said: "not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has."

Lots of games have "tiers" in them that are in tournaments: Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, etc etc.

You said: the movesets are severely limited.

I say, so are power stones. Again double standards. Melee sucks for this reason but Power Stone doesn't.

You said: Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power.

Anyone who plays the game will disagree with you on that. Any skilled player can beat a noob regardless of items.


In any case I just disproved your double standards. Anywho moving along . . .

[Kairon]

So uh... we need the next update to reveal a big honkin' heart piece. Everyone likes a heart, right? No controversy there, it's pure love! Right guys? Right?

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Yeah like people replying with something pointless and not trying to disprove it.

Disprove what?

You said: "Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in"

Well when I see a 2 year old master Melee or Brawl I'll letcha know.

Also PS2 isn't a hard fighter ether which you said. So you're faulting Melee for not being hard but not faulting PS2. Double standards.

You said: "not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has."

Lots of games have "tiers" in them that are in tournaments: Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, etc etc.

You said: the movesets are severely limited.

I say, so are power stones. Again double standards. Melee sucks for this reason but Power Stone doesn't.

You said: Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power.

Anyone who plays the game will disagree with you on that. Any skilled player can beat a noob regardless of items.


In any case I just disproved your double standards. Anywho moving along . . .

I hate to be rude but read what I said. What does this quote sound like?

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Yeah I'll admit PS2 is not a complex fighter but the hectic and well designed stages made for a unque experience every time you went into it, and provided countless hours of fun which is saying alot because there were so few of them.

[Mashiro]

But . . . that doesn't change the fact that you said Melee was easy and that a 2 year old could master it. Hence that being a negative.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
But . . . that doesn't change the fact that you said Melee was easy and that a 2 year old could master it. Hence that being a negative.

When did I say a 2 year old could master it? I said a two year old could learn the special moves and combos, didn't say he'd be able to master any of it. Heck if you want I'll say a 2 year old could learn the moves and combos in PS2 too, but they couldn't master that either.  Hey I'll go a step further and I'll say the great aspects about BOTH PS2 and Smash Brothers Brawl is that they are easy for anyone to get into and have fun with.

[Mashiro]

You're backtracking and thinking about what you're saying now see that's good

All I'm saying is original you made the simplistic nature of the game (easy to learn hard to master) a negative and indicated it was so easy a 2 year old could "learn" all the combos.

Edit: and your edit makes even more sense. See that's great.