Topic: The Nintendo Wii Cube

[Crave]

Honestly, I would have to say after finishing Zelda that I am very happy with the title. Knowing that this was originally created for the Gamecube, the graphics are surpurb, and at times, aww inspiring.  The controller's are very innovative, and Wii Sports is alot of family fun.

With that said and with the exception of Splinter Cell... which I have yet to play,  nothing so far look's anything beyond perhaps a first gen Cube title ..or poorly ported PS2 title.  The Wii is 2x's more powerful then the Gamecube, yet we have yet to see proof of that. In my opinion it would have been a little comforting for some gamers (me being one of them)  to release Metriod Prime 3 to show off the Wii's graphical prowess..and Zelda to please the masses.  Point being, I HOPE that in time we see the Wii's "basic" graphical potential be used, and the end of the developers pressing the "Easy" button for profit.

Virtual Console...need some of the classic "arcade" titles as well..... If they "do" eventually work out the legal issues and get Goldeneye for the VC...here are to the hopes of "KILLER INSTINCT" arcade being brought forth and out of the ashes of the past.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Every new console's graphic potential is underwhelming to start, since Wii is a much smaller jump than previous generations that is made even more obvious. No need to worry though with time it will be pushed to its limits, remember even the Xbox 360 had many games that looked no better than Xbox, especially the ports.

[Crave]

Yes, but even the Xbox used it's basic potential at the start...lighting..effects etc. Wii has yet to do that. I know over time they should get better, but for now I would be happy with using the systems "basic" potential, not the Gamecubes'.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Crave
Yes, but even the Xbox used it's basic potential at the start...lighting..effects etc. Wii has yet to do that. I know over time they should get better, but for now I would be happy with using the systems "basic" potential, not the Gamecubes'.

Then again Wii is closer to GameCube than Xbox 360 was to Xbox, so that explains the difference. So Wii's basic potential is GameCube quality.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

More like devs did what they could manage thanks to short-notice cheapo GameCube dev kits + fancy controller.

[Crave]

The Wii's basic potential is not utilized at all. Gamecube's basic potential is Gamecube...period. Wii's "basic" potential can be seen in Metriod Prime 3 footage.

www.nintendoworldreport.com/gameArt.cfm?artid=11869  = garbage.

There is no excuse for this lazy creation. Guess what....Ubisoft had early dev kits, this is nothing more then an attempt  to cash in on what seems to be a cancelled PS2 title with Wii controls added.  What make's it all worth while is that the game is sooo bad it has a small chance to see profit, or regain development cost's (if there were any).  And what about Excite Truck...Nintendo of all people know the potential, and had the dev kit's from the get go. Here is a quote I happen to agree with "Ultimately, Excite Truck feels more like a tech demo than a full-fledged game"  While a few titles are good, Nintendo was content to launch with nothing more then a little glitter, and alot of wall filler.  I disagree with the late launch of Dev kit's in this matter due to the fact these two companies had them early enough to make a difference, but decided not too.    

[Nick DiMola]

Quote
Originally posted by: Crave
Here is a quote I happen to agree with "Ultimately, Excite Truck feels more like a tech demo than a full-fledged game"

I heartily disagree with that statement. Somehow I have managed to clock a good 15 hours into that "tech demo."

As far as potential goes, the Wii just came out. People were programming Wii games with Gamecube dev kits and limited knowledge of how to implement motion control. Can you guess where the bulk of dev time and money went for these launch titles? Remember when every other system in the history of videogames came out, there was one focus and that was improving graphics from the last generation (sans the N64 which a move to 3D naturally changed graphics). This means extensive time was put into the graphics rather than the gameplay. This is evident in the Cube launch. I would hold your horses till devs feel comfortable with the implementation of motion control before you expect them to start producing fantastic visuals.  

[Crave]

So Excite Truck is the quality product you should come to expect from Nintendo?  

"I would hold your horses till devs feel comfortable with the implementation of motion control before you expect them to start producing fantastic visuals".

