Topic: Wii stronger then the first Xbox ?

[jasonditz]

Don't forget the DS in all of this. Moreso than the PS3 or the 360 I see the DS as the real competitor for third party support.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I agree with pretty much all of what Smash has said, even though I still have this lingering fear about Nintendo screwing everything up, I think it is theres to lose this time around. You cannot say that about GC which struggled big time to get much support shortly after launch. Like Smash said when companies are dedicating teams for Wii development, you know you are on the right track.

[segagamer12]

so anyone thin Wii is more powerfull than Xbox 1?  

[GoldenPhoenix]

My guess is that down the line it will outperform Xbox graphically. With that said I'm not sure how to rank its "Power" though, because from what I heard it does some things better than Xbox 1 but some things it doesn't do or does worse, so I'm not sure what number you would use for "power".

[Smash_Brother]

I should probably add that Nintendo's success this time around would not have been possible without Sony royally dropping the ball: had they just released a more powerful PS2 and called it the PS3, they'd be doing much, much better than they are now.

But yeah, Nintendo's handling of the DS against the PSP is what truly convinced me that they might have their crap together after all. I know a lot of people say that Nintendo will never be dethroned in the handheld market, but I think that such is an exaggeration because just as many people also thought that the PSP is what would finally beat Nintendo in the handheld sector and it definitely had the tools to do so, including the Playstation brand-name which most of the PSPs sold were no doubt sold upon.

After E3, it was obvious Nintendo had something special on their hands with the Wii, so much so that their angry competitors cancelled their E3 appearances from then on out of spite. All Nintendo has to do is not screw it up and they'll be 1st place this gen. They've already started so right that they'd have to do a tremendous amount of botching now to send things in the wrong direction.

The Wii already has the faith of many developers and the fear of many others, as in the "fear" that they made a mistake by not supporting it earlier.

[Adrock]

I thought I was done with quote wars years ago, but I do enjoy a good debate.

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Icecold wrote:
You seem to keep forgetting the GameCube launch. It was lukewarm at best. The tie-in ratio definitely] proves gamers are coming back, because the GameCube had nowhere near the launch success of the Wii.

Gamecube at least had Melee 2 weeks after launch. If I didn't have a Wii, I could've gotten it's best game on a console I already had.

And can I have a link to this tie-ratio? Does it inculde VC games? And if I'm not mistaken, Wii Sports was sold separately everywhere else in the world and Wii Play is out everywhere except the US. Including Zelda, which according to smash_brother has an 85% tie-in, there's 3 of the 5.

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Hocotate wrote:
Third party support for the PS3 has been a joke, not the Wii. Tell me what is out now for the PS3 that is worth it please.

Resistance: Fall of Man is better than any 3rd party Wii title. Regardless, what is out now is only part of the big picture. 3rd parties are giving PS3 more love than Wii.

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Mario wrote:
Who gives a flying truck? Nobody. If you want blood, seek mental help and/or buy Mortal Kombat Wii.

It's not about blood. Gamecube got an assload of those kinds of titles and very little outside of games that appeal to that demographic. If these are the kinds of games Wii gets, then support hasn't really changed other than Nintendo more rushed kid's titles. Who cares? Any Nintendo fan should. I don't know about you but I wanr variety.

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smash_brother wrote:
It proves that a lot of GAMERS are buying the console, since they're picking up a total gamer game along with it.

I'd buy this argument if it was a 3rd party title or at least a 1st party title that isn't tied to an already established franchise. How does Zelda selling well surprise you? Even Wind Waker sold well and I was like the only person on the eastern seaboard who liked the graphics.

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How many 3rd party titles have YOU played?

I work at a video store. If it wasn't a movie/cartoon cash-in, I played it.

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Guess what? That support probably won't remain exclusive

You don't know that. And besides, if they don't remain exclusive, they'll go to 360 which still means Nintendo isn't getting those games. Both 360 and PS3 are individually getting more support from 3rd parties. How can you argue this?

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What are they bringing to the competition? Are you talking about the promise of MGS two years off? It ain't gonna stay exclusive, trust me.

I tried to ignore this the last 7 times you brought up Metal Gear Solid 4 being 2 years away. It's coming out at the end of this year. At least, Konami has shown the game to the public.

Most 3rd party titles are merely announced for Wii. We have no idea when many of them are coming out. I'm excited over Umbrella Chronicles, but Capcom has unveiled nothing about the game. When RE4 was announced, it took like 3 years for that game to come out. Additionally, we have a short trailer of The Crystal Bearers (despite Crystal Chronicles on GCN sucking every kind of ass there is). When is that game coming out? FFXIII may not be a 2007 title, but from the looks of it, neither is Crystal Bearers.

