Topic: The Big Thread of Wii Launch Pessimism: All the things that could go wrong!

[Requiem]

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Originally posted by: Magik

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Originally posted by: Kairon


5 . Lackluster online support at launch
We already know that SSBB isn't going to make it at launch (it's landing 2007 sometime), and we already know that Metroid 3 won't be online either. Pangya may not be online either. But what if CoD isn't online, or Red Steel, or Need For Speed Carbon! We know almost nothing about specific Wii games going online, all we have is speculation and vague promises. Maybe Nintendo hasn't even gotten everything worked out yet, maybe it'll be like the DS: online sometime later?

Its starting too look more and more like the Wii will release with a poor online service in terms of launch games and even possibly future games.

Metroid and Pangya is confirmed to have no online support at the moment.
Zelda will obviously have no online support.
We have no info on Red Steel.

Hopefully this changes as we get near the launch.  

Its not exactly the best way to start a new console with very little online support.

Actually it was confirmed that Zelda would have some form of online support.

[Ceric]

Remote control of Tingle!!!! Right Right.  Oh maybe you can be his guiding fairy.  Get some real use out of a speaker headphone combo.

Seriously enough, besides Four Swords, what are you going to do with Zelda that could involve online.  Maybe new dungeons.  Maybe upgrades.  But beyond those Ideas I don't really know what.

[nemo_83]

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Originally posted by: ShyGuy

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Originally posted by: nemo_83
The biggest eph-ups they could make are charging too much for a console whose graphics say $149 at the most

I'm sorry, but that is one of the most superficial statements I have ever seen posted here.

Do 360 graphics say $400 at most? No
Do PS3 graphics say $600 at most? No
Heck, do PS2 graphics say $129? No!

If the games are good enough, the price is worth it, period.

You're right, PS3 costs three hundred dollars too much (bluray + Ken being insane).  360's launch graphics were absent but at least PDZ worked online well enough (and Halo 2 looked new all over in HD).  Wii though is looking to have launch graphics only fifty percent better than GameCube which you could probably pick up used for dirt cheap now.  So if you are paying two hundred and fifty dollars for a Wii, you are really paying a hundred and fifty dollars for that remote.

Nintendo's logic is we fans will be sated with Zelda, Metroid, and Mario for two years...you see, we know nothing as far as the future of the system goes (where with the GameCube we had the launch games, but beyond that we knew there would be a Mario, Zelda, and Metroid coming).  We don't know jack about what games are coming this time next year for Wii; I don't have a clue as to what to expect.  It can't be something established because they have all their heavy hitters set to go to bat in the first six months of the console.  Star Fox and SSB are not going to fill the void.  There must be something big and original, or perhaps third parties will deliver to Nintendo fans for the first time in ten years.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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You're right, PS3 costs three hundred dollars too much (bluray + Ken being insane).  360's launch graphics were absent but at least PDZ worked online well enough (and Halo 2 looked new all over in HD).  Wii though is looking to have launch graphics only fifty percent betterthan GameCube which you could probably pick up used for dirt cheap now.  So if you are paying two hundred and fifty dollars for a Wii, you are really paying a hundred and fifty dollars for that remote.

Sounds an awful lot like the Xbox 360 at launch (which you also mentioned). I'm not sure but wouldn't this argument also mean that Xbox 360 wasn't worth 400$ at launch because its graphics were barely above Xbox? Also commenting on launch price, without knowing the full details of not only the hardware but what will be packed in is also quite presumptuous. There is no way we can judge the worth of the console until we not only get a price but what that price gets you!

On your other comments about future games, I think this is  a silly concern, Nintendo has shown with DS that they are able to come out with great games long after its launch. Heck if you want to get down to it, you can make this comment about any console out there, since it is not known what the future holds when it comes to games. It is almost like Nintendo doomed no matter what they do. Ether they release a bunch of quality games at launch, and people scream about the future, or if they decided to have a mediocre launch than they would also be doing something stupid (By the logic of some the pessimists here).

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Nemo, you don't have an eye for graphics.

I'll point out the thread a year (or two) ago that showed a screenshot of an upcoming Seiken Densetsu/Mana game for PS2, and you got excited over a screenshot showing a branch with leaves on it (obviously in a cutscene) and you questioned whether GameCube was capable of rendering individual leaves like the PS2 was 'capable' of.

Well, GameCube is MORE than capable, as shown in Metroid Primes, Final Fantasy: CC, and Pikmins (during GAMEPLAY).  Plenty of leaves there -- Which tells me you've never played these games, and pretend to own a GameCube.

Good day.

