Topic: help me UPGRADE before Wii

[kings x]

This is for the tech heads, I need help in my pre-Wii preperations... and you guys are my best source for information.  Time for a upgrade to my extremely outdated entertainment center, with Wii being the centerpiece for me.  I'm a long time lurker here (5 years), and sometimes posted, but now I ask for advice on gear because I sort of already know you guys here, and for a while I've held off upgrading for this next generation of Nintendo.

Television: There have been too many changes in technology to keep up with since I bought my last TV many many years ago.  Even checking the weekly Best Buy ads are confusing with sizes/types/prices seemingly being very inconsistent and somewhat random with pricing and features.   Here's what I'd like: I want flat panel (or at least flat screen), highest quality to be compatible with Wii (I realize Wii is not high def, but the what is the quality I need?).  Costs VS. size is a main issue as well -and I do want as large as I can get -price permitting for the quality I am looking for (whatever that is).  I'm looking for a balance between price, size, and quaility for my money.  I am not tech savy but need to be more up to date before I get Wii, and want to meet at least requiements for the best setup, for example for using component cables for the Wii.  I'm flexible on price range to a degree, but my budget has to be under $1000 for sure, hopefully $600 or less!

Surround sound system.  Yea, sadly I am way behind on this as well.  For 10 years I've been using a "gaming tv" by Samsung called GXTV that has fake surround sound (and it was only 13").  Any recomendations for a decent, affordable 'theather in a box' package?  I don't even know where to begin with this.

Another issue is getting Wii online.  I have an OLD PC (just as pathetic as my current TV setup), and I am on DIAL UP right now (and it sucks as much as you remember).  I am going to need to switch to DSL for other reasons as well, but also because I want to get my DS, and Wii connected to the Nintendo Wifi system.  What do I need to buy or upgrade on this current Windows 98 PC?  

And finally, watching DVD's has never been a priority with me and I've never owned a real dvd player (had ps2 for a few months though).  I want to add a cheap/decent dvd player, any tips?  Are they all DVD players pretty much the same now that they are OLD like the rest of my gear?

Sorry I'm clueless about new(er) tech (or tech that was awesome a year ago -and is now cheap and "outdated" is fine too), and since you guys love to have input on these things, I'd appreciate your help in Wii prep.

[hudsonhawk]

Home theater in a box things are a waste of money.  If you can't afford something nice, go for an older Marantz surround receiver and a nice pair of speakers; run it in stereo until you can afford a matching center and surrounds.

[The Omen]

I would recommend a rear projection hd widescreen setup if you want the most bang for the buck.  You can get a 51 inch Phillips for around $900 on black friday from Circuit City or Best Buy.  If you don't mind going smaller, go for a 28 inch lcd for around $600.  If all you want is a flat screen, and don't care for widescreen or hd, you can get those for under $300 at Walmart.

As for the surround sound, if you aren't a stickler, I would get a Panasonic 500 watt 5.1 set for around $300.  If you really don't want anything better than basic/average, you could go below $200.  

Dvd players are very cheap.  I would recommend the Cyberhome 300 for a lot of reasons-1-it's DTS and Progressive Scan capable.  2-there's a well known code that allows it to play ANY region dvds.  3-it costs less than $40.

[Kairon]

Huh? I thought projection TVs were anathema to gamers?

Either way, you absolutely do not need to go HD for the Wii. Keep in mind it only goes up to 480p and component cables. Hmm... widescreen though...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Pale]

On the TV front, I suggest getting the biggest Samsung DLP rear project tv you can afford / or think works in your room.

From there, I would pick up a good Dolby Digital / Pro Logic II surround sound receiver.  I suggest something from Harman Kardon myself.  The lower end models (which are still extremely nice) will be plenty for Wii.  (http://harmankardon.com/product_detail.aspx?cat=REC&sType=C&prod=AVR+145, http://harmankardon.com/product_detail.aspx?cat=REC&sType=C&prod=AVR+245)  Go higher if you want to go further for other reasons.  Onkyo is another awesome brand on the receiver side of things.

For speakers, I suggest Athena brand.  AWESOME bang for your buck.  I have them and love them.  Really what it comes down to is to go to a store like best buy and listen to what they have.  Pick the ones you like the sound of the best (assuming you can afford them).  If you have a good receiver (like the Haran Kardon stuff) you will be fine.  Concentrate your money on the front speakers and a sub.  Get cheaper stuff for your rears (unless you can afford more) as they don't make near as much of a difference.

