Topic: Awesome article on Wii and Disruptive Business Strategies

[couchmonkey]

Wow, this article blew me away: Wii Fallacies.

The guy is basically explaining reasons why Wii will/will not fail, all based on the whole "disruptive marketing" thing.  This quote made the fanboy in me happy:

Quote
The sustaining business model for the console video game market is more horsepower and prettier graphics. Nintendo wants to disrupt this. Iwata said, “The time when horsepower alone made the important difference is over.” With the DS successfully disrupting the handheld market, what will the PSP’s successor become? A PSP with better graphics and more horsepower is not the answer. So Sony is at a loss as their business model got smashed. If Nintendo succeeds with the Wii, not only will the Wii outsell its competitors, but Microsoft and Sony would be paralyzed as ‘more horsepower and prettier pictures’ will not be the answer to the next generation of consoles.

He's right, what will PSP "2" be like?  More power and graphics are meaningless versus the DS, since it's already weaker than the ordinary PSP.  

He also goes into the reasons why Wii could fail.  Essentially he says it needs to deliver useful/fun products that do something that current consoles cannot, and it needs to do so before publishers and consumers start rejecting Wii.  

[Nick DiMola]

"Essentially he says it needs to deliver useful/fun products that do something that current consoles cannot, and it needs to do so before publishers and consumers start rejecting Wii."

I agree that this is true, and I also think that the window in which this needs to happen is larger than people realize. It took a good year or so until the DS hit full stride, up till then there was not a single compelling reason to own the system. If the Wii, within a year or perhaps a little more, can capture the American audience, they are golden. They need to play up the Wii/DS combo as well in someway. Everyone who owns a DS should want to own a Wii due to some cross compatibility, or because of series that are unique to these two systems. Nintendo has done a great job creating Wii excitement pre launch, lets hope they can keep that momentum going post launch and through the Wii's life span.

[mantidor]

This is what I hate to be honest

"Nintendo’s business strategy was still relying on technological competition. What is striking is that around that time, when everyone sang praise of Mario 64, Miyamoto admitted the game was a failure to the Tamagotchi craze. Here was Mario 64, made with cutting edge 3d technology, outsold by a pet raising game made with dot matrix graphics. These would be the seeds for the later Nintendogs but also of making titles for the mass consumer."

Yeah, its lovely for our fanboy egos to see these "disruptive" games selling millions, but do we seriously would have prefered tamagotchi than Mario 64!? Sure, I know, Nintendo and their "promises", and how they want to catter all markets, they are making games for both types of gamers and blah, blah blah, but the truth is that these games are the priorities, and the traditional games we so obssesively cherish and love will be of less importance, the more "hardcore" or "non gamer unfriendly", the less importance it will get, or it will get raped and made "mainstream"  (mainly I fear for my beloved Metroid after Hunters), and that simply sucks, I can't cheer the company for doing that, I really can't.

[Kairon]

That's fair Mantidor.

But I personally trust in Nintendo. It's in their blood to make epic Mario/Zelda/etc. games. It's in their nature, and it's gonne take at least another generation of game makers to change that, if it changes at all.

Thus, I personally pooh-pooh the negatives of this situation by pointing at hardcore DS titles (Mario, Castlevania, strategy, action and etc. titles) and also point at decidedly traditional Wii titles (Heroes, Mario Galaxy, Retro Studios' next project, light gun games, most unknown third party stuff)and anticipate a renaissance of more casual-esque games:

-adventure games traditionally have a 50/50 male/female audience split, so here's hoping for Phoenix Wright and Sam & Max for the Wii, as well as the next "Indigo Prophecy" or whatev'
-Mario Party IS up to 6 isn't it? They were actually all good, but no matter: Mario party Wii will be the first Mario Party game I buy since the original
-I'm hoping that we also see a comeback for puzzle titles, another non-gamer haven that will benefit from simpler interfaces, less focus on graphics, cheaper development and wider audiences (anyone remember that SNES jigsaw puzzle game by Atlus? Anyone? ... I want THAT remade! It was AWESOME!)
-more Animal Crossing and Harvest Moon... key word being ANIMAL CROSSING!!!
-PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MARIO PAINT!!! ... or at least Bob Ross...

