Topic: ordbogen.com

[ShyGuy]

I'm getting sick of this Red Steel snideness from the staff. User Review coming soon to shut down the haters!


Metroid Prime's boss battles were too hard for me. Let's hope the wiimote makes the difference.  

[Smash_Brother]

I loved the boss battles but they were so few and far between that it rapidly wasn't worth it.

They did get harder as you went on, but I probably didn't see the worst of them because I gave up on the game well before completion due to boredom.

[Ian Sane]

Metroid Prime 3 is likely what I'll buy a Wii for.  I prefered Metroid Prime 2 though I don't really have a solid reason for it.  I just didn't suck at it as much as I did at the first game so I liked it better.  Also no Chozo Ghosts.  I gave up at the last boss though.  The controls for the game are such that looking around is a big pain in the ass so they had the lock-in system.  Then the last boss requires you to look up the whole time?  Huh?  Who's stupid idea was that?

The only suggestions I would make for improvement are:
1. Cut out the stupid scavenger hunt at the end.  No one will care if the game is two hours shorter.

2. Make it so scans automatically save.  Nothing drives me nuts more than dying and then having to rescan EVERYTHING between save points.  I know keeping those scans as done is unrealistic but neither is coming back to life.  It's a videogame so stuff like that is acceptable and I think everyone would appreciate the user-friendliness.

3. Make the enemies easier when backtracking.  Backtracking and respawning enemies are part of the Metroid formula but Metroid Prime didn't quite get it right.  In the 2D Metroid games the first time you encounter an enemy it's hard but when you return to that spot when backtracking you've since gotten a better beam so you just own his ass and your new suit makes his attacks less damaging.  Thus the return encounters are quick like they should be.  In Metroid Prime though it's like every room has a battle that takes a few minutes each time.  Either make it so I can just plow through those guys the further I get in the game OR replace that elaborate Space Pirate battle with an easier enemy after I've already beaten it once.  When I'm backtracking I just want to explore the area and get from point A to point B.  I don't want have 50 epic battles along the way.

It seems all of my complaints are about stuff likely added in to artificially inflate game length.  I don't care how short the game is.  As long as the total time is comparable to Super Metroid and the game is great who cares?  The 2D Metroid games take very little time to complete if you know what you're doing.  The length comes from figuring everything out.

Oh and I strongly oppose any ideas to make Metroid Prime play more like a traditional FPS.  I really wish Nintendo would just make a new franchise for all the Halo fans and let the Metroid fans have Metroid.  Nintendo didn't listen to the jerks who complained Ocarina of Time didn't have a jump button so why did they add multiplayer to Metroid Prime 2 and make Metroid Prime Hunters?  Not everything needs to have a familar face on the cover.  Make a new deathmatch FPS franchise and call it a day.  As Halo proves if you market the thing worth a damn a new franchise can become huge.  In fact that probably would sell better than any Metroid game anyway.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane Oh and I strongly oppose any ideas to make Metroid Prime play more like a traditional FPS.  I really wish Nintendo would just make a new franchise for all the Halo fans and let the Metroid fans have Metroid.  Nintendo didn't listen to the jerks who complained Ocarina of Time didn't have a jump button so why did they add multiplayer to Metroid Prime 2 and make Metroid Prime Hunters?  Not everything needs to have a familar face on the cover.  Make a new deathmatch FPS franchise and call it a day.  As Halo proves if you market the thing worth a damn a new franchise can become huge.  In fact that probably would sell better than any Metroid game anyway.

Agreed.

It was the "epic backtracking battles" and the "What breaks this rock?" memory game which killed MP2 for me.

If they had a system in which you could select a weapon and see on the map where all of the barriers you've seen that can be broken with it exist, then it would have been more tolerable.

[zakkiel]

Quote
Nevermind the naysayers -- they're the same weaklings who didn't like Majora's Mask and whine when they don't see green grass, icy temples and fire mountains. Echoes runs its own course without "copying" the usual fire/water/forest level design Zelda likes to depend on. The only drawback is the dry, rocky hub world and the desert-like, music-devoid beginning at Agon Wastes. But you'll notice the game intentionally starts off "quietly" and ramps up intensity as you get deeper into the other sections of the planet (this is in contrast to MP1's "exciting" Space Station Orpheon intro level, ending with you dragging through the grungy quiet Phazon Mines toward the end; it didn't "pickup" until you got to Omega Pirate.) And, my gawd, the morph ball puzzles... =D

So you're saying everyone disliked MP2 because instead of the traditional fire/water/forest levels it had the traditional desert/swamp/sci-fi levels? Innovative settings are not the strong suit of any Nintendo franchise except perhaps Mario, which is completely surreal.

