Topic: Whoa! Ouch...A little harsh there Chris...

[Pittbboi]

Saw this at GoNintendo, but i'll post the original link.

Chris Hecker, of Spore fame, apparently had some pretty, well, harsh words for Nintendo at the GDC...

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"The way you manufacture a Wii is you take two GameCubes and duct tape."

Not really surprising, but Hecker doesn't like that Nintendo's newest console is ridiculously underpowered, among other complaints. He also made some tongue-in-cheek comments about Nintendo's stance on games as a medium.

"It's not clear to me that Nintendo gives a sh*t about gaming as an art form."

Ouch. Of course, I agree with him on the Wii being incredibly underpowered, and I guess as a developer he would know. Nintendo definitely could have put a little more into the Wii's tank. But I really don't agree with him on Nintendo not giving a sh*t about gaming as an art form.  Nintendo for the most part pioneered modern gaming. Some of the greatest games of all time come from Nintendo's house. In short that was a really stupid thing to say. Now, if he were complaining about Nintendo resting on that and not taking the Wii to the levels it could reach, I'd probably agree. But that's not what he said, and the comment just taints what could have been a pretty scathingly honest critique that Nintendo probably needs right now.


Oh, and Greg Costikyan had this to say:

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"The console manufacturers have a choke hold on the industry, for which you may blame Nintendo."

Costikyan called listeners' attention back to 1985 when Nintendo began its deliciously evil scheme of making publishers pay royalties for a game at its manufacture, regardless of sales.

Nintendo better come with something tomorrow, because with this on top of the fact that Sony is laying down the pimp hand today, Nintendo's getting seriously shown up.

[Infernal Monkey]

This just confirms Spore for the Wii.

EA: Nobody cares about PC gaming anymore, we'll port this!
Chris Hecker: BUT BUT IT HAS N64 GRAPHICS AND NOT ENOUGH GIGAFLOPS HUUURRR!
EA: Shut up and get back to work slave
Chris Hecker: You'll pay Nintendo, you'll pay.

[Deguello]

Who are these guys again?

[TrueNerd]

I agree. How dare Nintendo, or anyone else for that matter, focus on making a video game (emphasis on 'game' entirely intentional) fun? That's just ridiculous.  

[Bill Aurion]

"Costikyan called listeners' attention back to 1985 when Nintendo began its deliciously evil scheme of making publishers pay royalties for a game at its manufacture, regardless of sales."

Hahaha, hey guys look here, Nintendo used to be pretty bad way back when!  What do you mean Sony has been doing the same thing for years?  Bah, just a bunch of lies!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Nintendo better come with something tomorrow, because with this on top of the fact that Sony is laying down the pimp hand today, Nintendo's getting seriously shown up.

How exactly is Sony doing this? Did they announce a price drop or something? Or is it just you being you being overtly negative towards Nintendo and complaining yet again? Maybe you have been asleep but Nintendo can't legally reveal anything new anyway, so I'm not sure what you expect, besides another reason to whine and complain about the doom of the Wii.

[Bloodworth]

I think what he's saying is that Nintendo set the precedent and the rest of the console business has operated on those principles ever since.

[Bill Aurion]

Ahahaha, that's even more laughable!  If we are talking about how Nintendo "ruined" the industry, let's see the more important fact that Nintendo was the one to RESURRECT the industry in the first place...But no, have to make up a hilarious domino theory of bitter fanboyism...

Back to this first guy, I'm trying to figure out what his definition of art is...Last year he apparently grumbled about how next-gen systems were too focused on raw power...Now "not enough power" isn't good enough?  Has this guy even played Wind Waker?  Has he seen Super Paper Mario?  I mean, honestly, I don't see how WRONG he could possibly get about Nintendo "not being artistic" but apparently this level of idiocy does exist...

[GoldenPhoenix]

I've been looking through Sony's stuff, and I don't really see anything stunning, some games have potential but that is it. What exactly did Sony do to lay the pimp slap on Nintendo? Their Mii/Second Life gimmick, that will be probably be severely under utilized?

[Pittbboi]

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How exactly is Sony doing this? Did they announce a price drop or something? Or is it just you being you being overtly negative towards Nintendo and complaining yet again? Maybe you have been asleep but Nintendo can't legally reveal anything new anyway, so I'm not sure what you expect, besides another reason to whine and complain about the doom of the Wii.

