Topic: Did Nintendo delay Metroid and Wario to help Red Steel and Rayman?

[Kairon]

Think about it: Metroid and Red Steel both take up the same First-Person action mindset and they would've been in direct competition with each other for consumer attention, and likewise with both WarioWare and Rayman since these are humor-based mini-game party titles.

What say you?

Either way, I think this is a good move, it benefits Ubisoft, and it fights off fears of a game drought, AND maybe Metroid will be a better game becasue of it?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[JonLeung]

Well, they say they're improving the controls in Metroid Prime 3 even more, but I think the delay has more to do with The Legend Of Zelda: Twilight Princess.

You're probably right in that delaying those games helps out UbiSoft, but I believe Nintendo looks out after itself first and foremost, and it's simply better for them to delay Metroid so that it and Zelda won't be fighting for gamers' hard-earned dollars.

Supposedly Metroid came out the same day as Kid Icarus way back when.  And Metroid Prime and Metroid: Fusion came out the same day.  But usually, I'd be surprised if Nintendo put out two major big franchise games in the same month.

[trip1eX]

I think there is alot of truth in that.  

Delaying Wario helps Super MOnkeyBall:BB also.

And delaying Metroid will help other launch fps games.

I think too that Nintendo might be throwing online play into MP3.  The timing sounds about right.  And they did it with MP:H on the DS.  

I think too that NIntendo wants to keep games coming in the pipeline.  They've said so and I think not launching with 8 of their own games will help that.  And allow 3rd parties to cover alot of bases and make money too.

[mantidor]

Nah, the game wasn't ready and thats it, maybe they delayed them but to avoid their own games to predate the sales of each other, not third party titles.

edit.

Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX

I think too that Nintendo might be throwing online play into MP3.  The timing sounds about right.  And they did it with MP:H on the DS.  

I don't think adding online to corruption is analog to the hunters case, that was a normal fps with a metroid skin designed specifically with the purpose of multiplayer from day 1, they didn't throw the multiplayer at last minute, that was done with the single player.

Id really prefer no online, its just a waste of time and resources which would be better invested in the single player campaign.

[Ceric]

I'll go with Mantidor on this one.

Metroid is not and probably will never be a multiplayer game.
Now some spinoff that didn't feature Samus could make a good strategy game or multiplayer game.

[Ian Sane]

I don't know about Wario but I think Metroid Prime was delayed just because the game needed it.  At E3 there were some concerns about the controls and now IGN is saying the controllers are fantastic.  Reworking the controls has probably forced the delay.

Plus I find it very unlikely that Nintendo would care enough about third party releases to intentionally delay the games.  This is the company that regards third parties as competitors instead of partners.  I don't think they would care (or maybe not even notice) if their own game mopped the floor with a third party one.

[RickPowers]

It's really tough during a launch to tell from the outside if a delay was made for quality purposes or for marketing purposes.  Given how similar the Wii hardware is in architecture to the GameCube, I suspect that these are marketing delays.  This isn't saying that the developers can't use the delay to further improve the games, but I would guess that if they needed the game to fill a hole at launch, it could have been ready.

Ian ... your comment about Nintendo viewing third-parties as competitors is kind of silly, because it's the other way around. Nintendo makes money regardless.  Third-Parties only make money if their game sells, so I've frequently heard that the third party publishers view Nintendo as somewhat of a "hostile partner" .  Nintendo could very easily decide for business reasons that they need to delay some income into another quarter, and ask a publisher if they'd delay a game, or improve it, or even cause it to fail certification.  I'm not saying that this ever happens, but I could certainly see how there might be incentives towards it.

However, because of the royalty structure, it's in Nintendo's best interest to have as much sell-through as possible, across the board.  So Nintendo might be willing to delay a game to make time for some royalties now, knowing they can use the time to improve the quality and ensure more sales down the road.

[decoyman]

Actually, did anybody read the interview IGN did with Yarnstock (whatever his name is), the NoE guy? He sort of let something slip in passing, then was interrupted by a legal/PR person to "clarify." What was it he said? Well, let me tell you:

In response to a general Wii question regarding how online play might work, he used MP:C as an example. At which point the legal/PR person interjected to "clarify," saying something like, "But nothing has been said about whether or not Metroid will have online play."

EDIT: Forgot to finish my point, in case it wasn't clear. MP:C is perhaps being delayed to add online play.

[couchmonkey]

I saw an interesting thing on, I think it was Chris Khoeler's blog.  Apparently a lot of third parties are disappointed about the pack-in game, they think it's going to cost them sales.

They may be right too.  Wii Sports was the lowest 1st party game on my list.  The "delay" of Metroid and Wario Ware (I'm pretty sure Wario Ware was never confirmed, just assumed) does push a few third party games up in my list, but it Wii sports pushes a bunch of them right back down again.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Plus I find it very unlikely that Nintendo would care enough about third party releases to intentionally delay the games.  This is the company that regards third parties as competitors instead of partners.  I don't think they would care (or maybe not even notice) if their own game mopped the floor with a third party one.

I find this point of view simplistic and outdated. I have great difficulties seeing Iwata holding this point of view in modern day, especially with how he came from outside the Nintendo sanctum and especially with how Nintendo has tried to get Ubisoft into the game early via the birth of Red Steel.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[trip1eX]

I really think MP:C is being delayed mainly because Nintendo already has a AAA game at launch in the form of Zelda and because their 3rd party showpiece is a Wii-exclusive fps game from Ubisoft.  

I mean the chances that I buy REd Steel at launch just went up 10 fold 'cause MP3 is being delayed.

[Ian Sane]

"Ian ... your comment about Nintendo viewing third-parties as competitors is kind of silly, because it's the other way around. Nintendo makes money regardless."

