Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately

[Arbok]

A long term strategy works for the PS3 only for as long as the others don't release a new console.

Once Nintendo or Microsoft make their move, the PS3 is in trouble. Doesn't matter if its a small upgrade, all that counts is that its an upgrade either in hardware or usability. Once that happens, mind share will start to see the PS3 as an "old machine" and really a console can only get away with that label if its the current generation market leader.

[Ian Sane]

I think the "old machine" stigma will only affect Sony if it affects their third party support.  MS releasing a new console is the real concern.  Nintendo would likely upgrade to something PS3 level so it's not much of a concern.  MS already has something around PS3 level so they might significantly top the PS3.  But only if it makes ports impossible.  The Wii's third party support appears to suffer from the hardware difference.  But the PS3, despite being in last place, has very strong third party support.  Most games appear on the PS3, Xbox 360 and PC because they're all comparable enough hardware that multiplatform releases are possible.  It appears that the individual market share doesn't matter, the goal is to get the game out on as many platforms as possible.

So the issue with the PS3 will be whether or not those multiplatform games are "portable" to the PS3 in the longrun.  I think at the very least Sony and Nintendo will have similar hardware and MS is the only wildcard.  There is also the issue of games reaching a limit where you can go bigger but it isn't cost feasible to do so.  I question how much of a jump MS could do that wouldn't cause them much of the same problems the PS3 has had.

[ThePerm]

hahah portable with a different usage

[Pale]

So if Sony were to go 3rd party again, what could they offer?

Japan
Japan Studio – Ape Escape, Siren, LocoRoco, Patapon
Team ICO – Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, The Last Guardian
Polyphony Digital – Gran Turismo, Motor Toon Grand Prix 2, Tourist Trophy, Omega Boost

United States
Naughty Dog - Crash Bandicoot, Jak & Daxter series, Uncharted series
Santa Monica Studio – Kinetica, God of War series, Warhawk with Incognito Entertainment
San Diego Studio – NBA, MLB: The Show, Modnation Racers
Sony Bend – Syphon Filter, Resistance: Retribution
Sony Online Entertainment – EverQuest
Zipper Interactive – SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs series, MAG

Europe
London Studio – SingStar, Eyetoy, PlayStation Home with SCE Studio Cambridge
Cambridge Studio – MediEvil, PlayTV, PlayStation Home with SCE London Studio
Liverpool Studio – Wipeout, F1
Evolution Studios – MotorStorm, World Rally Championship
Bigbig Studios – Pursuit Force, MotorStorm: Arctic Edge
Guerrilla Games – Killzone series
Media Molecule – LittleBigPlanet

That's their first party studios according to Wiki. As you can see, there is a ton there.

The problem I see with them going third party is the loss of all those bits of cash they get with every game sale.  I would worry that it would cause a significant shift in studio funding given that many of those teams have near unlimited budgets because their games are viewed with a dual purpose; selling games and marketing the system.

It would suck if all the sudden Media Molecule and Naughty Dog had to make their games with half the money because half of the profit opportunities are gone.

[Chozo Ghost]

Sony would probably do pretty good as a third party actually since they have built up a pretty good lineup of first party games.

That's actually how they started out. The first games they made were for the NES/SNES/Genesis/etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Imagesoft

[ThePerm]

sony doesnt own crash bandicoot anymore

[Pale]

Yeah they don't own several of those franchises, but the teams that made them are the important part.

[Chozo Ghost]

I just realized that Crash Bandicoot is a blatant ripoff of Sonic the Hedgehog. Anyone else ever notice that?

[noname2200]

I just realized that Crash Bandicoot is a blatant ripoff of Sonic the Hedgehog. Anyone else ever notice that?

Can't say as I have.  To be honest, I still don't completely see it, either.

[ThePerm]

He's totally a rip off of Sonic. Marupials and monotremes(knuckles) aren't far apart.

bright colored animal ✓
"system mascot" ✓
An unusual species of animal ✓

back in the day i used to pick on Crash alot, im sorry but he's just unoriginal. Jak and Daxter was a vast improvement from naughty dog, although they were in some ways similar to Banjo-Kazooie. If geocities was still up i'd link to pictures of Mario and Sonic violently attacking Crash that I drew in 8th grade. I ended up collecting crash stuff anyways, I ♥ mascots

[Mop it up]

By that logic, Sonic is a rip-off of Mario.

Sonic was created to be a "hip and cool" version of Mario, and I think Crash was too. Rip-off? No. Inspired? Yes.

