Author Topic: Official Sales Thread (Read 3916379 times)

Arbok · « **Reply #1625 on:** June 30, 2007, 04:27:06 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Personally think Ross Perot could have cleaned up last election but thats me.

Kerry would have took it if Perot ran, as he would have split the vote for Bush much more; in the same vein that Perot cost Bush senior his re-election.

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I worked for a company who job where to make prodcut lines and processes more efficient. Every cent made a big change.

Makes sense, considering the volume of units we are talking about here.

denjet78 · « **Reply #1626 on:** June 30, 2007, 12:06:54 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Quote
Originally posted by: denjet78
Yeah, I remember the exact same thing happening back when the PSX first started overtaking the N64. Developers kept secretly making games for it just waiting for the market share to increase to a profitable level. It's not like they canceled all their big name N64 games and moved them over to the PSX. Games like Final Fantasy VII, Metal Gear Solid and Dragon Warrior VII.

Oh wait...

Yes they did.

Which means what that is relevant to this topic?

It's actually extremely relevant if you've been paying attention to how this industry works at all. If things continue the way they have by the time the PS3 becomes profitable, if it ever does, Wii will be so far ahead that there won't be any good reason to make games for the PS3 anyway. Developers aren't going to wait for Sony. They're going to go full steam ahead for the market leader. Sure, right now development is extremely expensive and a number of developers are worried that Wii is going to falter but if it takes this next holiday season by storm and the PS3/360 don't massively jump in week by week numbers on a consistent basis I'm pretty sure that most of those doubts will vanish.

Is that a pretense of huge games like MGS4 and FFXIII eventually being ported or moved to the Wii? Developers have already put a lot of effort into them for the super systems already, this is true. But the point is has that ever stopped a developer from canceling a game and moving it to a more profitable platform before? Besides, what's another million on top of the 15+ they've already spent in order to make a Wii port? Especially when it's almost guaranteed to sell far more than it will on any other system just based on market share alone.

If it comes down to it developers will cancel/port their games for the PS3/360 and move them to Wii if there is enough incentive no matter how far along into production they are. You really need to realize that this is a business and business does what is best for business. And right now, Wii IS the home video games business.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #1627 on:** June 30, 2007, 09:14:33 PM »

Developers have already put a lot of effort into them for the super systems already, this is true.

Do we actually know that? Many of the large PS3 exclusives didn't have much beyond a prerendered trailer shown yet.

The Omen · « **Reply #1628 on:** July 01, 2007, 03:25:42 AM »

You know what? Screw being overly cautious. I changed my mind. I will now gloat day after day about Nintendo dominance. I was a kid when Nintendo dominated, and it took a long time to get back to it. But it's here now and I don't want to waste my energy on what ifs...I'm going straight to what is. And what is happening is the Wii and DS are absolutely crushing all competition without any of the big three games out yet. Simply amazing turnaround.

About the graphics concern in 3-4 years. I have a feeling we may have a new Wii model, the Wii 2.0, which will be a significant upgrade, by 2010. If the Wii can keep momentum for the next two years, which It should, then Nintendo can announce the successor at E3 '09. I also believe the Wii 2.0 will be affordable because they will base it on the current tech. $250. Complete backwards compatibility with the Wii and VC libraries. And the installed user base will be huge by then. There's no stopping Nintendo now!

Feel free to relax and enjoy the ride.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #1629 on:** July 01, 2007, 09:29:10 AM »

I don't think that'll happen. Sure, the Wii's graphics won't be much prettier in 2010 but neither are the other consoles, if you want growing graphics get a PC.

Kairon · « **Reply #1630 on:** July 01, 2007, 11:10:04 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
I changed my mind.

Nooo! Now I'm the only one...

Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
I also believe the Wii 2.0 will be affordable because they will base it on the current tech. $250. Complete backwards compatibility with the Wii and VC libraries.

I don't know. Is there a limit to how much progress they can get out of the Flipper and Gekko architectures? I can see Nintendo being forced to move towards new architectures in the future, and putting out a PS2-like machine which would include the old chips for hardware emulation of Wii and GC games.

