Topic: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS

[Strell]

I love how the arguments with Nintendo online are, which boil down to this:

"I'm a whiner and I want to play my prescious games online, but I totally want all those useless things also like downloading movies, WHY MUST YOU NOT LET ME DOWNLOAD MOVIES NINTENDO.  Instead I have to use friend codes which are worth 30 seconds of inconvenience.  THAT'S HALF A MINUTE YOU KNOW."

>As opposed to what?  Driving across, potentially, several states to play your friend who lives on the other side of the country?

"YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.  30 SECONDS OF INCONVENIENCE.  THAT IS WAY WORSE."

Gosh.  Just shut up.  It's a free online service to play games against friends, and the best all these whiners can muster is some bullsh*t excuse that it's going to be such an arm-twisting.

Fine.  Go buy your own jet and fly everywhere you want to play.

Then come back and stfu, because I'm tired of how childish you're acting.

I grew up in a time where you were lucky if you could play online games.  It required calling your friend, telling him to load up Warcraft II, making sure he (and you) had notified everyone in the house that the phone line would be busy and to NOT pick up the phone, checking all your modem settings, finally agreeing to what map to play, hanging up, opening Warcraft II (after 4-5 minutes of trying to connect to your ISP), dialing your friend, finally getting connected the third time, setting all the game parameters, FINALLY start playing, and ultimately having your freaking sister pick up the phone 2 minutes into the game, when you had told her 10 minutes before to not touch the thing.

This doesn't take into account the fact that your ISP's anti-call waiting service usually sucked, so you were SOL if someone called.

Yeah.  I think I can handle friend codes.  

[Pittbboi]

Yeah, because you're the bastion of maturity right now...

I think asking for an online service that works with features that have been basic for years now, actually lets developers put their games online, and doesn't limit some genres of games (and make others downright impossible) is a little more than whining about "30 seconds of inconvenience".

And just because things were harder "back in the day" doesn't mean we shouldn't hold Nintendo to standards they surpass in just about every other facet of gaming. If we lived life according to what everyone had to deal with back in the day, we would all be satisfied with walking everywhere, barefoot, in the snow, uphill. Duh, online gaming is better than it used to be, that's a minor (and frankly, pathetic) plus to claim. But does that mean we give Nintendo a pass for still not being up to par with the standards set now.    

[Ceric]

Personally, I want this to go either one of two ways.

1) Adding people to a game roster by bringing up my address book and pulling there code into the games roster. (Look it takes me more then 30 seconds for me to put in the code and give a nickname plus I have to look at the code and write it down and hope I didn't mess it up.)

2) For the Wii to automagically sense when one of my friends "owns" a game I can play them online that I also "own." (Determined by there save files or the play once data.) Then automagically add them to my in game roster.

Those I be perfectly fine with.  In the end though I'll probably just play random battles.

[ryancoke]

I think we need to look at the big picture. If nintedo does decide to use individual friend codes for each game it's still better than nothing. Also for those of us old-schoolerz who can remember trying to play doom over a 19.2 modem connection with a buddy or two can rejoice in the simplicity of simply entering a friend code instead of trying to figure out what freakin hayes compatible modem string to use.  Sorry for the run-on sentance but i've had a few coffees today...

[Strell]

I'm not giving Nintendo a pass.

I'm calling you a whiner.

[Pittbboi]

And I'm calling you a fanboy. All's fair.  

[Strell]

Ahh.  It appears that I need to add "can't read" to the list.

You're a whiner who can't read.  

[Pittbboi]

...

Oh please, you say you're not giving Nintendo a pass but then you take everyone's complaints and issues with Nintendo's online service and lump it all into something incredibly simplistic like "complaining about 30 seconds of inconvenience." As if that's REALLY the only problem people could possibly have with it.  

[BranDonk Kong]

Using different codes for each game is worse than nothing if you ask me. If they're trying to keep kids safe, then the one Wii number is all they need. If I have someone's number for one game, why in the Hell would I need another to play a different game? Why can't we just use the same code? This is SEVERELY disappointing. I personally think the whole friend code thing is ridiculous anyway. The system has built-in parental controls. I wanna connect online, see a list of who's playing, and start a game. Just because it's free doesn't mean it has to be a nuisance.