Ummm, how is me saying Sony's doing something impressive for a change being overly negative towards Nintendo? Stop reaching into every little thing I say. Nintendo got negative press, I posted it on thsi forum. Big deal. Nintendo may not legally be able to unveil anything (though there's even speculation about that http://smashbrawl.com/2007/03/06/nothing-new-at-gdc-oh-really/), but that doesn't change the fact that they're really aren't shining much this GDC.


And...

1) Home
2) Little Big Planet
3) Warhawk
4) Unveling state of the art development tools

Hate to say it, but that's how Sony's doing it.  Nor did I say that Sony was laying the pimp slap on just Nintendo. That sentence wasn't an attack on Nintendo. However, Sony's definitely showed up to the GDC in their Sunday's best. They've near taken over the whole conference.

And why do people keep comparing Home to Miis?? It's nothing at all like Miis outside the obvious 3D avatar (though Home is of a completely different artistic stock). If you want to compare it to something Nintendo, compare it to Animal Crossing...but with humans...  

[Luigi Dude]

This guy is nothing more then a hypocrite.  If you read about his rant on this link read this quote.

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Chris Hecker was given a chance to speak on the developers' behalf during the session. His complaints in previous rants had been directed at Microsoft and Sony for making multi-core monsters that tout graphics over smart game design. This time, Hecker had a little something to say about everyone's favorite console.

So he has a problem with Microsoft and Sony focusing on power over games, but now he has a problem with Nintendo focusing on games over power.  So what exactly does he want then?

[Bill Aurion]

Ahaha, Home, a disgusting Sims-ripoff...Ahahahaha, Warhawk...Warhawk, the super-hyped game illustrating INNOVATIVE TILT CONTROL that is now a multiplayer-only train wreck...Ahahaha, development tools that may finally bring development progress from "asinine" to "tolerable"...Little Big Planet is the only thing that remotely interests me, and can you HONESTLY say with a straight face that it will bring new gamers to the table?  Because if I didn't know better it feels as if you are trying to make mountains out of pitiful molehills that won't do jack for increasing the fanbase...

And also laugho at your belief that Chris Hecker is going to change the views of developers with some awful tripe rant about "art," which pretty much proves that he shouldn't have ANYTHING to do with the game industry in the first place...  

[Strell]

Comments about power aside, to attack Nintendo on the grounds of not treating games as art is laughable.

Also, Warhawk is hardly anything to worry about.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Yeah, Mii's and stuff are free.

To hell with this $600 Animal Crossing.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi

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How exactly is Sony doing this? Did they announce a price drop or something? Or is it just you being you being overtly negative towards Nintendo and complaining yet again? Maybe you have been asleep but Nintendo can't legally reveal anything new anyway, so I'm not sure what you expect, besides another reason to whine and complain about the doom of the Wii.

Ummm, how is me saying Sony's doing something impressive for a change being overly negative towards Nintendo? Stop reaching into every little thing I say. Nintendo got negative press, I posted it on thsi forum. Big deal. Nintendo may not legally be able to unveil anything (though there's even speculation about that http://smashbrawl.com/2007/03/06/nothing-new-at-gdc-oh-really/), but that doesn't change the fact that they're really aren't shining much this GDC.


And...

1) Home
2) Little Big Planet
3) Warhawk
4) Unveling state of the art development tools

Hate to say it, but that's how Sony's doing it.  

And why do people keep comparing Home to Miis?? It's nothing at all like Miis outside the obvious 3D avatar (though Home is of a completely different artistic stock). If you want to compare it to something Nintendo, compare it to Animal Crossing...but with humans...

Um wow? Home a second life ripoff (and will most likely be something that gets Sony fanboys and Nintendo bashers, Little Big Planet which has potential but that is it (There are much better creation games on the PC. Not to mention the game along with Home seems gimmicky), Warhawk, ehhe maybe, we'll see. THat is not a pimp slapping, sorry. Is it solid? Perhaps, but then again you have to realize we are talking about Sony who does not have the greatest track record besides a few games here and there that turned out to be great titles. About the state of the art development tools, I can't comment on that, except that I have never trusted Sony hyping any technology related things, they always overexagerrate.

