Author Topic: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"  (Read 25809 times)

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Offline Ceric

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2007, 09:14:32 AM »
Corporate Racist. :P
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2007, 09:35:23 AM »
I want Sega to return.

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2007, 09:50:39 AM »
Yes, because we all can see all the great decisions and games Sega has been making recently.

Sega tried, but it kept digging itself a grave with very bad decisions, and their games were never good enough to lift them out of that grave.

Now if Sega would return who would trust buying that system?  I wouldn't.  I would just believe that the hardware would die in a year or less.  


Offline Mikintosh

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RE:Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2007, 10:54:10 AM »
2009 will mark the launch of the EA Gamestation 09, which will be rereleased every year with minor changes to the color of the controllers.

Offline couchmonkey

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RE:Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2007, 11:35:04 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Yes because we all know Sony is the BEST at online gaming and communities.

Sony is the BEST at creating American flavored franchises, and gathering PC and American developer support.

Sony is also the BEST at promoting HD gaming, even though Xbox 360 did it first.

People need to start giving Microsoft some credit.  Yes, they have bought their way into the market...but you know what.  Microsoft did what they had to do to get in.  And now they are pushing forward in areas that Sony and Nintendo haven't yet.

And Ceric:  I completely agree with that editorial you posted.  Very informative.


The fact is, there are things Microsoft does really well...but we all know those things aren't selling a ton of consoles.  Microsoft has been the best at online for years now, so where is the payoff?  Why isn't 360 outselling Wii or PS2?

From a gamer's perspective, I respect Microsoft's dedication to online gaming, and I respect all the money and effort it is putting into expanding its userbase - Blue Dragon and Viva Pinata are 80 times more interesting to me than Halo, even if they turn out to be commercial bombs.  As a gamer, I wish Nintendo had done that with N64 and GameCube.

Then again, if Nintendo had done that, maybe it would be on the verge of bankruptcy right now.  From a business perspective, the Xbox is a failure so far.  I'll be fair: in the "big picture" maybe Xbox has a future.  But up to this point, the Xbox division has lost tons of money and has failed to rack up anywhere near the sales of popular systems like PS2, Super NES, or even N64.
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Offline Amodaus1

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RE:Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #80 on: April 24, 2007, 12:26:47 PM »
I'll throw my hat in this. Mainly i agree with couchmonkey, Microsoft has implemented some nice on-line and is now trying HARDER to diversify their games, but from a marketing sense. Come now Otogi / Panzer Dragoon / Jet Set Future / GunValkyrie / Ninja Gaiden / Phantom Dust (which had on-line and kicks Halo's ass all over) were all titles on the original Fat Box which had a very Japanese Flavor and were outside the Shooter American demographic. Problem was not many people outside the gaming community knew, cause MS didn't bother marketing it around the US just in Japan. This holds very true for Phantom Dust, which is a microsoft funded game, made in microsoft studios, but had to be brought over by majestco to the US (I won't get into how awsome this game is, but it is extremly good and different).

Now with the 360, its like they woke up. Now they see some need to diversify so they are marketing it, The pinata, the kameo, the blue dragon. But kameo and VP failed hard, and the only other japanese sucesses stories on the 360 that i know of are Dead Rising and Lost Planet, and one is a zombie game which American players seem to like regardless of who developes it. So if blue dragon comes, and fails to deliver, I question whether Microsoft will continue this diversity marketing approach when Gears of War brings home more cash, and Tom Clancy "insert something" WAR game and GTA style clone too.

Spak-Spang the way I see it is they do on-line better than sony, but Sony doesn't make you pay. They promoted HD before sony, but lets look at the fact that most gamers play in SD and the fact that throught the history of console gaming it's usually the system with the LEAST power that gets the most development and usually wins that generation (I know the SNES was techincally superior then the Megadrive but the Neo-geo and turbo-gfx16 were superior to the SNES, and the NES was competeing with the MegaDrive for a while). The only reason everyone is jumping on the "HD" bandwagon is cause sony is doing HD, if Sony said screw it to HD (like if they never made Blu-ray or sold HD TVs) then 360 would be getting less support, becuase companies wouldn't be intrested in taking on higher operational costs with greater risks, for less return. Everyone says HD is the way to go, cause the publishers still see Sony as a power house, and IF the PS3 ever picks up steam, they have the tools and experience from the 360 to switch over to PS3 development whenever they want.