Me, I can't quite put my finger on why I didn't find MP2 compelling, but I returned to it multiple times and finally gave up.  

[Svevan]

Quite a bit of things to respond to since my last post, but I'll pick just this:

Quote
If [Corruption] has 1/3rd the amount of backtracking that Echoes did, I'll be passing on it for sure.

Please don't be worried - Retro told Jonny at E3 that they heard the backtracking complaints and will be minimizing it this time around. Go read the interview from E3 (I'll link to it later), it's got tons of great info.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I gave up at the last boss [for MP2].  The controls for the game are such that looking around is a big pain in the ass so they had the lock-in system.  Then the last boss requires you to look up the whole time?  Huh?  Who's stupid idea was that?

Just so you know, that's not the last boss.  You missed out on some good fun.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

HOLD ME BACK

BRING IT ON

METROID REDSTEAK HATE THREAD

~~~~~

*MP2 SPOILER* -- Why MP2's so called last boss fight is easy aka Ian needs to solve his tunnel vision problem before opening his mouth or touching a keyboard (save as, DivX)
Having to look "UP" is a matter of orientation and perspective.  If you LET your opponent hold you down like a bitch then you're creating the problem for yourself.

[Smoke39]

I never had a problem with backtracking in MP2.  Returning to previous areas after gaining a new ability is a big part of Metroid.  I gave up on the emperor ing 'cause I couldn't figure out how to dodge its spinny attack, though.

[segagamer12]

i never said anyting about a Halo killer, but the comparison keeps getting made because MICROSOFT AND NINTENDO keep making and so does everybody else. god I hate peopel who cant accpet Metroid Prime IS a 1st person shooter, dont give me it has exploration and crap so do MOST good 1st person shooters. RED STEEL is a bad example of a 1t person shooter BTW, still a decent game but not the best to compare it with.


Take DOOM, Doom has always been about exploration and unlocking secrets, not just shootting p enemies. Halo is the same way.

If you dont want to compare it to Halo DONT, but as a fan of BOTH series I DO make the comparison because so does everybody  I know.

MP was my second favorite GC game and I havent gotten aroudn to hunting down echoes yet as its pretty elusive around here. I have tried MP:Huinters and loved that espcialy yhe online and regardless of if it compares to HAlo ro not the point it we were PROMISED ONLINE for four years with the GC and echoes WAS one of the so called games promised to have online.

Nintendo NEVER delivered on that promise and they are hloding back this gen as well. If MP3 doesnt go online and they decide to AGAIN hold off they could very well piss alot of peopel off, myself included.

It is not weather or not the game competes with Halo, I will be getitng 360 for Halo 3 anyways among other games, since price will be going down soon.

What I DO care is if the game on Wii I was looking forward to delivers in every area I ws expecting. Nevermind COD3 was hurt by not having online (trend set by GC and I dont care if the API or whatever excuse the give BS is true or not) they had DS online for a year they COULD have had SOMETHING by now. Yet I am willing to forgive that IF they bring the games PROMISED to be online, ONLINE.

Feel free to disagree but that is they way I feel about it and arguing wont change that.  

[Hostile Creation]

Man, Nintendo World Report forumers really suck at video games.
Seriously, did you try to fight the boss once then give up?  I beat Emperor Ing on the first try, though I may have died while fighting Dark Samus (and no spoiler cuz you should have beat it by now).  But I beat the whole game on hard mode without much trouble.
GET BETTER AT GAMES THEN WE'LL TALK

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan Please don't be worried - Retro told Jonny at E3 that they heard the backtracking complaints and will be minimizing it this time around. Go read the interview from E3 (I'll link to it later), it's got tons of great info.

Best news I've heard all day...even better than DQ9, actually.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel

Quote
Nevermind the naysayers -- they're the same weaklings who didn't like Majora's Mask and whine when they don't see green grass, icy temples and fire mountains. Echoes runs its own course without "copying" the usual fire/water/forest level design Zelda likes to depend on. The only drawback is the dry, rocky hub world and the desert-like, music-devoid beginning at Agon Wastes. But you'll notice the game intentionally starts off "quietly" and ramps up intensity as you get deeper into the other sections of the planet (this is in contrast to MP1's "exciting" Space Station Orpheon intro level, ending with you dragging through the grungy quiet Phazon Mines toward the end; it didn't "pickup" until you got to Omega Pirate.) And, my gawd, the morph ball puzzles... =D

So you're saying everyone disliked MP2 because instead of the traditional fire/water/forest levels it had the traditional desert/swamp/sci-fi levels? Innovative settings are not the strong suit of any Nintendo franchise except perhaps Mario, which is completely surreal.