... hmm ... you know, Mario itself as an "everyone game" is almost like a nongamer game with exceptionally high production values...

But yeah, that's just my point of view.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[IceCold]

mantidor, are you seriously telling me that they are focusing more on nongamers than gamers after what we've seen so far? The traditional lineup for the first year of the Wii looks to be significantly better than the precious GameCube's first year, and they didn't even talk about nongamers at that point in time..

The figure for the resources needed to develop Brain Training, for example, was ridiculously small. It was a separate team, and it didn't detract from the other projects at all. Then, as we all know, it went on to sell millions, which means more profit for Nintendo. With that, they can invest in smaller developers, or create a new studio, or whatever. The point is, they still make just as many traditional games, and the quality of those games is still exceptional. For the Wii, there are even many original traditional games - again, moreso than the GameCube.

About Metroid Hunters - Nintendo just wanted to show off the WiFi connection as well as how an FPS would control on the DS. They put in the Metroid name to garner more sales. But we knew this right from the beginning with the demo disc - how could you expect it to turn out otherwise? Further proof that no one should have considered it a "real" Metroid was that N-Sider was developing it and not Retro.. After reading the latest impressions and seeing the videos, Metroid Prime 3 is well on its way to being even better than Prime 1 and 2.

The only thing I would be worried about, if I were you, would be Miyamoto's new IP, which will probably cater to nongamers. I won't mind; I'll still pick it up on Day 1 and I'll still enjoy it just like Nintendogs, but you "traditional" advocates won't be too pleased, I'd imagine.

EDIT: And yes, that article was really good - I've nearly finished reading it, and it was well worth it. I might add some more when I'm done.  

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
About Metroid Hunters ... N-Sider was developing it and not Retro

My respect for N-Sider.com sky rockets with this revelation that they also program games for Nintendo on the side.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
About Metroid Hunters ... N-Sider was developing it and not Retro

My respect for N-Sider.com sky rockets with this revelation that they also program games for Nintendo on the side.

I think he meant NST:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Software_Technology_Corporation

[IceCold]

Damn you Kairon I seem to be having minor dyslexia recently..  Although I did catch you with your "Final Night" thing.

[Kairon]

Touché!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[WuTangTurtle]

I think the article nailed it, almost as if someone deep from Nintendo typed it up.

And about worrying about Miyamoto's new IP I wouldn't worry about it at all.  I have to say i did question Pikmin, and there is not a day that goes by that i wish someone would have kicked me square in the nuts for thinking that.

[BigJim]

Oh noes, BigJim is a dissenting voice again. Whodathunkit.

Actually it's not a bad article. It makes good educational points about disruption. But the author also overstates it in some cases, and the article is, at its heart, hypocritical.

I've said before that the only real significant difference I've seen between Nintendo fans and others is that Nintendo incorporates more "business" into their PR, thus many Nintendo fans think they're analytically smarter. But they're still Nintendo fans and still see things through their Indigo-colored shades.

The article's closing has me scratching my noggin:

"The victor of the seventh generation of consoles will have nothing to do with technology or brand. It will be entirely about the business model. The better we understand the business models used, the clearer we can see where this generation is headed."

First, business models have largely always been a deciding factor, even for the prior generations. Nothing is changing here.

Secondly, it seems a bit out of place to declare that there would be a "victor" after all the effort explaining why they're basically not competing, according to decision makers. Nintendo can win without the others losing.

Thirdly, and what is really odd, is that this article demonstrates the same kind of "emotionalism" it criticizes of others. After explaining Nintendo's business model in great detail, he states that a victor will be declared based on everybody's business model... But the only real acknowledgments of Sony's or MS's models are to mention money being thrown around, the "rug being pulled out from under them", Nintendo "smashing their models", and otherwise negative connotations being attributed to them. It's an obvious implication of "I support Nintendo's model" despite the fascade of "understanding will make it clear" or whatever he tried to say with that odd closing statement.