Really, it all comes down to how much you want to spend.  What I described above will easily run you from 3500 - 6000 dollars depending on how big of a TV you go with and other stuff.

If you want to do something as nice as possible as affordably as possible, then look into a good CRT HD TV (probably from Samsung) in like the 30 inch range, and look at some of the surround sound in a box options.  I think Athena makes one in fact.

[Renny]

I have to agree with the comments about a surround sound system. A HTIB setup isn't worth the investment. I'd rather go with the sound in my TV and save for a decent seperate setup. I have an Onkyo TX-SR500, which is well outdated by now. Their revisions to this model have kept it at a good price point and feature set. It's now up to the TX-SR504, which is recommended in the recent electronics issue of Consumer Reports. $260 at Amazon currently. Refurbished under $200, which is how I got mine.

Get some JBLs and a sub from Parts Express and you have--well, my setup. All of it came under $500.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Are the complete packages really that bad a deal if I'm not an audiophile at all?  I really don't want to mess with picking out individual components and figuring out how everything works.  I have enough of a headache trying to make sense of all the new TVs.

[Pale]

Hooking up a surround sound setup that is made up of separately purchased components is no different than an in the box setup.

1. Buy a Receiver
2. Buy a pair of good speakers for your left and right front speakers.
3. Buy a good center channel speaker for your front center.
4. Buy some average small speakers for your rear left and right speakers.
5. Buy a bunch of speaker cable
6. Plug the speakers into the properly labeled spots on the back of the receiver


If you are doing a home theater in a box setup, replace the first 4 or 5 steps with "1. Buy a home theater in a box setup".  Speakers are the easiest thing in the world to buy.  Go to a store.  Listen to them.  Pick out the ones you like the sound of the best. Done.

[The Omen]

Quote
Huh? I thought projection TVs were anathema to gamers?

I love mine...it's perfection, honestly.  They aren't what they used to be, what with all the 'burn in' and things of that nature.

Bang for the buck, kids.  That's what it's all about.

[hudsonhawk]

If you really want to do a simple solution, check out the matched speaker sets from Paradigm (the Paradigm Cinema 70).  It ran about $580 new, I'm sure you could get one for less on the used market.  That includes 5 speakers and a sub.

PSB's Alpha intro stuff is better - get 2 pair of the Alpha Intro's and the matching center channel for the same price (around $600).  It doesn't include a sub, but they should go low enough that it won't matter at first - you can add one later if you feel the need.  Honestly you're much, much better off not having a sub than having a crappy one.  

In either case you'll still need a receiver, I agree with Renny's suggestion of Onkyo, otherwise Yamaha, Marantz, and Denon all make very respectable stuff.  I've seen some of the older top of the line Yamaha and Denon home theater receivers sell for $300-400 on the used market (receivers that are feature packed and went for $1500-2000 new).

If you can't spend that all at once, decide what you want to get (like the PSB Alpha Intros) and just buy pair and a receiver and game in stereo until you can afford the matching center and surrounds.

Trust me, you'll still be spending $800-900 but what you'll get will blow a cheapo HTIB out of the water.  

For TV's make sure you look at the options out there for CRT HDTV's.  They look great and you'll get more bang for your buck at that price.  If you have to have a flat panel, check out the higher end LCD monitors and TVs.  LG / Zenith makes good stuff for a reasonable price, JVC and Panasonic do as well for a bit more.

[kings x]

TV confusion:
alright, I'm understanding this a little bit more,  but can someone tell me why this Insignia™ 30" Flat-Tube HDTV  is $508
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7600955&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050015&id=1130981752759

While this Samsung - SlimFit 30" Widescreen Flat-Tube HDTV is $712?  
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7716769&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050015&id=1138087675171
When they seem to have the same features?  What am I missing?  Neither are flat panel, but are flat tube HDTV 16:9 widescreen.

And this LG - SuperSlim 30" Stereo HDTV
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7685089&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050015&id=1134703573897
is the same features as above, but is flat panel for $700 ($12 cheaper than the samsung listed above, which is a tube model... why?!)