But what we're always ignoring is the potential for new market disruptions and innovations. What happens when Sony and MS fully adopt waggle/pointing? What happens when they come up with innovative controllers of their own? Will Nintendo be ready?

I'm fully enjoying Nintendo's resurgence now, but I personally sense a looming MS innovation-stealing, casual chasing, developer moneyhatting, hardware improving, loss leading, mud slinging, hardcore frenzying, media darling next generation juggernaut.

Chiller · « **Reply #1631 on:** July 01, 2007, 02:01:28 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
I also believe the Wii 2.0 will be affordable because they will base it on the current tech. $250. Complete backwards compatibility with the Wii and VC libraries.

I don't know. Is there a limit to how much progress they can get out of the Flipper and Gekko architectures? I can see Nintendo being forced to move towards new architectures in the future, and putting out a PS2-like machine which would include the old chips for hardware emulation of Wii and GC games.

I think that, by current tech, he means that they would use hardware with capabilities similar to the PS3, or 360.

Ceric · « **Reply #1632 on:** July 01, 2007, 03:53:20 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
I changed my mind.

Nooo! Now I'm the only one...

Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
I also believe the Wii 2.0 will be affordable because they will base it on the current tech. $250. Complete backwards compatibility with the Wii and VC libraries.

I don't know. Is there a limit to how much progress they can get out of the Flipper and Gekko architectures? I can see Nintendo being forced to move towards new architectures in the future, and putting out a PS2-like machine which would include the old chips for hardware emulation of Wii and GC games.

But what we're always ignoring is the potential for new market disruptions and innovations. What happens when Sony and MS fully adopt waggle/pointing? What happens when they come up with innovative controllers of their own? Will Nintendo be ready?

I'm fully enjoying Nintendo's resurgence now, but I personally sense a looming MS innovation-stealing, casual chasing, developer moneyhatting, hardware improving, loss leading, mud slinging, hardcore frenzying, media darling next generation juggernaut.

Kairon, if the x86 is any indication then the answer is no. Though Intel did have a plan to finally move away from it but AMD ruined that. A mixed blessing.

ShineGet887 · « **Reply #1633 on:** July 01, 2007, 04:50:02 PM »

Surely I say unto you, fellow gamers, no update will be necessary before the coming of the next generation. Look around you, and ask yourself, who are the people complaining about graphics? Tech geeks and people who likely started calling themselves a " hardcore gamer " when Halo came out. The average person, which will make up the majority of Nintendo's sales, doesn't care one bit about graphics, and they never will.

I honestly don't know what makes people think that with X big budget title sporting great graphics, that all of the sudden the Wii is going to lose all its appeal. Gears of War, Resistance, Motorstorm, and countless other great looking games aren't doing anything to stop it, so what makes you think Killzone and Halo will? Or any game for that matter?

People are not buying the Wii because it's cheap.

They're not buying the Wii because they think it'll have awesome graphics.

They're not buying the Wii because they think it'll have an awesome online experience.

They ARE buying the Wii because it provides a unique and innovative way to play games.

Don't get me wrong, the Wii's price point isn't hurting it one bit, but I honestly believe that they could've launched the system at 300 dollars and have the same level of sucess.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #1634 on:** July 01, 2007, 06:41:37 PM »

Why do you guys insist the Wii's weaker graphics will hurt it in the future? If that is the case, then why isn't those weaker graphics hurting it now? The PS3 and 360's graphics may increase over time, but so too will the Wii's as developers figure out how to squeeze more out.... but hasn't Nintendo already proven that graphics don't matter in the scheme of things?

IceCold · « **Reply #1635 on:** July 01, 2007, 06:45:48 PM »

ShineGet and Chozo are absolutely right - the gap in visuals right now definitely isn't hurting the Wii, and there's no indication that it will in the future, especially since Wii games are only going to look better.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #1636 on:** July 01, 2007, 07:00:58 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ShineGet887
Surely I say unto you, fellow gamers, no update will be necessary before the coming of the next generation. Look around you, and ask yourself, who are the people complaining about graphics? Tech geeks and people who likely started calling themselves a " hardcore gamer " when Halo came out. The average person, which will make up the majority of Nintendo's sales, doesn't care one bit about graphics, and they never will.

