Topic: id Software is leaning towards ports for Wii

[GoldenPhoenix]

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But where we’re at, since id’s always been about taking revolutionary steps in graphics technology, the Wii’s really not a great platform for that part of our strategy because there’s just not a lot of horsepower there. We’ve looked at what would make sense, some of our older technology, to get up and going on the Wii, because people have expressed interest in licensing tech from us that would be for Wii games, so we’re still figuring out how we can do that. Some of our brands could end up on the Wii. But our new stuff, the next-generation stuff we’re doing, there’s no way that it could run effectively on the Wii.

Or maybe some of our brands. We have a bunch of brands and maybe we’ll look at partnering with somebody with some of our older technology that really would push the limits of the Wii and look at our brands and which are appropriate. See which makes sense, and this version of our technology would look better than any other Wii game out there. We would modify it to make sure things made sense and add things in where possible, because the Wii is a fairly new graphics card, even if it’s no a very powerful machine. So there are things we could do to make it look great.

It seems quite clear that iD is not going to invest much in the Wii. My question is is this really a big deal? Id has been creating basically the same game since Wolfenstein 3D, so will you guys really miss some new games created for the Wii from id?  

[Infernal Monkey]

Super Noah's Ark 3D remake plz.

[Ceric]

It's not the games with id.  There games are like Serious Sam.  A showcase for there engine which is what they really are selling.  A lot of companies rely on non-internally developed engines to develop there games.  Them not taking the Wii seriously can only mean games with an engine not truly optimized for a system.  They Pretty much stated there just going to port one of there older engines.

I personally would have preferred them stating that they would be developing an engine for the Wii that while wouldn't be able to produce the graphics of the other two systems would leverage the other unique attributes of the Wii.  

Leave it at that.  Don't even introduce the word "old"

[BranDonk Kong]

I the Unreal 2001 engine old enough? Because that's a beautiful game for being 6 years old. Unreal 2004?

[Pittbboi]

It's still disappointing to hear that the Wii's graphical limitations are still making it unattractive to some, despite how well it has been selling.

I hope this doesn't become a trend with engine-makers, because that could seriously gimp the Wii.

[Adrock]

The way I see it Wii won't get every game due to its limited hardware, but it can't get worse than it was the last two generations. Wii will get some great games and I don't have enough money to buy or the time to play them all anyway. It's a shame that not every game developers want to make are possible they way developers want them to be, but I think Wii will have more than enough solid titles to satisfy most people.... well, eventually.

[Bloodworth]

You've got to expect it from these guys though.  Their main focus is to constantly push the bar forward on graphics. They don't care what it costs, they just want the most powerful hardware available.  Heck, they haven't worked directly on a console game since the N64.  Doom 3 on Xbox was done by Vicarious Visions.

[wandering]

Nintendo is DOOMED.

...get it? Because Id....you see? No? Ah, forget it.

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You've got to expect it from these guys though. Their main focus is to constantly push the bar forward on graphics. They don't care what it costs, they just want the most powerful hardware available.

Well. They care about graphics a good deal, but it's not like they completely shun older hardware. If I recall, they paid special care to make sure Doom 3 looked and ran well on older systems, which isn't always true of cutting edge PC games.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Providing an engine from the ground-up still would've been nice in the first place, and it could make them lots of money in licensing.

But they admit they're not useful to the masses of new-generation players.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
The way I see it Wii won't get every game due to its limited hardware, but it can't get worse than it was the last two generations. Wii will get some great games and I don't have enough money to buy or the time to play them all anyway. It's a shame that not every game developers want to make are possible they way developers want them to be, but I think Wii will have more than enough solid titles to satisfy most people.... well, eventually.

I still wonder just how limited the Wii is visually when it comes to Standard Definition, or if many of these companies just don't want to put the money and effort into creating graphically impressive engines.

[LuigiHann]

Whatever happened to Commander Keen?  

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi

It's still disappointing to hear that the Wii's graphical limitations are still making it unattractive to some, despite how well it has been selling.

Look it how you want, but I think it is positive rather then negative that id is looking to see how they can update and get old graphics engines running on Wii. I mean, you don't talk to id Software for graphics tech if you're just going to make some 3rd rate game. You can get graphics engines from others much cheaper i'd assume.

You talk to id for game tech if you want to maximize graphics capabilities. So, I'd say, that means developers are looking for tech to make the most of Wii.

Edit: More over... Why are you complaining that people want to develop games for Wii? I'd like to see lots of 3rd party developer support for Wii.

[Pittbboi]

How could you possibly turn what I said into a complaining that people WANT to develop games for the Wii? You're looking far too deep into something I didn't say.

