Topic: Nintendo expects little profit from Wii in first year, to be sold at or near loss?

[Ian Sane]

I think Nintendo should include anything they expect to be used by third parties.  The remote and nunchuk are a must.  If they want the traditional controller to be supported at all then they should throw it in too.  I'd rather they throw in the traditional controller so that anyone can hop on the VC and go without any fuss.  And I would MUCH prefer that to any ideas of including two remotes.  Third parties can assume people will buy multiple controllers for multiplayer.  They can't assume people will buy a completely different controller altogether.  I'd rather spend the extra money for multiplayer then have a useless tradtional controller that no developer uses.

[Jensen]

I agree with Ian, the only "pack-ins" I want are those that everyone will use(built in 512mb of flash memory for saving), and those that wouldn't be well supported if they weren't part of every system (built in 512mb flash,  internet/network capabities, the classic controller)  

I don't think there will be many games that will require two Wiimotes for singleplayer.  Some may allow it as in alternative to  wiimote+nunchuck,  but unless a game needs one player to drive two cursors similtaniously(unlikely), it won't be needed.  

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
I think packing in items is an awful idea (besides maybe a second remote).  The nunchuk and remote is the standard controller and that is what you should get.  Adding in a vc controller will just confuse consumers (especially non-gamers) and developers who see two controllers.  It is also selling me something I don't want.  Nearly all vc games will work with the regular remote so don't make me buy this.

I disagree, if they want it to be supported they need to pack it in, in fact making Brawl compatible with the VC controller for example will make it more likely to be a system seller.

And selling it with Wii sports will not only make the $200 dollar price seem more attractive, but will also make it more attractive to the non gamer, they can buy it and say go home without buying another game, and actually try it out first, and as Reggie said playing is believing, it makes it more an impulse buy.

Also, the idea of two controllers packed in is vital, not only to the theme of the system, as something for people to play with others, but also it will explain the Wii moniker, the two ii's.

If Nintendo packs in two controllers with Nunchuks, one classic controller and Wii sports, at $200, you won't find one on the shelves for months after launch, even at $250 it'll still seem like a good deal.

[Requiem]

If Nintendo packs in two controllers with Nunchuks, one classic controller and Wii sports, at $200, you won't find one on the shelves for months after launch, even at $250 it'll still seem like a good deal.

That's a great deal!

Really, the only thing that I would add to the package is a VC card thats good for a free download. Basically, it would be giving out the original Mario Bros. for free -- which might be a good or bad idea, but the idea behind it is solid. It not only let's the person tryout his VC controller, but it also gives them incentive to actually check the online feature out and see what it has to offer. Plus, of course, its giving the consumer the opportunity to play what they consider to be the greatest game of all time -- for free*.

[wandering]

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"Iwata has said that the Wii console is initially expected to make little contribution to the company’s next full year profits."

I interpreted the text to simply mean they're planning to be close to break-even on the hardware. I think we were all expecting that.

Or it could mean that he expects the losses from console sales and profit from hardware sales to balance each other out, making Nintendo break even overall when it comes to the Wii.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
If Nintendo packs in two controllers with Nunchuks, one classic controller and Wii sports, at $200, you won't find one on the shelves for months after launch, even at $250 it'll still seem like a good deal.

That's a great deal!

Really, the only thing that I would add to the package is a VC card thats good for a free download. Basically, it would be giving out the original Mario Bros. for free -- which might be a good or bad idea, but the idea behind it is solid. It not only let's the person tryout his VC controller, but it also gives them incentive to actually check the online feature out and see what it has to offer. Plus, of course, its giving the consumer the opportunity to play what they consider to be the greatest game of all time -- for free*.

Heh, if that happens Nintendo will have to release another apology(probably WW this time) about how they failed to take into account consumer demand, and are working to rectify shortages (Though I think they'd be happy to make that apology plus Mario will have more sarcasm to mete out)

 

[Ceric]

I still think packing in the Classic Controller(WiiClassic) would be detremental.  I know it's cute and all but the focus of Nintendo is the new control scheme and friends.  It doesn't make sense to give developers an easy out.  Plus when Brawl comes out the Bundle with Brawl and a classic controller wouldn't look as hot.  2 Wiimotes and Nunchukus, 1 Wii, 1 VC (Choice of 1 predetermined game of the NES, SNES, Genesis, TuboGrafx, N64) Download with step through setup instructions, Wii Sports.  That's it.  The people who WiiClassic is geared toward are already gamers used to the other scheme.  Buying an accessory for something is a no question for us really.  How many of you buy racing wheels, arcade sticks, the six button Genesis controller, or even a special edition controller (Res Chainsaw or MMX Controller)?  Also once people get into VC and they want to take the training wheels off, read as stop playing basic NES games, they'll go and get the WiiClassic and think its a good deal for the convenience it brings.  Packing it in, I think, puts a feature in front of the concept.  Also Nintendo recently announced using your DS as a touch screen input so why not an SNES controller?