I honestly don't know what makes people think that with X big budget title sporting great graphics, that all of the sudden the Wii is going to lose all its appeal. Gears of War, Resistance, Motorstorm, and countless other great looking games aren't doing anything to stop it, so what makes you think Killzone and Halo will? Or any game for that matter?

People are not buying the Wii because it's cheap.

They're not buying the Wii because they think it'll have awesome graphics.

They're not buying the Wii because they think it'll have an awesome online experience.

They ARE buying the Wii because it provides a unique and innovative way to play games.

Don't get me wrong, the Wii's price point isn't hurting it one bit, but I honestly believe that they could've launched the system at 300 dollars and have the same level of sucess.

If anything they were too successful. I think even they underestimated demand, and some analysts are saying the shortage could even last into the summer of next year! I think the Wii would have sold out at even $350.... you gotta look at the price it is going for on Ebay. Whatever that is is what Nintendo should be charging, because that is where the demand level is at.

Mashiro · « **Reply #1637 on:** July 01, 2007, 07:12:42 PM »

You know as "weak" as the Wii may be in terms of graphical power compared to the other next gen systems, I will always marvel at games like Resident Evil 4. The game STILL looks gorgeous and that was made on the Gamecube. Look at Twilight Princess, another beautiful game but even that was made pushing the Gamecube.

So if Wii is a bit more powerful than a GC, and we can get games that look like that, I'm happy.

Sure it wont be as good as 360 or PS3 but hey graphics aren't everything and it's not like the graphics are ugly. Far from it, the games still can look beautiful.

Look back at the history of systems: was N64 more visually impressive than the PS? Sure, but as we all know graphics don't just win the market.

Kairon · « **Reply #1638 on:** July 01, 2007, 07:42:28 PM »

Of course, if I was a fanboi of another system, I'd respond by saying that:

1. The GC may have been more powerful than the PS2, but only a few people could tell the difference. Now, the disparity is so large that it's easy to see the difference.

2. A lot of the Wii's demand is currently being driven by non-gamers and casuals, and thus it doesn't mean necessarily follow that the mass market, mainstream gamer will be so accepting (who's currently sitting pretty with his PS2, working a second job in preparation for the future to arrive) .

3. Aside from graphics, the Wii's basic lack of high-end hardware is ALREADY leaving it behind in GAMEPLAY terms: AI, numbers of enemies on screen, procedural animation, living virtual dynamic worlds, secondary (HD) storage for advanced game features, and lots and lots of bloom lighting.

4. Ken Kutaragi has not left us. He's merely taking a well deserved nap in his ultra high tech germanium-tungsten coffin, recharging his immense and godlike powers, so that he may arise one day fully renewed and rejuvenated, ready to bend us to his will, making us bow at the nearest convenient PS3 technical altar to his greatness.

5. Ditto for J. Allard. Except J. Allard is bald. Which makes him cooler. Duh.

... but I'm not a fanboi of another system. *shrug* I just read about them on the internet.

IceCold · « **Reply #1639 on:** July 01, 2007, 08:00:24 PM »

Quote
1. The GC may have been more powerful than the PS2, but only a few people could tell the difference. Now, the disparity is so large that it's easy to see the difference.

I don't think so.. we're talking on the Internet where most people have developed an extremely critical eye for graphics. If you make average people look at Wii games in comparison to those on the other systems, especially on a standard def TV (which most people have), they wouldn't be able to notice much of a difference. Hell, I still can't really tell if a game is technically graphically impressive or not, jargon be damned.

We also have to take into account that all the horrible ports are sure to make a bad impression graphically. But the PS2 had an even greater amount of ugly games than the Wii does. Comparing Far Cry Wii to Gears of War is like comparing, say, The Simpsons Skateboarding on PS2 to RE4 on GameCube. Once developers actually start putting effort into the visuals, the gap will be narrower.