[Ceric]

I think you guys are little hard on Nemo on this one.  I can see the concern that we have come to expect Nintendo metering out the heavy hitters.  This time they haven't.  The Unknown is always feared.  The fact of the matter that besides Brawl and the Miyamoto IP we don't know whats coming or being thought of.  Hopefully after the launch Nintendo and others will be a little less typed lipped about there next offerings on the console.

[nemo_83]

"I'll point out the thread a year (or two) ago that showed a screenshot of an upcoming Seiken Densetsu/Mana game for PS2, and you got excited over a screenshot showing a branch with leaves on it (obviously in a cutscene) and you questioned whether GameCube was capable of rendering individual leaves like the PS2 was 'capable' of."

That cutscene didn't look bad.  In fact it looked better than some Wii games shown at E3 though I will concede Tecmo's golf isn't exactly a huge budgetted game deep in development so I'm not going there.  

I can say for certain that no Wii game has shown the lighting effects of Half Life 2 or the Doom engine, while Quake 4 on 360 at launch looked pretty snazzy.  The reason we havn't seen 360's muscle yet according to developers is because the system is difficult to develop for, not every game can look like Gears of War (cores), but there will be those games that look that good.  

Wii on the other hand is easy to max out and according to developers Wii's graphics are not going to improve much beyond what we have seen (there maybe some more RAM but I am still getting the impression not to believe rumors about PPUs with dedicated RAM).  Nintendo always polishes their games but the Wii seems to have aparent limits as far as raw effects go and shading.  MP3's lighting isn't even as dramatic as Doom3's on Xbox1.


And as far as this time next year goes for Wii software; I would want nothing more than a plethora of original titles, especially a new cooperative character driven IP from Miyamoto or someone in his circle.  I just don't know if I trust Nintendo to walk the walk to do something new and innovative.  I will bite the rumor of a bunny hopping game in development that you use two remotes to hop along and platform (remember the bunnies in Galaxy and the new Rayman).

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: nemo_83
I will bite the rumor of a bunny hopping game in development that you use two remotes to hop along and platform (remember the bunnies in Galaxy and the new Rayman).

OMG! JUMPING FLASH! HALLELUJAH!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[IceCold]

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There must be something big and original

Before Infernal says it... BIG DAMN TRUCKS!

[Spak-Spang]

Must be something original during launch of the Wii...well let me see.

Excite Truck (new franchise kinda)
Wii Sports (Brand new franchise)
Wario Ware Smooth moves (existing franchise, but vastly different than any other game out now.)

And for exclusive 3rd party support:

Unique Madden Wii
Exclusive Red Steel
Exclusive Monkey Ball


Games that will appeal to both gamers and nongamers:

Wii Sports
Wario Ware Smoth Moves
Super Monkey Ball
Excite Truck

I laugh at anyone that says Nintendo's Wii system needs unique new original IPs and such...because with the new control system literally everything is a brand new experience.  Everything will feel fresh and different.

Also just to note at launch games that appeal to traditional gamers are:

Madden Wii
Metroid Prime: Corruption
Legend of Zelda TP

I think we can official take lackluster launch lineup off this pessimism list.  Because as of right now, Wii has more variety than any other system at launch day.  Period.

[Smash_Brother]

I'm worried about their handling of online more than I am about the launch lineup (or maybe how the launch line up will handle online).

We've seen basically everything else that they've offered thus far. The one thing we haven't seen is how they intend to make good on their online plans. I hope that, within the next few months, we'll at least see some official mock-ups of the online interface so we have some idea of what they're working with.

[Spak-Spang]

Truthfully, I don't think Nintendo has completely worked out their online structure for Wii yet.

Awhile back they had the questionare about DS Wifi connection.  They learned alot about features people desired, and frustrations people had with friends codes, and other such elements of the Nintendo Wifi structure.  

To Nintendo the friend's code equals perfect protection for them.  You determine with whom you converse and play with on an individual game level.  So Mario Kart it is ok, the have everyone on your friend list...but with voice chat on Metroid Hunters, it may be more dangerous for kids.  

Nintendo doesn't want to have their online structure be offensive to anyway...they want to be above all reproach.  

This makes it very difficult to determine and design the best online structure for the Wii.  I definately do not envy Nintendo trying to figure this one out.

[Smash_Brother]

True, but like I said, many people long for an "adult mode" where they don't have to worry about what they hear or about friend codes.

They just want to be able to connect to a game and talk to the people in it without the hassle of codes.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Must be something original during launch of the Wii...well let me see.

Excite Truck (new franchise kinda)
Wii Sports (Brand new franchise)
Wario Ware Smooth moves (existing franchise, but vastly different than any other game out now.)