Seriously, the HD support is all bells and whistles, the PS2 was damn weak, with craptastic on-line, only 2 controler ports (which severly limits multi-player in house too) and it mopped the floor with gamecube and xbox, AND IS currently mopping the floor with the 360. Only once in the 360's life did it manage to come ahead of the PS2, ever.

Anyway back to the point. Original XBox was what i call niche gaming, 10 years later, when no one can play Halo cause it burns their eyes, is too "ugly" or is to slow compared to "modern gameplay"(which are some complaints of old Golden Eye fans i know) no one will remember the few good games from it, because there are few. For finacial, Xbox Fat was a MASSIVE failure. I know i read it before, and i'll try to find the link, but MS isn't all rosey about Xbox brand either, the company has some internal quarrels over the system. Seems like some people there don't like blowing billions, and they want to terminate the console, which is why some people point out the 3 console plan that MS stated a while ago. If MS doesn't make it out of the Red with the 360, they still may throw up 720, but if that doesn't make bank, I'm sure people inside the company will pull the plug. Also aren't 360 sales rate on par with Xboc original sales rates? If so, Xbox original total worldwide sales are less than N64 (like 18 million or so less), and that was considered a failure by many.

EDIT: Yeah also about that MS on-line you gotta wonder if console gamers really like on-line, or do they just hate paying for it. It'd be intresting to see next year what percentage of PS3 user play on-line matches. Cause I know MS stated that they hit 6 million LIVE users, but never broke down stats for gold and silver accounts. All they said was that 70% of these users used marketplace, and 70% of that 70% downloaded LIVE arcade games. So if they have those kind of stats, where are the GOLD stats, or % of users who acctually play on-line? My guess is that its low, or even the rate at which the original box's LIVE was at. Thats speculation of course.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #81 on: April 24, 2007, 07:25:12 PM »
I don't think MS will remain at its place in Japan. The failure of the PS3, their much better third-party relations and their large western userbase make the thing a good target platform even for games that would've gone on the PS2 last gen. Many devs that were hurt by Sony's policies are jumping to MS, the only reason Earth Defence force never got a US release on the PS2 was because of Sony's rejection policies.

The 360 is picking up more jRPGs than the PS3 and Wii right now. I don't think it'll be that long until it picks up enough steam to run past the PS3 again. I don't think it'll happen that quickly but I also don't think that the PS3 will win or taht the Wii will leave the 360 devoid of any life.

turbo-gfx16 [was] superior to the SNES

WTF? The Turbografx was stuck somewhere between the NES and SNES techwise. That thing isn't outperforming anything. However, there are many claims that the Megadrive outsold the SNES and the MD was definitely a weaker system.

Offline UERD

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2007, 07:26:38 PM »
Right now, the heart of XBox Live really fits into its 'core competency' game types. The matchmaking type of online offered by Live is really most suited for games where there are large numbers of discrete matches, such as RTS and FPS games. Seeing as how RTS will probably never find more than a niche market among console owners (the nature of real-time strategy gameplay almost requires a mouse and keyboard), FPS and related-style games are the ones that XBox Live is most suited for (as well as the sports games and maybe the adventure games, not sure whether there has been multiplayer GTA). Games like Zelda or any non-MMO role-playing game really don't benefit very much from Live, and MMORPGs are usually going to be run in-house anyways. So, Live's gaming features are great, but they're not going to really expand the XBox's breadth. If Microsoft wants to drive growth and diversify its games portfolio, it really shouldn't be focusing on Live, which plays into the XBox's most popular game types to begin with.