But in the end, all of this talk about graphics just doesn't matter.. look how the PS2 turned out and how the Wii looks to be turning out.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #1640 on:** July 01, 2007, 09:44:27 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Of course, if I was a fanboi of another system, I'd respond by saying that:

1. The GC may have been more powerful than the PS2, but only a few people could tell the difference. Now, the disparity is so large that it's easy to see the difference.

2. A lot of the Wii's demand is currently being driven by non-gamers and casuals, and thus it doesn't mean necessarily follow that the mass market, mainstream gamer will be so accepting (who's currently sitting pretty with his PS2, working a second job in preparation for the future to arrive) .

3. Aside from graphics, the Wii's basic lack of high-end hardware is ALREADY leaving it behind in GAMEPLAY terms: AI, numbers of enemies on screen, procedural animation, living virtual dynamic worlds, secondary (HD) storage for advanced game features, and lots and lots of bloom lighting.

4. Ken Kutaragi has not left us. He's merely taking a well deserved nap in his ultra high tech germanium-tungsten coffin, recharging his immense and godlike powers, so that he may arise one day fully renewed and rejuvenated, ready to bend us to his will, making us bow at the nearest convenient PS3 technical altar to his greatness.

5. Ditto for J. Allard. Except J. Allard is bald. Which makes him cooler. Duh.

... but I'm not a fanboi of another system. *shrug* I just read about them on the internet.

1.) The N64 had a huge and noticeable disparity in graphics capability over the PS and the PS still outsold it by a wide margin. Heck, the PS was a 32 bit system and the N64 was 64 bit. That meant the N64 was twice as good!

2) A lot, but not all. Red Steel sold over a million, and Zelda TP is selling very well also.

3) I don't own a Wii yet myself so can't comment on this.

No point in responding to 4 and 5.

Adrock · « **Reply #1641 on:** July 01, 2007, 10:44:30 PM »

Kairon's 1st point is actually a pretty fair argument. Ultimately though, I don't think it's really going to make a difference. It would've if there was no Wii remote, but there is and that's the deal breaker here.

Kairon · « **Reply #1642 on:** July 02, 2007, 07:42:47 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Kairon's 1st point is actually a pretty fair argument. Ultimately though, I don't think it's really going to make a difference. It would've if there was no Wii remote, but there is and that's the deal breaker here.

Yeah, the wildcard that simply hasn't figured in ANYONE's analysis because it has virtually no historical precendence, is the wiimote. Even if you acknowledge its existence, how can you estimate its importance using anything other than the warm fuzzy feeling in your gut?

Kenology · « **Reply #1643 on:** July 02, 2007, 08:51:34 AM »

Pretty decent article you guys might like:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2007/07/02/nintendo_wii_outsells_ps3_6_to_1_in_japan_in_june/

BigJim · « **Reply #1644 on:** July 02, 2007, 01:01:42 PM »

Oh, this again.

Graphics aren't being rejected.

Price rape is.

Rinse and repeat.

The wiimote helped too, though.

Still, this "us vs. them" thinking applies less and less, IMO. The markets are forking (for real this time). Graphics are not an end-all-be-all, but nobody ever complained they were too good either, all else being equal.

Deguello · « **Reply #1645 on:** July 02, 2007, 01:17:02 PM »

Actually one thing I would like to address is this pointless perception that the Wii will be getting low budget games because of this 1984-ish retrofit concept of the weaker console getting low budget games. The problem is, in order to believe this line of thinking, you first need to convince yourself that FFXII and MGS3 are low-budget games. Budgets are decided regardless of platform.

On the subject of 1984-ism. Analysts have recently done something similar to that in the form of talking about the History of Sony's launches. A DFC analyst said "Sony has historically been slow out of the gates with their video game hardware systems." This is just flat wrong, as the PS2 sold a million in launch weekend, which I believe is still the record. "We have always been at war with Eastasia" indeed.

that Baby guy · « **Reply #1646 on:** July 02, 2007, 03:12:34 PM »

Analysts have been trying to positively qualify for Sony how these events have operated since the whole PS3/Wii debacle started. The fact is that the unbearably expensive console has always failed. On top of that, we've seen that the systems that are released with about a year of extra time sell well. The result: The PS3 flops. That was obvious. The 360 excels early. That was a given too. The Wii, with it's price, exclusives, and new control was also destined to start strong, like the N64 did with mostly new 3D worlds.