So while I credit the article for what IS fact and its explanations of market disruption, it's just as guilty of the fanboy emotionalism disguised as "business reason" that it rails against.
   

[Deguello]

BigJim, saying that "If Nintendo's business model succeeds it will be nice" is not even on the same level of "emotionalism" as the "OH MY GOD NINTENDO IS ABANDONING US HARDCORE GAMERS BECAUSE ZELDA ISN'T HARDCORE NO WAIT IT IS HARDCORE" articles.

As for the "victor while not competing" complaint it is quite simple.  What this writer propose that Nintendo "wins" by changing the rules of the race, not by running faster.  I believe it was Rick who said that Nintendo should watch Sony and MS run down the hundred meter dash and look quizzically at them while saying "hey guys, the hurdles are over there."  

For an exmaple of this, check out the sorporate statements concerning the DS vs. PSP.  When Nintendo debuted the DS, they went out of their way to  to say that they weren't competing with the PSP, and even now they only bring up the PSP when they need to say how much more they are selling better than it.  Sony however was all "the baton has been passed, handhelds will be lifted out of the gaming ghetto," then when the DS launched and spanked it they were all "we aren't competing with Nintendo, it would be unfair to say that."  When mid-2005 rolled around and it looked like the PSP was picking up steam, they went on an offensive saying "The DS knows its place among children with Pokemon" or "DS is sparkling innovations, PSP isn't" or something like that.  Now that the DS is totally killing it everywhere, Sony is commenting how Nintendo is losing its core audience to the PSP and is making it up with children (huh? I thought that was Nintendo's core audience to begin with) and the elderly and girls and women and basically people who aren't a small section of the 15-29 Game market demographic.  Where was Nintendo in all this, other than the occasional mentioning of their sales compared to their alleged competition, they just sat back and let the Pokébucks roll in.

In all this, Sony looks like a desperate man running a foot race that he doesn't even realize he is running by himself, simply because he can't decide what market he is in.  And this is why Nintendo's claims of "not competing" are actually true at points.  Sony originally released the PSP as some sort of Ipod-killer, by their own admission.  Well, the Ipod's still standing, so then they pimped the movies.  Oh dear, the UMD Movies flopped.  So all they have left are games, and those aren't doing too well.  Meanwhile, Nintendo changed the rules by having Nintendogs sell 8 million+ copies, which makes it a more popular game than HALO.  They changed the rules by having Brain Age basically conquer Japan.  And all this WITH the hardcore and semi-hardcore franchises and new games that bolster their lineup.  So Sony is stuck which a GTA PS2 port as their top selling game in America and a Capcom PS2 port in Japan.  And things aren't looking to rosy at the moment for them.

This is how Nintendo "wins by not competing," BigJim.  

[couchmonkey]

On the point where the guy says business models will win this generation, I think he's using a bit of hyperbole there, I think he would agree with BigJim that business models have ALWAYS been important, he's just emphasizing it for Wii.  In fact, I emailed him about a comment he made about Nintendo replacing Yamauchi with  Iwata to deal with previous market disruption, and he claimed Sony's business model for PSX was the disruption.  He claims Sony sold (and continues to sell) the Playstation as a lifestyle rather than a game system.  It's multifunctional and it's cool.  He also claims that Sony was more interested in quantity of games than quality, which pleased developers and gave it a better chance at discovering surprise hits.

Now we have DS, and as he points out in his article, there are far, far more new games being released by Nintendo on DS than on Gameboy.  The end result?  Nintendogs and Brain Age.  Just as few people would have guessed that GTA would be the biggest game of this home console generation, I think hardly any of us would have guessed that a pet sim and a few quizzes would rule the handheld market.

