Author Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread (Read 457843 times)

Ceric · « **Reply #825 on:** July 09, 2007, 01:36:08 AM »

I have to agree. I don't really like automatic attack in a fighting game. It makes me feel like I'm controlling a robot. I can see why they did it but they could have gotten much the same results by going to timed button presses like PSO. I find those to be more strategic and involving because you need to learn the patterns of the characters to be effective.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #826 on:** July 09, 2007, 03:03:33 AM »

I see mostly good in this decision...but could bring me see some bad later.

The good is that it really doesn't change the gameplay that much. Holding a button and rapidly pressing a button for a combo is going to be about the same speed. Specially when you realize you can tap a button faster than the animation can play usually.

This will not hurt the balance of the game, or take skill away from the game. BUT, it will make the game more accessable to all controller types, all types of gamers (non, advanced, novice) and potentially open the game to some combo options.

Now you can potentially begin a standard combo, and then move forward, down, up, back to tack on a strong attack, and just flick to add a Smash. This WILL make the battle system easier, but we are talking about a 4 player game that is not about defeating an enemy by depleting their health. It is a game about area control, and fighting several opponents knocking them off the stage.

I don't think this inclusion is anything like the C-Stick Smash either. That mechanic allowed for you to pull off Smash attacks too quickly and easily. Making it harder for those that don't use that method to get their Smash Attacks in...which is the driving mechanic of the game. Standard combos and attacks are not the driving element of the game, only the Smash attacks are in my opinion, and I hope since they include this simplier combo system and they are trying to balance out all control methods, that they will remove the C-Stick Smash so that Wiimote users can have equal balance.

Ceric · « **Reply #827 on:** July 09, 2007, 03:21:00 AM »

You do make a point.. With the button hold that does open the ability to vary it more using direction.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #828 on:** July 09, 2007, 06:43:00 AM »

Slightly off topic, but I was mentioning this to SB yesterday. While the SSB games have always been about characters clashing with each other, the graphical style of Brawl will make that sentiment more than apparent. What I mean is that in the first two SSB games while the characters were still different from each other they share a similar art style (in the original SSB, due to the low poly count the characters looked cartoony and in Melee they were all very colorful and very "anime"-esque). In Brawl, however, the characters will be far more distinctive in their design and thus the clash will be far bigger and even weirder in the next game.

What I mean is that characters like Wario, Mario, Kirby and Pikachu will look WEIRD standing next to characters like Samus, Snake, Link and Zelda, who are far more realistically designed than in the last SSB games.

As Cap put it, it will be something like "Who framed Roger Rabbit?".

LuigiHann · « **Reply #829 on:** July 09, 2007, 06:52:09 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
As Cap put it, it will be something like "Who framed Roger Rabbit?".

I don't think it'll be quite like that. There's a broad spectrum, sure, but not a clear line between "cartoon" and "real" like there is in that movie. Fox looks a bit more real than Wario, and Wario looks a quite a bit more real than Pikachu, even though all 3 of those characters might be considered "cartoonish." Similarly, Link has a bit more of an anime style than Snake, but their proportions are still similar. I think the textures and shading also help to mask the differences in style.

I mean, you can already see them standing together in screenshots. It doesn't look weird to me, at least, no weirder than Melee, and no weirder than it should. Does it look that weird to you?

Ceric · « **Reply #830 on:** July 09, 2007, 07:11:30 AM »

If they were really going for that they would have used a model for Mario that was closer to his Galaxy incarnation. The one they are using is getting to the point of hyper realistic with his clothes. In fact I find it a little disconcerting. Especially considering that Pikachu must be made out plastic...

Kairon · « **Reply #831 on:** July 09, 2007, 09:08:51 AM »

What's with all the C-Stick hate? I don't get it. The C-stick is PERFECT for me, especially when my playstyle, which isn't very good to begin with, depends on quick smashes with Pikachu!

Dirk Temporo · « **Reply #832 on:** July 09, 2007, 09:50:04 AM »

It really isn't all that hard to do a quick smash attack. I never use the C-stick.

Kairon · « **Reply #833 on:** July 09, 2007, 09:52:18 AM »

So if it isn't that hard, why complain?

Crimm · « **Reply #834 on:** July 09, 2007, 10:58:30 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
So if it isn't that hard, why complain?

I have no beef with the change, but the "Hee ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya!" was intolerable.

Mashiro · « **Reply #835 on:** July 09, 2007, 11:07:52 AM »

Crimm hit it right on the head.

Characters such as kirby with never ending combo punches come to mind and as a general rule of thumb I HATE automated combat features in fighting games.

It'll be very annoying getting boxed into a corner when those repeated combo hits just keep on coming and your shield starts to go away and this time the person delivering the hits won't accidently miss a press and stop the barrage of punches since well all they need to do is hold down a button.

Sorry that was an awful run on sentence.

Kairon · « **Reply #836 on:** July 09, 2007, 11:10:02 AM »

I don't get it, don't you guys trust Sakurai to account for this in his balancing? This isn't a careless addition, the guy has garnered your trust in so many ways, why not give it here?