I found this Hitachi 51" CRT Rear-Projection HDTV
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7846502&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050015&id=1142299121359
for $949 and I gotta say that size is really tempting me.  But some here are not loving the rear projection TV's, why?  I could see speace for this monster being an slight issue because of it's depth ...but wow= 51" is awesome, and is under $1000.  

I could not find the Phillips 51" rear projection HDTV that was recomended above.


-----------------------------------


Home Theater confusion:
Alright, Best Buy had a bunch of packages (which at this point I am considering because I'm unsure of what to get for each component when buying separately -at least a package is compatible and somewhat made to go together.  
The ones I found are all similar price range, but very different specs, and I am not sure what is decent, and why exactly are packages bad?  Is it price-related, or are these just sloppy bundled poor quality impulse buyer junk?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=phillips&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories

Thanks.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

If your face is within 7 feet of your TV screen in your seating arrangement, a home theater in a box is sufficient, cuz that's basically the space of a dorm room converted to a game area.  Acceptable HTIBs are from Panasonic, Sony, and Samsung, and are in the $200 range. (ensure the model includes Dolby Pro Logic II support)

The perceived audio output quality diminishes with distance, so only if you're trying to fill a LARGE room with quality audio would you be spending hundreds to thousands of dollars more on individual custom components.

Look at PC speakers.  A $40 2.1 set from a respectable maker will sound significantly better than a $10 2.0 pair of generic speakers.  That's $30 more for a clear and noticeable improvement.

But for full-size HT setups, you'd spend hundreds of dollars more to achieve a *lesser* degree of improvement.  And the bigger the room is, the $hundreds more you'd spend to maintain a given level of quality (since you're sitting further away, you'll have to increase the volume accordingly).

Go "all-out" with the cash if the money is available.  But holding back doesn't automatically mean you'll end up with crap.  That is my view.

[IceCold]

Quote
I want flat panel (or at least flat screen), highest quality to be compatible with Wii (I realize Wii is not high def, but the what is the quality I need?)

Best bet here would be a 480p (progressive scan) compatible CRT TV. They are cheap and have great quality. It may be a bit bulky, though, and unfortunately, they're very hard to find.

[The Omen]

 

Quote
I could not find the Phillips 51" rear projection HDTV that was recomended above.

I can't find it in stores either...but I did find it on Craigslist and ebay for around $400.  Perhaps it's discontinued?  Either way, your best bet is waiting until the black friday sale...you won't be sorry.

[kings x]

I saw the Hitachi 51" rear projection HDTV 16:9 widescreen today at best buy... it is on sale for $950 -and no tax.  . The screen and picture quality were higher than I expected and I think I'm going to grab one.  it is quite large and probably way too big for the room but man for my money I choose large, quality screen with all these features over a flat panel model half the size-for the same price (or more).

For home theater sound, I am going to start out with a package as they seem to be my easiest option (choosing one thing instea of several).  This is a bedroom setup for now at least so just getting something decent/affordable will get me started.  I can always upgrade later.  

Thanks for the advice!

[nycube]

sounds like your set on a tv,good, thats one thing out of the way lol..
as for audio, i second onkyo in bang for the buck, i have a stereo and 6.1 receiver by them and love them both..
curious to your budget, but these models should do you well.... (ht-s680) or (ht-s790) newer version of a consumer reports top pick

[kings x]

It looks like the Onkyo 680 6.1 package is my best bet for the money... $380 from Crutchfield... how can I find a better price?  It is a little hgher than I'd like, but I guess there's only one way to get this stuff... and that's to pay.

There were good reviws that didn't seem like fake reviews from the manufacturer.  And Consumer Reports had it as a top pick (for the money).

How do you find the best price?  Is there a site like cheapassgamer for electronic components?

[hudsonhawk]

Do not get a traditional rear-projection TV.  They're very heavy, look terrible off-axis, and require periodic recalibration.  DLP's are great but out of the price range you're looking at.

Seriously, a rear projection is the worst of all the possible display options.  Get an LCD, plasma, or CRT.  If you want to spend $1000 and get a huge screen you should look at front projectors.

[kings x]

The hitachi is a 51" CRT Rear projectionHDTV 1280 X 1080 pixel resolution HDMI input, 16:9 aspect ratio.
$950 on sale.

Still bad Hudsonhawk?  I tried to buy it today but the store was sold out already.

