Topic: Why I Plan on Re-Buying All My Old School Games on VC

[Ceric]

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Originally posted by: Striderprime00

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They had to balence the price the customer is willing to pay with the money developers want to get back for their investment.

I pretty sure the developers has gotten their money back many times over.  These games are really old and the cost to develop them were pretty cheap relative to today.  They are absolutely not losing any money by re-releasing them on VC.

I know that I will only buy a handful of games on VC at the current price, but I would definitely have brought more on impulse at a lower price.

It would have helped if Nintendo allowed a time limit demo on these games. That way, I wouldn't mind investing $5 - $10 on games i have never played before.  Risking $5- $10 on a game that I might not enjoy, is kinda uncool.

Time demo would be cool but how do you do it?  I mean I just found out today that on the Zune the 3 plays you get when you et a shared song its not done by just starting the song.  It's really Listening to half the song are a minute of it whichever come first at that point it becomes a listen.

So how would you do that?  Some of the older games a demo time would allow people to beat the whole game without buying it.

Also consider who can get on the VC.  These are people who:

A) Have a wireless router at home
B) Sold into the concept enough to by the USB Network Adapter and have a true home network at home

These are the people that in general are ready to take a little chance on technology.  I don't think VC games even if they were half the price of a song on iTunes would necessarily ever be an impulse buy like music.  Just not happening.  Plus with the current setup I think the prices are fine because only the dedicated will tough it out.  The site loads up slow.  They haven't yet updated the front page.  Everything is New even when it isn't.  Theres no search feature and the scrolling is already getting interesting.

[Ian Sane]

"Sense of Security; One of the bigger reasons is the fact that this is pure game data we are talking about, not breakable cartridges that can get worn down."

I see it as the opposite.  Without a physical copy all of your games could be lost if your Wii gets damaged.  Yeah Nintendo will help you replace that games now but ten years from now?  Plus with digital content companies always have that bullsh!t "licence to use" crap.  Nintendo could probably complete kill the whole VC when their next console comes out and wipe out every game you've downloaded and get away with it legally.  They probably won't but the risk is always there with digitally stored content.  With a physical copy you're in control.  If you can get the working hardware you can play that game.

Honestly if the price of NES games was $1 I could see myself spending $100 on games for I never had an NES and that hardware is very unreliable.  As they are now I'd only buy a handful of games I really want.  As long as Nintendo keeps the prices up they will make less VC money from me because the prices are above my impulse buy range.  Fast food restaurants get less money for each purchase but fast food restaurants get more money from me because I visit them far more than higher priced "slow food" restaurants.  Chocolate bar companies probably make more money off of me than anyone else because they have an impulse product at a low price.  While I may download 100 $1 NES games I wouldn't necessarily download 20 $5 NES games.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Sense of Security; One of the bigger reasons is the fact that this is pure game data we are talking about, not breakable cartridges that can get worn down."

I see it as the opposite.  Without a physical copy all of your games could be lost if your Wii gets damaged.  Yeah Nintendo will help you replace that games now but ten years from now?  Plus with digital content companies always have that bullsh!t "licence to use" crap.  Nintendo could probably complete kill the whole VC when their next console comes out and wipe out every game you've downloaded and get away with it legally.  They probably won't but the risk is always there with digitally stored content.  With a physical copy you're in control.  If you can get the working hardware you can play that game.

Honestly if the price of NES games was $1 I could see myself spending $100 on games for I never had an NES and that hardware is very unreliable.  As they are now I'd only buy a handful of games I really want.  As long as Nintendo keeps the prices up they will make less VC money from me because the prices are above my impulse buy range.  Fast food restaurants get less money for each purchase but fast food restaurants get more money from me because I visit them far more than higher priced "slow food" restaurants.  Chocolate bar companies probably make more money off of me than anyone else because they have an impulse product at a low price.  While I may download 100 $1 NES games I wouldn't necessarily download 20 $5 NES games.

