Topic: Official Sales Thread

[NWR_Lindy]

If the Wii did present a good mix of games across all genres, then traditional genres WOULD be represented (like they are on the DS).  You can't just pick and choose which genres you consider important and discard the rest.

And again, the whole notion that Sony and Microsoft have done nothing for gaming but "make game prettier" is a fallacy.  Exactly what they're doing now seemed perfectly acceptable when it was done on GameCube, but now it's sneered at because it's not "Blue Ocean" or something?  Come on, give Sony and Microsoft their due.  Their consoles have given the world some amazing games.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"good mix" is very subjective, while "diversity" is more wholistic.  We're not talking good mix, we're talking diversity, so stay on topic.  And when diversity takes hold, the impact of "traditional" genres would lessen relative to the whole, which is the direction others are trying to indicate based on these very few snapshots of sales data in a generation that's still relatively young.  We're not going to see maturity until the hardware sales rates are clearly on the decline.

"Exactly what they're doing now seemed perfectly acceptable when it was done on GameCube, but now it's sneered at because it's not "Blue Ocean" or something?"

Well, back on GameCube, that all revolved around Nintendo's unique (3rd place niche market) library of titles; they were the minority of the market.  This time around, MicroSony are STILL fueling those same "hardcoor" blockbuster genre sectors (the visible majority of what people think next-gen is; with the exception of RPGs which have miraculously died off) they were riding on LAST TIME.  They've brought some amazing games, but at the same time they're killing themselves.  (oh wait, why have home console RPGs been dying?  i thought they'd jump all over the HD scene!  who's to blame!!?)

"On hardware, the Nintendo (NTDOY) Wii sold 687,000 units while the Xbox 360 sold 347,200 units. Sales of the Xbox surged 78% from the previous month after Microsoft instituted a price cut on the console."

LOL YOU CALL THAT A SURGE, MR. MARKETWATCH ARTICLE

[KDR_11k]

It wasn't really acceptable on the Gamecube, that's why the 'cube sold only 20 million worldwide.

It's nice to see that the wii version of Unleashed made it on the top ten.  But no De Blob or Wario Land is depressing.

De Blob and Wario Land don't look to me like games that will sell, do you think otherwise? I mean, I just looked at de Blob and thought "no way this'll sell big". It seems artsy and that's usually a sale-killer.

[EasyCure]

forget this post i cant word anything right today

[GoldenPhoenix]

Xbox 360 and PS3 are pretty much stuck in the sports, FPS and action game genre. That is pretty much it when you talk about the big games, there are a few exceptions like LBP but beyond that the diversity of software is pretty laughable to be honest. Just look at a Wal-mart game case and you'll see a sea of the same, while many may be good games it fails to invoke a feeling of "Wow look at all those different kinds of games!". I may be going out on a limb but I have a feeling that the drop in overall software sales has quite a bit to do with the 360/PS3 lineup. It gets to be like "Oh what game do I get next", let's see, I have Halo 3, Resistance, Gears of War, Frontlines, CoD4, Dead Space, Orange Box, Dark Sector, Bioshock, FEAR, Prey, Unreal Tournament, Battlefield, and on and on. While many of these games are high quality, talk about overload. It gets quite boring and I cannot imagine what someone new to the scene would think seeing all these "mature" looking boxes scattered all around on games that pretty much follow a similar path, which is shoot lots of things in gritty realistic environments (Yes I know Orange Box isn't quite like that but it still is a shooter).

When they look at the Wii they see a game that will maybe help them lose weight in a fun game, an arcade racer with fun characters from the Mario universe, an adventure game starring everybody's favorite elf, a shooter that has more variety than any of the shooters on 360 that doesn't feel the need to create dark gritty environments, a charming trivia game to pass the time at home, a 3D platformer starring everybody's favorite plumber, a stylistic brawler where you have a FREAKEN LIGHTSABER, or how about a zaney off road racer, perhaps better yet a game where you can relax and explore the ocean to your hearts content.

Basically my point is that the 360/PS3 lineup is mainly made up of shooters when you talk about its big name titles (or games that have lots of shooting) while the Wii's big games include everything from platformers, to adventure games, to fitness games, to casual sports games, to brawlers, to shooters, and various others.

[NWR_Lindy]

I think if you dig into the 360/PS3 libraries you could find comparable, quality games in many genres.  It's not all first-person shooters, but since both of those consoles are very well-suited for FPS (they're very close to PCs, obviously).  Just like the Wii is well-suited for party games and parlor games, which I could compile a similar list for.

[EasyCure]

I think if you dig into the 360/PS3 libraries you could find comparable, quality games in many genres.  It's not all first-person shooters, but since both of those consoles are very well-suited for FPS (they're very close to PCs, obviously).  Just like the Wii is well-suited for party games and parlor games, which I could compile a similar list for.

close to PC's in specs, not input.. shooters don't need HD to be good do they? Did i waste so many hours playing Goldeneye 007 back on my blurry textured N64??

