Topic: The top 5 biggest complains, issues and problems of the Wii

[IceCold]

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It's because Nintendo didn't used to do that for the most part. When Yamauchi-era Nintendo said something, you could take it to the bank that it was what was going to happen

Don't tell me you've already forgotten how many games were delayed in the 64 era. And it's the same situation here; all the games will still be released, and they'll be much better off for it. And, even better, they're staggered so we'll have a constant stream of amazing titles. Nintendo will benefit from this in the long run.

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By the way, the console will cost $249.99. Look at that. One cent below $250. Why didn't we just say that was the price way back then? I don't know. I guess we wanted to get some expectations that it wasn't that price and would be more than one cent below that figure.

I've said this before and I can't believe anyone is still whining about this. That $250 "estimate" was from a Japanese meeting or conference. They announced the ceiling price in Yen, and someone converted it to a rough American estimate. Then, through the almighty power of the Internet, the price spread and everyone got their hopes up for it being $200. Or $100. Or free. Whatever. The point is, in Japan the actual price converts to about $210 US, which is well below the ceiling. As far as I remember, Nintendo never discussed the price in North America.

I agree with you that black should have been offered for launch. For everything else, just give it a rest. Especially the strength of the launch lineup, which has no right to be judged so unfairly. It's one of the best launches in recent memories. And, to top it off, all those other games you were anticipating will come later on, polished and ready.  

[RiskyChris]

I will never call a company "full of sh!t" for delaying a game.  I only get angry when games are cancelled.  I've been waiting for TP for ages, but I've never been upset at Nintendo for delaying it (even if by now it's apparent that it's for marketting reasons).

$60 for a controller isn't OMGOUTRAGEOUS, it's at best a bit of an inconvenience.  Aren't 360 controllers $50?

[jasonditz]

There were delays in the N64 era, but I don't recall them giving us firm street dates for the delayed products beforehand... they'd say things like "we expect this to be completed sometime in Q4" and then delaying them later. Delays are fine... and an unfinished game should be delayed, not rushed.

My complaint isn't towards the development teams and their development cycles, those appear largely unchanged. It's the PR department that appears to have changed, and I have a big problem with it. Whenever they rattle off a list of things to come you can count on the fact that at least half of it will be flat out untrue. They announced a game as a launch title before development had even started on it, for Christsakes. That's not okay by any stretch of the imagination.

Nintendo's not "full of shit" because they delay games... they're full of shit because their PR department appears to have no grounding in reality, and feel that it's perfectly ok to promise all sorts of things that even they must realize the development teams can't possibly deliver.

[Khushrenada]

Actually, I didn't realize that about the price. And I realize my post might seem a bit harsh but I'm actually not that upset with what has happened. I just starting writing and kept going about anything that came to me about all sorts of different points and just let it go.

The truth is, I'm still not completely convinced that it is the best launch. I'm not a big Zelda fan so having that as a launch title isn't an instant buy for me. I liked the Gamecube's launch actually. Rogue Squadron was a must have. Bought that with the console. I got Pikman soon after. Same with Sonic Adventure 2. It is the best 3d Sonic game despite what people say and it can be quite fun. Plus, there was Smash Bros. released real soon also. They also had a black console also, if you didn't feel like purple.

With the Wii, there is nothing that really stands out as a purchase at the moment. Yes, there's a lot I'd like to try but nothing that I'd take on blind faith. The only other thing that bugs me is that since I am skipping out on the Wii launch, I have nothing to play on the Gamecube like I thought I would. I guess my DS collection will benefit instead.

[Rhoq]

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Originally posted by: Caliban
I think their BIGGEST mistake is to not launch with an Onyx Wii beside the Pearl Wii.

Thank you.

[Adrock]

Delays are fine. An unfinished game should never be rushed to market. Some games show more than others. Super Smash Bros Melee's magnetism ledge grab is evidence enough that the game could have used a few more weeks of tweaking.