For the guys like Mantidor and Ian this is not good news at first.  But once the markets that aren't resistant to the disruptive product buy into it, the overall game lineup grows and grows, because publishers see that this system is where the money is.  How can you ignore DS once it becomes the home of new Mega Man, Castlevania, Star Fox and Final Fantasy games?  How will you ignore Wii if the same thing happens to it?

I do admit that the guy is clearly on Nintendo's side, and he fails to look at the business strategies of Sony and Microsoft.  I think the point of the article was more to defend and explain Nintendo's strategy than to discuss all of the strategies.  I also think he'd argue that Microsoft and Sony's strategies are pretty much the same as always: further refinement of past success, be that high definition graphics, or a supercharged Xbox Live experience.  

[JonLeung]

I didn't read the article, as I've already heard a lot, perhaps too much, about this possible "disruption".

Now I just want the Wii to be successful and prove such a disruption, otherwise it's all for naught.  Not that I doubt the Wii.  I just think that most people won't believe in a change in the industry until they see it for themselves.

[BigJim]

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BigJim, saying that "If Nintendo's business model succeeds it will be nice" is not even on the same level of "emotionalism" as the "OH MY GOD NINTENDO IS ABANDONING US HARDCORE GAMERS BECAUSE ZELDA ISN'T HARDCORE NO WAIT IT IS HARDCORE" articles.

I don't recall such specific over-the-top references being sited in the article.  And he defended Nintendo for several pages, glossed over the competition with negative connotations, and disguised his N* support as "business reason" while accusing others against Nintendo's decisions of similar behavior. It's not a neutral article. I think it's very much emotionalism.

Quote
As for the "victor while not competing" complaint it is quite simple. What this writer propose that Nintendo "wins" by changing the rules of the race, not by running faster. I believe it was Rick who said that Nintendo should watch Sony and MS run down the hundred meter dash and look quizzically at them while saying "hey guys, the hurdles are over there."

And what I proposed is that Nintendo can make their own track if they want, and win their own race if they want, but it doesn't mean everybody else is off in the ditch and therefore "loses" just because one company wants to be the Susan Lucci of gaming and create its own industry and hopes to present itself with an award. If Nintendo wants to do that, it's their perogative and more power to them, but it doesn't mean they're the only winner by default in the end. Because frankly, I think there's a good chance of all 3 of them doing well this time around in their own ways, and that'll be a first. 'Tis all.              

[couchmonkey]

I think a three way tie is a definite possibility as well, but I think Sony needs to wake up and smell the coffee for that to happen.  I think there are some signs that Sony will recover:

1. It keeps copying Nintendo.  This may be too little too late, but at least it shows Sony knows that it's own system is not entirely on the right track.
2. Recent price drop in Japan.  Good choice.
3. News that the guy who developed God of War is putting his PSP game on hold to create a simple, low-budget PS3 game along the lines of Twisted Metal or Bomberman.  I think Sony needs to show that PS3 doesn't have to be all about zillion dollar graphics.

Oops, I mean, PS3 is great, viva la PS3!!

[ThePerm]

Nintendo is simply taking a gun to a knife fight

[mantidor]

If its about business models, ms' and sony's are way bigger than Nintendo's, they want to dominate the living room, and eventually the whole household, basically they want to dominate our lives, its a much bigger gamble and the benefits if they are succesful would be huge, far beyond whatever Nintendo can win. Sony's and ms business models are not flawed, they are just risky (like nintendo's to be honest), have a completly different (bigger) objective and this objective will take much longer to happen (and they are also way creepier, but thats another topic ).

"mantidor, are you seriously telling me that they are focusing more on nongamers than gamers after what we've seen so far?"

I'll say I was wrong only if Metroid Dread turns out real.

Corruption looks like complete GENERIC TRASH! (there I said it >_< ) you know how I always say I try to remain optimistic, Im excited about the game and all that, but Ill just vent here, I am terribly worried about that game, and I have this bad hunch that Nintendo is trying to push it as "the halo killer", its really not a matter of NST or Retro, they are good developers and have proven they have potential, but Nintendo has the last say and they will push the game in the direction they see fit, (like that HORRIBLE model for Samus in echoes, which is just a small example). I can only hope the delay wasn't to add online as everyone is saying. I would love nothing more than to be dead wrong, but Nintendo has given me more letdowns than good news with this new direction of theirs, Ive come to expect the worst from them.