I'm curious. What are these big name 3rd party exclusives coming out on Wii this year? I can think of Dragon Quest Swords, No More Heroes, and maybe DDR: Hottest Party (though I have no idea when that's coming out). The biggest exclusives are still coming from Nintendo themselves.

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Why dismiss EA? They didn't get to be the largest 3rd party developer in the world because no one buys their games. On the contrary: EA is huge in the American market, a market where Nintendo typically gets clobbered, and yet EA offering such support for the Wii ensures that it will at least have the staple sports games for a game system in NA.

I dismiss EA because they've supported every major console, except Dreamcast. They supported Gamecube and their titles were basically ignored. It's almost a moot point that they're supporting Nintendo because their titles don't perform as well on Nintendo hardware.

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I understand being cynical. What I don't understand is acting like the competition has this tremendous leg up on the Wii when everything I've seen quite clearly indicates that it does NOT.

I'm not saying the competition has a tremendous leg up. I just see Wii as still fighting an upwards battle and there isn't enough reason right now to prove that they are necessarily winning that battle. As I said before...

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I wrote:
Nintendo isn't doomed. I'm not saying they're doomed, nor have I ever meant to say that. They're doing fine. It's just not as rosy as you're making out to be. My problem is when people are using early success as an indication that things have changed. I'd say things are in the process of changing but even that could change. As much as people like to brag about Wii doing well and PS3 not doing well, this picture isn't as clear as it seems. My fear is that as great as Nintendo is doing now, it won't last. It's too early.

I'm not trying to put a negative spin on Nintendo's success. They've done a great job so far. However, Nintendo fanboys are clamoring about Wii's success like Nintendo has already won. That's where I disagree.  

[ShyGuy]

So what were the prettiest games on the orignial Xbox? Chronicles of Riddik? Fable? what compares so far.

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Adrock

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Hocotate wrote:
Third party support for the PS3 has been a joke, not the Wii. Tell me what is out now for the PS3 that is worth it please.

Resistance: Fall of Man is better than any 3rd party Wii title. Regardless, what is out now is only part of the big picture. 3rd parties are giving PS3 more love than Wii.

A matter of opinion... Resistance seemed like a game I've played a million times before. Now Dragonball Z with a Wiimote, that's an original experience.

[Adrock]

That's also an opinion.

[GoldenPhoenix]

You know what proof I have that Wii has been expanding the market? I've talked to people still in High School and Wii along with Xbox 360 are quite popular. Not only that but at my college you hear about Wii about every day, that is a complete turn around from last generation where you would hear nothing but Halo and PS2.

[Terranigma Freak]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
That's also an opinion.

How's that an opinion? You can any other fighting games out there that controls like DBZ? You know any other First Person Shooters out there with soldiers running around with aliens?

[Mario]

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Resistance: Fall of Man is better than any 3rd party Wii title.

LOL

1. That is a Sony published title. It's more directly comparable to Excite Truck, which runs it down.
2. Not it isn't. BUT you can't say either way is a fact because people like different games! Going by sales more people think Red Steel is better. Though IMO Banana Blitz is better than both. Your points are just made up. You simply can not construct an argument like that.

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The biggest exclusives are still coming from Nintendo themselves.

Obviously the biggest games are going to come from the BIGGEST GAME COMPANY. Third party games don't have a history of expanding markets unless it's something groundbreaking like GTA3. Nintendos own games attracted way more NEW users to DS than all third party games combined.

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If these are the kinds of games Wii gets, then support hasn't really changed other than Nintendo more rushed kid's titles. Who cares? Any Nintendo fan should. I don't know about you but I wanr variety.

Variety, piss off. You're saying every colourful game is exactly the same. Guess what, if you replaced Pikmin enemies with tanks, it'd still be the exact same game, it would just have a more restricted audience.

I enjoy a good debate but this isn't even good, you're just making up things as you go along. It's not going to work anymore because this is my last post in this thread.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
That's also an opinion.

Not really, everything I've heard about the game is that it doesn't really do anything new, not to say it doesn't do it well, but it still plays like a basic 1st person shooter. Not only that but the company that created it may be "officially" 3rd party but they've been basically a Sony exclusive developer so that does not count. Also considering the fact that it has been the ONLY game on PS3  that has gotten any kind of praise says alot as well, with the rest being ports, or average to subpar games. I also would like to add that since Sony is not that great of a 1st party developer they funneled alot of their cash into Resistance to be their "killer app" so that also should be taken into account.

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
That's also an opinion.

Absolutely... I'm just saying, Resistance may be great for some people, and it's certainly visually impressive, but I found myself thinking that it brought nothing to the table that I wanted that I couldn't already have gotten from Timesplitters: Future Perfect

[Adrock]

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Mario wrote:
Variety, piss off. You're saying every colourful game is exactly the same. Guess what, if you replaced Pikmin enemies with tanks, it'd still be the exact same game, it would just have a more restricted audience.

