Author Topic: First Twilight Princess Review (Read 30482 times)

Viewtiful mario · « **Reply #50 on:** November 14, 2006, 02:52:15 PM »

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It's the same reason why Majora's Mask got lower scores then Ocarina of Time. Even though Majora's Mask was a much better game, since everyone had already played Ocarina of Time they had something to compare it to and so critics were alot more harsh on Majora's Mask.

I'd have to disagree, the whole 3 day system just lead to a horrable save system and the annoyance of having to wait for a long time if something happened when you wanted to be apart of a sidequest that took place late in the day. Plus the bosses wern't as creative or as fun to fight as OOT.

Luigi Dude · « **Reply #51 on:** November 14, 2006, 02:56:53 PM »

You can use the Ocarina to play that one song to jump ahead 12 hours, it only take about a minute to get yourself to the third day so it doesn't take long to get to any time of the day.

Plus fighting Goht as Goron Link is the greatest Zelda boss fight ever.

Viewtiful mario · « **Reply #52 on:** November 14, 2006, 03:03:49 PM »

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
You can use the Ocarina to play that one song to jump ahead 12 hours, it only take about a minute to get yourself to the third day so it doesn't take long to get to any time of the day.

Plus fighting Goht as Goron Link is the greatest Zelda boss fight ever.

yah but that boss fight was, like, it everything else was simple.

and as for the time thing, th ocerana jumped you right into thenext half of the day. It didn't help if you were waiting for something that happens during the same day half. like if it was 6 o'clock and you were waiting for something that happened 5 hours later.

Renny · « **Reply #53 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:34:08 PM »

The PS3 has 1080 pixies and Zeldo only has 1.

7.9

mantidor · « **Reply #54 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:36:46 PM »

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Originally posted by: zakkiel
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little to no problem? thats simpy impossible, period.
Why?

Not for gamers anyway. I suppose a lefty with no experience in games will be more confortable by trying the stick with his/her right hand.

Regarding the graphics, TP has a bigger... (crap, I forgot the term, you know, that you can see very distant objects and the horizon line is very far away) than RE4, I never expected Zelda to look better, it just couldn't.

And Majora's Mask is awesome! the saving system is good, it makes the game harder, but I thought the problem with Zelda games were that they were easy, the saving system not only gave the game a more old-school "you can't save whenever you want" difficulty without being terribly hard, it also let the game had the best interaction that you could have with NPCs, as much care and attention TP has, I personally think it can't top what MM did, is very special to know what the people are going to do, and how they have different schedules and reactions, it made them more like real people instead of talking robots like most NPC in all games are.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #55 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:42:16 PM »

Draw distance?

Artimus · « **Reply #56 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:43:44 PM »

It is impossible for this to beat Ocarina of game rankings. The fact that it'll have 3-4 times as many reviews assures that. The real measure will be if it can beat RE4 or Metroid Prime. If it were to make it into the top ten that would put THREE gamecube games in the top 10. I think the ultimate test is if it can beat Wind Waker (94.7% average) and then if it can make it into the top 10. I'd say it has a chance, but the whole GCN/Wii situation may hurt it if only because some reviewers are going to be like 'NEXT GEN NOT PRETTY ENOUG 4.9/10' I guarantee.

mantidor · « **Reply #57 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:48:03 PM »

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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Draw distance?

That was the one! with the draw distance the game has, it actually looks really good, anyone reviewing graphics should take that into consideration.

Edfishy · « **Reply #58 on:** November 14, 2006, 05:09:19 PM »

I always thought Nintendo's decision to continue the Zelda:TP's development on the GameCube was horribly flawed. I would have preferred that they revamped the game with next-gen graphics, sound, etc and released it in late 2007 then to have a game that only true Zelda fans will ignore the graphical issues. I mean, lets be honest, your average casual gamer will never touch the game. The Zelda title implies classic, deep, gameplay. A little too much for the timid (idiot, Sony fan, etc) who'd rather play a hack & slash.

Besides which, we really didn't need a Zelda at the Wii's launch. Just the uniqueness of the Wiimote itself is more than enough reason to get the system before any killer apps are released.

The GameCube already had its chance with a Zelda game, and did exceptionally well with the kiddy-style Wind Waker, but it was impossible for me to convince die-hard gamers (read: Sony fans) that the game was actually any good. They scoffed that it was merely a kid's game at first glance of the game.

