Topic: Stan and I are Defecting from PGC

[Svevan]

Great Films:
Good Night and Good Luck
Million Dollar Baby
Syriana

Good, with Flaws:
Capote
Munich
Aviator

Note: Munich is actually a BAD film, but it has some excellent things worth seeing. The theme of the movie is retarded: "Anti-terrorism, what?" as though such a question existed. Relating the actions of the state of Israel 30 years ago to that of the United States today is pointless. Spielberg should have just made a movie about anti-terrorism today and made some real points, rather than use a fully justified moment in history to criticize a modern one. Not to mention the violent orgasm-climax is one of the most tasteless things I have ever seen, and this is from the King of Class!

Trash:
Sideways
Finding Neverland
Crash

Note: Crash, like Munich, only barely deserves this category. Unlike Munich, Crash is better than the other two films listed, but still pedestrian and simple. Deliberately manipulating every scene in the movie to mention race is a FAKE way to talk about race.

Haven't Seen:
Brokeback Mountain
Cinderella Man

Note: I hate Ron Howard (minus Apollo 13).


Best Picture according to Evan:

2004: Bourne Supremacy

2005: Cache

[vudu]

Bourne Supremacy?  Okay, you lose all credability after that.  I haven't seen (or even heard of) Cache, but I added it to my Netflix queue.

I agree with your placement for the most part except I would move Good Night down to Good and Capote up to Great.  I'd also move Crash up to Good.  Finding Neverland was a huge disappointment and deserves to stay where it is.  Cinderella Man is good, but not great.  

Have you not seen Brokeback Mountain because you just haven't had the opportunity yet or because you're a scared little boy afraid of his sexuality?

[Svevan]

I didn't avoid Brokeback Mountain, but I didn't run out to see it. I'm sure it'll cross my path eventually.

I posted a blog about The Bourne Supremacy (not because of this conversation, it was long overdue) on My MySpace. I think The Bourne Supremacy outpaces every film on your above list, and I don't think that needs the justification I have given in my blog.

[ShyGuy]

Zero Kudos

[wandering]

I'm going to butt into this argument once again.

Form should always be in the service of function. The shower scene is a great scene because it captures the sensation of being stabbed in the shower so well. Arty directors who miss this distinction make showy, masturbatory films that aren't very good.

That's not to necessarily say that the Bourne Supremecy is one of those films. I haven't seen it, but I enjoyed the original. The sequel may very well have been the best film of 2004. I just have to cringe a little bit when you go on and on about the jumpy editing and whoosing camera. What purpose do they serve? Here's a good quote on the matter, from Orson Scott Card :

Quote
My only complaint is that the director, Paul Greengrass, had way too many cool ideas about how to make himself the star of the movie. Far too often, the camera jumps around so much that you can't tell what's going on.

Maybe the director's theory was that during real crises, things become blurry. Unfortunately, that's not actually true. Your memory of events afterward might be blurry, but during the crisis itself, adrenalin makes you hyperaware of everything that's going on. That's why people talk about how time slowed down or held still.

 

[KnowsNothing]

Syriana sucked.  It sucked HARD.

[ShyGuy]

Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Syriana sucked.  It sucked HARD.

My character is 40 lbs of fat and a beard. That's much easier than acting.

[Athrun Zala]

most of you ARE AWARE that movies CANNOT be OBJECTELY reviewed, right? just like with everything else....

in any case, I loved Crash, and though that Traffic was interesting, seemed a bit flawed but the editing was awesome. 2001 was a nice and deep but boring and overwhelming experiment (The Shining is Kubrick's finest IMHO). Gangs of New York was a complete snoozefest to me, and didn't like it; and Syriana was great, I watched it twice in a row. I haven't seen Solaris (either version....nor some of the movies mentioned) yet, it's on my "to watch" list though. Bourne Supremacy? bleh... the best movie of 2004 was Whisky

[Svevan]

I DON'T WANT TO START A DEBATE but

You're right, movies can't be viewed objectively. But that doesn't mean your subjective response is therefore "correct." Subjectivity must be tempered, which is why whether I liked a movie or not is inconsequential to how good it actually was (something that cannot be ascertained in full, only in part).  

[Pryopizm]

That doesn't even make sense.  My enjoyment of a film determines how good I think it is.  I don't care how many people tell me Taxi Driver is wonderful.  While I can appreciate the craftsmanship, it puts me to sleep.  

Subjectivity cannot be correct or incorrect so long as it is educated.  It's merely opinion.

[Svevan]

Go hide behind your opinion, Stan - scamper! As though opinions are completely separate from truth and falsehood.

[couchmonkey]

Ha ha ha, I'm a casual movie watcher, so I can be like, "I love Terminator" and laugh at you guys for being sad that I don't care about Scorsaysee or those other guys whose names I can't even remember, let alone spell.

Except I don't love Terminator.  I love Mixed Nuts and Ghostbusters.  And anything animated from Disney.

I did see Gangs of New York, and it was pretty good.  I also saw Little Miss Sunshine lately, which was equally good or possibly better.  I liked it more because I didn't have to get queasy from the violence.

[IceCold]

Hey, don't mock Socrates's name!

[vudu]

Actually, The Terminator is a great movie.  Better than T2 (IMO), but I suppose that's debatable.  (The Godfather is also better than The Godfather Part 2.)

[couchmonkey]

Ha ha ha, I was waiting for someone to say how good Terminator was.  It was pretty good, I don't remember it too well. Except for the nude Shwarzennegger.

[Smoke39]

Couchmonkey has a thing for male bodybuilders.

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Vudu, what can you tell us about a little movie called Chinatown? How about that ending?

The ending to Chinatown sucked.  It's not that I disagree with the events that occured, I just didn't like the way they were presented.  It felt hurried.  This is Chinatown.  What kind of lame excuse is that?  None of the people involved (cops, bad guys, good guys) have anything to do with Chinatown except they happened to be there that particular minute.  As soon as they leave, Chinatown isn't going to protect them.  It was lame.  It's most likely because the ending was written by Polanski, not the writer.  He's a great director, but I've had to come to the conclusion that the guy can't write worth a crap.

I just saw Chinatown. You had me worried that the film was going to end on the wrong note, like Minority Report. Instead, the ending was perfect. I'm not sure what more you wanted out of it. I don't understand the final line, either, but that's a small complaint. The ending wasn't "hurried". There was nothing more to say or show. It was obvious the bad guy got away with it. He owned the police. He was going to raise his daughter and bring about the future of Los Angeles, and no one was going to stop him.