Me, I can't quite put my finger on why I didn't find MP2 compelling, but I returned to it multiple times and finally gave up.

Two Words.  Alpha B-something or another.  I never beat that part.  First it takes me roughly 30 minutes on a good run from the closest save point and then I get cremated and I have to do it all over again.  No thank you.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Two Words.  Alpha B-something or another.  I never beat that part.  First it takes me roughly 30 minutes on a good run from the closest save point and then I get cremated and I have to do it all over again.  No thank you.

^ I'm sorry, you got past the Boost Guardian but not the Alpha Blogg?  YOU'RE PRIVILEDGES TO NINTENDO INTERNETTING HAVE BEEN REVOKED, SIR.  LEARN TO USE THE SIDE-STEP DASH.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
I never had a problem with backtracking in MP2.  Returning to previous areas after gaining a new ability is a big part of Metroid.  I gave up on the emperor ing 'cause I couldn't figure out how to dodge its spinny attack, though.

^ See my video several posts above, sir.  THEN COME BACK APOLOGIZE TO THE NINTENDO INTERNETS.  Wave at Ceric on your way back.  His internetting priviledges have been revoked so he's locked out to spend community service time selling Halo1 to japanese citizens on the street.

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Man, Nintendo World Report forumers really suck at video games.
Seriously, did you try to fight the boss once then give up?  I beat Emperor Ing on the first try, though I may have died while fighting Dark Samus (and no spoiler cuz you should have beat it by now).  But I beat the whole game on hard mode without much trouble.
GET BETTER AT GAMES THEN WE'LL TALK

^ Word.  

[Smoke39]

I did watch your video.  I might try gain if I actually cared anymore.  Is there really that much more to see after the stupid emperor ing?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The video covers phase 1 of a 3-phase boss fight with Emperor Ingo.  And it's arguable Emperor Ingo is not the final boss.

But oh well, MP3 will get cancelled anyway in favor of Wii Sports / Wii Dogs / Wii Tax Return / Wii Laundry / Wii Bathroom Cleaner sequels.  

[Amodaus1]

Wow i never knew so many people who didn't finish MP or echos, and for that matter who didn't like it... thats a real shame. Old nes games were damn hard, and through the generations nintendo has gotten around to making some stupidly easy games out of their franchizes (fun, but damn easy). MP and echos are the lifeline for those of us who acctually want a challenge thats both puzzle and BATTLE oriented. I like fighting those pirates EVERY TIME, i don't want easier enemies to respawn, in fact i want the whole map to be littered with high level difficulty enemies, not easy ones that don't require 2 cents of though but to  hit one button.

[Smash_Brother]

Here's the thing with MP...

First, I thought MP1 was fine for backtracking. Not too much and nowhere near what MP2 had.

Second, the DS Castlevanias (and I'm assuming most CVs) are essentially Metroid clones, except that you have an exp counter and you level up, thus, even when fighting redundant enemies for the nth time, you're still getting something from it in the form of experience.

Such was not the case with Metroid, and after fighting the same eternal-spawn flying pirate for the 10th time because I'm running around trying to remember where I saw rocks made of benzoingium, it got old. At least Castlevania compensated you for killing these enemies. In MP, the rewards only come after bosses and puzzles.

But less backtracking gives me hope. It was a stellar game otherwise: beautiful graphics, great puzzles, awesome bosses...just all sandwiched between lots of time spent retracing your steps over and over again.

[ShyGuy]

Can't talk now, I'm on my way to Gamestop to reserve a copy of Wii Bathroom Cleaner. 1-to-1 toilet brush motion control FTW!  

[Armak88]

Props to amodaus1,

If you can't deal with difficulty, play a mario game, or kirby, or something shiney and fun. I'm not saying that I don't love these games, or that they don't have their own difficult parts, but to me MP 1+2 were games that finally made me work for anything I got. The market has just been so flooded with crap and easy to beat garbage that people have gone soft and start complaining when a worthwhile challenge comes allong.

I'm willing to admit that all fans of the metroid series should get a fair crack at beating the games, but decreasing the difficulty brings metroid closer to mediocrity, and the last thing I want is for metroid to become another bland title. If you didn't complete the game then you missed out on a cool ending, and it's your fault. I'm sorry i have so very little sympathy for you, but my 12 year old brother beat the game a week after I did, so I don't know what your excuse is.

I don't mind if they cut back on the large scale backtracking in MP3, because it's something that isn't a high priority on the list of things that made the first two games great, but I still want to be challenged by the fights, the puzzles and the bosses.