My problem is when Nintendo flat-out lies about game releases when they know there's absolutely no way a game will be finished in time. Metroid Prime 3 is debatable. I think the game would have been finished by November, but Retro is adding online multiplayer. Super Smash Bros Brawl, on the other hand, didn't even have a development team until late last year. The average game takes roughly 18 months to develop. Even if you want to believe that the Smash was supposedly Melee with online multiplayer (before Masahiro Sakurai was asked to helm Brawl), it wouldn't have made launch anyway because there are no Nintendo WiFi games for Wii this year.

And I'd say Dreamcast had the best launch, even if it didn't take long for the game to fizzle out after that.

[Viewtiful mario]

Well I didn't play Half-life 2 until a year after it came out so the "delay" didn't effect me.

[Ian Sane]

Regarding Nintendo lying about release dates here how I see it.

On the N64 we didn't care as much because expectations were established early on and things didn't really get much worse.  After about a year everyone knew that owning an N64 meant weak third party support, large periods of time between major titles, and major titles getting delayed for more polish.  That was a bummer but those that stuck around were willing to deal with it and it never really got worse until a few months before the Cube came out.  Nintendo made mistakes but you could trust them.

On the Cube however things got worse as time passed and more and more promises got broken.  Not all of these were Nintendo's fault.  Third parties cancelled games, delayed them, ported them to other consoles when they were annouced as exclusives, etc.  Nintendo didn't do to well either as games like "Mario 128" disappeared, Zelda got moved to the Wii, second party relationships were severed, and one of the first things Nintendo did was show us a quick Zelda movie one year and then revealed a completely different looking Zelda game the next.  Let's not forget they literally LIED about online plans for the Cube, talking about vague plans that would appear at a future date for over a year into the Cube's life until they revealed they had no intention on going online with the Cube at all.

So can we believe anything?  It seems every time we had faith in something in the Cube we got let down.  I don't think we trust Nintendo as much as we used to so when something happens that wasn't planned we've started to think that maybe they're trying to dupe us.  Thus when they delay a game they're now "full of sh!t".  Now I don't think that's going to be the case everytime but there's no credibility anymore.

And regarding the top five I wouldn't say those aren't issues anymore.  We just got tired of complaining about something Nintendo isn't going to address anyway.  If the Wii sells like crap all of those will be fresh again as people try to decide why things didn't go that well.  When the Cube started flopping everything that got complaints before was revisited.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Delays are fine. An unfinished game should never be rushed to market. Some games show more than others. Super Smash Bros Melee's magnetism ledge grab is evidence enough that the game could have used a few more weeks of tweaking.

I swear if one more person alludes to SSBM being rushed I'm going to snap...

Every game has glitches and other things. SSBM's are more wide spread because (surprise, surprise) it's pretty much the only near launch game for any of the current systems that people to this day continue to play and, as a result, continue to discover different aspects of it, such as wave dashing.

[Adrock]

Um, no. That's a major glitch and one's that is immediately noticable seeing as the entire point of the game is to stay on the platform while trying to knock others off both of which revolve around jumping back onto said platform for survival.

Regardless, that's not even the point at all. Nintendo lied about the next Smash being available for launch, whether one sees it as Brawl or online Melee. Announcing a game's release, at the very least, suggests it's actually in development. Technically, there was no "delay" since the game was never going to make launch in the first place. The problem is that Nintendo is earning a reputation of straight up lying and Brawl is but one example of this. DVD playback? Not that I'm dying inside; it just stings a bit more that it was promised then quietly taken away.

You may snap if you want to, now.

[Kairon]

Iwata straight up lied. The odd and worrisome thing about it is that the Wii may turn out better for it.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[willie1234]

well nintendo's lack of credibility certainly cost them one Wii customer for 2006.  I'm not putting down any money just to see games I'm looking forward to like Paper Mario, Galaxy and Metroid pushed out until summer 2007.  I'd rather wait for them and for the price to come down a bit first.  Of course, fans like me probably aren't a huge issue.  I'm still loyal; won't get a 360 or ps3 and will eventually buy one.  But I'll complain dang it!