The difference? Whereas Sony had a head start, a better storage medium, and general developer support to power them through their first generation, now they really have none of these. Last gen, Sony had a huge head start, along with untruthful, but powerful statements about power, they were able to defeat the Dreamcast before it launched, while instantly selling out for months, due to the belief that the system is amazing. Essentially, it was able to kill the GC and Xbox, too, solely from the momentum the developers picked up on it.

This generation, the 360 came first, with a strong start, but Sony's untruthful lines about the PS3 and Blu-ray's abilities kept the majority of developers and consumers waiting to see. What happened? E3. People saw that Microsoft had a solid line planned out, the Wii truly had the option to create brilliant control, and the PS3 decided it would be $500 or more, without any major draw beyond the 360. At this point, I think everyone should have seen that the PS3 was going to receive a poor reception, knowing that price does matter, and that the other two consoles both seemed to be doing great.

Now, the Wii looks like it might push past the 360 this year. Why? One part because of the PS3's wait, one part because of the pretty large price difference in comparison to perceived value, one part hardware issues, and one part a slow Spring and Summer for games in general. When the Wii is still selling out from one specific title, a slow Summer doesn't matter too much for that particular system, whereas it has hurt the 360 quite a bit.

Kairon · « **Reply #1647 on:** July 03, 2007, 07:51:10 AM »

Even though the following disregards first-party-third-party aspects, this GameDaily report on the latest Famitsu figures paints the Wii, and Nintendo, in a very positive light in Japan.

Quote
...
"Despite its penetration pace being slower than that of the PS2 (3,267,000 units sold as of its 30th week mark) or the GBA (3,306,000 units sold as of its 30th week mark) the Wii's total software sales have been far in excess of these other systems' in terms of volume –thanks to its outstanding software-hardware tie ratio, which ranks it the highest among all the gaming devices released since 1996," said the report.
...
On the software side, Nintendo's platforms are winning out as well. Nearly 1.7 million units of DS software and 392K units of Wii software were purchased during June. Together, the two systems controlled over 81 percent of the software market – very impressive.

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #1648 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:26:58 PM »

Top 30 Media Create June 25th ~ July 1st

01./00. [PS2] Super Robot Wars: Original Generations (Banpresto) - 346,000 / New!
02./01. [DS] The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (Nintendo) - 137,000 / 439,000
03./02. [DS] Itadaki Street DS (Square-Enix) - 60,000 / 209,000
04./03. [DS] Practice by Observing: DS Observation Training (Nintendo) - 49,000 / 314,000
05./00. [PSP] Ratchet & Clank: Going Mobile (Sony) - 39,000 / New!
06./04. [Wii] Wii Sports (Nintendo) - 37,000 / 1,792,000
07./00. [PS2] Tales of Fandom, Vol. 2: Luke Version (Bandai-Namco) - 34,000 / New!
08./00. [PS2] Tales of Fandom, Vol. 2: Tia Version (Bandai-Namco) - 30,000 / New!
09./00. [Wii] Donkey Kong Jet (Nintendo) - 30,000 / New!
10./00. [DS] Listen! Write! Increase Vocabulary! Initial English Training (Benesse) - 30,000 / New!

