Author Topic: My Sony Rant, Consolidated  (Read 24178 times)

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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2006, 01:17:02 AM »
2. Severely overestimated the selling power of the Playstation name

We don't know for sure until the generation is well in progress and the PS3 failing. For all we know the public is a bunch of gullible idiots that will gobble up everything Sony is throwing their way. This will really test the old saying "noone ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the buying public" (yes I know that was worded slightly different).

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2006, 08:00:01 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k We don't know for sure until the generation is well in progress and the PS3 failing. For all we know the public is a bunch of gullible idiots that will gobble up everything Sony is throwing their way. This will really test the old saying "noone ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the buying public" (yes I know that was worded slightly different).


I largely mean in conjunction with the $600 price tag as I know for a fact that that is stopping even the most dedicated fans in many cases.

Like I said, if Sony dropped the price to $300-400, they could still be a contender in this war. As of now, I just don't see that happening as even the very dumbest of customers tend to not have $600 in spending cash just lying about.
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Offline Arbok

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2006, 09:27:30 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: capamerica
Sony bought MGM back in September 2004 for $5 billion. Sony and MGM are one in the same. Their is no arguing it.


They bought a commanding share size, they didn't buy the company, which is why Fox is now releasing their films on home video and Sony is taking up the theatrical releases (place it in line with what happened to Square before the Enix merge if it helps).

EDIT:

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2006-05-31#film1
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2006, 11:32:19 AM »
Quote


In this coming gen, Sony doesn't have the year-long lead on its competition, nor does it have the necessary 3rd party support to push PS3s. With the 360 sharing over 50% of its titles already, reasons to buy a PS3 can be counted on one hand (mainly, MGS4 and FF13).


I disagree on this, you're admitting up front that Sony has got MGS and Final Fantasy, and chances are good that Sony will have DragonQuest, Devil May Cry, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Ridge Racer, and a vast majority of Japanese RPGs on its side as well.  Some of those may change if PS3 is a huge failure, but up front I think a lot of publishers will support PS3 just because Sony is the incumbent.  Especially in Japan where PS2 leads by a huge margin, and Xbox 360 has proven to be even less popular than the original.

Quote


3. Overpriced the PS3 by a long-shot
Many were shocked when Kutaragi (or whoever it was) insisted with a straight face that, at $600, the PS3 was "too cheap". The truth is, the people at Sony might actually BELIEVE this because, in Sony's eyes, the PS3 is both the successor to it's Playstation line AND a "cheap" Blu-Ray player.


I agree Sony's attitude about pricing is arrogant, but I'm not convinced the price is going to kill the system by any means.  Looking at other consumer electronics when they were new: iPod, Video Cameras, HDTVs, Digital Cameras, DVD, DVD R, I think iPod is the only one that might have been cheaper than the PS3 - and it was still "up there", at least in Canada they were running $400 two years ago.
Sony will sell out at launch, I'm quite sure.  Look at what people were paying for Xbox 360 on Ebay last Christmas.  And as crazy as that was, I vaguely remember PS2 going for even more, maybe as much as $2000 US.  After launch fever wears off and the holidays pass, I think Sony's sales will cool off due to the price, but key game releases (Final Fantasy and MGS) will probably reignite it.  I know that if the shoe was on the other foot, I'd have a hard time resisting the latest Zelda and Mario games, even if the system was going to cost me $600.

The Blu-Ray playback is interesting...I think it might take off in the end, but Sony is going to have a hard time.  Looking at UMDs, they didn't sell and now some publishers are backing out.  The same thing could very easily happen to PS3, especially early on when few people will have HDTVs.  The device is not a bad deal if you want it for Blu-Ray playback, for sure, but does anyone want it for that?  Blu-Ray is a double-edged sword.  The price it adds could crush Sony, the benefit it adds could save it.  Who knows?  I am leaning towards hurting more than helping.  
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Offline Louieturkey

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2006, 06:39:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Quote


The Blu-Ray playback is interesting...I think it might take off in the end, but Sony is going to have a hard time.  Looking at UMDs, they didn't sell and now some publishers are backing out.  The same thing could very easily happen to PS3, especially early on when few people will have HDTVs.  The device is not a bad deal if you want it for Blu-Ray playback, for sure, but does anyone want it for that?  Blu-Ray is a double-edged sword.  The price it adds could crush Sony, the benefit it adds could save it.  Who knows?  I am leaning towards hurting more than helping.