[Stimutacs Addict]

the "magnetism ledge grab" actually balances the game. Characters with weak recoveries (Ness, Dr. Mario, Mario) have a large sweetspot that allows them to fall short of the level and still make it back. Have you ever played some cheap*** Marth/Roy players who walk up to the ledge and Cstick a Forward Smash onto your recovering self? Magic hands let you fall short of the stage and sweetspot the ledge so you don't eat a tipper.

except Yoshi.. his tiny dinosaur arms.. yea. sucks to be yoshi.

that's the way the game is played. and don't insult it again or im going to beat you up.

[SixthAngel]

If someone else even brings up Smash Brothers in this thread they should be shot.

Most of these points seem like nonissues.  The only real one seems to be price but I don't see this one having much of an effect due to it still being far below the competition.

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Adrock


And I'd say Dreamcast had the best launch, even if it didn't take long for the game to fizzle out after that.

It was certainly remarkably deep. 5 first party launch titles, and 7 more within the next 3 months.

And third party support... Soul Calibur at launch? Resident Evil: Code Veronica in the launch window... nobody else touched that this generation... nobody looks like they're going to touch that in the generation that's upcoming.

[Ian Sane]

One thing that does suggest Nintendo lying about release dates is Zelda's prominent position in the launch lineup.  When it was annouced as being moved to the Wii alarm bells went off.  Immediately there was suspicion that the Wii launch didn't cut the mustard and thus a Cube game had to be ported to the Wii to pick up the slack.  At E3 it seemed that Zelda was just a little extra help and that they actually had a full enough lineup even without it.  But now we find out that Zelda was moved for exactly the reason that was suspected.  That does make it seem pretty likely that Nintendo was lying about the release dates at E3 to try to make things look better than they are.

[IceCold]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane - September 22, 2006
"MS and Sony just insist upon choking dates out of developers because it makes it look like their consoles will have more games."

Wait, isn't that good marketing?  Why isn't Nintendo doing that?

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane - September 26, 2006
One thing that does suggest Nintendo lying about release dates is Zelda's prominent position in the launch lineup.  When it was annouced as being moved to the Wii alarm bells went off.  Immediately there was suspicion that the Wii launch didn't cut the mustard and thus a Cube game had to be ported to the Wii to pick up the slack.  At E3 it seemed that Zelda was just a little extra help and that they actually had a full enough lineup even without it.  But now we find out that Zelda was moved for exactly the reason that was suspected.  That does make it seem pretty likely that Nintendo was lying about the release dates at E3 to try to make things look better than they are.

[couchmonkey]

IceCold PWNS Ian.

There's also the possibility that Nintendo is putting games off to fill in gaps next year.  I'm 99% sure that Wario Ware could be released at launch, it's not like it's a tough game to develop.  But Nintendo has been saying all along that it will not allow another post-launch drought like it did with GameCube, and with Ubisoft releasing eight games in 2006, Nintendo figured, "Let's let the third parties have a piece of the pie this year and make sure that we have a constant string of new games next year."

Seriously, the final launch lineup is anything but weak, you've got Zelda, Excite Truck, and at least 8 promising third party games.  But the real kicker is that instead of twiddling our thumbs until next Christmas, Nintendo is offering us these games for the first half of '07:

Wario Ware
Super Mario Galaxy
Project HAMMER
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Batallion Wars ii
Super Mario Strikers
Metroid Prime III: Corruption
And possibly:
Donkey Kong Bongo Blast
Super Paper Mario

A few of those will probably be delayed, but that is still going to be a sweet first half.  And that's without even mentioning third parties.  

[jasonditz]

Zelda's enough to keep it from being weak in the same way the Xbox 360 and the PS3 launch lineups are weak, but it's certainly not overwhelmingly strong, and if they could've launched with a couple more big first party launch titles and they decided to hold them back just so they'd have something to release in January, I think they're making a big mistake.