But you possibly might.  Also if Nintendo charged just $1 and you did buy 100 games I wonder how much they actually make in comparison to you just getting 15 games at $5?  First they have to release games quicker.  Second it would cost them more bandwidth.  Third it would put more strain on the Server meaning there life-cycle will be shortened.  In the long run this might be a low price at the moment I'm sure Nintendo will readjust it later if they feel they could get a better mix. (By adjusting the value of Wiipoints not the actual Wiipoint cost.)

[Chode2234]

Smash Brother:  Copyright infringement is a civil offense and not a criminal one.  The police really dont care or really enforce civil law.  Thats why the RIAA is sueing kids, and the FBI is not banging down their doors.

I think some patience is required.  The thing has only been out for less than 2 weeks, once they get the cream of the crop games released it will be awesome.  Prices are reasonable, but I wish you could demo games.  The Wii supply is being eaten by early adoptors who will buy anything Nintendo puts out.  They still have some time to release the games we all want to see.  But Ecco is awesome, I would just love to see Mario World.  

Do you think Nintendo loves us enought to release the Mario World, or will we have to buy every one seperately?  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Chode2234
Smash Brother:  Copyright infringement is a civil offense and not a criminal one.  The police really dont care or really enforce civil law.  Thats why the RIAA is sueing kids, and the FBI is not banging down their doors.

Exactly.

Unless Nintendo, Sega or whoever the developer is seeks damages against you, nothing will happen, and let's be honest: it's not worth the time or legal fees to seek damages unless they want to make an example out of someone and they happen to pick YOU.

[Spak-Spang]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: segagamer12
>>- All of them can be gotten for free online<<

not legally.

It's only illegal if you get caught, which you won't be.

In fact, I could probably download a pile of roms then try to turn myself in to a police station and see if I could actually get arrested for it but they'd probably turn me away saying I hadn't committed a crime.

However, the real reason to pay the fee for a virtual console game is so you can have the convenience and multiplayer in the comfort of your own living room.

$10 to play 4 player SSB on wavebirds? SOLD!

Illegal is Illegal.  This is splitting hairs and is stupid.

If I steal something from a store or neighbor I broke the law even if I didn't get caught.

If I kill someone it is still against the law and illegal even if I don't get caught.

I think your relative view on morality and legality scares the crap out of me.  And is what is wrong with America.  We all think we deserve something and that is RIGHT, even when it is WRONG.

[NWR_pap64]

Hence why I said the VC would be a way to LEGALLY support the companies and the makers and feel secure about it.

[Ceric]

Hey wait... Smash you have a Roomba if I remember right... I want your Roomba.  So can I come up and take it?

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
You're also paying $60 for an XBox 360 game that probably took 40-50 people a year to make and is brand new. You're not buying a game that came out 22 years ago, on a system that's 4 (or 3 or 2) generations in the past, and hasn't been sold in retail stores for years.

Just because 40-50 people work 2-3 years on a game DOES NOT make it fun. This is exactly the mindset that Nintendo is fighting.

I'm a consumer. I'm paying for utility, meaning whatever gives me the most fun. If an old school Super Star Soldier game for the TGFX I never owned is more fun at $6 than generic-shooting-port #3, then I'm going to buy Super Star Soldier.

Same with movies. I'm not going to see Mission Impossible 3 in the theatres and spend $8.95 just because its new, its got awesome special effects and explosions and Tom Cruise is just-so-newsworthy, and a lot of people worked really hard on it. I'm going to buy the $9.99 DVD release of Broadcast News, a MUCH better movie made back in the 80's that I can watch OVER and OVER and OVER and over again, a movie that. I'll actually spend MORE on older movies if they're of higher QUALITY than new-slap-bang-production-number-3.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Hey, no dissin' P.N.03 here kay.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Hey wait... Smash you have a Roomba if I remember right... I want your Roomba.  So can I come up and take it?

Too late, I already called dibs on it .

My question is, if ROms are considered illegal why isn't the gaming industry doing something to eliminate them?