I was, pure and simple, lamenting the fact that they're restricting all of their Wii work (possibly, there was no confirmation) to old technology, and claiming all of the next-generation, new work would be put elsewhere. Having their old tech is great--it's better than nothing. But it's still a little disappointing that they're going to be taking all of their new ideas to other consoles.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
How could you possibly turn what I said into a complaining that people WANT to develop games for the Wii? You're looking far too deep into something I didn't say.

I was, pure and simple, lamenting the fact that they're restricting all of their Wii work (possibly, there was no confirmation) to old technology, and claiming all of the next-generation, new work would be put elsewhere. Having their old tech is great--it's better than nothing. But it's still a little disappointing that they're going to be taking all of their new ideas to other consoles.

New ideas being the same ideas they've been using since the Wolfenstein 3D days. id is perhaps one of the most unimaginative PC developers going, they are basically graphic whores and do little to evolve the "run n gun" FPS formula.

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
How could you possibly turn what I said into a complaining that people WANT to develop games for the Wii? You're looking far too deep into something I didn't say.

Well, who says they'll always be taking their "new ideas" to other consoles. I was responding to that in your post that seems to be looking too deep for negativity. I mean, so what if id doesn't want to develop or put their "new ideas" on Wii right now. The same quotation says that other developers are looking to put their "new ideas" on Wii with the help of id's old tech engines. Even id's response to that was that they'd be updating the old tech with "new ideas" so it takes advantage full advantage of Wii's technology, regardless of the fact that Wii is less powerful then the PS3 or 360.

So why is it such a big deal that id isn't putting its "new ideas" on Wii right now? Even if they never do, why does that have to apply to other game engine makers? I mean, if other developers are interested in using updated old tech to work on Wii... Who says that can't lead to them asking for an entirely new engine specifically made for Wii? Or for that matter, id wanting to making one themself if Wii remains popular? There was, i'd say, a heck of a lot more good then bad in the quotation and was confused why you chose to focus only the negative.

[oohhboy]

Maybe the old tech would work better? When Factor 5 made Rebel Strike, they scraped their old engine in favor of writing a new one. They ended up wasting large amounts of time redoing alot work that didn't need to be done. All for noticable, but disproporate graphics update at the expense of better gameplay and level design. Condsidering that those guys are absolute machines when it comes to writing code, it can be forgiven that other developers maybe less than willing to invest the time in writing new engines instead of adapting existing engines for the same purpose.

New ideas will be added. Games on the Wii will look better. Just because you didn't get a "new tech boner" it doesn't mean that the technology is irrelavent or obsolete.

[Pittbboi]

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There was, i'd say, a heck of a lot more good then bad in the quotation and was confused why you chose to focus only the negative.

Well, it's of my opinion that it was pretty easy to pick the bad out of that quote, as he actually says, "But our new stuff, the next-generation stuff we’re doing, there’s no way that it could run effectively on the Wii."

I didn't have to "dig" to pull that up.

What was said about "looking into" optimizing old tech for the Wii (again, not a confirmation, just them saying it was something they "might" look into) was just redeeming themselves, and you using that to make the quote appear entirely positive would be worse than me taking a direct quote and saying that I hope this doesn't become a trend, what with Epic basically saying the exact same thing about their next-gen engine.

You can save all of the debate on old technology, because it was nothing that I disputed. Of course people are going to be able to take old tech and do amazing things with it. Duh.  I was specifically referring to what was in the quote, and the possible ramifications of it, and nothing outside of that. So stop trying to pick a debate because I'm the pessimist.  

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Well, it's of my opinion that it was pretty easy to pick the bad out of that quote, as he actually says, "But our new stuff, the next-generation stuff we’re doing, there’s no way that it could run effectively on the Wii."

When the negative is surrounded by certainly positive forward looking statements, "We have a bunch of brands and maybe we’ll look at partnering with somebody with some of our older technology that really would push the limits of the Wii and look at our brands and which are appropriate." And positive reaction to requests from other developers, at the very least, i'd call it looking for trouble.

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What was said about "looking into" optimizing old tech for the Wii (again, not a confirmation, just them saying it was something they "might" look into) was just redeeming themselves, and you using that to make the quote appear entirely positive would be worse than me taking a direct quote and saying that I hope this doesn't become a trend, what with Epic basically saying the exact same thing about their next-gen engine.

But I wasn't saying it was entirely positive. Rather that i'd see it as more positive that id is looking into developing a top class graphics engine for Wii (based on older tech) due to requests from developers that want one. Then negative because games that nativly won't run on Wii are not going to receive a port. Besides, I can't imagine that the ramifications of continued strong sales of Wii would be continued non-support.  

[KDR_11k]

Whatever happened to Commander Keen?

I think they sold the rights to someone else (or just lost them to the publisher or something), that someone made a crappy GBA game that didn't sell and decided not to try that again.