Nintendo did publish, and work on Excite Truck....I don't see your point as mentioned above. Nintendo should have been able to provide both. In all honestly, I would have to say Nintendo "pegged" the controls quite well. So...the question is, why not have both control and visuals included with the launch title? I feel Nintendo rushed Excite Truck just so they could say "See, we have a launch title".  Give credit where credit is due, don't try to cover up the obvious.  
     

[GoldenPhoenix]

Delaying the development kits is not a new thing, in fact through my talks with Microsoft project leads, specifically the Project Gotham Racing 3 project lead, development kits were not finalized until within a year of the launch of the XBox 360. So this is not a unique phenomena, and yes I agree many of the launch games were rushed, but I think it is a bit unfair to call Excite Truck a tech demo. Tech Demos do not received the solid scores Excite Truck has, and definately are not as fun as Excite Truck.

In regards to Wii's basic potential, the way you made it sound was that Xbox 360's basic potential was realized at launch which indicates that even though the launch games were not the most pretty that they reached its basic potential. Since Wii is basically a GameCube in both its architecture and power (2-3 times is not that much of a boost), basic potential would have to be that of a GameCube calibur graphics, especially at launch with the tighter deadlines.  

[Bill Aurion]

I know when I'm playing Excite Truck (which, considering it's the most fun non-Mario Kart racing game I've ever played, calling it a tech demo is a hilarious insult to every other racing game ever...) I'm not wondering why it doesn't have the greatest visuals ever...Good job taking the fun out of gaming, Crave...

[IceCold]

[GoldenPhoenix]

Me love gorgeous looking CGI esque spider from Mario Galaxy!

[Nick DiMola]

Quote
Originally posted by: Crave
So Excite Truck is the quality product you should come to expect from Nintendo?

Yes. It meets all the criteria for me. When I sit down and play it, there is an undeniable charm to the game, it has something that I've never experienced with a racing game before and it is unique in so many ways. Not to mention whenever I play the game it is damn fun. Are the graphics the best ever? Nope and I don't give a sh!t.

Crave if graphics is your concern, in all seriousness, buy an Xbox 360 or a PS3. These two systems are focused on providing the best looking graphics and they will satisfy your desires. I for one am sick of the graphics race. Gameplay has always been more important to me. Gamecube games got to the point where I felt the graphics were good enough, I would rather see sparkling innovations in gameplay before I would like to see 10 billion polygons pushed.

[Crave]

You should really re-read my post, for you obviously missed the entire subject topic.  Nintendo and Ubisoft could have produced MUCH better graphics (Look at Metroid Prime 3) My doubt is not wether the Wii can pull off both great controls, and graphics...it's that the titles I am refering too were rushed and in no way are they a polished product.  The quality is far from what I would expect from Nintendo. And if you want to reply I would suggest being "honest" about the topic rather than taking a one sided approach.  In no way am I attacking the Wii...but criticizing the developers for begin lazy.    

[Ian Sane]

"Every new console's graphic potential is underwhelming to start"

That is a current trend for THIS gen.  Prior to that though, at least on Nintendo consoles, the graphics increased significantly right from the start.  Super Mario World crushed every NES game's visuals.  Rogue Leader beat the pants off of every N64 game's graphics.  Super Mario 64 is debatable since we're comparing 2D to 3D but it was way beyond any of the few SNES 3D games like Star Fox.

No one makes full use of the hardware at launch but launch games traditionally looked like there were impossible to accomplish on the previous hardware.  Zelda not only could have been made on the Cube it actually was and will be released in a short period of time.  It certainly would have been nice if motion control wasn't the only thing seperating Wii launch titles from Cube games considering the hardware is capable of it.

Those that say gameplay is more important, you're right but there is no rule that great gameplay and great graphic can't co-exist.  Gameplay over graphics makes more sense than graphics over gameplay but in both cases you're settling and there is no reason to.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The main reason the graphics leap isn't as noticeable at launch:

A) Much more expensive
B) Visuals started leveling out after N64 era with no huge leaps in visual quality
C) It takes more and more time to program good visuals

[Smoke39]

Crave, rushed =/= lazy.  Even if a developer works their asses off, they can still only get so much done in any given amount of time.  If you wanna criticize anyone, criticize Nintendo for taking so long to get final dev kits out to developers.