I know the music and movie industry did EVERYTHING in their power to eliminate the websites, why isn't the videogame industry doing the same thing?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Cuz the game industry doesn't have its head so far up its ass as the movie/music industry does.

The game industry is continually looking for more ways to make sales, while the movie/music industry feels threatened enough to WASTE its time trying to prevent the "loss" of sales (since they believe they know the law better than the people they accuse).  

[Requiem]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Sense of Security; One of the bigger reasons is the fact that this is pure game data we are talking about, not breakable cartridges that can get worn down."

I see it as the opposite.  Without a physical copy all of your games could be lost if your Wii gets damaged.  Yeah Nintendo will help you replace that games now but ten years from now?  Plus with digital content companies always have that bullsh!t "licence to use" crap.  Nintendo could probably complete kill the whole VC when their next console comes out and wipe out every game you've downloaded and get away with it legally.  They probably won't but the risk is always there with digitally stored content.  With a physical copy you're in control.  If you can get the working hardware you can play that game.

Honestly if the price of NES games was $1 I could see myself spending $100 on games for I never had an NES and that hardware is very unreliable.  As they are now I'd only buy a handful of games I really want.  As long as Nintendo keeps the prices up they will make less VC money from me because the prices are above my impulse buy range.  Fast food restaurants get less money for each purchase but fast food restaurants get more money from me because I visit them far more than higher priced "slow food" restaurants.  Chocolate bar companies probably make more money off of me than anyone else because they have an impulse product at a low price.  While I may download 100 $1 NES games I wouldn't necessarily download 20 $5 NES games.

I think your misinformed. The only way that you will not be able to access your games 10 years from now is if Nintendo's servers break down and lose all your information.

You see, your Wii isn't the only thing that holds information regarding VC games. Everytime you buy a game, that game is added to your online account and thus stored there no matter how many times you delete and re-download the game onto your Wii.

Pretty neat huh'

[BranDonk Kong]

I never said the time put into making a game means it will be good, but it does usually justify the price.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
I never said the time put into making a game means it will be good, but it does usually justify the price.

Quality justifies the price. Otherwise Daikatana was completely justified.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang Illegal is Illegal.  This is splitting hairs and is stupid.

If I steal something from a store or neighbor I broke the law even if I didn't get caught.

If I kill someone it is still against the law and illegal even if I don't get caught.

I think your relative view on morality and legality scares the crap out of me.  And is what is wrong with America.  We all think we deserve something and that is RIGHT, even when it is WRONG.

What can I say? I'm a realist, an economist.

The only thing which deters human beings from doing things considered "wrong" is the punishment and the high likelihood of being caught. Unenforceable laws might as well not be laws at all.

FYI, I don't have any ROMs. I've downloaded them to try games which I would otherwise never have the chance to try but generally they suck so I never bother with them again. Let me just say that, had I paid for these games, I'd DEMAND a refund on the spot.

And ROMs aren't property: they're INTELLECTUAL property, and the difference is that the laws are fuzzy when it comes to stealing something which has no physical mass and can be replicated an infinite number of times.

Doesn't anyone remember Napster in its original form? It was basically one gigantic service dedicated to the theft of music and yet millions of college students had absolutely no qualms with stealing as much music as they could fit on their computers.

I'm not saying it's ethical, I'm saying that I know lots of people who can't afford to pay $5 for a game which likely won't have aged well at all and my advice in those situations would be to download the ROM and try it beforehand to see if it would be worth paying money for.

There is no one "deserving". There are only those who fight for what they want and those who go without.

[decoyman]

VC Pricing is fine for me. Look at iTunes' pricing: no one complains about that. $1 for a ~3-minute song. Buy 5 songs, and that's 15 minutes of entertainment. Not taking into account replayability for the sake of simplicity, we see that (assuming it takes longer than 15 minutes to beat the NES game) it's a frickin' steal.

My first download will be Solomon's Key, and I'm sure I'll get plenty of value with my $5 investment out of that one.  