The Wii, and the Wii alone really deserved a "fresh-look" for Zelda all to itself. I can only imagine how much more attention would have been on Zelda: Twilight Princess if Nintendo had even attempted to rival the competition's "next-gen" games with 4.5 gigs (rather than the GCN's 1.5 gigs) of pure high definition Zelda. If nothing else it would have given Nintendo fans that much more to huff about. Now we have to fight off constant "nitpickings" about low graphics. Thank you, GameCube. You still plague us to this day.

Sorry about the rant, but I'm really feeling this is going to be a bite in the rear-end and a subject of discussion in five years. Maybe we'll have "Zelda: Majora's Mask Returns" to look forward to.

Kairon · « **Reply #59 on:** November 14, 2006, 05:25:36 PM »

That's the best reason I've heard yet to have discontinued the GC version Edfishy!

However, the decision to not concentrate on graphics was made by Miyamoto. Readint the Iwata asks interviews on Zelda, the game itself seemed nowhere near polished in Fall 2005 and they had a long ways to go.

It may be that Nintendo, even with that year extension, may not have had the energy or time to dedicate to revamping the graphics. After all, this is why Miyamoto elected to make link right-handed: it was to avoid having to redo art and animation and spend more money and lose more time!

Oh, but don't worry about that 5 years down the line thing. In 5 years, we'll be talking about the gameplay, not the graphics.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #60 on:** November 14, 2006, 06:05:26 PM »

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Originally posted by: Kairon
That's the best reason I've heard yet to have discontinued the GC version Edfishy!

However, the decision to not concentrate on graphics was made by Miyamoto. Readint the Iwata asks interviews on Zelda, the game itself seemed nowhere near polished in Fall 2005 and they had a long ways to go.

It may be that Nintendo, even with that year extension, may not have had the energy or time to dedicate to revamping the graphics. After all, this is why Miyamoto elected to make link right-handed: it was to avoid having to redo art and animation and spend more money and lose more time!

Oh, but don't worry about that 5 years down the line thing. In 5 years, we'll be talking about the gameplay, not the graphics.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Kairon is right if that 2nd review is any indication the game seems already destined to be a classic, like about every other Zelda game. Heck look at Ocarina, even with all the time that has gone by it still has held up pretty well (at least alot of us seem to think so). I did not know that about Miyamoto deciding to not worry too much about upgrading the visuals. But it makes perfect sense, I think we tend to forget that there is tons of money spent on developing a game, the longer it takes the more money it costs and the harder it is to make that cash back, not to mention one of the biggest factors being burning out your designers! So I think adding Wii controls and using it as a flagship game was a good idea (wish they still would have canned the GC one though to not split the userbase), because now they have something to build off of for the next Zelda and have a head start.

zakkiel · « **Reply #61 on:** November 14, 2006, 06:10:12 PM »

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Not for gamers anyway. I suppose a lefty with no experience in games will be more confortable by trying the stick with his/her right hand.

I'm not sure what the issue is. Nothing about the game prevents you from switching to whatever hand configuration is most comfortable for you. There's nothing that says you have to hold the remote in the same hand that Link holds his sword. Sword slashes are just waggles, either way.

TrueNerd · « **Reply #62 on:** November 14, 2006, 09:39:10 PM »

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Originally posted by: mantidor
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Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Miyamoto, a lefty himself, has said that it's hard for him to play left-handed. I'm sure he had the opportunity to play left-handed without the mirror mode as well. And Miyamoto doesn't strike me as someone who would just say that...he strikes me as someone who would tell the developers to fix it if it was a problem.

he strikes me as ambidextrous, and as a business man who would prefer to cater to the majority obviously, which means I don't take into consideration what he has said about handedness in games, if he thinks a lefty would be ok he's insane, or just not an exclusive lefty. Theres absolutely no way I will be able to point with my right hand no matter the game, and theres no need for hands-on experience in that regard, because Ive been using laser pointers all my life, as well as lightguns. If you think its such a not big deal, switch hands and tell me how confortable would that be.

Here's what Aonuma said about Miyamoto's experience

Page 2 is where the relevant stuff is..

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GP: Speaking of Link being left-handed, there's a rumor that Miyamoto-san himself is left-handed. So it's interesting to see that the Link in the Wii version of Twilight Princess is right-handed. Was there any sort of dissent from Miyamoto-san over this?