[Kairon]

The fact that Epic and iD are so cutting-edge centered actually opens up a market for newbies in the engine business. Like I said before about middleware, if middleware and engine companies want to specialize in this new field of Wii development, they can deliver a focused and targetted experience that can help them make their names whereas otherwsie they'd be crushed by uber established names like Epic or id.

Just like smaller developers can come to the Wii with confidence that they've got a better chance against the likes of established companies, smaller engine and middleware companies have a chance now that they should grab!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[MaryJane]

I agree with Kairon.

Also, the way I see it, you have to figure that all these companies were banking on the PS3 and have spent considerable amounts of money on developing HD engines.

It is also likely that they are modifying those same engines to develop better for the (possibly newer-version) Xbox360. The PS3 is not doing well, and as we all know a lot of companies are shifting their resources.

Now that would mean that even after realizing that their super expensive systems can't develop for the Wii, that they are still putting effort into making other things for the Wii.

Of course if they can save money by upgrading an older system they will! Hell, Nintendo's whole philosophy is with being inexpensive, for everybody, developer and consumer alike (except for controller prices IMHO).

This is an all around good thing. Games can be made at an inexpensive price because of "old" technology that will push the Wii graphical limits. Making it cheap makes it more readily available, especially for these indie developers I'm still waiting to see develop. (still hoping Sadness isn't  vaporware ::crosses fingers:: )

Really, what does it matter how it is being done? It is being done!

Edit: skipped two words lol

[KDR_11k]

Also, the way I see it, you have to figure that all these companies were banking on the PS3 and have spent considerable amounts of money on developing HD engines.

Actually they have been banking on the PC and the "next gen" consoles just happen to support most of the features.

[Ceric]

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Well, it's of my opinion that it was pretty easy to pick the bad out of that quote, as he actually says, "But our new stuff, the next-generation stuff we’re doing, there’s no way that it could run effectively on the Wii."

When the negative is surrounded by certainly positive forward looking statements, "We have a bunch of brands and maybe we’ll look at partnering with somebody with some of our older technology that really would push the limits of the Wii and look at our brands and which are appropriate." And positive reaction to requests from other developers, at the very least, i'd call it looking for trouble.

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What was said about "looking into" optimizing old tech for the Wii (again, not a confirmation, just them saying it was something they "might" look into) was just redeeming themselves, and you using that to make the quote appear entirely positive would be worse than me taking a direct quote and saying that I hope this doesn't become a trend, what with Epic basically saying the exact same thing about their next-gen engine.

But I wasn't saying it was entirely positive. Rather that i'd see it as more positive that id is looking into developing a top class graphics engine for Wii (based on older tech) due to requests from developers that want one. Then negative because games that nativly won't run on Wii are not going to receive a port. Besides, I can't imagine that the ramifications of continued strong sales of Wii would be continued non-support.

I have to disagree with "negative" being surrounded with "certainly positive forward looking statements" in that quote.  
"Maybe": They're not even sure they want to do that.
"partnering with somebody":  Read as someone else will be producing it actually and we are not going to take are considerable experience over the years of wrenching every last drop of graphical goodness out to this project.
"with some of our older technology": Pretty much whatever we happened to have done for the Gamecube is how I read that.  Which if memory serves wasn't much.  Also from what I read that you actually had to know how the system flowed to make the Gamecube shine.  Though once you do, I think it was Konami that stated(In regards to Karaoke Revolution), you could do some things that outshined the XBox.

In the end I don't know what they really intend but I can say that that was a lousy way to say what they were trying to get at.  Though that is becoming more and more prevalent with PR now days.  

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Ceric
In the end I don't know what they really intend but I can say that that was a lousy way to say what they were trying to get at.  Though that is becoming more and more prevalent with PR now days.

Too an extent, we're just going to have to disagree. I'm obviously an optimist here. id Software (as well I'd assume Epic, Valve, and other top developers) is interested in pursuing "revolutionary steps in graphics technology" and Wii's architecture won't allow for that. So its not in their interest to develop their current technology for it. Which is too bad. But despite this though they've expressed interest in developing past-gen tech for it due to developer requests and for what, I'd say, is there own monetary reasons since Wii is shĂ­t hot at the moment.

Now you're right, id software did not say anything was definite. You can't convince me though, as I said, that the ramifications (the results) of continued strong sales of Wii hardware and software would be continued "maybe" or non-support stances from id or the rest of the top developers. These top graphics developers are going to find something to put on Wii so they can rake in the cash. And from what id software said, in the quotation, it looks like their stance is if they (or on their behalf they have another developer) put something on Wii it's not going to be a cut rate hack job.

So i'd still say the article quotation was more positive then negative.

[segagamer12]

give me doom and quake and Ill be happy.