Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread

[Mashiro]

Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.

Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that Nintendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless. It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there, it is like Nintendo threw a bunch of ideas in a blender and called it good. The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games so they through in whatever idea they had and called it good.

I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is). Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.

Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that NIntendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless.

Because games like Soul Calibur don't have tiers for characters right?

Seriously, Melee might not be the most in-depth fighting in the world but it is far better than the Powerstone series.

[Adrock]

I also thought of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3.... I never played the Power Stone series. You know why? Because I keep getting outbid on ebay.....

I wonder if you can attack while falling to lower levels.

I think Ike will be an original character. Marth, because he's Marth, will probably be back. Roy may be back because people liked him in Melee. The only reason I'd doubt it is because his only purpose in Melee was to promote The Sword of Seals. If he came back as a costume, that would be a fair trade in my opinion.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.

Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that NIntendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless.

Because games like Soul Calibur don't have tiers for characters right?

Seriously, Melee might not be the most in-depth fighting in the world but it is far better than the Powerstone series.

Why don't you tell me exactly why it is such a great a game? For the most part the stage designs are so simple even I could design them (which is pretty sad actually), and the movesets are severely limited. Yeah it has items, but so did PowerStone which I believe came out BEFORE Smash Brothers, which could actually make Smash Brothers more of a clone of Power Stone! Yeah I'll admit PS2 is not a complex fighter but the hectic and well designed stages made for a unque experience every time you went into it, and provided countless hours of fun which is saying alot because there were so few of them. Not to mention it still remains one of the most unique and daring fighting games released. It took strategy to a whole new level when you used stuff around you in order to succeed in a battle, whether that was using the deadly obstacles, hiding behind various items, utilizing vehicles, in addition to utilizing each fighters unique special skills.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
I also thought of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3.... I never played the Power Stone series. You know why? Because I keep getting outbid on ebay.....

I wonder if you can attack while falling to lower levels.

I think Ike will be an original character. Marth, because he's Marth, will probably be back. Roy may be back because people liked him in Melee. The only reason I'd doubt it is because his only purpose in Melee was to promote The Sword of Seals. If he came back as a costume, that would be a fair trade in my opinion.

I believe you could attack in Power Stone 2 when falling to new levels, I do hope they include that in Smash Brothers, could make for some crazy fun fights.

[Mashiro]

Because you edited I'll reply to your edit:

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It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there, it is like Nintendo threw a bunch of ideas in a blender and called it good. The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games so they through in whatever idea they had and called it good.

I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is). Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.

Wow I can't believe how much you dig into the Smash series . . . anyway.

Also, Power Stone is not a deep fighter . . . the combos are just as easy to master as anything in Smash.

Power Stone 2 IS NOT a deep fighter. Sorry but it's not. Smash has random elements to it but so did Power Stone 1. The difference between Power Stone 1 and 2 is that Power Stone 1 focused on 1v1 battles in stages that gave elements to you which you could use to your advantage. At times depending on the character (super strong and see a poll? you can lift it and smash your opponent, for example). It really allowed the hectic nature of the random weapons and stage elements to work well in a fighter.

Power Stone 2 completely went overboard on stages that were just crazy. Yeah it was fun for a 4v4 complete crazy brawl but there was no real finesse to it. The stages were too out there to have any form of consistency and while Smash may have random elements it still has some elements that remain more constant and not crazy.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Because you edited I'll reply to your edit:

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It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there, it is like Nintendo threw a bunch of ideas in a blender and called it good. The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games so they through in whatever idea they had and called it good.

I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is). Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.

Wow I can't believe how much you dig into the Smash series . . . anyway.

Also, Power Stone is not a deep fighter . . . the combos are just as easy to master as anything in Smash.

Power Stone 2 IS NOT a deep fighter. Sorry but it's not. Smash has random elements to it but so did Power Stone 1. The difference between Power Stone 1 and 2 is that Power Stone 1 focused on 1v1 battles in stages that gave elements to you which you could use to your advantage. At times depending on the character (super strong and see a poll? you can lift it and smash your opponent, for example). It really allowed the hectic nature of the random weapons and stage elements to work well in a fighter.

Power Stone 2 completely went overboard on stages that were just crazy. Yeah it was fun for a 4v4 complete crazy brawl but there was no real finesse to it. The stages were too out there to have any form of consistency and while Smash may have random elements it still has some elements that remain more constant and not crazy.

Magic Wands=consistency. Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power.  Not to say that is a bad thing (Heck I love Mario Kart) but to not admit that is silly. Smash Brothers got just as if not more crazy than PS2 especially in the smaller stages which turn into dumb but fun brawl fests between four people. At least PS2 provided places to give you cover so you were never really trapped to an all out brawl, in fact those who took their time in that game and plotted out their attack would more than likely win if they used their surroundings.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.

Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that NIntendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless.

Because games like Soul Calibur don't have tiers for characters right?

Seriously, Melee might not be the most in-depth fighting in the world but it is far better than the Powerstone series.