[decoyman]

I've got to side with Pittbboi on this one. Nintendo had the opportunity to make this much, MUCH easier (the Gamespy people said they could've gone with a unified friend code system), and they went a redundant, and altogether unnecessary route. As someone else has argued, we've already given permission for people on our console friends lists to message us and send Miis... and now we're supposed to re-enter that same person who we've already said we trust to play a game?

Besides, to enter the 75 or so people I have on my console list right now, it took me a whole heck of a lot longer than 30 seconds. Think literally HOURS to get everyone added in, then DAYS waiting for them to darken up.

If true, this is just dumb, and I don't get why they chose to do it this way.  

[Plugabugz]

Exactly. I have been saying that back since dot. The parental control system should be updated to block any online data transfer with the wii outside of the Mii Plaza. If it can detect that a SD card slot is locked, then it can easily say to a ill-intentioned child of any age PARENT SAYS NO - EAT VEGETABLES AND FEEL MY WRATH.

Ultimately it boils down to inconvenience. I still hate, to this day, adding action replay codes. If it absorbs the global address list and adds an individual one in that game (with the possibility of moving them back to the global list) then i reckon it's fine.

[Strell]

A whiner who can't read and might possibly be retarded.

Besides the fact that we still have no concrete evidence on how the online system is going to work, this is all a bunch of hoopla over theoretical claims as of this moment.  

Even if it is FCs, that doesn't change the other factors that Nintendo is obviously trying to shield themselves from.  And while I don't think they need to be this careful, we're living in a society that claims the Wii, PSP, and essentially any other online-capable device is a portal to hell, pornography, pedophiles, and all the other distasteful extremes that only Fox News can dream up.

People act like Nintendo is doing this because they want to piss off gamers, which is a stupid notion.  They are doing this primarily for two reasons - 1) because they are going to get a ton of immediate response anyway, so it hardly matters what their competitors are doing, because all they see is them losing billions on an online infrastructure that still has yet to produce a lot of profit and can't pull in more than a fraction of their userbase, and 2) because they have lawyers sitting around saying "You know we're going to get sued unless we make it absolutely impossible for idiot Americans to find a flaw here."

Everyone wants to paint this entire thing in this hostile, confrontational coat, like Nintendo is going to steal their lunch money tomorrow and then egg their house at night.  And since you're all being egocentric whiners about it, you're just going to complain and bitch and moan about how every last little thing in the system is going to be so overwhelmingly abysmal, when you have no clue how it's going to work, and haven't even tried it out yet.

You say I'm giving them a pass?  Not really.  I'm just smart enough to understand when a big deal is being made of something that really isn't that big of a deal, as well as I have this uncanny ability to see it beyond "omfg thats dum."

If the online community would just get over itself, this would be a lot easier.  We represent the whiniest and tiniest fraction of Nintendo's userbase right now, and oddly enough, Sony and Microsoft are trying to do the same thing with their systems.  The big difference is that they've got billions to burn if they want.  Nintendo doesn't, and frankly, I can deal with the fact that the steps I'll have to take to play my buddy online in Smash Bros, while he's in New Hampshire and I'm stuck down here in Texas, is eons easier and more enjoyable than me only getting to throw down a half dozen times a year.

You want to blame people?  Blame all the idiot parents, the inflammatory activist groups, politicians, and the fact that there's little to no money to be made by dropping billions in technology that still isn't fool proof yet.  

Until then, grow a pair and attempt to think outside your shallow, narrow band of thought for more than 2 seconds.

[Pittbboi]

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A whiner who can't read and might possibly be retarded.

Call me what you want but that doesn't change the fact that your posts are all a big bunch of nothing.

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Even if it is FCs, that doesn't change the other factors that Nintendo is obviously trying to shield themselves from. And while I don't think they need to be this careful, we're living in a society that claims the Wii, PSP, and essentially any other online-capable device is a portal to hell, pornography, pedophiles, and all the other distasteful extremes that only Fox News can dream up.