You're getting irritated by posts on an internet forum.... Sigh... Piss off? Whatever, dude.

You're oversimplifying my point or rather changing it entirely. Publishers are putting the same exact types of games on Wii. I fear we'll keep getting more and more of these games. We saw this happen on GCN. 3rd parties released tons of titles aimed at the younger demographic, many of them were ports. PS2 and Xbox got way more exclusives, across different genres. Right now, this hasn't really changed on Wii. I don't mind kid's titles, they play games too. However, a real change would see 3rd parties releasing games across different genres and age groups on Wii for different types of gamers. Wii would get all kinds of games, not just titles clearly aimed at younger gamers. Despite Nintendo's best efforts, Wii is still viewed as a "kid's console." I don't agree with it, but when a company like Konami unveils a game like Dewey's Adventure, I can't help but think back to what happened to Gamecube.

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I enjoy a good debate but this isn't even good, you're just making up things as you go along. It's not going to work anymore because this is my last post in this thread.

You will be missed.

[jasonditz]

You mean things like the Godfather?

[Adrock]

Yeah, but Godfather is on other platforms.

Look, I'm not saying 3rd party support is absolutely terrible. It's improved from Gamecube, but it's no where near where it should be. I think we can all agree that Wii is doing exceptionally well in the market as of today. That being so, I don't think Nintendo's current 3rd party support reflects the recent success. That's why I'm not celebrating yet. Nintendo is still in the middle of a long battle. 3rd parties are watching the console closely, but they haven't really committed themselves to Wii. The largest teams are still being devoted to creating PS3 and 360 titles. I think Wii might see that support eventually, but it isn't here yet so I remain skeptical until that changes.

[segagamer12]

no sh*t besides that theres also scarface and Mk armageddon, another game GC didnt get, serioulsy dude your losing the argument so nows a good time to get out.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Um I've experienced anything BUT Wii being considered a kids console. I've seen people from age 10 to 79 enjoying it, and like I said it is a pretty hot topic around campus which the GC never had the luxury of. So I wonder if this "kids" image is just in your head if not it would be interesting to know where you are getting it. AT the moment I'm seeing a console flying off the shelves that stores can't keep in stock with a wide variety games ranging from games like Zelda to Red Steel, to CoD3, to Elebits, to Rayman to WarioWare, to racing, to Madden etc etc. If that isn't variety I don't know what is, the Wii has quite a bit variety and I think it is a complete exagerration that "kids" games are the only ones coming out for it, probaly no more so than PS3 or Xbox 360 at the moment.

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Yeah, but Godfather is on other platforms.

So are all those kid's titles.  

[Crave]

To the ones who were kind enough to notice "then" was incorrectly used when in fact "than" should have been...here is your cookie (insert golf clap here).

Well, I see so far we have had quite the discussion.  I see that a picture of Super Mario Galaxy was posted pretty early on in the thread, goodie one great looking game, oh yeah and MP3, any others? Show me a great looking 3rd pty title that pushes last gen cube status.  At no time did I say the Wii was not as powerful as the Xbox 1, the topic title itself is in the form of a question.  Honestly,  nothing seems to do what I KNOW the Wii can do.  RE4 for example, amazing game right...developers pushed the Gamecube to this limit. So my question and frustration is, why is this NOT the starting point for first gen Wii games?  Oh they didn't have the dev kits in time...give me a break. Didn't developers just spend the last several years developing for the Gamecube? So we should see some great looking first gen Wii titles, and expect 1st gen Wii control at least.  The whole reason for this post was to point out that I see alot of LAZY work, wall filler I call it,  being released, and not kind of quality we all come to expect from Nintendo and it's developers. I know they can do better, which is why it upsets me.

Thanks to all who have added to this post.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Crave
To the ones who were kind enough to notice "then" was incorrectly used when in fact "than" should have been...here is your cookie (insert golf clap here).

Well, I see so far we have had quite the discussion.  I see that a picture of Super Mario Galaxy was posted pretty early on in the thread, goodie one great looking game, oh yeah and MP3, any others? Show me a great looking 3rd pty title that pushes last gen cube status.  At no time did I say the Wii was not as powerful as the Xbox 1, the topic title itself is in the form of a question.  Honestly,  nothing seems to do what I KNOW the Wii can do.  RE4 for example, amazing game right...developers pushed the Gamecube to this limit. So my question and frustration is, why is this NOT the starting point for first gen Wii games?  Oh they didn't have the dev kits in time...give me a break. Didn't developers just spend the last several years developing for the Gamecube? So we should see some great looking first gen Wii titles, and expect 1st gen Wii control at least.  The whole reason for this post was to point out that I see alot of LAZY work, wall filler I call it,  being released, and not kind of quality we all come to expect from Nintendo and it's developers. I know they can do better, which is why it upsets me.