Why don't you tell me exactly why it is such a great a game? For the most part the stage designs are so simple even I could design them (which is pretty sad actually), and the movesets are severely limited. Yeah it has items, but so did PowerStone which I believe came out BEFORE Smash Brothers, which could actually make Smash Brothers more of a clone of Power Stone! Yeah I'll admit PS2 is not a complex fighter but the hectic and well designed stages made for a unque experience every time you went into it, and provided countless hours of fun which is saying alot because there were so few of them.

GP you are completely contradicting. The move sets in Melee are limited? What is powerstones move sets? Come on GP Power Stone has just as little move sets per character (probably less).

Also why are you arguing Smash being a "clone" of Power Stone? What does that have to do with anything?

So without further a due here is why smash melee is a great game:

1) It is a great party game. It is simple enough for anyone to pick up and have a good time with.
2) It is a great competitive game. You can have epic competitive battles in a 1v1 environment or go for the more traditional 4v4 battles.
3) There are tons of modes which allow you to choose different ways in which you like to play.
4) There are a variety of stages that provide a fun battle ground to play on.
5) Great musical score to accompany the fighting.
6) Great visuals, for being one of the first games to come out on Cube it is still a good looking game.
7) Multiple characters with different and unique move sets that appeal to just about everyones tastes.

Just to name a few reasons.

[Arbok]

Man, I'm kicking myself for even mentioning Smash Bros and GoldenPhoenix in the same setence now...

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
...not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has.

The tiers are constantly updated. People find new strategies, the meta game that is the tournament scene evolves. Samus was recently deemed into a higher tier, so was Marth, Jigglypuff and the Ice Climbers. This will all change though as strategies evolve to counter what's most overused, and the cycle will continue.

Let's also not ignore the fact that Melee has the same number of characters, currently, in the higher tiers than the entire roster for PS2.

Also, again, this is for the 1-on-1 item-less metagame, and going outside of that shifts the tiers completely.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless.

Point taken, although oddly enough Bowser is no longer in the lowest tier as strategies have changed. Kirby, Pichu and Mewtwo are currently placed there (all four of which need help, though).

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there...

Some don't like that, some like that about it. I personally like both aspects. I like playing the larger levels, with all items turned on with the highest frequency, and sometimes I like one-on-one matches on Final Destination... the options let me play both ways, and many in between, which gives it endless replay value for me.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games...

My GOD! You don't say! Well my view is totally changed about it now... forget everything I said about it prior.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is).

Unlike the huge tournaments established for Power Stone 2, which have dis... oh wait...

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.

Where is Smash_Brothers. Basically, it's not Street Fighter. Isn't trying to be. I didn't realize a game having easy to wield controls makes it for "two year olds" either.

Man, you really went off the cuff about this GoldenPhoenix...

[Mashiro]

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Magic Wands=consistency. Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power. Not to say that is a bad thing (Heck I love Mario Kart) but to not admit that is silly. Smash Brothers got just as if not more crazy than PS2 especially in the smaller stages which turn into dumb but fun brawl fests between four people. At least PS2 provided places to give you cover so you were never really trapped to an all out brawl, in fact those who took their time in that game and plotted out their attack would more than likely win if they used their surroundings.

You're not reading what I'm saying and getting way too defensive over your Power Stone 2 lol.

I said "Smash may have random elements it still has some elements that remain more constant and not crazy." Power Stone 2 is crazy all the time.

Also, any skilled player can avoid an item in Smash that may "shift" the battle for you. Even the Super Hammer. You can avoid it or can actually hit the player wielding it.

There is no blue turtle shell in Smash =P

[GoldenPhoenix]

Power Stone 2 never had the following Smash Brothers had even if it is mainly Nintendo fans. Also Arbok thanks for taking my quote out of context, I was referring to the learning of combos and moves in Smash Brothers, not the whole game. Not sure what you mean off the cuff, because my points regarding Power Stone 2 have yet to be refuted. Heck I might as well say those that defend Smash Brothers are going off the cuff too anytime their overrated baby gets hit.

Oh yeah Mashiro you obviously don't know much about PS2 because the stages get VERY consistent in the end where strategy is key to winning.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Arbok


Where is Smash_Brothers. Basically, it's not Street Fighter. Isn't trying to be. I didn't realize a game having easy to wield controls makes it for "two year olds" either.

Yeah it is a clone of Power Stone 2 I already answered that.

[Mashiro]

GP . . . you're defending PowerStone 2 as if it was tekken or soul calibur and it's really funny lol.

[Mashiro]

And because I double posted, no Smash isn't a clone of power stone 2, it's actually fun for everyone.

ZING!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Magic Wands=consistency. Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power. Not to say that is a bad thing (Heck I love Mario Kart) but to not admit that is silly. Smash Brothers got just as if not more crazy than PS2 especially in the smaller stages which turn into dumb but fun brawl fests between four people. At least PS2 provided places to give you cover so you were never really trapped to an all out brawl, in fact those who took their time in that game and plotted out their attack would more than likely win if they used their surroundings.

You're not reading what I'm saying and getting way too defensive over your Power Stone 2 lol.