[ThePerm]

Sonic was way more original in deisgn than Crash, Crash looks like a sonic character (although moreso now than originally)

although.....

[Spak-Spang]

The sad thing is that Crash Bandicoot just never had compelling gameplay.  When it was launched it was a horrible platformer and was subpar.  Below the standards of most of the Super Nintendo no name platformers out there, and far below Sonic...which I have always thought was a poorly designed platformer as well.

Sony has several great games in its IP chest...which is why I think they don't have to go 3rd party, they just need to get smart about designing new systems.  Nintendo learned this lesson, and they are differentiating themselves in the market, and building smart consoles...but now Sony needs to do the same.

[Chozo Ghost]

One of the reasons I say Crash is a rip-off of Sonic isn't just because they're both similar types of animals (which is also true), but because of the villains they are up against. Sonic went up against Dr. Robotnik and Crash's nemesis is named Dr. Neo Cortex. They're both mad scientists, and if you think about it they're very similar in many respects. And also Crash's name is Crash, and Sonic's name is Sonic and those two words are kinda similar too if you think about it.

Any of those things by themselves could be dismissed as coincidence, but if you add them all up its pretty hard to dismiss that Crash the Bandicoot is a rip-off of Sonic the Hedgehog.

ETA: But why should any of this be a surprise to anyone when we're talking about a company which has blatantly ripped off ideas from its competitors countless times throughout the years? Do I really need to bring up Sony's ripping off of Nintendo's SNES controller design or the N64 analog stick ideas? Or how they're ripping off the Wiimote right in the present? With all of that being true and undisputable, why is it such a stretch to believe Sony ripped off its Mascot from Sega's Mascot?

[Ian Sane]

My brothers and I actually used to accuse Crash of ripping off Mario, instead of Sonic.  It had question mark boxes and maneating plants in it.  Come on!  But I think Crash was really just a very generic hodge-podge of popular platformers.  It had some Sonic, had some Mario, and also had some Bubsy and Awesome Possum as well.
 

Do I really need to bring up Sony's ripping off of Nintendo's SNES controller design or the N64 analog stick ideas? Or how they're ripping off the Wiimote right in the present?

I used to give them flack about this but I have since changed my stance.  It's a controller.  It's just supposed to work.  The SNES design is awesome so it makes sense to use it.  You want creativity with a controller?  Well Kinect is creative but it also is a complete joke.  Controllers are practical so creativity is of less importance.  Nintendo are the masters of being creative for the sake of creativity and a lot of the time this results in what should be a very straightforward feature becoming a frustrating mess.  Games should be creative and original.  But basic functional stuff like hardware, controllers and online solutions should be practical.  They are merely tools and tools are designed to get the job done, not be entertaining or interesting.
 
The Dualshock 3 is quite good but before that I never liked how Sony's controllers felt.  They felt cheap to me.  But I like how they build on what is there.  Nothing becomes incompatible.  You can play Playstation 1 launch games on a PS3 controller and it works like a dream.  Nintendo did this with the SNES and they've done it with their portables but they have insisted on reinventing the wheel the last few console gens and every single time they have some sort of controller issue when a third party developer wants to do something that didn't fit into Nintendo's very specific vision.  Nintendo designs controllers for Nintendo and Nintendo alone.  Sony designs controllers for everybody.  Over time I have come to appreciate Sony's approach.
 
Nintendo's creativity however is very beneficial to game design.  That is the proper avenue to do weird-ass stuff.  I encourage it.

[TJ Spyke]

The Xbox 360 controller is much better than DualShock 3 is. Sony may not have a terrible controller, but I do have several issues with it: the pre-school face buttons (seriously, shapes instead of letters?), the worse "d-pad" I have ever used, and the odd placement of the left analog stick. Considering that the vast majority of games use the analog stick to control rather than the d-pad, you shouldn't have to basically stretch out your left thumb to use it. I hear people bitch about the Z button on the GameCube controller despite your thumb being right there anyways, yet they have no problem with the left analog stick on PlayStation controllers despite it being oddly placed.

As for Crash, I agree that he was designed pretty much as a rip-off of existing mascots. Sony was also clearly aiming him at Mario, the first commercial for Crash Bandicoot (way back in September 1995) had a guy in a Crash costume standing outside of Nintendo of America headquarters with a megaphone and calling Mario out.

[Pale]

I'm not sure how you can consider the PS3 d-pad worse than the 360.  The 360 is barely usable.