[Nick DiMola]

Quote
Originally posted by: Crave
My doubt is not wether the Wii can pull off both great controls, and graphics...it's that the titles I am refering too were rushed and in no way are they a polished product.

I still don't see your point. Just because the graphics aren't the best possible doesn't mean the game isn't polished. Red Steel wasn't a polished game. This was due to rough controls, evident bugs everywhere and just a general lack of quality. In my opinion, this title's lack of polish hurt it. The polish factor had nothing to do with the graphics though. Excite Truck had none of these problems. The game worked well and looked pretty damn good IMHO. That means there is some polish there. They didn't have to go over the top with the graphics to accomplish their goal. A game like Metroid Prime 3 needs to look fantastic and play PERFECTLY because it is part of a long line of outstanding games that raised the bar each generation.

Here is a good example to show off my point. Zelda. Does Zelda look amazing? Hell no. Does this mean Zelda isn't polished? If you think Zelda isn't polished you should reevaluate what you mean by polish. Crave, you are welcome to disagree with me, I just don't see what you are getting at. Of course they could've produced games with a higher graphical prowess, but what ultimately is the payoff. Is it worth delaying a game to make the graphics better when the graphics don't add to the play experience? I say no. Gaming is meant to be fun. It doesn't always have to look perfect to be fun. This is the mentality of the Wii. If that mentality isn't for you, I can promise you will be complaining more in the future, because I doubt Wii games will ever live up to the potential you expect in terms of graphics.

[Crave]

Actually Zelda looks great...especally since it's original creation was for the Cube and is releasing in Dec. Matter of fact, at times I find Zelda the most enjoyable, and visually satisfying title up to this point.  I think my definition of "polished" needs not to be defined.

Jack, you made my point. Red Steel looks great, but difficult controls.  GT Pro looks horrible but for the ratings, the control is said to be okay.  Soo...why should I blame Nintendo when...Ubi Soft made it quite apparent that they knew the Wii's architecture quite well for being first gen (Red Steel), and understood the control scheme to a point.  Why can't GT Pro look like Red Steel and play well to boot? It's not about graphical power now is it? It's about rush vs. take time and do it right. And Ubi Soft and Nintendo HAD time. That is my point, and subject of this thread.  Metroid Prime 3 looks great (Notice I am not trying to compare Xbox 360 or PS3 vs. Wii, that point it mute) My displeasure is with developers (including Nintendo) for rushing us product they could take time with, and in turn, present a more pleasurable experience. So it's not that they don't know the architecture (Nintendo/Ubi) ....Metroid Prime 3 was to be a launch title ...so there goes that theory about not being able to make a great looking game at launch (Delay you can bet was for perhaps 1 good reason. To release next year with online play, guaranteed) ..and Red Steel looks good, and "was" a launch title...so there goes "getting to know the basic power of the wii"  Anyway, now that you can understand that I am not comparing systems, you can see it's all about developers taking time and doing it right.  Hence, my point.  

[Ceric]

Mr. Jack I disagree with you.  Zelda does look pretty amazing.

[matt oz]

Yeah, Zelda looks amazing, but it could look even better.

why is this in General Chat though?

[Nick DiMola]

Zelda looks great as a Gamecube game, but in no way have I been blown away graphically, and as I have said before I really don't care. I think you missed what I meant Crave, Red Steel has no polish due to my stated reasons, but I didn't even touch its graphics. It may have seemed like I was saying the graphics were good, when in fact they are not. Not even close as a matter of fact . I understand that you want games that look great from developers with the know-how, but I am not in the least disappointed with any of the games graphically with the exception of Red Steel. Red Steel was rushed to production even though it was pretty clearly no where near done. I'm pretty sure Excite Truck's main focus wasn't the graphics, and for what it is, the visual style works.

Anyhow, I'm done beating this dead horse.