Regardless, you are harping about Nintendo not being impressive, what exactly do you want them to do that they can legally besides maybe show some games that were announced (which they are doing)? You seem completely oblivious to the fact that Nintendo is handicapped during GDC for reasons other than themselves. Not to mention that tomorrow is the day they will get the spotlight!

[Pittbboi]

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Little Big Planet is the only thing that remotely interests me, and can you HONESTLY say with a straight face that it will bring new gamers to the table?

Yeah, because Little Big Planet obviously has to bring new gamers to the table in order to be considered an interesting game? Well if that's the case everything Nintendo released on the Cube was utter crap.

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Because if I didn't know better it feels as if you are trying to make mountains out of pitiful molehills that won't do jack for increasing the fanbase...

Call them pitiful molehills all you want, but those pitiful molehills are stealing headlines from just about everything else going on at the GDC.

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And also laugho at your belief that Chris Hecker is going to change the views of developers with some awful tripe rant about "art,

Didn't I not say that that comment was ridiculously stupid?  

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Regardless, you are harping about Nintendo not being impressive, what exactly do you want them to do that they can legally besides maybe show some games that were announced (which they are doing)?

How in the heck is one sentence at the end of my post "harping". Honestly, I'd say you were harping from choosing to attack that one thing I said in an attempt to spin my post into something entirely negative when I actually sided with Nintendo for the most part. Grow up.

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Little Big Planet which has potential but that is it (There are much better creation games on the PC. Not to mention the game along with Home seems gimmicky), Warhawk, ehhe maybe, we'll see.

You're saying I'm wrong but you're offering up nothing better to defend your point other than "Eh, maybe..."

And how anyone can look at the footage of LittleBigPlanet and call it gimmicky is beyond me. The game seems fun as hell and looks like a Pixar animated short. If the game were on the Wii everyone on this board would be creaming their pants.

[GoldenPhoenix]

How anyone can get excited about Sony's GDC display is beyond me. Time and time again Sony has let garbage specs, garbage development tools, and garbage games spew out of their company but they always look "promising" when shown on the floor, sometimes by avoiding showing any true gameplay. This is a company I don't trust as a developer, as an innovator, or even one to even come close to living up to expectations.

[Strell]

There is nothing going on at GDC right now, so of course anything Sony does is going to steal headlines.

It would be like playing baseball against kindergartners.  Of course I'd kick some f*cking ass.

I'm not calling it bad, I'm calling it "the only thing there."

Kinda like taking a Crab Juice over a Mountain Dew.

[Bill Aurion]

"Yeah, because Little Big Planet obviously has to bring new gamers to the table in order to be considered an interesting game?"

Did you not get the memo that it's a download-only Home multiplayer game?  New gamers look at what's on store shelves, not what you can pick out from an online store database...This game won't do anything for the fanbase...

"Call them pitiful molehills all you want, but those pitiful molehills are stealing headlines from just about everything else going on at the GDC."

Are you saying that what goes on at GDC affects sales?  Or perhaps that developers at the show will go "Oh wow, Sony has some downloadable games!  Nintendo has no headlines here, I guess they are doomed, let's put all our resources to PS3 games now!" (hahaha, no...)  I have no clue what you are trying to say here...

[GoldenPhoenix]

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How in the heck is one sentence at the end of my post "harping". Honestly, I'd say you were harping from choosing to attack that one thing I said in an attempt to spin my post into something entirely negative when I actually sided with Nintendo for the most part. Grow up.

Gee, I am so hurt, I'm sorry I misconstrued something where you said Nintendo was getting shown up and pimp slapped. Perhaps you are the one who needs to grow up and realize that statements like that are of a negative bent, and you should be able to back them up. I realize you believe you are the ultimate truth on everything pessimistic about Nintendo, and anyone that disagree is "immature", so it could be difficult. With that said let's see what you said exactly.

1. Nintendo Wii is vastly underpowered (Negative Comment)
2. Nintendo art design helped industry (Positive)
3. Wii is vastly underutilized and Nintendo is resting on its past (Negative)
4. Sony is pimp slapping Nintendo and showing them up by a Second Life clone, a Sims wannabe community builder, Online Only Warhawk, and some world changing developing tools (Negative)

So yes you had one positive point, but the rest is the same pessimistic bull you pull out on about every post.