I personally feel that paying to play online is pretty terrible. Blizzard's b.net didn't become popular by charging a monthly fee- when you purchased Starcraft or Warcraft III or Diablo II, you were getting unlimited multiplayer online right out of the box for your $25 or whatever. Then again, Live's big innovation is providing a unified interface that's easy to use for all these different games that are online-capable.

Is there really a point to making super-powerful consoles? I'm pretty sure Sony screwed up big-time. The PS2 was $300 when it launched, and had good graphics for its time. It had a controller and the prospect of fun, exclusive games. $300 really isn't a lot for a graphically-impressive dedicated gaming machine. Now Sony's PS3 is $600 or so, which brings it within the price range of a really cheap computer. What can it do? It plays games with good graphics (like the PS2), it has a controller (which is almost the same as the PS2's), and you can watch movies on it. The problem is that consoles can't really compete with computers based on the criterion of pure processing power or online play, two things which the computer will almost always have the long-term advantage (seriously, do you think PS3's graphics will still compare favorably to those of a high-end PC in '6 or 7 years'?). They need to do things that computers can't. They need to have same-room multiplayer games, games which require the special controller, etc.

I'm not sure the direction that these two companies are taking is the right one. For $500, I could buy upgrades for a relatively new computer (graphics card, RAM, etc) that would turn it into a high-end gaming PC. And all those shooters that are on XBox right now? They're coming to PC eventually, and there are lots of PC-exclusive shooters. GTA is on PC, and you can get the sports games for PC as well. And you can't really argue the control angle, because mouse-keyboard is at least as effective as a gamepad (if not much more so) for FPS gameplay. So, what are the incentives for me to buy the console? If Sony and Microsoft really want to make a compelling case, they'd better have more than 'it's easier to hook up to a HDTV than a computer'.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2007, 07:33:19 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: UERD
They [consoles] need to do things that computers can't. They need to have same-room multiplayer games, games which require the special controller, etc.


Wow, I never thought of it like that before. That was actually an awesome little nugget of perspective in your also very good post!

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Offline Ceric

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2007, 03:47:50 AM »
I've been saying for a while that MS is trying to expand its base.  Also I like to play Phantom Dust.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2007, 04:00:23 AM »
CouchMonkey:  I just don't like people not acknowledging that Microsoft has actually been good for the gaming industry.

Also, I think Nintendo has been trying to bring more variety for gamers.  In fact, I believe each new console they have tried to do it better, but sometimes have just failed.

Nintendo 64 brought us Nintendo published FPS, Fighting Games, Platformers and Rare.

Unfortunately, we didn't compete with RPGs, and Sports games well.

The Gamecube brought us Silicon Knights and the survival horror franchise in force.  We had good sports offerings and new Nintendo franchises like Pikmin, Geist, and Battalion Wars.

Unfortunately, we still didn't capture the hearts of 3rd party developers.

Now with the Wii, Nintendo seems to be reaching for those 3rd party developers with open arms...and at the same time, offering us new stuff.  Wii Sports, Online gaming, Still more serious games Day of Disaster and Project Hammer.  

No unfortunately yet...and hopefully we won't have one.

Microsoft started out solely appealing the the American base...and in many ways courting computer gamers.  It was a market that really hasn't been truly marketed for in the console market.  

I truly believe that only two items are keeping Microsoft from busting into this next generation market.

1)Price.  The Xbox 360 is still an expensive system, and Microsoft has raised the costs of games, controllers...basically everything.

2)Hardware problems.  The hardware problems really hurt Microsoft's reputation this generation...and people are still unsure if they got it fixed.  The problem with aiming for the educated older gamer, is that they know when you screw up.  They surf the net and actually do some research.


Offline couchmonkey

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2007, 05:17:07 AM »
Hey Spak, I agree with your two points at the end, but I also strongly believe, like a lot of others here, that the Xbox just doesn't appeal to a wide enough audience. Look at the big games for 360: Halo 3, Mass Effect, BioShock, Gears of War, Lost Planet...they're all sci-fi alien shooters.  I know those games don't all follow the standard formula, but casual customers can't tell that at a glance.  (Edit: it's not unlike Nintendo's "for kids" image...Wind Waker may be an awesome game, but at a glance it's just one more Nintendo game for kids.)