I know Nintendo makes money regardless but they never seem to notice that judging by their rather relaxed attitude towards improving third party relations.  Viewing them as a competitor isn't the right way to phrase it.  They traditionally see third parties more as something to exploit for money.  Case in point they traditionally always had the highest licencing fees despite having the least incentives for a third party to support them (I'm not sure where they fit now).

Nintendo also is usually pretty oblivious to anything beyond their core focus so I'm assuming that wouldn't even notice the "competing" games.  Usually Nintendo is focused on something and just blocks out everything else around them like they've got tunnel vision.  I never for a second thought that they would intentionally delay a game to help sales of any title that they themselves weren't releasing.  Maybe my view of Nintendo is still a little too much in the Yamauchi era.  This is Iwata's first console launch after all.

[Athrun Zala]

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I saw an interesting thing on, I think it was Chris Khoeler's blog.  Apparently a lot of third parties are disappointed about the pack-in game, they think it's going to cost them sales.

They may be right too.  Wii Sports was the lowest 1st party game on my list.  The "delay" of Metroid and Wario Ware (I'm pretty sure Wario Ware was never confirmed, just assumed) does push a few third party games up in my list, but it Wii sports pushes a bunch of them right back down again.

better for them that Nintendo didn't pack ZeldaTP in instead....

[Mario]

I agree with Wario Ware, but I honestly think Metroid Prime 3 would've been overshadowed by Red Steel and would be a massive flop at launch. Nobody really cares about it.

[Nick DiMola]

Delaying Metroid Prime 3 also put Red Steel as a definite launch day game for me. So if Nintendo delayed MP3 to help 3rd parties I think it worked. Ian I think if we look at Nintendo during the Yamauchi era and look at Nintendo now we see a very stark contrast. Yamauchi is from the old school of Japanese business culture. Very competitive, very ego centric. Iwata seems very easy going, he knows gaming from the ground up, and seems to surround himself with a bunch of business people who understand what Nintendo needs to do to become profitable. The Nintendo we are seeing for the Wii launch is organized and pre-emptive. They knew where this whole thing was going for a while. Everything about the console is slick and appealing, hell the packaging alone makes me want a Wii. Not only that but Nintendo kept competition off their back with the whole idea of them not competing because their product is different. Now Nintendo is showing us they want to compete and rejecting the whole "buy competition and then buy us" thing (with the Iron Fist of Reggie) and saying buy us, forget the competition. Nintendo is showing strengths that haven't beeen obvious for a long time. If it wasn't for the creative energy in the Game Design departments of Nintendo, the Big N would've disappeared long ago. With Iwata Nintendo looks strong across the board, and I think they are going to kick some serious ass wth the Wii and the DS.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well said Mr. Jack, the Nintendo we see now is very different from the one during the NES-N64 era. Even though I do have SOME doubts as to the launch date and price, I cannot deny they seemed to know they were doing with Nintendo DS even with a top competitor like Sony.

With that taken into perspective I think once things blow over there is a good chance that games will be the issue, not the system or how much it is along with the cost of accessories. With the Wii, Nintendo has a console that is doing stuff never done before to suck the gamer in, with some nice visuals as a bonus. I am glad Nintendo is bucking the trend and creating a truly revolutionary next-generation system, so far all we've seen are more buttons and prettier graphics (Unless you count N64 which changed the way we interact with games with the analog stick) but that all is changing with Wii. IF Nintendo DS is any indication the gaming public may not be as graphically "Hardore" as I originally thought, and that spells nothing but sucess for Wii if that perception remains the same.  

[ShyGuy]

Big D*mn Excite Truck will destroy NFS:Carbon and Cel-Shaded Racer at launch.

[Kairon]

...maybe I should buy NFS: Carbon then? Hmmm..... urgh...getting sick just thinking of having to play something similar to what I saw my roommate play for NFS:Most Wanted.

To think I was thinking of playing something like playing a casual/hardcore import-tuner race-from-the-ciops drift-racer when my biggest gripe with GTA is that it's impossible to drive safely or legally! Oh, the things I do for Nintendo...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NWR_pap64]

Like I mentioned in my Wii sports thread this is Nintendo giving someone else a chance in the spotlight rather than hogging it for themselves. People have accused Nintendo of milking their franchises dry (and they are still doing it), but now that they are focusing on third party exclusives and new franchises people are bicthing that they want to see more first party games based on their franchises!

Isn't the world a weird little place? :p

[Michael8983]

I think they were delayed because they weren't ready.
But this will benefit Nintendo. Not only will it allow titles like Red Steel and Rayman to get the attention they deserve, it will save the Wii from the devestating post-launch drought that plagued both the N64 and Gamecube.
Zelda is the only MAJOR first title Nintendo needs for launch anyway.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Michael8983
I think they were delayed because they weren't ready.
But this will benefit Nintendo. Not only will it allow titles like Red Steel and Rayman to get the attention they deserve, it will save the Wii from the devestating post-launch drought that plagued both the N64 and Gamecube.
Zelda is the only MAJOR first title Nintendo needs for launch anyway.

Right, and hopefully if Red STeel, Rayman or even Elebits sell well we will see more 3rd party exclusives.

[zakkiel]

Seems kind of strange that no one has considered a third possibility: Nintendo is trying to avoid the droughts of the GC by spacing their games more evenly.

Personally, I hope that giving RS less competition was part of their plan, because it indicates good things about their new relationship with third parties. In comparison to other publishers, Ubisoft has gone whole-hog in support of the Wii, and Nintendo needs to do everything in its power to make sure that decision is rewarded. The most important factor in third-party support is third-party sales.