[Ceric]

Smash there are Millions of college students who don't have much qualm to do about anything.  I think the millions of business men that where on Napster should be the example.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
I never said the time put into making a game means it will be good, but it does usually justify the price.

Quality justifies the price. Otherwise Daikatana was completely justified.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

You are SUCH a gamer.

Also earlier in the year there was a thread that talked about people who sold those a billion games in one and they were just systems loaded with NES Roms.  How a number of them were caught, put in prisoned, fined outrageous amounts, and when possible deported. (I'm sure Vudu will suddenly pop with a link I don't even know what to search for now.)  The big fries they'll go after.  Also before anyone says it.  You can't have backups of games. (I'm not sure about the VC but Wii or GCN games I'm sure.)  Just open a manual and read the first page with the Nintendo stuff on it.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Nothing Nintendo prints in an instruction manual can trump actual copyright law.  That's even shakier than a EULA.

[segagamer12]

Well Ethical illegal or immoral it matters to some. I might not always show it but i am a crhistain and I do have high morals.



But I dont hold anyone else to that.


The fact is downloading roms is stealing money form a developer and that is one reason nto to do it.

I own a Record Company and I think I understand alot more about Intellectualy Property and Copyright laws than just average joe internet gamer who thinks its ok cuz its just a game or whatever excuse he uses.

If you want t try out a game, you can rent thatgame or barrow it from someone, youd ont Dl entire GC games to see if you liek them do you?

Thats a weak example and doesnt hold much clout.

that wasnt even my point yet it seams this discussion has gotten of track and onto copyright laws.


Nintendo HAS shut down several rom sites and has been fighting the stealing of their IP for years.


As a copyright owner I agree fully with the protections put forth in our laws that protect me from damages. Maybe you didn't knwo this but the MINIMUM fine for Coprytight infringment is $500,000 and up to five years in prison MINIMUM. Nintendo has gone out of thier way to shut down rom sites, I think they will go out of thier way to shot somone from stealing thier roms s it hurts them in the long run.  


I got more I could say but I gotta go ill be back latter.

[BranDonk Kong]

Those are ROM sites (with ads, so they make revenue), and people SELLING other companies IP. I'm not trying to justify downloading ROMs for games you don't own (and actually the laws on this have just changed), but you're not going to get in trouble for it.

[segagamer12]

Ok I had to leave earlier but I am back now. Even if yo own the actual program ona fixed media you can only make a back up of that program using the same media. Nes roms can only be backed up on NES carts legally.

Even Nintendo couldnt fight this. BUT who in the world has access to NES Rom burners? Transfering the Roms to a PC and running them in a program that ISNT the original NES hardware is still illegal.

I have reported Ebay auctioners to Nintendo for copyright infringement and other people as well, not just Nintendo but anytime I see infrginement I report it as a service to the IP owner. I would ask the same courtesy regarding my own IP.


and FYI I actually sat down and had negociations with NOA reps regaring the liscening of thier IP for a (then called Revolution) Promotional Soundtrack CD, part of why that never happened is Nintendo told me they are VERY picky about their IP as it is VERY valuable so they are super strickt on who they liscense thier stuff too. I got truned down cuz I was a small company and didnt have any way of disctributing the Cds without thier funding which they were,understandabley, willing to commit to. SO I am fully aware of how serious they take thier IP.

Although I doubt they woudl go after the individual downloading the Roms I am certian they would destroy person or entity providing the Roms for DL. So if your thinking of distributing Roms illegaly think twice.
 

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
I got truned down cuz I was a small company and didnt have any way of disctributing the Cds without thier funding which they were,understandabley, willing to commit to.

This is the one thing about Nintendo I wish I could change.

They're still very establishment, when I would prefer that they would be more open to smaller and more independent companies. Small companies can be the incubators for innovation! ... or at least, they can be...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[King of Twitch]

So true. Segagamer12 should've reminded them where Pokemon came from, that would be so touche.