[Pittbboi]

Oh, don't kid yourself.

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With that said let's see what you said exactly.

1. Nintendo Wii is vastly underpowered (Negative Comment)
2. Nintendo art design helped industry (Positive)
3. Wii is vastly underutilized and Nintendo is resting on its past (Negative)
4. Sony is pimp slapping Nintendo and showing them up by a Second Life clone, a Sims wannabe community builder, Online Only Warhawk, and some world changing developing tools (Negative)

Oh yes, that's exactly what I said. If someone gives credit to Sony for something, clearly it's an affront to Nintendo and everything they stand for. Sony is creating positive waves for the PS3 today, something pretty much nobody thought they were capable of doing. In that sense Sony's laying the pimp hand on everyone, not just the Big N. Defend Nintendo all you want but nothing'll change that.

Look, I'm not going to get into some petty debate with you over this. It's childish and all I did was post a freaking topic highlighting the comments of a guy that, according to me, I mostly disagree with. That doesn't change the fact that there was one thing he said that I did agree with, and last I checked I had the right on these boards to post an opinion without being personally attacked. Not only that, but you've done very little to back up your own follow-up point outside of the usual "Nintendo can get away with this but other developers can't" double-standard.
 

[Blue Plant]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
How anyone can get excited about Sony's GDC display is beyond me. Time and time again Sony has let garbage specs, garbage development tools, and garbage games spew out of their company but they always look "promising" when shown on the floor, sometimes by avoiding showing any true gameplay. This is a company I don't trust as a developer, as an innovator, or even one to even come close to living up to expectations.

That reminds me of horribly disappointing movies that hide behind very appealing trailers (The Grudge and Boogeyman come to mind) just to draw you in until its too late and you've already forked over your money.  Sony is in the movie industry as well, right?  Coincidence?!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Oh, don't kid yourself.

Look, I'm not going to get into some petty debate with you over this. It's childish and all I did was post a freaking topic highlighting the comments of a guy that, according to me, I mostly disagree with. That doesn't change the fact that there was one thing he said that I did agree with, and last I checked I had the right on these boards to post an opinion without being personally attacked. Not only that, but you've done very little to back up your own follow-up point outside of the usual "Nintendo can get away with this but other developers can't" double-standard.

Gee I seem to recall someone attacking me personally, oh wait that was you! Talk about a double standard. Not sure what the heck you are referring to in your last point. You haven't backed up ANY of your comments on why Warhawk, Home, and the sims wannabe are pimp slapping anyone. Hey for the heck of it, let's quote exactly what you said, to show my points are NOT off base of what you said.

1. Nintendo Wii is vastly underpowered (Negative Comment) Ouch. Of course, I agree with him on the Wii being incredibly underpowered, and I guess as a developer he would know. Nintendo definitely could have put a little more into the Wii's tank.

2. Nintendo art design helped industry (Positive)

3.Wii is vastly underutilized and Nintendo is resting on its past (Negative) Now, if he were complaining about Nintendo resting on that and not taking the Wii to the levels it could reach, I'd probably agree. But that's not what he said, and the comment just taints what could have been a pretty scathingly honest critique that Nintendo probably needs right now.

4. Sony is pimp slapping Nintendo and showing them up by a Second Life clone, a Sims wannabe community builder, Online Only Warhawk, and some world changing developing tools (Negative) Nintendo better come with something tomorrow, because with this on top of the fact that Sony is laying down the pimp hand today, Nintendo's getting seriously shown up

I'm sorry but a relatively promising or positive showing is not laying the pimp smack on anyone. Personally I think the reason why people are getting excited about Sony's showing is because they have been stinking things up for so long that they finally have a solid showing (similar philosophy to supporting bad games because you want it so badly).

[Adrock]

Crab juice... hahahahahaha... I love that episode.

And Sony came out strong at GDC, but they're still selling a $600 console. Sony's Home isn't changing that nor will it convince people change their minds about whether or not to get a PS3.

All I wanted out of GDC was a new Brawl trailer. That's looking like a major no-go so I'm going back to bed now.

[ThePerm]

those games sound as great as the capcom 5 was excluding resident evil 4 and viewtiful joe