(Laughs). Actually, it was Mr. Miyamoto's idea to do this with the Wii version, so he wasn't resistant to this at all. And while Mr. Miyamoto is left-handed, I am right-handed, not that that has anything to do with it either. (Laughs). In fact, when Mr. Miyamoto plays with the Wii controller, he holds the Wii remote in his right hand and that was one of the reasons why Link is right-handed in that version. We just felt that it was much more natural to swing your sword that way.

Because Mr. Miyamoto was able to hold the remote in his right hand and swing it without it feeling unnatural, he felt that other left-handed people would do the same. He also felt that because of the way game controllers have been made up to this point, most gamers would want the analog stick in their left hand and swing with their right, so they would be able to play without any problems as well.

I genuinely think it would be more then doable for me to flick my wrist and occasionally aim at stuff with my weak hand. I don't think instant accuracy is going to be required in Twilight Princess, nor do I think the Wiimote activity is constant enough to be tiresome on either hand. Granted, I haven't played it yet. Just speculating.

mantidor · « **Reply #63 on:** November 15, 2006, 05:33:47 AM »

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Originally posted by: zakkiel
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Not for gamers anyway. I suppose a lefty with no experience in games will be more confortable by trying the stick with his/her right hand.
I'm not sure what the issue is. Nothing about the game prevents you from switching to whatever hand configuration is most comfortable for you. There's nothing that says you have to hold the remote in the same hand that Link holds his sword. Sword slashes are just waggles, either way.

If I hold the remote lefty way, I have to use the stick in the right hand, which is hard for a gamer who is used to use it in his left hand all the time, if I hold it the righty way, I have to point with the right hand, which is very ackward, and for some of us, practically impossible. The first is the lesser of evils, but its not going to be perfectly intuitive right out of the box like everyone is saying.

As much as people say that it doesn't matter which hand you use the remote for this game, Nintendo did mirror the whole game, its just contradicting, I don't understand why they did it anyway.

And that interview is exactly the one who made me think he's ambidextrous, just by him saying that he was ok with holding the remote in his right hand, that doesnt sound to me like an exclusive lefty. Really which part of the controller is going to need your dominant hand more?, the nunchuck with its basic motion detection and stick or the remote which points and has a more precise motion detection method? I think its obvious.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #64 on:** November 15, 2006, 07:35:57 AM »

"The real measure will be if it can beat RE4 or Metroid Prime. If it were to make it into the top ten that would put THREE gamecube games in the top 10."

Well I figure the Wii version is what will make the top ten so technically it won't be three Cube titles. The Cube version is probably going to do a lot worse in ratings because the reviewers will have already played the game and thus won't enjoy it like someone who is playing TP for the first time on the Cube will. Reviewers also forget that they get videogame consoles FOR FREE and thus will completely miss the significance of the game being playable without the need to purchase new hardware. They probably just think there's no point and will consider the game superfluous because they're not who the game is aimed at.

"Besides which, we really didn't need a Zelda at the Wii's launch. Just the uniqueness of the Wiimote itself is more than enough reason to get the system before any killer apps are released."

Are you kidding me? Without Zelda the Wii launch lineup looks horrible. WiiSports and ExciteTruck? So what are you supposed to do the day after launch when you're bored of those games? I'd argue that the very reason Zelda even is a Wii title in the first place is because Nintendo wasn't confident they could get something really great available in time so they converted a Cube title to fill the gap until the really awesome Wii titles are available.

ThePerm · « **Reply #65 on:** November 15, 2006, 07:42:05 AM »

also, as a lefty, i must say I've been using the mouse right handed for like 16 years.

mantidor · « **Reply #66 on:** November 15, 2006, 08:24:17 AM »

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Originally posted by: ThePerm
also, as a lefty, i must say I've been using the mouse right handed for like 16 years.

heresy! I'm kind of a lefty zealot

I never could use it with the right hand, but given practice, I'm sure I would be able to, however the truth is that it would be like wasting potential, and I would never achieve the precision I have now, well, mice don't need an incredible precision for normal tasks, but I'm sure Ill be less good at FPS games if I invert hands. Thats why lefties have the stereotype of being "clumsier", we aren't clumsier, we are just forced to use the wrong hand most of the time with embarrassing results. I always thought I just sucked at billiard games, that it wasn't for me, until it occurred me to invert hands and voila! I was suddenly decent! not good, because that requires practice, but I could actually hit the ball and make it go where I wanted.