It's one thing to protect themselves from the media, but it's another thing to cripple any chances of online gaming success. Heck, at this point their efforts to protect the little dumb kids (I say dumb because even as a kid, I wasn't dumb enough to fall for an online pedobear, and neither was anyone I knew) is getting more bad press from the gaming community than they would be getting from the general media if they just settled with a more reasonable, if less safe, service. Nintendo should just make sure they're not legally responsible, provide adequate warnings and parental control options, and call it a day...rather than kill their chances to provide a quality service.

This is the internet, as long as it exists there are going to be idiots taking advantage of it and getting taken advantaged of as a result of it. Email, chat rooms, message boards, online gaming--it all gets lambasted by the media for not thinking of the children, and Nintendo needs to realize that if they're going to venture into that territory at all they're not going to be spared, period. Heck, even with all these measures they've taken, people have STILL managed to find reasons to claim Nintendo products aren't safe for your children. So it's NINTENDO that needs to grow a pair and deal with it. Online gaming has been around for years and it's going to continue to be around for years, regardless. Heck, with all the hoopla made over Xbox Live and Playstation Online not being safe kids, those services are still alive and going strong (6 million strong, in Xbox Live's case).

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You say I'm giving them a pass? Not really. I'm just smart enough to understand when a big deal is being made of something that really isn't that big of a deal, as well as I have this uncanny ability to see it beyond "omfg thats dum."

Yes, and see beyond to what, exactly? A future of more online options getting shaved from the Wii versions of games because the structure just doesn't allow for them?

Yes, it's true that we don't know everything and this could possibly all be some misunderstanding. But the sad truth is that what we DO know makes it more logical to assume that the final product is going to be a disappointment than it is to assume that somehow Nintendo is going to release some miracle news that, at the last minute, saves the day and makes friend codes and individual friend lists look appealing. At the end of the day we could be wrong and Nintendo can end up doing JUST that, but again, Nintendo doesn't have a good track record when it comes to last minute saves. When a depressing bit of news gets out about something Nintendo's doing, and Nintendo's silent about it, usually it's because the news is more or less true. You can't blame the naysayers and say we're reaching when we complain about this, the fact is we're working with what Nintendo gives us. And, nowadays, when it comes to online, it's the apologists that actually have to reach for something good to say about it.

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The big difference is that they've got billions to burn if they want. Nintendo doesn't, and frankly, I can deal with the fact that the steps I'll have to take to play my buddy online in Smash Bros, while he's in New Hampshire and I'm stuck down here in Texas, is eons easier and more enjoyable than me only getting to throw down a half dozen times a year.

I can't stand this argument. Nintendo is the most profitable thing in gaming, it's not some freakin' garage band. Nintendo is worth billions, makes a profit off of everything it sells, and CAN afford an online structure that WORKS. This isn't about Nintendo cutting costs. This is about Nintendo forcing a service that's intentionally gimped to protect a fraction of the market that isn't really all that into online console gaming, anyway.    

[Ian Sane]

"Why dont you guys just buy Xbox 360s if this actually matters to you."

That's the exact attitude that f*cked Nintendo over for a decade.  They said "Just buy a Playstation is third party support matters to you" and everyone did and Nintendo became a joke as a result.

The fact that Nintendo goofs really obvious stuff a lot is annoying in itself but it's even worse that they've trained a lot of their fanbase to not only accept their questionable decions but actually defend them.  There is no advantage or even a logical reason for Nintendo to implement online in the manner they're doing.  NO ONE likes it, it is largely unnecessary, and others have had free online services that have been better implemented.  So why is anyone defending it?  It's not like Nintendo is your close personal friend that you're afraid of offending.  Sometimes they f*ck up and calling them on it doesn't make you any less of a fan.  The best arguement I see for defending this is pretty much "Nintendo is always right".

And merely wanting a company to provide a service in a logical user-friendly way is not whining.  Those of us complaining are all glad Nintendo is online but there is a certain basic level of competence that is required here.  Nintendo doesn't have to make a free version of Xbox Live but they at least should make something people want to use.

This is really no different then Nintendo refusing to release demos through normal methods.  It's making your fanbase jump through hoops for no reason and it is against all rational thought that anyone not on Nintendo's payroll would defend it.

[decoyman]

Ok, I'm not in the "Nintendo online will fail because of this" camp. I don't think it will. I just think it's really inconvenient and unnecessary.