[The Omen]

Quote
Originally posted by: kings x
I saw the Hitachi 51" rear projection HDTV 16:9 widescreen today at best buy... it is on sale for $950 -and no tax.  . The screen and picture quality were higher than I expected and I think I'm going to grab one.  it is quite large and probably way too big for the room but man for my money I choose large, quality screen with all these features over a flat panel model half the size-for the same price (or more).

For home theater sound, I am going to start out with a package as they seem to be my easiest option (choosing one thing instea of several).  This is a bedroom setup for now at least so just getting something decent/affordable will get me started.  I can always upgrade later.  

Thanks for the advice!

Good deal on the tv.  Congrats.

Quote
Originally posted by: hudsonhawk
Do not get a traditional rear-projection TV.  They're very heavy, look terrible off-axis, and require periodic recalibration.  DLP's are great but out of the price range you're looking at.

Seriously, a rear projection is the worst of all the possible display options.  Get an LCD, plasma, or CRT.  If you want to spend $1000 and get a huge screen you should look at front projectors.

If we're talking about budget, and we are, you're way off base.  My rpt looks f'n fantastic and I haven't had to recalibrate anything.  Obviously, if price weren't a factor, everyone and their mother would have a dlp.  And LCDs are not exactly the ideal display for video games, especially the cheaper ones.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: kings x
The hitachi is a 51" CRT Rear projectionHDTV 1280 X 1080 pixel resolution HDMI input, 16:9 aspect ratio.
$950 on sale.

Still bad Hudsonhawk?  I tried to buy it today but the store was sold out already.

I don't think I get Hitachi after what Craig Harris had to go through with them.

[kings x]

Ceric, pretend I don't know what you are talking about.  


(only leave out the pretend)

[Ceric]

Part 1
Part 2
part 3

[kings x]

Thanks for the link Ceric.  but I dont know, all of these companies are the same.  hitachi cant be worse than sony, for example.  Anytime you buy electronics it is a gamble.  Maybe I'll do the best buy extended warrenty so I can dump it off 'when' (not if) it screws up.  No one is less tolerant than me with stuff that can't even do it's one purpose (such as TURN ON), and I am loyal to no brand (except maybe Nintendo in most cases -and thats from experience) and I dont see Hitachi being any different than buying any other TV I will able to reasonably afford.

Thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: not only that but craig is using his position as a public mouth piece as leverage, which I guess I don't blame, but it's still annoying.  He is really spouting of a bit there though.

"It was made clear to me during my hour long phone call that Hitachi has been following my situation closely -- the customer service representative mentioned that they have my blog on file. Fantastic, that's great to hear. What I'm amazed at is the fact that, knowing what I do for a living, the company's Public Relations department has yet to contact me. One would think that someone who plays videogames for a living -- and with the industry moving heavily into HD -- that the company might want to make right a poor situation before it got out of hand.

I'm all ears, Hitachi. My email is charris@ign.com, and you can contact me through IGN main number: 415-508-2000. I'd love to hear from you. "

BACK ON TOPIC: How about getting my Wii online?  Is it just matter of upgrading to DSL and any hardware connections (such as from the PC to the DSL connection which is what?  a broadband adapter?), and thengetting a wireless router which the Wii and DS can access through my PC?

..man I am really outdated (I hate buying stuff)

[hudsonhawk]

Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen


If we're talking about budget, and we are, you're way off base.  My rpt looks f'n fantastic and I haven't had to recalibrate anything.  Obviously, if price weren't a factor, everyone and their mother would have a dlp.  And LCDs are not exactly the ideal display for video games, especially the cheaper ones.

LCD's are a reasonable gaming option; $1000 is a lot of money and can get a very nice one.  

I just think that if you're taking budget into account, you also have to look at long-term costs such as lamp replacement and the installation and recalibration that accompany that.  It's not going to be an issue for the first couple of years of the TV, but over its lifetime you'll end up spending hundreds of dollars more, money which could have just gone towards the TV up front.

I don't doubt that your TV looks great - rear projection TV's look great as long as your viewing angle is perpendicular to the screen.  I just think that the other options are better - but it's sort of a quality vs. size debate.  Besides, if you're willing to put up with pain points like bulb replacement you should just get a front projector and a glass bead screen.