Author Topic: Nintendo expects little profit from Wii in first year, to be sold at or near loss? (Read 33526 times)

Kairon · « **Reply #50 on:** June 10, 2006, 10:59:49 AM »

Of course, when Nintendo needs to have a "new and improved" event in the future, then they can decide to start packing in the VC controller. Of course, that's already entering bundle territory when hardware manufacturing costs have dropped a bit.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

SixthAngel · « **Reply #51 on:** June 10, 2006, 11:16:48 AM »

Finally people are starting to realize that the vc controller pack in is not a good idea. It is an extra, an afterthought for people who want to play old games with a familiar controller. The wii remote and nunchuk has enough buttons too play all vc games. (n64- dpad=c buttons). This does not need to be packed in.
SSBB will not need it to play either, a connected controller might be easier or more familiar but it is not needed.(4 buttons and a dpad/stick). So I am supposed to buy four remotes and four shells to play with friends? Depending on what game I want to play I have to find the attachment that works for that game (nunchuk or shell)? Nintendo's idea of a fast startup and being able to play immediately doesn't fit well with multiple standard attachments.

Some people here still think it shoud be packed in to give developers another option. If you want to play standard games Wii is not for you. The point of the system is the new controls and putting in the old controller implies it is somehow broken and encourages developers to not use the remote. In all honesty the announcement of the shell that would play ported and old style games was probably just a good PR move. It calmed down fanboys who want the old controls until they got used to the remote idea but will probably never be used (aside frome the vc).

Finally if you sell a system to nongamers you don't want the first thing they do to be wondering what input device to use and then give them a device they will never use so it just takes up space.

Jensen · « **Reply #52 on:** June 10, 2006, 01:08:40 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
but also opens the door to developers who'd like to employ "dual-Wiimote" action in their single-player games (you know you wanna be like "Drum Guy" from that one trailer).

A drum game would fully support both two Wiimotes and the Wiimote/nunchaku combination. Unless you want one player to control two cursors simultaneously, dual Wiimotes isn't necessary

Kairon · « **Reply #53 on:** June 10, 2006, 01:53:15 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Jensen
Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
but also opens the door to developers who'd like to employ "dual-Wiimote" action in their single-player games (you know you wanna be like "Drum Guy" from that one trailer).

A drum game would fully support both two Wiimotes and the Wiimote/nunchaku combination. Unless you want one player to control two cursors simultaneously, dual Wiimotes isn't necessary

How would the nunchuck know which drum it's hitting? It'd need pointer functionailty to figure out quasi 3D relative positioning to hit any of the assortment of drums in the demo for that.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Artimus · « **Reply #54 on:** June 10, 2006, 02:08:47 PM »

For a drum game you'd just have the nunchaku and remote hit a drum each.

Kairon · « **Reply #55 on:** June 10, 2006, 02:30:18 PM »

But the Drum Demo featured a full range of drums, with cymbals even!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Griffin · « **Reply #56 on:** June 10, 2006, 02:41:39 PM »

Yeah, Kairon's right on this one. If you have a drum game that simulates a full drum kit, you're going to need that second controller to know where it's exact placement is, so it knows if it's hitting a snare, hi-hat, or crash cymbol.

Jensen · « **Reply #57 on:** June 10, 2006, 02:47:18 PM »

I don't think the IR capabilities of the Wii would be very useful in a drumming game, becuase of the limited field of vision of the WiiMote CMOS sensor . In a drumming game, it would be more effective if the WiiMote emitted IR and the sensor bar picked it up... an IR EyeToy.

Edit: I didn't see a drum demo, can you point me to it? or are you just refering to the video of a couple of guys pretending to play a drum game?

Kairon · « **Reply #58 on:** June 10, 2006, 02:57:23 PM »

But that's exactly how the Drum demo for the Wii works in my understanding. The remote know's it's relative orientation through combining IR distance data with orientation data to know which drum you're hitting on the full set. Only a Wiimote can do that, the Nunchuck can't.

And the IR field of vision doesn't seem to be much of a problem for this. At least, I haven't seen anything to suggest that from this video.

More:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OY8NUaaESI0&search=wii%20drum
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RsPmcZoitOs&search=wii%20drum
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3nQTBdqHikQ&search=wii%20drum

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Jensen · « **Reply #59 on:** June 10, 2006, 03:59:39 PM »

Thanks! I had never seen a video of the drumming game. I don't know how I missed it.

It is a bit hard to figure out exactly what they are doing to hit different drums. The guy on the right is swinging the wiimote towards the side to hit cymbals. That could be determined with just the accelerometers.

Are there some written impressions on the game?

Requiem · « **Reply #60 on:** June 10, 2006, 04:29:10 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
So Nintendo should also pack in a Wireless Router or USB Wireless Adapter? I mean, not being able to get online greatly hurts the VC. Not to mention I'm sure that a lot of developers would like to have online games or be able to patch there games later so they can get a release out like in the PC world, though I really doubt that any console developer would do this. If I can't get online for the VC stuff, which everyone seems to be in agreeance that is the main purpose of the WiiClassic, why should it drive the cost up on my initial package. Especially since it would probably replace a second Wiimote unit that I would find more useful being that I can't get online because of no Wireless.