11./00. [DS] Home Teacher Hitman Reborn! DS: Flame Rumble (Takara-Tomy) New!
12./07. [Wii] Wii Play (Nintendo)
13./00. [DS] Reading Training (Benesse) New!
14./09. [DS] More Brain Age (Nintendo)
15./10. [DS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo)
16./00. [PS2] Neon Genesis Evangelion: Battle Orchestra (Broccoli) New!
17./14. [DS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
18./13. [DS] More English Training (Nintendo)
19./00. [PS3] Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas (Ubi Soft) New!
20./12. [DS] Moero! Nekketsu Rhythm Damashii: Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan 2 (Nintendo)
21./16. [DS] Brain Age (Nintendo)
22./17. [DS] Animal Crossing Wild World (Nintendo)
23./15. [DS] Prof. Layton and the Mysterious Village (Level 5)
24./00. [DS] Legend of the River King (Marvelous Interactive) New!
25./00. [PS2] Baroque (Sting) New!
26./21. [DS] English Training (Nintendo)
27./06. [Wii] Hajime no Ippo: Revolution (AQ Interactive)
28./22. [DS] Momotarou Dentetsu DS: Tokyo & Japan (Hudson)
29./23. [DS] Yoshi's Island DS (Nintendo)
30./26. [DS] Kanji Brain Test 2M (IE Institute)

31./30. [DS] Common Knowledge Training (Nintendo)
32./27. [DS] Pokémon Diamond (Pokémon)
33./28. [DS] Kekkaishi: Tale of the Raven Forest (Bandai-Namco)
34./24. [Wii] Super Paper Mario (Nintendo)
35./31. [Wii] Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition (Capcom)
36./34. [DS] Pokémon Pearl (Pokémon)
37./00. [PS2] Buso Renkin: Welcome to Papyon Park (Marvelous Interactive) New!
38./00. [DS] Detailed Japanese History B Total Training (Bandai-Namco) New!
39./36. [DS] Phoenix Wright 4 (Capcom)
40./08. [PS2] Mana-Khemia: The School Alchemists (Gust)
41./19. [PS3] Ninja Gaiden Sigma (Tecmo)
42./39. [DS] Kurikin: Nano Island Story (Nintendo)
43./43. [DS] Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis (Nintendo)
44./33. [Wii] Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree (Nintendo)
45./11. [PS3] FolksSoul (Sony)
46./05. [PS2] Growlanser VI (Atlus)
47./38. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd (Capcom)
48./00. [PS2] Tales of the Abyss (Bandai-Namco) New!
49./32. [PS2] Hisshou Pachinko/Pachislo Capture Series, Vol. 10: CR Neon Geneses Evangelion (D3 Publisher)
50./41. [DS] Kanji Test (Rocket Co.)

# of Games Sold by System (Currently in no order):
Wii- 7 games
DS- 28 games
PS3- 3 games
PS2- 10 games
PSP- 2 games

Number of New Games: 15 games

# First Party Games Split by Company
Nintendo: 19
Sony: 2

First to Third Party Number and Ratios by Company
16 out of 35 or 45% of games Published for a Nintendo System were 3rd Party.
13 out of 15 or 86% of games Published for a Sony System were 3rd Party.

Legend:
Game- Nintendo System
Game- Sony System
Game- Microsoft System

Hardware - This Week | Last Week | YTD | LTD
1. DS - 157,480 | 163,918 | 3,971,518 | 17,977,197
2. Wii - 73,919 | 65,582 | 1,954,852 | 2,874,495
3. PSP - 38,305 | 32,984 | 1,083,147 | 5,615,276
4. PS2 - 16,316 | 11,962 | 420,373 | 20,575,232
5. PS3 - 11,914 | 9,581 | 492,931 | 950,489
6. 360 - 3,154 | 3,369 | 118,583 | 383,285
7. GBA - 572 | 414 | 40,804 | 15,338,883
8. GC - 111 | 82 | 8,419 | 4,177,887

GBA = 16 GBA + 179 SP + 377 Micro
DS = 45 DS + 157,435 Lite

Disclaimer: All of the above non-Media Create links and data were auto-generated from the Media Create Data. Therefore the accuracy of the links have not been verified.

UncleBob · « **Reply #1649 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:41:22 PM »

Wait... DK Jet is out in Japan-land?

That means someone can confirm 100% that Bongo support is in or out, right?

News:

Poll

Will Nintendo pull off another 30 for 30 in Japan sales this year and, if so, how many times?

Author Topic: Official Sales Thread (Read 3916379 times)