Actually, you really can't look at the UMD format as a parallel at all because the PSP is the
only hardware to support it.  Bluray will be getting a bunch of standalone players dedicated to it only.  In fact, Pioneer is expecting to completely move away from selling its high end elite dvd players and only sell Bluray with that label.  Bluray will get a lot more support as well.  Sony is trying to take over dvd as the main stay in home video, they will push the format a lot harder than they did with UMD.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2006, 07:33:16 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I disagree on this, you're admitting up front that Sony has got MGS and Final Fantasy, and chances are good that Sony will have DragonQuest, Devil May Cry, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Ridge Racer, and a vast majority of Japanese RPGs on its side as well.  Some of those may change if PS3 is a huge failure, but up front I think a lot of publishers will support PS3 just because Sony is the incumbent.  Especially in Japan where PS2 leads by a huge margin, and Xbox 360 has proven to be even less popular than the original.


Thing is, I'll take "actually confirmed" over "chances are" any day, like how the Wii has Dragon Quest and FF:CC CONFIRMED on the system, both with launch dates, if I'm not mistaken.

Besides, if these other games (potential killer apps that they are) were actually in development, why did Sony not show them at E3 but instead gave a wholly lackluster E3 keynote?

I think Nintendo has Japan in the bag. If the DS vs. PSP fight showed us anything (especially in Japan), it's that the Sony brand name doesn't make up for a lack of games and a horrible price. I give Japan to Nintendo unless Sony pulls a lower price and a pile of exclusives out of their arse. FF and MGS aren't launch titles, either, which leaves the launch looking pretty goddamn awful.

Also, one of the main reasons people cite the Xbox as having failed in Japan is that it's huge in a country where space is hard to come by and is considered a valuable commodity. The iPod is also an American product and yet the Japanese friggin' love the thing.

For as big as the Xbox was, the PS3 will be even bigger. The Wii will be tiny and convenient. That, and the Wii will supposedly launch in Japan with a Dragon Quest game, the same franchise which the government demanded that it only have games released on weekends because far too many people would skip school and work to go buy the game otherwise.

Like I said, I think Nintendo has Japan in the BAG.

Quote

I agree Sony's attitude about pricing is arrogant, but I'm not convinced the price is going to kill the system by any means.  Looking at other consumer electronics when they were new: iPod, Video Cameras, HDTVs, Digital Cameras, DVD, DVD R, I think iPod is the only one that might have been cheaper than the PS3 - and it was still "up there", at least in Canada they were running $400 two years ago.


I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The iPod didn't have competition in that other mp3 players could play a different set of songs. Entertainment mediums are different in that they have exclusive titles and those are what make or break the system. The PS2 did so incredibly well because it had these big and often controversial games which made it sell. At the beginning of the new gen, everyone starts from zero. A lot of the exclusive titles which made the PS2 will be on other consoles and will not be a reason to own a PS3.

Quote

Sony will sell out at launch, I'm quite sure.  Look at what people were paying for Xbox 360 on Ebay last Christmas.  And as crazy as that was, I vaguely remember PS2 going for even more, maybe as much as $2000 US.  After launch fever wears off and the holidays pass, I think Sony's sales will cool off due to the price, but key game releases (Final Fantasy and MGS) will probably reignite it.  I know that if the shoe was on the other foot, I'd have a hard time resisting the latest Zelda and Mario games, even if the system was going to cost me $600.


They'll sell out because they'll pull the same crap as they did with the PSP: ship an inadequate amount of units and then declare that it's sold out, and then maybe buy back their own stock, like I suspect they're doing with the PSP. It sounds crazy, but if they've really sold more than 10 million units and almost less than that in software, something is amiss.

You'll always have the hardcore early adopters, but I think that, by the time MGS4 and FF13 have launch dates, the PS3's failure will very likely be apparent and it might be time for Square and Konami to consider porting those games elsewhere.

Quote

The Blu-Ray playback is interesting...I think it might take off in the end, but Sony is going to have a hard time.  Looking at UMDs, they didn't sell and now some publishers are backing out.  The same thing could very easily happen to PS3, especially early on when few people will have HDTVs.  The device is not a bad deal if you want it for Blu-Ray playback, for sure, but does anyone want it for that?  Blu-Ray is a double-edged sword.  The price it adds could crush Sony, the benefit it adds could save it.  Who knows?  I am leaning towards hurting more than helping.


I'm leaning toward hurting as well, since, like many have said here, the whole HDDVD vs. BluRay might very well be a war which is being fought over a VERY small piece of the pie. DVDs brought many advantages over VHS, including DRASTICALLY better picture on your existing TV. HDVD and BR are likely fighting for a market which won't even exist for another 5-7 years when HDTVs have become a real standard.

I think Sony should release a version of the PS3 for $300 which has no BluRay playback, or scrap whatever it is which is making the system so expensive. The price point will make a great amount of difference in this coming console war, and I expect people will simply pass on the console and its exclusives when the price is $500.