About acknowledging that Microsoft has actually been good for the gaming industry...that's an interesting point.  I  never meant to deny that, I'm just saying the company hasn't done well for itself.  As for being good for the industry...well, I think it has definitely pushed online ahead, which is great for gamers.

There's always the "Microsoft will try to take over everything and doom us all" perspective, which might be what you're talking about...and that's all speculative, right?  We can't say Microsoft has hurt the industry by doing that if it hasn't done it yet.  I think it probably would if it could, after all, what company WOULDN'T?  Nintendo was like that back in the day.  That probably would hurt the industry, but it hasn't happened yet, and I don't think it will this generation.  
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2007, 09:50:44 AM »
The good thing MS did was bring online to consoles faster.  Unfortunately they charge money for peer to peer play.  They basically took the pc model and moved it to consoles plus paying, not a very special feat.  It is pretty obvious by the games on the system.  The big games and usual third party games are pc ports, pc developers, and typical pc fair like fps. The games outside of this category are usually bankrolled by MS such as Viva Pinata and Blue Dragon.  As everyone here should know from the Gamecube adding one or two games from a different genre doesn't change people's perspective (especially when they tank).  People are buying 360 for fps and similar games, my friend has one and all of his games are either fps or third person shooters.

All signs point to them still not breaking into Japan.  They are doing worse then the original xbox and have had games come out aimed at Japan such as Blue Dragon.  It is seen as the rated x console over there now as far as I know (not all that much about it).  Japan is far more then rpgs, and Nintendo and Sony will have the rpgs soon.

Offline MLS_man_64

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2007, 11:53:28 AM »
Videogame Microsoft looses 315M, sales down.

"Microsoft says the drop in sales came primarily because of decreases in the sale of Xbox 360s"

"Sales of Xbox and PC games decreased 44 percent over the company's first three quarters"

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=13698

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Offline Kairon

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RE:Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2007, 02:28:35 PM »
Good news! I think this is the smallest loss that MS's Home And Entertainment division has experienced yet!

... or is this SPECIFICALLY the videogame division instead of that entire part of MS?

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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2007, 05:22:47 AM »
It's the whole division, I think Microsoft uses it to hide which products are losing the most money from investors.  (I know, totally conspiracy-theory, but seriously, everybody wants to know whether Zune or Xbox or whatever other stuff is rolled into this is losing more money, don't they?)

It's true that this is a relatively small loss, but it's still 1/3 of a billion dollars, and to top it off, 360 sales are pretty weak.  I guess the company is waiting for Christmas, but that price drop is really looking good right now.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2007, 05:59:43 AM »
Have we seen this?

“Strong companies confident in their strategy and performance don't do these things," the Ehrenberg blog says. “They don't have to. What kind of a message does this type of behavior send to the investor community and, more importantly, your customers? Weakness. Fear. Short-term thinking. Nothing that represents a positive signal for a better, brighter tomorrow.” Roger Ehrenberg, president and COO of investment analyst service Monitor110 financial blog, got his information from the Apple-focused Blackfriars' Marketing. They imply that “Microsoft threatened to withhold copies of its Vista operating system--released in January--from retailers who didn't play along and choke down excess Xbox 360 inventory.”
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Offline Arbok

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RE:Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #92 on: April 29, 2007, 08:20:33 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Have we seen this?

Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Bingo. That is their #1 objective. Let's not ignore the recent reports either that Microsoft might have dumped a ton of consoles onto the market to meet their "10 million" shipped target last holiday... which sales still haven't caught up to that mark yet:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Xbox-360-Microsoft-Mugged-Their-own-Sales-Figures-51980.shtml


Yep
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #93 on: April 30, 2007, 05:57:52 AM »
k
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Offline Arbok

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RE:Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2007, 08:48:16 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
k


Touché
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Analyst: "Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft"
« Reply #95 on: April 30, 2007, 09:15:12 AM »
Indeed.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64