[Chozo Ghost]

The Xbox 360 controller is much better than DualShock 3 is. Sony may not have a terrible controller, but I do have several issues with it: the pre-school face buttons (seriously, shapes instead of letters?), the worse "d-pad" I have ever used, and the odd placement of the left analog stick. Considering that the vast majority of games use the analog stick to control rather than the d-pad, you shouldn't have to basically stretch out your left thumb to use it. I hear people bitch about the Z button on the GameCube controller despite your thumb being right there anyways, yet they have no problem with the left analog stick on PlayStation controllers despite it being oddly placed.

As for Crash, I agree that he was designed pretty much as a rip-off of existing mascots. Sony was also clearly aiming him at Mario, the first commercial for Crash Bandicoot (way back in September 1995) had a guy in a Crash costume standing outside of Nintendo of America headquarters with a megaphone and calling Mario out.

Agreed with everything 100%. I dislike the Sony controllers for the exact same reasons you pointed out, but they never fix those issues. Every gen we see the exact same controller from Sony with the same annoying problems that it has had since the PS1 era, and they just don't seem to get it or they just don't care.

I really liked the GC controller, and I'm sad to see that setup has been abandoned. The GC controller felt "right" in my hands, and the different sized/colored buttons made it easier to figure out what you were doing and less likely to hit the wrong button by mistake. It wasn't perfect, no, but I liked it better than the classic controller Nintendo is using now, and better than anything from the competition. Although, the Xbox controller isn't that bad either... at least with the xbox controller the analog stick is in the proper primary position.

[Ian Sane]

the pre-school face buttons (seriously, shapes instead of letters?)

Yes!  I HATE this! 
 
I'll get used to what button does what by feel but any time the game tells me that some new function is done with triangle or whatever I have to look to figure out what button that is.  With letters I never have to do this.  I know what button is X or A instantly.  Shapes are not intuitive since, you know, we don't read and write with shapes.  Even numbers would be fine.
 
I got God of War a few years back to see what the fuss was about (not much apparently) and the first quick time event I encountered just kicked my ass.  It's flashing these shapes at me and I don't know what the **** they mean.  What the **** is square?  How would I instinctively know where square is?  Even if I know where it is I can't press it if someone just yells at me to push it right now.  I still have to think about it.
 
The Classic Controller Pro is what the Playstation controller should be.  It's the same design but it's got a better d-pad and instinctive letter-named buttons.  Though I think the d-pad on the Dualshock 3 feels much better.  The Dualshock 3 lacks the cheap feel the PS1&2 controllers had.

[Ymeegod]

Your ADD kicking in again?

Sometimes I get a tad confused (because I own all the consoles so I switch back and forth alot) but I find the Sony's color coded symbols works great for me.  The GC had the easiest layout because the buttons were "shaped" but that made alot of games unplayable--namely fighters where you had to mash buttons together.

I guess it goes by how many hours you log into something, with me I logged in 1000's of hours on the PS1&PS2 so the PS3 controller is a no-brainer.  Watch my nephew play and it really didn't slow him down (facebuttons), the only ones he has trouble with was the shoulder buttons (R1&R2).

 

[Ymeegod]

I wonder if he's using the standard XBOX 360 controller--those European Bastards got a redesigned controller that's why he doesn't suffer the god awful D-pad the rest of the world recieved.   

[noname2200]

Yeah, I'm also not seeing how shapes are any worse or better than letters.

[Sarail]

I think it's the notion of the order of letters.  On a SNES pad, the letters went backwards from left to right Y -> X and B -> A.  That created a mental note in your mind as to what button to push when directed to do so on screen.  You can't get that from the PS controller. Maybe the L1/2 and R1/2 buttons... but definitely not the face buttons. There's no order to shapes.

I know exactly what Ian's talking about, too.  I always get Triangle and Square mixed up if an on-screen contextual button command appears. It's highly frustrating.  And that's even after using the PS controller design for 10+ years. Crazy.

[Pale]

It took me a long time to get used to the symbols on the PS3 controller, but they are second nature.

I can't stand going between a classic nintendo controller and the 360 controller.

BA - YX vs. AB - XY

I wish Microsoft would have just copied Nintendo there to save us all the confusion.

[noname2200]

It took me a long time to get used to the symbols on the PS3 controller, but they are second nature.

I can't stand going between a classic nintendo controller and the 360 controller.

BA - YX vs. AB - XY

I wish Microsoft would have just copied Nintendo there to save us all the confusion.

THANK YOU!

I was starting to think I was the only one that had this problem!