QFT.

You forget that the Wii is compatible with the GC.

bmfrosty · « **Reply #61 on:** June 10, 2006, 04:58:23 PM »

I expect a Classic Controller Shell to be included with every system. Without it you split the market, and you deny a lot of opportunity. With the classic controller shell, remakes and ports of anything on an earlier console become feasable. Another thing to remember, and this is important, is that Nintendo has Veto rights on any and all games for it's system. If there isn't some specific reason for a game to be mainly controlled by the wiimote and nun-chuck, nintendo's going to deny it. If Konami were to declare that they want to remake Symphony of the Night with better graphics, they're not going to include Nintendo in on the deal if they can't rely on a controller suitable for the game being in the hands of every owner.

The ClassiCon is too important to not to include with every system.

-bmfrosty (rambling)

Shorty McNostril · « **Reply #62 on:** June 10, 2006, 05:05:50 PM »

Was there any bass drum kickpedal or anything in the drumming game??

Kairon · « **Reply #63 on:** June 10, 2006, 06:05:28 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrosty
I expect a Classic Controller Shell to be included with every system. Without it you split the market, and you deny a lot of opportunity. With the classic controller shell, remakes and ports of anything on an earlier console become feasable. Another thing to remember, and this is important, is that Nintendo has Veto rights on any and all games for it's system. If there isn't some specific reason for a game to be mainly controlled by the wiimote and nun-chuck, nintendo's going to deny it. If Konami were to declare that they want to remake Symphony of the Night with better graphics, they're not going to include Nintendo in on the deal if they can't rely on a controller suitable for the game being in the hands of every owner.

The ClassiCon is too important to not to include with every system.

-bmfrosty (rambling)

But Nintendo doesn't want straight ports, remember? The Wii is an "and" console. You have a Wii "and" an X360 or PS3. With this mentality, what the Wii needs are games that make it special, not games that make it me too.

The Wii is supposed to be owned in addition to a traditional console for hardcore gamers. Why would Nintendo waste energy competing against consoles they expect your customers to buy anyways? They're concentrating on being the console you buy because there are games on it that you can't play anywhere else simply BECAUSE of the unique and new and unconventional control scheme.

Quote
Originally posted by: Shorty McNostril
Was there any bass drum kickpedal or anything in the drumming game??

Not that I saw.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Jensen · « **Reply #64 on:** June 10, 2006, 06:17:16 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Shorty McNostril
Was there any bass drum kickpedal or anything in the drumming game??

That would be awesome!

bmfrosty · « **Reply #65 on:** June 10, 2006, 06:42:58 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

But Nintendo doesn't want straight ports, remember? The Wii is an "and" console. You have a Wii "and" an X360 or PS3. With this mentality, what the Wii needs are games that make it special, not games that make it me too.

The Wii is supposed to be owned in addition to a traditional console for hardcore gamers. Why would Nintendo waste energy competing against consoles they expect your customers to buy anyways? They're concentrating on being the console you buy because there are games on it that you can't play anywhere else simply BECAUSE of the unique and new and unconventional control scheme.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

I think you're mistaking their front facing marketing message with their true objectives. They want to focus on new experiences and new customers, *AND* want to be the place to go for the hardcore and nostalgic. Ergo, if they want to be a target for old-style *AND* new-style games, they will not want to have a split market, and they will include the ClassiCon with every system. If they're smart, they'll also include $10 worth of VC downloads with system registration.

-bmfrosty

Requiem · « **Reply #66 on:** June 10, 2006, 10:55:14 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrosty
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

But Nintendo doesn't want straight ports, remember? The Wii is an "and" console. You have a Wii "and" an X360 or PS3. With this mentality, what the Wii needs are games that make it special, not games that make it me too.

The Wii is supposed to be owned in addition to a traditional console for hardcore gamers. Why would Nintendo waste energy competing against consoles they expect your customers to buy anyways? They're concentrating on being the console you buy because there are games on it that you can't play anywhere else simply BECAUSE of the unique and new and unconventional control scheme.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

I think you're mistaking their front facing marketing message with their true objectives. They want to focus on new experiences and new customers, *AND* want to be the place to go for the hardcore and nostalgic. Ergo, if they want to be a target for old-style *AND* new-style games, they will not want to have a split market, and they will include the ClassiCon with every system. If they're smart, they'll also include $10 worth of VC downloads with system registration.

-bmfrosty

That's exactly what I've been saying all along, exept, of course, that each system should offer 1 free download.

Shorty McNostril · « **Reply #67 on:** June 10, 2006, 10:59:58 PM »

I do hope they release at least a kickpedal button you keep on the floor (ming you a real style kickpedal would be nice) if they release this drumming game. It would feel real if you didn't have one in my opinion.