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #837 on:** July 09, 2007, 11:10:38 AM »

You know part of the charm of the Smash series is that it does fit all these characters together that just should be together in a single game...yet it works.

It is much the same charm that Kingdom Hearts has. You are able to visit the worlds of every Nintendo game, with any of your favorite Nintendo characters.

And for all the fears that the games won't graphically go together so far there is nothing that indicates that will happen. It is actually Melee that proves otherwise that the level designs straight from the games, and character models straight from the games do blend well together. Even if it is still surreal to be fighting Pikachu with Link.

Mashiro · « **Reply #838 on:** July 09, 2007, 11:12:38 AM »

Like I said just as a general rule of thumb for me I hate automated actions in fighting games, nothing again SSBB, I just hate it in any game.

Pale · « **Reply #839 on:** July 09, 2007, 11:30:37 AM »

Combos (at least the kind that this latest blog post is referring to) never had anything to do with rhythm anyway. You just tapped the button as fast as possible.

Holding the button down won't make any difference there, as the time of the combo will still be identical.

This isn't even close to the same thing as the C-Stick.

If this were Street Fighter 2, this change would be like using a turbo button.
In Street Fighter two the C-Stick would be the equivalent of having a macro button the has all of the special moves programmed into it.

King of Twitch · « **Reply #840 on:** July 09, 2007, 02:16:44 PM »

The star fox stage actually looks good this time, no nostalgic n64 fog fogging it up

Kairon · « **Reply #841 on:** July 09, 2007, 02:26:58 PM »

No. The c-stick is like pressing a number on your keyboard to do a move in WoW instead of moving the mouse to click the button physically... except the c-stick actually prevents charging, so it's got even less utility.

Pale · « **Reply #842 on:** July 09, 2007, 04:34:01 PM »

I disagree completely Kairon. A smash attack is an advanced enough maneuver that first time players should not be able to do it until they learn a little bit.

There is nothing more frustrating than to be leaving a rookie alone in a 4 player match only to lose track of them and have them c-stick you to your death after a heated battle with a competent player.

Kairon · « **Reply #843 on:** July 09, 2007, 04:44:59 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
I disagree completely Kairon. A smash attack is an advanced enough maneuver that first time players should not be able to do it until they learn a little bit.

There is nothing more frustrating than to be leaving a rookie alone in a 4 player match only to lose track of them and have them c-stick you to your death after a heated battle with a competent player.

That's awesome. It makes for an encouraged rookie, and an expert who'll hopefully learn that in Smash, even rookies can't be written off.

Mashiro · « **Reply #844 on:** July 09, 2007, 04:49:58 PM »

Although I hate C-Stick and now this whole holding down button repeated attack thing . . . the superior player will always beat the inexperienced ones using the functionality as a crutch.

Adrock · « **Reply #845 on:** July 09, 2007, 05:24:36 PM »

Babying rookies never made much sense to me, especially in a game as inviting as Smash. If you or I can get into Smash, then anyone can. Of course, by "anyone" I mean those already versed in videogames and no, I'm not referring to elusive "hardcore gamer." I don't see Smash as a series that reaches out or can reach out to people who don't already recognize some of the characters in the game. I still see it as a gamer's game. You don't need to encourages newbies to the series by simplifying the game even more. It's plenty accessible and nothing like traditional fighters so that won't discourage non-fans of fighting games. Anyone who plays the game for more than 10 seconds can figure that one out. So, no, I don't buy this "encouraging rookies" stuff. The quality of the game will keep people coming back.

Quote
pap64 wrote:
What I mean is that characters like Wario, Mario, Kirby and Pikachu will look WEIRD standing next to characters like Samus, Snake, Link and Zelda, who are far more realistically designed than in the last SSB games.

Kind of. I get what you're saying. All they've really done, though, is make the colors darker. Smash has always looked weird when you consider that none of these characters really fit into each other's worlds. My guess is that none of us will even notice the second we witness, controllers in hand, Snake punching Pikachu in the face..... repeatedly.

Kairon · « **Reply #846 on:** July 09, 2007, 05:50:46 PM »

But isn't that exactly what Sakurai is doing? Slowing down the speed and simplifying things a bit so more people can play it?

Mashiro · « **Reply #847 on:** July 09, 2007, 05:57:31 PM »

Are they really slowing down the speed??!!

God I hope not. It didn't seem like it in the videos. Melees' pace was fine IMHO.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #848 on:** July 09, 2007, 05:57:41 PM »

Kairon: That is exactly what Sakurai is doing. I don't think he is simplifying the game by taking elements out, but by redesigning the elements to make the game easier to play. And slowing the game down is a good thing, so that balance and accessability is better.

Almost everything I have read on Brawl has been a change for the better. Sakurai is really working on making his opus, and since this might be the final Smash game he is involved in...and therefore possibly the last Brawl game ever it is great that he is really perfecting it.

Mashiro · « **Reply #849 on:** July 09, 2007, 06:09:19 PM »

True....it'll probably be the most perfect SSB experience we could ask for. I shouldn't complain before I play it.

It better have online because honestly, so long as it does, the game will become timeless and probably be played years after Nintendos NEXT system comes out. I know I still love melee with friends =)

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Author Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread (Read 457843 times)