I said "Smash may have random elements it still has some elements that remain more constant and not crazy." Power Stone 2 is crazy all the time.

Also, any skilled player can avoid an item in Smash that may "shift" the battle for you. Even the Super Hammer. You can avoid it or can actually hit the player wielding it.

There is no blue turtle shell in Smash =P

In smaller stages items can really shift the balance in Smash Bros, you have to agree with that (I really hate the small stages too, I preferred the larger ones like Hyrule Castle). Guess what in PS2 you can avoid items as well if you have the skills.

[Adrock]

Since we're talking about other games, I just want to say that I recently bought NBA Street Vol. 3 on Gamecube. It's a good arcade basketball game, but really, nothing beats Princess Peach 360 dunking on Yao Ming. Also, the Nintendo All-stars intro is quite possibly the best cut-scene ever into any videogame ever made or that will ever be made. What the hell were Nintendo and Square-Enix thinking with Mario Hoops 3-on-3? It should have been made like Vol. 3, but with power-ups, no annoying announcer, and 3000% more Peach.

Ok, resume Power Stone talk.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
GP . . . you're defending PowerStone 2 as if it was tekken or soul calibur and it's really funny lol.

WHere did I do that? I said Power Stone 2 is a unique fighter hybrid, and IMO one of the most unique to ever grace consoles. All I've been stating is that you are exagerrating Smash Bros. strengths, and not giving PS2 a fair shake in comparison. You are the one that said that PS2 required hardly any skill and indicated Smash Brothers does.

[Mashiro]

I never complained about the items in Power Stone 2 did I? The stages and overall balance towards it being a 4v4 fighter is what makes it more of a "hectic" fighter. You can't strip down Power Stone 2 and get the depth out of it if you did the same with Melee.

Smaller stages make some items more effective but it doesn't change much if you know your character well.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Text1) It is a great party game. It is simple enough for anyone to pick up and have a good time with.
2) It is a great competitive game. You can have epic competitive battles in a 1v1 environment or go for the more traditional 4v4 battles.
3) There are tons of modes which allow you to choose different ways in which you like to play.
4) There are a variety of stages that provide a fun battle ground to play on.
5) Great musical score to accompany the fighting.
6) Great visuals, for being one of the first games to come out on Cube it is still a good looking game.
7) Multiple characters with different and unique move sets that appeal to just about everyones tastes.

It is kind of funny besides 3 Power Stone 2 has (or had in the case of the visuals) all of those, except for variety of stages you get a ton of variety in a stage. Power Stone 2 had a great cast as well which was fun to play as, while I felt Smash Brothers was trying too hard to include tons of characters, to the point where some suffered or were flat out clones.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
GP . . . you're defending PowerStone 2 as if it was tekken or soul calibur and it's really funny lol.

WHere did I do that? I said Power Stone 2 is a unique fighter hybrid, and IMO one of the most unique to ever grace consoles. All I've been stating is that you are exagerrating Smash Bros. strengths, and not giving PS2 a fair shake in comparison. You are the one that said that PS2 required hardly any skill and indicated Smash Brothers does.

Smash does require more skill. Again you can't strip down the game (or Meta game as arbok put it) in PS2 and get the same experience you get in Melee. You just don't.

You've been making those comparisons in my said quote with saying how "easy" Melee is (a 2 year old can learn all the combos) yet Power Stone is just as easy.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Power Stone 2 never had the following Smash Brothers had even if it is mainly Nintendo fans.

What does it matter where the fans come from?

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Also Arbok thanks for taking my quote out of context, I was referring to the learning of combos and moves in Smash Brothers, not the whole game.

That's part of the controls, which is what I quoted and responded to.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Not sure what you mean off the cuff...

It was in reference to the point when your conversation became less about comparing the merits of the two games, and more in trying to simply dismiss Smash Bros as a "fanboi's wet dream".

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
I never complained about the items in Power Stone 2 did I? The stages and overall balance towards it being a 4v4 fighter is what makes it more of a "hectic" fighter. You can't strip down Power Stone 2 and get the depth out of it if you did the same with Melee.

Smaller stages make some items more effective but it doesn't change much if you know your character well.

Unless you have Jigglypuff vs Fox and fox gets an item!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Power Stone 2 never had the following Smash Brothers had even if it is mainly Nintendo fans.

What does it matter where the fans come from?

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Also Arbok thanks for taking my quote out of context, I was referring to the learning of combos and moves in Smash Brothers, not the whole game.

That's part of the controls, which is what I quoted and responded to.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Not sure what you mean off the cuff...

It was in reference to the point when your conversation became less about comparing the merits of the two games, and more in trying to simply dismiss Smash Bros as a "fanboi's wet dream".

That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more. In regards to the fans, it matters because a game that does not sell well and is pretty much overlooked (as the Dreamcast as a whole was) will not be featured at tournaments.

To sum up my feelings of Melee I would give the game a 8.5/10. Power Stone 2 a 9.5 out of 10.

[Kairon]

*shakes heads*

It takes all sorts...