And Im not that worried about Miyamoto's new IP, I don't care that much for him now oh BLASPHEMY!, I see everyone falling on me with pitchforks and torches to beat me to death!

Its funny how most of the more traditional offerings are coming from third parties, Im already seeing myself buying more third party titles than Nintendo games,which is actually nice.

 

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
And Im not that worried about Miyamoto's new IP, I don't care that much for him now oh BLASPHEMY!, I see everyone falling on me with pitchforks and torches to beat me to death!

MONSTER!I can't live in a world where men like you exist! *Falls on his own pitchfork*

Hmm... so... would you be more of a XBox360 type consumer Mantidor? Personally, I would be an XBox 360 consumer if I didn't hate Microsoft so much and if I happened to be interested in those sorts of traditional (FPS, Racing, etc.) games.

If you can't even be interested in Nintendo enough to enjoy the idea of getting Zelda this fall, then Mario next year, and also Smash Bros. and Metroid in that year with multiple other AAA traditional titles... are you looking for "innovations" the likes of which can be found in Gears of War, Heavenly Sword, White Knight, God of War 2, and other such traditional-esque titles instead? (all titles on other systems I'm never gonna buy, but have to say I'm curious about anyways)

Oh, and I can out blaspheme you any day of the week. Pikmin 2? I got bored.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well I think there being a 3 way tie between the consoles is a pipe dream, it has NEVER EVER happened. In most industries you rarely see ties, so I think it is kind of wishful thinking to even entertain the thought  for the gaming industry. The economy will only support so much in the way of game systems and there will be at least ONE of the systems falling far behind. But that is alittle off topic, I do think Wii has potential to be disruptive, and it can be a huge sucess through being so "unique" that it does distinguish itself from the competition. MS and Sony's business models are about as generic as possible with the attitude of "let's cram as much into our consoles as possible", leaving behind alot of innovation which I see as a flaw and a risk (but a much less risk than Nintendo since they have other means to recover from the risk, at least Microsoft does).

On the other stuff like the same old whining about Nintendo and "hardcore" gamers, I just have to say there are more "hardcore" games coming out for Wii than there were on N64 or GC there is just now MORE to choose from since there are also the "casual" games. Once again the same old whining and bi*ching about Nintendo's games looking like crap (or trash like one TP hater has stated) without even playing them is getting old FAST, so please grow up and learn to open your minds a little before automatically condemning a game or having severe doubts based on a freaken demo of the game that you haven't even played.  

[IceCold]

Yeah mantidor, if you don't care about Miyamoto anymore and you think all the first party titles are trash, then I think it's time you moved on.. And Metroid Dread is a small negative compared to the rest of the DS successes.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Yeah mantidor, if you don't care about Miyamoto anymore and you think all the first party titles are trash, then I think it's time you moved on.. And Metroid Dread is a small negative compared to the rest of the DS successes.

Well I think that will be my last time replying to Mantidor, he has some good opinions here and there, but he is getting into the trap of crying wolf all the time, which gets quite tiring. Anytime an individual develops a super pessimistic attitude (especially towards the bigger Nintendo franchises) based upon little known information, and a demo he has never played, his (and others) credibility goes down the tubes with me, it is silly in my opinion to be so closed minded when you hardly know anything about a game (especially a Nintendo one!). Wii will have plenty of traditional games, probaly more so than either GC or N64.

Already we have:
-Mario Galaxy
-Metroid Prime Corruption (hey even if it does turn out to be similar to Halo, isn't that still a traditional game?)
-Legend of Zelda: TP
-Paper Mario

Potential traditional games that I would be amazed to NOT see on Wii:
-Star Fox
-Mario Kart
-Definately another Zelda built from the ground up with Wii


What did Nintendo have for the N64 in the way of "traditional games"?