And for exclusive 3rd party support:

Unique Madden Wii
Exclusive Red Steel
Exclusive Monkey Ball


Games that will appeal to both gamers and nongamers:

Wii Sports
Wario Ware Smoth Moves
Super Monkey Ball
Excite Truck

I laugh at anyone that says Nintendo's Wii system needs unique new original IPs and such...because with the new control system literally everything is a brand new experience.  Everything will feel fresh and different.

Also just to note at launch games that appeal to traditional gamers are:

Madden Wii
Metroid Prime: Corruption
Legend of Zelda TP

I think we can official take lackluster launch lineup off this pessimism list.  Because as of right now, Wii has more variety than any other system at launch day.  Period.

Hey Spak, you forgot Project Hammer as well. The game looks like it could be alot of fun if they refine it a bit. You can't forget that it is also a new franchise too!

[Spak-Spang]

VGrevolution:  I didn't forget.  I just didn't know if it would be a true launch game...or come out a few months later, or what.

I actually really like the idea of that game...and hope that it is a fun experience.  I would love to see them add a traditional CO-OP mode to that game.

[Ceric]

Yes.  But Why stop at Co-op.  Quad-op  with everyone having a distinctive character that was assigned to the player position, 1 main character 2 girl character 3 robot character 4 Sexy Red head.  Truly old school.  With combo moves that can only be done through certain characters combos.  Everyone have one.  Maybe even change the game on the fly when someone jumps in.  Yes...  I'm definitely going to have to get Double Dragon and the like for VC.

[IceCold]

Same as Disaster: Day of Crisis - I'm really looking forward to that one, but it most probably won't be a launch game..

[nemo_83]

Red Steel is the only big original game that I am anticipating playing and that is at launch or near it.  Beyond this year we don't know what to expect from Wii.  With 360 there were several games in development like Halo 3, Gears of War, Prey, Oblivion, and Too Human to look forward to (though it seems the system is going through a serious drought right now).  With Wii, we don't know what is coming out next year and I don't think Nintendo will talk about it until next E3, the bastards.  And don't expect to see footage of the next Mario, Zelda, or Metroid for at least two years after launch.  

I'm not expecting Kid Ikarus to come out and truthfully, I don't want it to if they are going to make a kid game.  

Red Steel isn't even a Mature rated game; will Nintendo have any Mature rated games?  Are they spewing the same old garbage about making games for everyone and then making Everyone games?  

[Smash_Brother]

This will be the console launch in which I will likely buy the highest number of titles ever.

The highest in the past has been 3. This time around, it's Red Steel, TP, MP3, Wario Ware, and I'll see what else they're offering.

I hope they have different colored Wiimotes because I use different colors so players can quickly and easily see which controller is which player. This is absolutely ideal for swaping games like SSB.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: nemo_83
Red Steel is the only big original game that I am anticipating playing and that is at launch or near it.  Beyond this year we don't know what to expect from Wii.  With 360 there were several games in development like Halo 3, Gears of War, Prey, Oblivion, and Too Human to look forward to (though it seems the system is going through a serious drought right now).  With Wii, we don't know what is coming out next year and I don't think Nintendo will talk about it until next E3, the bastards.  And don't expect to see footage of the next Mario, Zelda, or Metroid for at least two years after launch.  

I'm not expecting Kid Ikarus to come out and truthfully, I don't want it to if they are going to make a kid game.  

Red Steel isn't even a Mature rated game; will Nintendo have any Mature rated games?  Are they spewing the same old garbage about making games for everyone and then making Everyone games?

Too bad that most of Xbox 360's "big" games will also be for PC, which is one reason why I sold my 360.  I hope Nintendo has a mixture between "mature" games and everyone games. I'm getting quite tired of every next generation being a doom and gloom game, it isn't a mature mentality but a lazy attitude when it comes to being creative. Also with 360 we really don't know what games are coming out next year besides Halo 3, correct me if I'm wrong but games like ToO Human and Gears of War will be out this year.  With Wii we know that Smash Brothers Brawl will be out next year too. So if anything both systems should have you wondering.

[Kairon]

Too Human? This year?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
Too Human? This year?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

That is how I understood it, it still is set to release this year on Ebgames and such. Then again it could be delayed considering it did not get a warm welcome at E3.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I was thinking a bit more about what the Wii's future holds and i think there is much potential when it comes to future games. We still have Animal Crossing, Smash Brothers Brawl, Miyamoto's new IP, possibly a new sequel to Pikmin, Mario Kart (almost a definate), maybe Day of Defeat (I have a feeling this game has a ways to go before it is complete), and of course the Mario sports series. That seems to be some games to look forward too, and I'm sure we will also get some new surprises (Perhaps another Paper Mario?).  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Mortal Kombat.

[Ceric]

You just had to didn't you?