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Not including the classic controller would be a detriment, first off you shouldn't force the new controls on devs, just as some devs make DS games with little touchscreen use, so will certain games on the Wii not use the Wiimote, also to take it away would hurt VC usage, as many would want to play the games, but not have the controller, you're assuming people will buy the controller seperately, not so, some will just say forget it and not buy the VC games, also for games like Brawl, having the controller will make it likely more people will buy it, if you expect people to buy the controller seperately for the game, you're going to end up mistaken.

Remeber Wii's goal is to attract the Non-gamer, and the non-gamer will want everything they need right in the box, otherwise they won't use it.

[Ian Sane]

"It doesn't make sense to give developers an easy out."

Easy out?  What the hell?  What's wrong with giving developers the OPTION to make whatever game they want and make it control any way they want?  Nintendo's whole third party problems are a result of this sort of "we decide what's best for you" attitude.  If a third party doesn't want to use the remote for a certain game they should be allowed to use something that better suits their needs.  There is no disadvantage whatsoever for providing the classic controller aside from the cost of doing so.  Stop looking at the Wii as some ideology and look at it for what it is: a videogame console that should suit the needs of developers and consumers.

And these arguements about it being confusing don't make any sense.  If you're so dumb that having two different controllers confuse you then you're too dumb to connect a videogame console to your TV and you're too dumb to play videogames.  I buy appliances or electronics all the time that come with something that at first glance I don't understand.  Then I look at the manual and immediately get it.  All Nintendo has to do is state in the console's manual that it comes with a classic controller for the Virtual Console.  Done.  If you can't figure that out it's a miracle you can feed yourself.

Nintendo picked a remote design because they felt a TV remote was something people were familiar with.  Well people always have different remotes for their TV, VCR, DVD player, CD player, etc. and they manage to deal with it.  

[Requiem]

Yup, Ian and Avinash summed it up nicely.

Plus, if they added a free VC game card, it would be further incentive to look through the manual and see what the Wii really has to offer. Then through word of mouth, the Wii should take off in sales.

[Kairon]

The Classic controller and Nintendo's approach to it is still mostly guesswork at this point.

Maybe Nintendo intends it merely as a bridge to SNES, TgFX-16, Genesis and N64 titles(NES and GC work just fine on the Wii already), Maybe Nintendo will actually release new games designed specifically for it, Maybe it'll be used to entice third-party ports from less adventurous developers, Maybe it's still vaporware and Maybe Nintendo has no idea what they're doing with it whatsoever.

I sorta believe we've got little, if any, ground at this point in time to predict what Nintendo will do with the VC controller. Or even what they intend to do with it.

This lack of concrete details may be the reason we've only seen 3 titles from Hudson officially stated for VC release.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[vudu]

Isn't the reason Nintendo moved to the remote because the old controller scared away non-gamers?  I don't think packing in the traditional controller makes sense--it will scare them.  BOO!  If this is Nintendo's thinking, they'll never pack in the traditional controller--it's much more likely they're include two remotes/nunchucks.

[Requiem]

Well maybe, but the VC controller is the shell Nintendo has been talking about for ages. It has a clip on the back for the Wiimote. So if anyone at Nintendo intends to use this controller not just for the VC, but also for Brawl and the like, they better incllude it.

[Kairon]

I highly doubt that Brawl will require the VC controller to play. The Nunchuck-Wiimote combo covers all basic functions minus the c-stick easy-smash that I ALWAYS use, the nub that I am.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Garnee]

If Nintendo suffers a "slight" loss, let's put this at ~30 dollars, they're still way ahead of Sony and Microsoft in terms of losses.  Word around the campfire is that Sony and MS lose an assload of money on thier systems.  Nintendo should pack in a lot of stuff so that gamers who buy the system and a game or two don't feel isolated.  My ideal Wii bundle would include at least one Wiimote and nunchaku, preferrably two, a VC controller, WiiSports, and a couple of VC downloads.

[IceCold]

I don't think Nintendo will pack the controller in with Smash Bros - why do that if you could pack it in at launch so that everyone has one and developers can make use of it, and then when Smash Bros comes out you could use it for that too?

Quote
Or it could mean that he expects the losses from console sales and profit from hardware sales to balance each other out, making Nintendo break even overall when it comes to the Wii.

Software, right?

[wandering]

Quote
Software, right?

Right.