[Smoke39]

Amodaus, the thing about the MP games is that they have difficulty levels.  No one should ever have to say that a game with configurable difficulty was too easy or too hard for them.  The range of difficulties should be wide enough to accomodate everyone's taste (and, preferably, changable in the middle of the game).

Smash, the problem with the experience in the Castlevania games, imo, is level grinding.  I hate level grinding.  Finding and figuring out how to get at hidden energy/missile tanks is a lot more rewarding.

Edit: Armak, that's really harsh.  Not everyone plays games for a tough challenge.

[Armak88]

Smoke: I don't play every game for a tough challenge either, but i'm saying that I appreciated it from the Metroid games. I even would say that I enjoyed the star fox adventures: dinosaur planet game that my brother got for GCN. As long as I'm having fun in a game, I will buy it, play through it and recommend it to others. Metroid just gave me something different that I don't get from a lot of other games and I don't want to lost that.

[Smoke39]

My point is that making the lowest difficulty setting easy for novices doesn't mean that the highest can't be made to be hard for experts.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39 Smash, the problem with the experience in the Castlevania games, imo, is level grinding.  I hate level grinding.  Finding and figuring out how to get at hidden energy/missile tanks is a lot more rewarding.

I never ground for levels even once in Dawn of Sorrow, just played through the game and that was enough leveling.  

[Ian Sane]

"Take DOOM, Doom has always been about exploration and unlocking secrets, not just shootting p enemies"

What DOOM were you playing?  I got DOOM Collector's Edition for my brother last Christmas and have played it quite a lot recently.  The game is like Contra from the first person.  It's just kill or be killed with a few keys thrown in to add a logical path to the levels.  The resemblence of it to something like Metroid is practically non-existent.

I maintain my position that Metroid Prime is not a first person shooter, should NEVER play like one, and that anyone who wants it to ain't no Metroid fan.  That's why I want Nintendo to make a NEW FPS franchise and compare that to Halo and quit trying to shoehorn Metroid into something it isn't and what Metroid fans don't want.

Regarding difficulty Metroid has always been harder than something similar like Zelda.  The bosses should be reasonably difficult.  You should die a few times.  But I always feel that a game should be challenging in a rewarding way.  You should still be having fun.  Fighting Chozo Ghosts for the hundreth time when backtracking isn't fun.  It's a damn chore.  It's a cheap way for the developer to extend the length of the game.  Those Grenchler things in Metroid Prime 2 are harder than most of the bosses.  That's an inconsistency in the difficulty.  Regular enemies shouldn't be as hard as a boss fight.  Bosses should also get gradually harder.  Difficulty should increase in a logical manner so that you get better at the game at the same rate the game gets more difficult.  Nothing's worse then plowing through the first few hours and then suddenly having a huge jump in difficulty come out of nowhere.  I think the most important thing in any game is that you should feel like you can beat it while also being challenged.  Even if you got creamed the first time you know you can get better.

A lot of people bring up the NES era for difficulty.  Honestly a lot of that was bullsh!t.  Most games had broken cheating game design that was largely unfair.  There's a reason why as we got to the 16 bit era games got easier.  I can't play the original Metroid because it's too frustrating.  You can't shoot diagonally yet enemies can move diagonally.  When you die you get a really small amount of health back.  And there is no indication at all where to go.  Super Metroid manages to still be challenging without gimping the player.  Most NES games are hard because the game doesn't give you the proper tools to succeed without some luck or incredible patience.  We put up with it because we were kids with lots of free time, limited funds that forced us to stick to one game until our next birthday, and nothing else to compare things to.

Now I agree that today games are too easy.  They've gone too far and thus we get games like Wind Waker, the first Zelda game I ever beat without dying once.  There needs to be a balance.  I think in the 16-bit era they really nailed it down.  They didn't have all the limitations on the player that made games harder than they needed to be while at the same time they weren't dumbed down.  They gave you hints but didn't tell you exactly where to go.  They gave you the tools to defend yourself but didn't make the enemies into wimps.

Ideally Metroid should have multiple difficulty settings.  After all it attracts gamers who like thinking games and gamers who like reflex games.  Multiple difficulty levels would allow everyone to play something that works for them.  Such a design makes a game accessable to a wide audience without being stupidly easy.