[Hocotate]

I think spacing out the key, big titles is a smart move. If Metroid, Mario, and Zelda were all ready for launch like they were suspected to be, I think that would be too much of a good thing. Hype wise, they would cancel each other out and sales might not be as high as they could be. Spacing them out gives each big game a time to shine. Also, if Ninty puts out too many big games at launch, third party's sales will be horrible. If you could get Mario, Metroid, and Zelda at launch, would you even bother to buy any third party games?  

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Hocotate
Also, if Ninty puts out too many big games at launch, third party's sales will be horrible. If you could get Mario, Metroid, and Zelda at launch, would you even bother to buy any third party games?

QFT.

But the question is, when should we expect Metroid and Wario Ware in the US?

Isn't January a bit of a dead period? Or does the shopping fervor extend right through January and February?

Should Metroid Prime 3 be delayed until February or March to give it meaningful polish time AND give it enough breathing room to be a distinct "Hey look at me second launch of Wii!" thing? And where does that put Warioware?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Hocotate
I think spacing out the key, big titles is a smart move. If Metroid, Mario, and Zelda were all ready for launch like they were suspected to be, I think that would be too much of a good thing. Hype wise, they would cancel each other out and sales might not be as high as they could be. Spacing them out gives each big game a time to shine. Also, if Ninty puts out too many big games at launch, third party's sales will be horrible. If you could get Mario, Metroid, and Zelda at launch, would you even bother to buy any third party games?

On the other hand, if you don't find any of those third party titles particularly appealing, and you're left looking at Zelda and nothing else like I am, you might not buy a system at launch at all.

They need games to sell systems... if you're artificially weakening your software lineup by holding back completed titles, you run the risk people are going to get tired of waiting and either forget about it (like those people who were looking for Xbox 360's in December and then didn't get one in April when the supply was finally there), or worse, buy a competitor's system (and the 360 appears to be in ample supply at this point).

Nintendo is not in such a powerful position that they can afford to sandbag.  

[Spak-Spang]

Since Wario Ware is available in Japan at launch, I think that shows the game is pretty far along.  I expect one Nintendo First Party Game to be available in December...and I suspect it will be Wario Ware.

The first half of 2007 indeed does look strong...and as I said before I predict a Nintendo First Party Wii game a month for the entire 2007 year...with maybe one or two months skipped.  

Seriously though, if you are complaining about the launch lineup, then I want to know how much money you have available at launch...because already there are more than enough amazing games available at launch.  And you still have virtual console games.  And Controllers to Buy.  And Nintendo DS games to buy.  I think Nintendo is protecting its properties with more strategic launches.

[Spak-Spang]

Exclusive Games for Wii:

Madden 2007 Unique Wii version
Rayman Rabbid Rabbits
Zelda
Excite Truck
Red Steel
Tony Hawk Downhill Jam
Super Monkey Ball: Bananna Blitz
Trauma Center: Second Opinion

That is just off the top of my head.  Yeah, it appears to be a very weak launch indeed.

7-8 games that I can't experience anywhere else...and you can argue the entire launch lineup is something you can only experience on the Wii.

[Ian Sane]

"On the other hand, if you don't find any of those third party titles particularly appealing, and you're left looking at Zelda and nothing else like I am, you might not buy a system at launch at all."

I'm in the same boat.  I wouldn't buy a Wii at launch even if I won the lottery because to me there's no point.  I wouldn't be able to find much to do with it anyway.  But my lack of purchase makes no difference.  There's enough interest from fanboys and hardcore gamers to sell out the initial stock.  The real issue is afterwards when "real" people are buying the console.  That's when the games have to come out.

The only problem I see with the current launch lineup is the potential lousy first impression it might make.  Nintendo is trying to sell us on a new control scheme and their flagship title is a Cube game?  That might make the remote look like a novelty, particularly when the same game with normal controls is available for a direct comparison.  Zelda vs Zelda is going to be a hot topic from December 11 onwards.  Every gaming site or mag is going to have an article like that.

The DS is successful but opinion on the merits of the touchscreen is still mixed and I think a big reason for that is because the first impression of it was a port that didn't control as well as the original setup.  It's actually really bizarre that Nintendo is doing the "traditional game shoehorned into new control scheme" routine for BOTH of their new systems.