Artimus · « **Reply #67 on:** November 15, 2006, 08:58:40 AM »

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Well I figure the Wii version is what will make the top ten so technically it won't be three Cube titles. The Cube version is probably going to do a lot worse in ratings because the reviewers will have already played the game and thus won't enjoy it like someone who is playing TP for the first time on the Cube will. Reviewers also forget that they get videogame consoles FOR FREE and thus will completely miss the significance of the game being playable without the need to purchase new hardware. They probably just think there's no point and will consider the game superfluous because they're not who the game is aimed at.

They review games not your wallet. The fact you need to own a Wii should not enter into their reviews in the slightest. It makes absolutely no sense to do so.

White Mage · « **Reply #68 on:** November 15, 2006, 08:58:55 AM »

Hello everyone, pretty new to posting but it seems like I've been reading forever.

I'd been meaning to post this for quite some time, but hadn't gotten around to it. On November 4th, Nintendo's World Store in Time Square opened up its Wii demo stations. They had 4 playing Wii Sports downstairs and 6 playing various first and third party games for a total of 11. One of the ones upstairs was playing Twilight Princess. I think it was only there on the 4th and has since been replaced.

Nintendo's website sent me an email inviting me to come play, and since I live in the area I went with a friend. It opened at 9am and we got there about fifteen minutes afterwards. Lines were already long. After we played Wii Sports to get the hang of the controller, we got in line for TP. After 3 hours, we were treated to five minutes of gameplay. It was the demo level that has been shown over and over with the fire boss at the end. My friend got to through the level and to the door to the boss and I was able to fight and defeat the fiery beast.

My very brief impressions are that it is much better than I was anticipating. As others have stated, I too had a fear of the new control scheme not being precise and not quite what Nintendo has been promising. My worries are gone. I was thrown into just 5 minutes of gameplay at the beginning of a boss battle, not the optimal choice to get to play. After just a few seconds of running around and aiming the bow it was second nature. The graphics are beautiful. I haven't really seen any 360 or PS3 games so I can't compare, but I couldn't really ask for anything more than the game gave me. The aiming was fluid (albeit a bit touchy, but I think Nintendo had the sensitivity up fairly high), swiping felt natural, and switching items on the control pad was a breeze. I appeared to be one of the few people that beat the boss (thanks to my friend for getting me there) and the Nintendo World Store rep seemed impressed before she snatched the lovely Wiimote from my hands.

I know people are skeptical, but please give it a chance, it really is like nothing you've ever played before---in a very very good way.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #69 on:** November 15, 2006, 09:17:38 AM »

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Ian sez: Regarding graphics can we all agree that since this is pretty much a Cube game that at the very least it should look as good as Resident Evil 4? What I'm hearing is that it isn't that good and ideally it should be the best looking Cube game there is considering how much later after RE4 it is being released.

This brings us to one of Nintendo's philosophies on Wii. Genyo Takeda said:

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After speaking with Nintendo's development partners, I became keenly aware of the fact that there is no end to the desire of those who just want more. Give them one, they ask for two. Give them two, and next time they will ask for five instead of three. Then they want ten, thirty, a hundred, their desire growing exponentially. Giving in to this will lead us nowhere in the end.

Edit: Nah, I'll let the quote speak for itself.

Edfishy · « **Reply #70 on:** November 15, 2006, 10:08:47 AM »

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After speaking with Nintendo's development partners, I became keenly aware of the fact that there is no end to the desire of those who just want more. Give them one, they ask for two. Give them two, and next time they will ask for five instead of three. Then they want ten, thirty, a hundred, their desire growing exponentially. Giving in to this will lead us nowhere in the end.

And yet Nintendo persists to constantly make the same series of games over and over again. How many Pokemon clones have they made... this month?

I would agree on the graphical-side of the quote though. If gamers were satisfied with 32-bit games in the past, than what has changed? Only the desire to become increasingly more enveloped by the games. Hard-core gamers want the games to feel more real, and when a game can envelope you through amazing visuals, sound and realism, like Company of Heroes, I'm not sure I can complain too much.

However, I feel that by making a game look and sound more real, you're just playing a trick on the mind. It's essentially an easy way for hard-core gamers to justify their involvement with the game, so that passer-by's can say, "Wow, that looks so real", thereby giving the gamer instant approval for fiddling with buttons and joysticks.

Playing older games like Asteroids, Mario, Zelda, and the like requires a large suspension of belief to really enjoy, and is comparable to the old black & white movies of the 20's & 30s. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on to make those pixels fly across the screen, and you must ignore all of those low-graphic short-comings if you're to kill Bowser and save the Princess. Low-graphic games, like a good book or an old movie, allows more of your own imagination to fill in the gray areas that the designers couldn't fill due to technical limitations, like why the heck does Mario live in the desert and fight Turtle-mutants?.