And if they wanted to give us a real challenge a pedal for the high hats as well. But i doubt that would happen.

All optional settings of course. It wouldn't really be fair if it was required.

Anyway i'm right off topic so....

Kairon · « **Reply #68 on:** June 10, 2006, 11:38:45 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrosty
I think you're mistaking their front facing marketing message with their true objectives. They want to focus on new experiences and new customers, *AND* want to be the place to go for the hardcore and nostalgic. Ergo, if they want to be a target for old-style *AND* new-style games, they will not want to have a split market, and they will include the ClassiCon with every system. If they're smart, they'll also include $10 worth of VC downloads with system registration.

-bmfrosty

I...can see what you're saying...Hmmm... What exactly leads you to believe that this is their true objective as opposed to their stated-marketting speak being representative of their true objective?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Requiem · « **Reply #69 on:** June 10, 2006, 11:42:41 PM »

Well first of all, despite all the jibba-jabba, Nintendo said it was an AND company; something for the new and old.

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #70 on:** June 11, 2006, 01:06:42 AM »

Quote
But Nintendo doesn't want straight ports, remember? The Wii is an "and" console. You have a Wii "and" an X360 or PS3. With this mentality, what the Wii needs are games that make it special, not games that make it me too. The Wii is supposed to be owned in addition to a traditional console for hardcore gamers. Why would Nintendo waste energy competing against consoles they expect your customers to buy anyways? They're concentrating on being the console you buy because there are games on it that you can't play anywhere else simply BECAUSE of the unique and new and unconventional control scheme.

I bet you believed Nintendo when they said the DS was the "Third Pillar"

Ceric · « **Reply #71 on:** June 11, 2006, 06:14:45 AM »

About the GC compatibility. My long rant. I mention it.

About the VC stuff. My long rant. It's putting the Cart before the Horse. I'm pretty sure Nintendo wants you online more then they want you to be able to play every single VC game out of the box. As of now no Wireless router or Broadband trial has been mentioned packaged in.

Personally if I was Nintendo I avoid ports like the plague. If this generation is any indication, they won't sell and crowd out good original titles.

To keep the pricing down it's a one or the other type of thing more then likely. Nintendo more than likely wants both of those markets but, they can't take hits, even with the DS, like Sony and MS can. For Nintendo and their Blue Ocean strategy nostalgia is not as near a profitable path in the long run as unique Wii games so, it make sense for that to be their focus.

Even on the XBoxes, where online is arguably there #1 feature and requirements are lower then the Wii's, a good percentage of the XBox community is still not online. (A quick Google search brings up 50%)

I'm really curious when we're going to see the new 2nd Pillar, Gameboy.

Did anyone else notice that in the Drummer thing that all the Wiimotes shown had no nunchuku but had a cord just sort of dangling down?

SixthAngel · « **Reply #72 on:** June 11, 2006, 06:17:21 AM »

Quote
I bet you believed Nintendo when they said the DS was the "Third Pillar"

You still believe the marketing BS about wanting all the old style games on the Wii.

Look at the DS, they have 3d games that can be played on it but no analog stick (stangely I'm far better at mario with the touch pad). Wii will be the same way because it will make you play any old style games with a new input device. The only thing the new controller really lacks is a second analog stick and I would be disapointed if a game ever used that instead of the motion sensing. Not including the other controller does not "split the market" because the market they want is not the people who want to play games with the standard controller. It will be bought as a first system because of the controller and as a second system of the controller. The controller is the selling point and anything that takes away from that is bad.
Lower the price of the system instead of bundling something in that a lot of people won't want.

I just remembered that the creator of SSBB said that people should keep their GC controllers implying that there will be no standard controller like it for the Wii.

Kairon · « **Reply #73 on:** June 11, 2006, 11:20:35 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Did anyone else notice that in the Drummer thing that all the Wiimotes shown had no nunchuku but had a cord just sort of dangling down?

You mean the wrist-straps?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #74 on:** June 11, 2006, 01:32:35 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
Quote
I bet you believed Nintendo when they said the DS was the "Third Pillar"

You still believe the marketing BS about wanting all the old style games on the Wii.

Look at the DS, they have 3d games that can be played on it but no analog stick (stangely I'm far better at mario with the touch pad). Wii will be the same way because it will make you play any old style games with a new input device. The only thing the new controller really lacks is a second analog stick and I would be disapointed if a game ever used that instead of the motion sensing. Not including the other controller does not "split the market" because the market they want is not the people who want to play games with the standard controller. It will be bought as a first system because of the controller and as a second system of the controller. The controller is the selling point and anything that takes away from that is bad.
Lower the price of the system instead of bundling something in that a lot of people won't want.

I just remembered that the creator of SSBB said that people should keep their GC controllers implying that there will be no standard controller like it for the Wii.

You assume too much when you think people will want to play Snes games with a Wiimote, or have old GC controllers to play brawl with, which is why the Classic controller is a must.

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Author Topic: Nintendo expects little profit from Wii in first year, to be sold at or near loss? (Read 33526 times)