Plus, I don't understand why people keep saying, "the individual game FC system is safer." I've already taken people into my confidence with my console code. How is it different from adding them again in the game? It's like people think the bad guys can't take advantage of the console friend code or something, and that the same people you've added on the console suddenly become equipped for evil deeds when they are able to enter a game with you. Huh?

[Strell]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
This is about Nintendo forcing a service that's intentionally gimped to protect a fraction of the market that isn't really all that into online console gaming, anyway.

I'd like you to provide something that tells me that XBL is hugely profitable.

Until you do, we're going to go around in circles, because you are continually acting like that isn't the biggest issue at hand here.

[Smash_Brother]

Nintendo should just license iChat from Apple after they license iTunes and have iChat be a selectable every time you hit the Home button.

Imagine you're playing a game and a friend's Mii shows up in the upper left corner of the screen with a little text bubble asking if you want to play some SSBB against him.

Bam. Friend list problem solved.  

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: TerribleOne
Well V-Mario has a point about jumping into conclusions....

Yes, teh interwebs likes to do this jumping to conclusions thing a lot.

Remember the concerns of the hardcore gamer isn't the only slice of the pie. You've got the parents that want their kids to be safe online. The gamers that just want to find opponets without hassle and without fuƧkwads calling them mexican jew lizards or whatever. Then Nintendo has got the new gamers they are getting through games like Brain Trainer and Wii Sports that do not want to deal with said ruffians. And Do remember Nintendo has its own feelings and wants.

So while the hardcore opinion about how online should be conducted is probably in the minority here, don't think for a second that it wasn't taken into consideration.

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
I approve of this news, because it makes the internet really angry.

Heh, I'll agree with you there too. It's "irrational exuberance" over something that in the end it doesn't matter. Like the news of revolution being renamed "Wii". It gets the irrational gamers all hot and bothered. And lets face it gamers are anything but rational.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

This thread is more fun than Wario Ware.

Nintendo's providing the finest in online entertainment in more ways than expected!

[nitsu niflheim]

needs more retard talk, get to it y'all

[Ian Sane]

I imagine back in the mid-90s gamers complaining about the N64 being revealed to use cartridges would have been accused of "irrational exuberance" if the internet was as common then as it is now.  I don't think this is even remotely as huge as that was but too often it seems that any criticism of Nintendo policies would be considered "irrational exuberance".

To me it's all about what I want in online gaming.  I like how Nintendo is giving me something for free.  I don't need something as complex as Xbox Live.  I just want something that lets me keep track of friends universally and allows me to venture into random matchups if I choose to.  I personally just don't want to enter a friend code, or even keep track of individual friend lists, for each game.  It's a lot of extra hassle.  I don't see anything wrong with saying "hey I personally don't care for this setup because..."

"Like the news of revolution being renamed 'Wii'."

I still hate that name and I am really surprised that it has gone over with the general public without any problems.

[UltimatePartyBear]

I'm not convinced you know what exuberance means.  If nothing else, it's the first time I've heard of exuberant criticism.

[Ceric]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Nintendo should just license iChat from Apple after they license iTunes and have iChat be a selectable every time you hit the Home button.

Imagine you're playing a game and a friend's Mii shows up in the upper left corner of the screen with a little text bubble asking if you want to play some SSBB against him.

Bam. Friend list problem solved.

Why?  I mean for all intents and purposes iChat is a feature enhanced AIM client.  Thats what most people use it for.  Nintendo could just roll there own IM channel fairly easily.  Even adopt and modify something Open Source, like GAIM, or hire someone to develope one like the did with the browser, like Cerulean Studios.  

No offence Smash but if the Wii works mostly like the Cube did I really doubt more then just the bare minimum of the OS is there if at all. (Before you bring the home button up it be relatively easy to have something that all developers are required to compile in for it.)  I just don't think that the underlying framework is there.  Also the slight performance hit be worth it.

A neat idea.  Which would be cool.  Though I really hope they have the voice to text stuff before then.

[Pittbboi]

Game Specific Friend *Codes* Confirmed

Well...this is where all hopes of Nintendo having decent online get flushed down the toilet.