I mean, no - I don't make mistakes! I was, uh, talking about the possibility of reggie creating a new dimension where 2 contradictory things can be true at the same time.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Isn't the reason Nintendo moved to the remote because the old controller scared away non-gamers?  I don't think packing in the traditional controller makes sense--it will scare them.  BOO!  If this is Nintendo's thinking, they'll never pack in the traditional controller--it's much more likely they're include two remotes/nunchucks.

Then you're basically hobbling usage of the Virtual console

Quote
I highly doubt that Brawl will require the VC controller to play. The Nunchuck-Wiimote combo covers all basic functions minus the c-stick easy-smash that I ALWAYS use, the nub that I am.

It may not require use of the classic controller, but it will make it easier for those who don't want to use the Wiimote, and who don't have a GCN controller handy

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

I doubt Nintendo would bother to make two seperate control systems. People know the Wiimote-Nunchuk would feel weird when you first start playing with it, but that won't get any easier by ignoring it. Hopefully, they will try out the new controller and realize it only takes a few minutes to get used to.

[Chode2234]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I still think packing in the Classic Controller(WiiClassic) would be detremental.  I know it's cute and all but the focus of Nintendo is the new control scheme and friends.  It doesn't make sense to give developers an easy out.

WTF?  Why do we assume that developers are looking for an easy way out.  If I developed video games I would much rather work with the cool new wii-mote than some stupid SNES controller.  Why would they simply use the gamepad that attaches to the wiimote?  They wouldn't, developers are attracted to the wii because of the cool new interface and the cool things they can do with it.  One could argue that they are also attracted to it because of the huge post e3 interest, which is because gamers are pretty excited about the cool new interface.  

If Nintendo really wants to be the iTunes of video games, then they need to give the controller away for people to play these old games with.  But to think that developers are looking for an easy way out is lunacy and shows a lack of respect for developers and gamers too.  

[Ceric]

So Nintendo should also pack in a Wireless Router or USB Wireless Adapter?  I mean, not being able to get online greatly hurts the VC.  Not to mention I'm sure that a lot of developers would like to have online games or be able to patch there games later so they can get a release out like in the PC world, though I really doubt that any console developer would do this.  If I can't get online for the VC stuff, which everyone seems to be in agreeance that is the main purpose of the WiiClassic, why should it drive the cost up on my initial package.  Especially since it would probably replace a second Wiimote unit that I would find more useful being that I can't get online because of no Wireless.  

You say I'll be missing out on games?  Which ones?  Nintendo has already stated that None of the Wii controllers will be compatible with GCN games.  That might change but that's how it stands.  So I'll need a GCN controller for those and a Memory card more than likely.  Ok.  Maybe they should be packed in too.

You know, being the gamer that I am, I have the Wii to play Wii exclusive games.  Those just so happen to use the Wiimote and Nunchuku for the most part.  If not I can probably find it for my XBox 360 or PS3 that I'm also suppose to own.  They'll have better graphics in theory and if it's the PS3 more disc space to play with.

In a way this is all silly.  Most of the people in this thread want the WiiClassic bundled in.  Then you turn around and say that you want the console to sell cheap but, it needs to have 2 Wiimotes.  To keep costs down Nintendo will have to have priorities.  The VC at this stage should not be a driving force on the sales.  It should be the Wii games.  Not the old games.  Yeah, in all actuallity, if I was a non-gamer, non-computer person the package I would really like at launch would be (Actually at $250 I would REALLY love this pack at launch even though I have a wireless router, I got it for the DS (Sort of like I made sure my next TV was HD for the Cube)):

1 Wii
2 Wiimote units
2 WiiClassic
1 Wireless Router
1 Month of Free Broadband
1 Month of Free VC access
1 Packed in Wii game
1 Set of Every possible connection (Composite,S-Video, Component, HDMI, DVI, VGA, Coaxial, RCA, Headphone plug (I mean I've used all but the HDMI and DVI with my cube because of certian circumstances.  Having to buy a special cable thats just wrong, right?))

Why a Wireless Router instead of a USB Adapter.  Simple.  I might not have a Computer but the Wii has a browser so the convenience could get me hooked on Broadband.  This package would guarentee that everyone has a chance to get the most out of the Wii.  Now the Wireless Router doesn't have to be bundled in.  It could be a rebate for the full cost on a Nintendo approved Router and obviously broadband would have to be negotiated with your local provider.  I want all this at $250 which would probably be a hefty loss in Nintendo terms.

Though this also assumes that I'm competent with Electronics already.  But we all know what assuming does.  Maybe we should pack in a voucher for free installation and setup.