Mario 64 (Wasn't really that traditional for the time, so it shows that term is relative)
Star Fox
Mario Kart
Legend of Zelda: OOT
Paper Mario
Legend of Zelda: MM (Not a traditional game by any means but I'll let it count)

Not that much difference and that does not count potential "hardcore" new franchises like Day of Disastor.

GC had:

Wind Waker
Mario Sunshine (which fanboys ripped for being too traditional, go figure)
Mario Kart DD
Metroid Prime 1
Metroid Prime 2
Paper Mario

I'm probaly forgetting one or two but still that list is equal to what Wii will have.

SNES:

SMW1
SMW2 aka Yoshi's Island
Star Fox
Super Metroid
Legend of Zelda LTTP
Mario Kart
Super Mario RPG (I am reluctant to add this since Square helped out)

Once again I am probaly forgetting a couple but still around what Wii will have. In conclusion what we are seeing with Nintendo is not necessarily less traditional or hardcore games, but more variety OVERALL. Nintendo has grown quite a bit thanks to the sucess of DS and GBA (profits from GC and N64 didn't hurt either). Yeah they are marketing things alittle differently but we will still see just as many traditional Nintendo franchises as we see "quirky" or "new" franchises. Nintendo finally has the resources to do MORE than just the traditional games, and they are utilizing that to expand their market while maintaining their core fans. Also we have to realize that at one time ALL Nintendo's so called "tradtional" games were new, and not so traditional, so why should Nintendo not try to innovate more?

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
And Im not that worried about Miyamoto's new IP, I don't care that much for him now oh BLASPHEMY!, I see everyone falling on me with pitchforks and torches to beat me to death!

If you can't even be interested in Nintendo enough to enjoy the idea of getting Zelda this fall, then Mario next year, and also Smash Bros. and Metroid in that year with multiple other AAA traditional titles... are you looking for "innovations" the likes of which can be found in Gears of War, Heavenly Sword, White Knight, God of War 2, and other such traditional-esque titles instead? (all titles on other systems I'm never gonna buy, but have to say I'm curious about anyways)

Oh my, did that come out wrong from what Im seeing. My previous post rant was exclusively Metroid related, Im happy that at least Zelda GC hasn't been canceled (it sucks I have to withdraw from the internet for almost a month just to avoid spoilers), Mario Galaxy looks great, smash looks awesome as well, and of course, Im thrilled about what Intelligent Systems will do with the console (not Super Paper Mario though, it was a horible mistake to announce it as a GC title, now Im more in a "wait and see" aproach than just plain excited as I was). The 360 has nothing that catches my attention, not at that price point anyway.

I like the console, I really do. I would prefer Nintendo to have a diferent priority of course, but the games are coming anyway. Its just that Ill rather have Pikmin 3 than wiisports, any day.

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Oh, and I can out blaspheme you any day of the week. Pikmin 2? I got bored.

This is something that makes me cringe really, Pikmin is so damn awesome, yet when asked about the future of the games Miyamoto said something along the lines "it fits perfectly for the console but we are not doing anything about it, because it didn't sell well so expect more lame nintendogs-like games from me than awesome games like this one" yeah I added the last part but you know its true you know it!. Its perfectly understandable, it makes total sense and such decisions are practically expected, but it still sucks big time.

[Kairon]

Well, I LURVED the first Pikmin, so I'd still vastly prefer Pikmin 3 over Nintendogs Wii... but WiiSports? Nah. I'm actually looking forward to WiiSports on its own merits, lol.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smoke39]

What's freaking you out about MP3, Mant?  The only thing that sort of concerns me is that they seem to be slowly getting rid of the strong feeling of solitude from the other Metroid games.  Oh yeah, and one of my pet peeves about the Prime series: they go to all the trouble of making you feel like you're in Samus' suit an' all, but then disembody you for silly cutscenes.  Half-Life-style cutscenes are totally the way to go in this kinda game, imo.