Thanks to all who have added to this post.

Well besides Capcom I don't think many 3rd parties really tried to push the GC  much, they mostly ported their games over that were developed for PS2 and were done with it. So that compounded with the delay in development kits contributed to the lack of visual oomph, along with flat out lazy ports.

[Chiller]

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Originally posted by: Crave
The whole reason for this post was to point out that I see alot of LAZY work, wall filler I call it,  being released, and not kind of quality we all come to expect from Nintendo and it's developers. I know they can do better, which is why it upsets me.

Thanks to all who have added to this post.

I think many would agree with that assessment.  I suppose that, until they see a reason to stop being lazy, they will continue doing so.  I think a lot of developers are still pensive.  It seems they are waiting for a chance to say "see, there goes Nintendo, dropping the ball, again."  IN the meantime, they will cram whatever they can down our throats, in an effort to accumulate a few quick sales before the buzz wears off.

[Hocotate]

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Originally posted by: Adrock

Resistance: Fall of Man is better than any 3rd party Wii title. Regardless, what is out now is only part of the big picture. 3rd parties are giving PS3 more love than Wii.

Well there goes any credibility you could've hoped to have had here.... I'm debating whether I should quote that in my sig or not, but I wouldn't want to crush what little credibility you'd have left from the people who didn't see your post.

Since your taste in games is obviously very different from mine, we'll go by the sales... Tell me how well the PS3 software is selling.  

[Adrock]

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segagamer12 wrote:
besides that theres also scarface and Mk armageddon, another game GC didnt get, serioulsy dude your losing the argument so nows a good time to get out.

You're coming at me with Wii ports of last generation games. That says more about what Vivendi and Midway think of Wii. Those are total cash-in titles. Yeah, publishers need to make money, but they can make money releasing new titles instead.

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jasonditz wrote:
So are all those kid's titles.

Yes, BUT after the ports, Nintendo still had more games aimed strictly for kids while other platforms get these cool exclusives across different genres, kids games included. Where were the fighting games? Where were the RPGs? Where were the first person shooters?

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Crave wrote:
So my question and frustration is, why is this NOT the starting point for first gen Wii games? Oh they didn't have the dev kits in time...give me a break. Didn't developers just spend the last several years developing for the Gamecube? So we should see some great looking first gen Wii titles, and expect 1st gen Wii control at least. The whole reason for this post was to point out that I see alot of LAZY work, wall filler I call it, being released, and not kind of quality we all come to expect from Nintendo and it's developers. I know they can do better, which is why it upsets me.

Yes, exactly.

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Hocotate wrote:
Well there goes any credibility you could've hoped to have had here.... I'm debating whether I should quote that in my sig or not, but I wouldn't want to crush what little credibility you'd have left from the people who didn't see your post.

Since your taste in games is obviously very different from mine, we'll go by the sales... Tell me how well the PS3 software is selling.

More childish insults...

I understand your point. They're NOT selling especially well YET PS3 is still getting the big name franchises. Maybe they'll get ported to 360, maybe not; the point is moot. If they get ported to 360 and not Wii, Nintendo still didn't get those games. Tell me why Final Fantasy XIII couldn't be made for Wii. Graphics is all I can think of so it's basically bullsh*t why games like that aren't coming to Wii. I think Final Fantasy XII looks PHENOMENAL on PS2. Imagine what they could do with Wii. Nintendo isn't getting those titles though. That's my point. Wii is flatout raping PS3... so why are those games still coming to PS3 and NOT Wii? That is why I don't buy everyone's assertion that PS3 support is dropping so greatly and support for Wii is that much different from Gamecube. Better, but not that much better. I believe Wii is the most attractive console. However, Wii is getting a lot of ass filler games. It's still not the priority to 3rd parties.

I'm waiting for major 3rd parties to step up and choose Wii over PS3 and 360 with games built from the ground up for Wii that won't be ever make it to a competing platform. I'd like to see new games though a major established franchise would also be proof of Nintendo's emerging 3rd party support. I remember when Capcom devoted the entire Resident Evil franchise to GCN... then built a PS2 version of RE4, even going as far as to repeatedly announce exclusivity then announce the PS2 version BEFORE the GCN version comes out. During the course of last generation, Capcom gave Nintendo 2 exclusives Resident Evil Zero and P.N. 03 while also supporting PS2 and Xbox with everything else that never made it to GCN. That's the kind of crap I'm weary of happening on Wii. Do I have any reason to believe otherwise? Not yet.