I apologize if I misspelled anything.  I have no spell check.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Chode2234

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I still think packing in the Classic Controller(WiiClassic) would be detremental.  I know it's cute and all but the focus of Nintendo is the new control scheme and friends.  It doesn't make sense to give developers an easy out.

WTF?  Why do we assume that developers are looking for an easy way out.  If I developed video games I would much rather work with the cool new wii-mote than some stupid SNES controller.  Why would they simply use the gamepad that attaches to the wiimote?  They wouldn't, developers are attracted to the wii because of the cool new interface and the cool things they can do with it.  One could argue that they are also attracted to it because of the huge post e3 interest, which is because gamers are pretty excited about the cool new interface.  

If Nintendo really wants to be the iTunes of video games, then they need to give the controller away for people to play these old games with.  But to think that developers are looking for an easy way out is lunacy and shows a lack of respect for developers and gamers too.

The developers aren't the problem. The publishers are, and the non-researching mass-market consumers are.

Gamers? HAH! Don't make me laugh. There are no gamers! We are a dead people, trampled under the tide of mass consumerism and sensationalism and the ongoing corporate takeover of our world! HAHAHA! HAHAHA! IT'S SO FREAKING SAD! HAHAHAHA! *slump*

...uh...but seriously. That's exactly what several developers have been saying recently. Their cdustomers are the publishers, and realistically, what they publisher says, goes, because they need to feed their kids. If we want better games and more innovative games and less sequels, then we have got to DARNED STOP BUYING THEM! ... so yeah, the problem is us, and the publishers goe by our spending habits, and most code-to-hand-to-mouth developers have no choice but to do what the publisher says.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
So Nintendo should also pack in a Wireless Router or USB Wireless Adapter?  I mean, not being able to get online greatly hurts the VC.  Not to mention I'm sure that a lot of developers would like to have online games or be able to patch there games later so they can get a release out like in the PC world, though I really doubt that any console developer would do this.  If I can't get online for the VC stuff, which everyone seems to be in agreeance that is the main purpose of the WiiClassic, why should it drive the cost up on my initial package.  Especially since it would probably replace a second Wiimote unit that I would find more useful being that I can't get online because of no Wireless.

QFT.

Why pack in the Wii Classic if you the mainstream non-gamer who buys the system isn't likely to have wireless, or even broadband yet?

If you want to use the virtual console out of the box for NON GC and NES titles, you need:

-broadband connection
-wireless/ethernet-to-usb adaptor/cable
-Wii Classic controller
-credit card

... those are still some pretty stiff obstacles even if you pre-include the Classic controller.

I'm imagining something more like a $30 classic controller accessory pack:

$30
Wii Classic Controller
code/card good for any 2 free VC games (the packaging would feature Sega's Sonic, Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: OoT, and Hudson's R-Type, among other games)

This way you make a conscious decision to opt into the virtual console BECAUSE you already know you have a connection.

But, what will get people to try out the virtual console, you ask?

Well, the Wii controller can play NES titles. That'll be the section that people try out the virtual console concept with, and then they'll graduate to other titles when they see that big list of awesome titles that they cannot buy.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Ceric]

Ok. QFT.  I don't know that one. (Edit: Found it.  I'm good.)

I like the Bundle pack idea that Kairon has.  Get the classic controller and any 2 VC games.

Alternatively, why not have a full controller bundle?  Assuming that the Classic and Wiimote w/ Nunchuku sells at $30 each.  Sell the pack with them all for $50, which is the price of a game, throw in 2 cheap VC games and call it a day.  Or even a VC card pack if they go with that idea like some have mentioned.  I personally wouldn't mind if Nintendo dug up the E-Reader stuff and made it an accessory.   Collectable cards I could get into that.  But on average it would mean that you probably pay more for the games then straight up but they be great for promotions.  Also that could be the only way to get some games until demand deems a full release.  Take this one step forward.  Nintendo would give you some form of credit for the games you already own.  So if you get a DK and it's you're third.  You scan it anyways and Nintendo checks it off in there database and gives you a credit for the price of the game minus a dollar or something.

You know I think this coudl use it's own thread.

[decoyman]

I think there IS some possibility for the classic controller to be packed in, since I assume SSBB will end up using it, and that's bound to be one of THE games people will own for Wii.

However, the much greater possibility is that the VC controller won't be, but there'll be two Wiimotes packed in, each w/ nunchuku attachments. This not only goes hand-in-hand with Nintendo's "Wii" name (2 'i's which symbolize the Wiimotes, and the fundamental idea of "We" and playing together) strategy, but also opens the door to developers who'd like to employ "dual-Wiimote" action in their single-player games (you know you wanna be like "Drum Guy" from that one trailer).