[NWR_Lindy]

No, they don't, but GP and I are talking about what's been made for each console, not what might/should be made.  That's another (pointless) thread entirely.

[GoldenPhoenix]

No, they don't, but GP and I are talking about what's been made for each console, not what might/should be made.  That's another (pointless) thread entirely.

I am talking about the big games that predominantly shown. Sure you have your Viva Pinata or LBG but out of the big titles, the ones people buy which in turn determine their placement in a gaming case are much of the same.

[NWR_Lindy]

Well, of the big games that are predominantly shown for Wii, you have Wii Music and Animal Crossing.  That's not exactly Nintendo breaking out of its comfort zone.  Just like 360 and PS3 are "stuck" in Sports/FPS/Action, Wii is "stuck" in party games and parlor games.

I mean, when GP looks at the Wii games in Wal-Mart, according to her her first thought is "look at the huge selection".  My first thought is "are there any games here that aren't based on a cartoon and aimed at 7-year-olds?"  That's our gut reactions, which I think is very interesting.

[EasyCure]

I think if you dig into the 360/PS3 libraries you could find comparable, quality games in many genres.  It's not all first-person shooters, but since both of those consoles are very well-suited for FPS (they're very close to PCs, obviously).  Just like the Wii is well-suited for party games and parlor games, which I could compile a similar list for.

No, they don't, but GP and I are talking about what's been made for each console, not what might/should be made.  That's another (pointless) thread entirely.

I'm not talking about what games might/should be made either. You imply that the reason the ps3 and xbox 360 have so many FPS's is because they're similar to PCs.

My point was that just being similar doesnt mean its a reason why those systems are flooded with FPS's. Maybe i should of pointed out that Wii has a few FPS's under its belt too, as well as the OTHER genres gp's mentioned, hence backing the claim of diversity on the Wii and sticking with GPs argument against yours.

Clearer now?

Edit:

Well, of the big games that are predominantly shown for Wii, you have Wii Music and Animal Crossing.  That's not exactly Nintendo breaking out of its comfort zone.  Just like 360 and PS3 are "stuck" in Sports/FPS/Action, Wii is "stuck" in party games and parlor games.

Now now Silks.. is it really fair to use those two examples? Sure its the current big name titles for the upcoming holiday but you're neglecting the other big name titles, and its obviously because your argument holds no water if you were to say

"Wii's big name titles since launch have included a sword-play filled action/adventure with puzzles thrown in (Zelda), a multiplayer free-for-all fighter (Brawl), a cart racer with online play and tons of items at your disposal (Mario Kart) etc etc."

vs

"PS360 has... (see GPs post listing all those games then add Little Big Planet)"

[NWR_Lindy]

There are a lot of first-person shooters on 360 and PS3 because their hardware is extremely similar to PC hardware, so therefore developers can code a game on PC and port it over to 360 and PS3 fairly easily.  They can't do that on Wii, since the hardware for that system is very different from current PCs and demands from-the-ground-up development.  I'm not saying "Wii can't do first-person shooters" or making any outrageous claim like that.  I'm just describing what's out in the marketplace.  Clearer now?

And have a look at the games you listed for Wii.  They're a platformer (Zelda), a platformer/fighter/party game (Brawl), and a racer/party game (Mario Kart Wii).  This is exactly what I'm saying.  The Wii is very good for those genres, but not as strong in others.  It's an observation, not a slander against the console.  Yes, the Wii has other games in other genres, but so do the 360 and PS3.

[BranDonk Kong]

The architecture between the PS3, 360, and PC has nothing to do with putting FPSes on the consoles. The first Cell based computers are just now being used. There are a lot of FPSes on those consoles, because they sell a lot, they're easy to make, and people love to play them online. The PS3 is no more similar to a PC than the Wii is. It has pretty graphics and can run Linux (only distros that are designed to run on it's 8-core Cell processor), and that's about where the basic similarities end.

[Nick DiMola]

Well the 360/PC architecture is one in the same essentially when coding with XNA. So that argument is definitely true. Porting PS3 is not as easy, however no assets need to be redone as a result of a port to the PS3. With the Wii not only is there a port that needs to be done, but the assets need to be reworked, and the controls retooled, so the effort to get it there is significant.

While not 100% on, Silks' assessment is fairly accurate.

[BranDonk Kong]

I'm strictly talking about the PS3..basically in that post. The similarities between between the 360 and PC are well known, especially when it comes to XNA.