The more developers are filling in those blank spaces, the less our own imagination is involved with the game, and the less we're getting out of the deal (beside's an occasional adrenaline rush).

Ed's oppinion.

Kairon · « **Reply #71 on:** November 15, 2006, 10:57:51 AM »

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Originally posted by: mantidor
I'm sure I would be able to, however the truth is that it would be like wasting potential

Mantidor, the wasted potential is in one of your hands being weak and relatively unused. This is what happens when I move to a dual analog control system: my right hand which has been pressing simple buttons all its life cannot handle the task of handling a sensitive and highly important analog stick. In fact, I often play "Southpaw" in Halo even though I am right handed because my I need to give the more precise aiming jobn to my left thumb which is more capable of fine movements of that sort. My right hand just jams the thumbstick in a general direction for movement, using the right analog stick as a glorified N64 c-button setup. I am right-handed.

The Wii unlocks this by giving us more potential for input and movement. In a way I envy left-handers because they are challenged to use their right hand more often than us right handers are challenged to use our left. You guys are lucky, you're one step closer to ambidextrous, and full hand potential!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

zakkiel · « **Reply #72 on:** November 15, 2006, 11:41:23 AM »

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If I hold the remote lefty way, I have to use the stick in the right hand, which is hard for a gamer who is used to use it in his left hand all the time, if I hold it the righty way, I have to point with the right hand, which is very ackward, and for some of us, practically impossible.

Oh, there's a dilemma there, because lefties have gotten used to using their dominant hand for the analog. But it has nothing to do with mirroring Zelda.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #73 on:** November 15, 2006, 12:34:12 PM »

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Originally posted by: Edfishy

And yet Nintendo persists to constantly make the same series of games over and over again. How many Pokemon clones have they made... this month?

Ha ha, this is true, but as you went on to say, I think his point is more about graphics (and content in general). Tycho on Penny Arcade was recently complaining that Gears of War's matchmaking isn't on par with Halo 2. He considers what is supposedly the best console FPS the baseline for online matchmaking. How many more people would buy Gears of War if it had even better matchmaking than Halo 2? How much would it cost to have that?

In an even more extreme example, you've got Matt on IGN requesting voice acting in Zelda. How many more customers would Zelda draw in if Nintendo spent $5 million on voice acting? Some games are beginning to go for a-list Hollywood talent. What would $20 million in voice acting get Nintendo?

Sequels are still important, but refreshing them instead of always adding on to them (and coming up with brand-new game concepts) may be a more realistic solution business-wise.

Luigi Dude · « **Reply #74 on:** November 15, 2006, 12:58:11 PM »

I'm surprised no one has posted this review yet, it's the best review so far.

Gamerz Edge Twilight Princess review

I love what he says at the end, probobly the smartest thing I've heard a reviewer say in a long time.

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The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is a very rare experience. It’s a game where all of the pieces seem to fall into place in just the way necessary to create so seamless, so addictive, so unique an experience that it just feels right from start to finish. Apart from the classic Zelda action, of which there is plenty—more than ever before—in the game, Twilight Princess introduces some truly innovative gameplay elements and improves upon existing ones with an uncommon level of polish and attention. The game is simply overflowing with creativity; with its brilliantly-designed dungeons, legendary boss battles, engaging storyline, and rich cast of characters, it easily surpasses nearly every other game in its genre.

That said, some people are concerned primarily about its contentious graphical presentation; the sometimes-blurry textures. Do they hurt the overall appearance of the game? Yes. Perhaps the most important question, however, is whether they hurt the game enough to place it below the status of other “ten out of ten” legendary games. Here, the answer is a resounding “no.” The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is one of the greatest videogames ever created. It isn’t perfect—no game can make that claim—however, Twilight Princess is head and shoulders above nearly every other game I have ever played. It’s indubitably better than Ocarina of Time. It blows away The Wind Waker. And it has a sense of personality and careful balance that instill the player with a serious drive to complete it—something that many other very long adventure games, such as Oblivion, lack.

This is the first game that I have ever awarded a 10 in my six years as a reviewer, and for good reason. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is one of the defining videogames of our time. It is unquestionably one of the finest games ever released, and it is one that any gamer should experience regardless of the circumstances.

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Author Topic: First Twilight Princess Review (Read 30482 times)