[NWR_Lindy]

I wasn't talking about architecture, was talking about graphical power. 360/PS3 are roughly equivalent with mid-range PC graphics cards out today, maybe a little better.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

And therefore the PS3/360 libraries are the result of what makes sense from a publisher/productivity standpoint (easy-to-churn hardcore product), and not the standpoint of performing jobs for customers (all potential customers, not just "demografiks").  Higher definition lead to shrinkage, sales charts show.

[NWR_Lindy]

It didn't have anything to do with HD. It was higher price caused by more expensive components.

The 360 originally had Component output just like the Wii, so the only thing different was the signal it spit out and the fact that it has much more expensive memory and graphics hardware.

[EasyCure]

Silks: Ok, you did make your point clearer on why pc to console development brings those fps titles over, and its a good point but you still dont have anything on Wii's game diversity over the other consoles. Just because the few games i listed have mutiplayer doesnt mean you can just lump them into the "party game" category. They're still representitive of the genres i mentioned and just happen to be good multiplayer games as wel.

If anything with multiplayer is a "party game' to you and you'll lump them all together as if its one genre (ie. Racers/fighters/puzzlers/platformers/fps' = party games) for Wii, then the ps3 and 360 are as equally NOT diverse because they consist of tons of online multiplayer games... in which case the wii would still be more diverse because it has a few online multiplayer games, a couple of normal multiplayer games, and plenty of single player only games...

but now thats just mucking things up and making things more confusing then they need to be. I'll just say two more things:

1. lets just agree to disagree about this and call it a day
2. party games = minigame compilations best played socially (RRR), not so much a racer/fighter/fps that has a both single and multiplayer modes with depth.

[BranDonk Kong]

I must have misinterpreted your post, when you said the hardware was "extremely similar to PC hardware, so therefore developers can code a game on PC and port it over to 360 and PS3 fairly easily" (nothing is *easily* ported to PS3, which is why the new standard is to start on PS3 and port from there), anyway, I'm not trying to make an argument, I'm just trying to explain my post. Nowadays the 360's and PS3's GPUs are nothing compared to what is achievable on a PC, but the PS3's processor is pretty effing amazing. Still...I would never want one, unless it was a cheap Blu Ray player.

[SixthAngel]

And have a look at the games you listed for Wii.  They're a platformer (Zelda), a platformer/fighter/party game (Brawl), and a racer/party game (Mario Kart Wii).  This is exactly what I'm saying.  The Wii is very good for those genres, but not as strong in others.  It's an observation, not a slander against the console.  Yes, the Wii has other games in other genres, but so do the 360 and PS3.

When did Zelda become a platformer?  There isn't even a jump button.  Each of those games is incredibly different and you just changed the genre or said multiplayer=party game so you could say there is little variety.

[KDR_11k]

It's funny that you say the Wii can't get PC ports when there are quite a few (sometimes enhanced) PC ports on WiiWare.

Also how the hell are Wii Music and Animal Crossing the big two games? Only Wii Music is getting any attention out of those two and neither is released. Big titles are stuff like Galaxy, Smash Bros, Wii Fit and of course Wii Sports.

In closing:

"I like to see people here in Japan showing interest in high-definition gaming and more sophisticated gaming experiences," offered Yoshida, in an interview with our sister site Eurogamer.net.

"In terms of realistic-looking graphics and smarter AI, they haven't really shown the appetite for what this generation of gaming can offer. I'd really like to see both PS3 and 360 succeed here."

"What Microsoft is offering and what we are offering are closer, compared to what other platforms are offering. Because of that commonality, the new games coming out on 360 and PS3 help to get consumers more interested in this generation of gaming," he added.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/sony-we-want-xbox-360-to-succeed-in-japan

lol

[NWR_Lindy]

Nothing I say is going to change anybody's mind's around here, so like EasyCure said I'll agree to disagree with the majority on this one.

But one thing I will say is that Zelda is a platformer.  You run around, in dungeons, on platforms.  I mean, many of the dungeons literally have platforms.  Its only difference from your typical Mario game is the incorporation of RPG elements, and a little less focus on action and more on adventure and puzzle-solving.   But it's a platformer alright.

And by "party game", I don't mean that every game on the Wii is Mario Party.  I'm really classifying a party game as a game that goes out of its way to get several people in a room to play together at one time.  Nintendo takes existing genres and twists them in this direction - Braw (fighter)l, Mario Kart (racer), Wii Sports (sports), etc.  The 360 and PS3 are more "solitary gamer'-oriented, focused on getting individuals online and playing with people that way.  These are the strengths of each console type in terms of what kind of gaming experience they're designed to encourage.

[NWR_insanolord]

If Zelda's a platformer than so is Halo, Resident Evil, and every other game in which you control a person.

[KDR_11k]

Didn't you hear? Nowadays a platformer doesn't involve platforms, it involves shooting and melee combat!