There are different levels of fandom. Yes, there are the people who will buy whatever console has their favorite franchise for whatever price, but there are far, far more people who would like to play a specific game but aren't willing to shell out $500 to play it.

If anything, Sony's plan is the exact opposite of Nintendo's: appeal ONLY to the hardcore via hardcore franchises and make the system VERY unattractive to non-gamers.
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Offline Jin-X

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2006, 07:38:38 PM »
The download comparisons of movies to music are completely useless, music is like 5MBs or less per song (at a lower quality than CDs), movies are huge files. A 2 disc set would be like 17+ GBs (2 dual-layered discs), and if you compress it to make it smaller I'll give a huge Go F yourself if you're gonna reduce the picture quality. Dual-layered HD-DVDs are 30 GBs, so how the hell are you gonna download a full High-Def movie? Where are you gonna store it, and all those bunch of movies? What happens if your terabyte drive that you will need for this crashes? And you're crazy think that downloading movies to then be burned on a disc will be mainstream as opposed to just buying it and putting it on the player.

Digital distribution of movies won't take over as the main distribution of movies, it will have it's mostly niche market.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2006, 08:05:19 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Jin-X
The download comparisons of movies to music are completely useless, music is like 5MBs or less per song (at a lower quality than CDs), movies are huge files. A 2 disc set would be like 17+ GBs (2 dual-layered discs), and if you compress it to make it smaller I'll give a huge Go F yourself if you're gonna reduce the picture quality. Dual-layered HD-DVDs are 30 GBs, so how the hell are you gonna download a full High-Def movie? Where are you gonna store it, and all those bunch of movies? What happens if your terabyte drive that you will need for this crashes? And you're crazy think that downloading movies to then be burned on a disc will be mainstream as opposed to just buying it and putting it on the player.


It isn't going to happen tomorrow, but it'll definitely happen some day.

As digital rights distribution continues to get better, publishers will jump on the notion of being able to sell movies without having to spend millions on packaging and printing of discs.

Internet connections are getting faster all the time as well. In many cities, you can get fiber connections (link) and those will allow a 17 GB DVD data file to be downloaded in roughly 25 minutes: that's less time than it'll take you to go to the store to buy/rent a DVD.

Or, you could rent it using digital cable and burn it using a DVR like my parents do, and they're over 50. If senior citizens can figure out how to steal movies with this system, then I'm quite certain that the rest of the world can do it as well.
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2006, 09:11:04 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Louieturkey

Actually, you really can't look at the UMD format as a parallel at all because the PSP is the only hardware to support it. Bluray will be getting a bunch of standalone players dedicated to it only.

You're right that it's not the same situation as UMD, but my point is still valid: Bluray could fail or it could take several years for it to become popular.  If that's the case, then you can't justify a PS3 purchase with, "It plays Bluray".  Sony may push the format harder than UMD, but if people really don't want it, that won't help.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

Thing is, I'll take "actually confirmed" over "chances are" any day, like how the Wii has Dragon Quest and FF:CC CONFIRMED on the system, both with launch dates, if I'm not mistaken.


But if they both turn out to be so-so spin-offs, like the original Crystal Chronicles, then nobody will care. Dragon Quest Yangus sold moderately well in Japan, but it was nowhere near Dragon Quest VIII sales.  SquareEnix still seems to be reserving the "real" games in each series for Sony.  I might be wrong when it comes to Dragon Quest, but we already know this to be true for Final Fantasy.

Quote

I think Nintendo has Japan in the bag. If the DS vs. PSP fight showed us anything (especially in Japan), it's that the Sony brand name doesn't make up for a lack of games and a horrible price.


DS vs, PSP...Nintendo has been the leader in handhelds for years, it's not exactly the same, but you're right about lack of games and a bad price.  I think Nintendo will do very well in Japan, but Sony will remain competitive.  Unless Nintendo can make Wii the only system anybody wants to own over there, I think PS3 could become the "luxury" system, with people buying both in many cases.  I don't consider Xbox 360 a factor.  It could turn around, but it's off to such a horrible start, it has no momentum.

Quote

Entertainment mediums are different in that they have exclusive titles and those are what make or break the system. The PS2 did so incredibly well because it had these big and often controversial games which made it sell. At the beginning of the new gen, everyone starts from zero. A lot of the exclusive titles which made the PS2 will be on other consoles and will not be a reason to own a PS3.


I remember thinking similar things at the beginning of the previous generation.  Resident Evil went to Nintendo, Odddworld and Metal Gear went to Microsoft, Crash, Spyro and Tomb Raider went everywhere...and it didn't hurt Sony one bit.  Losing Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest would be a bigger blow, and the fact that Grand Theft Auto is no longer exclusive has to hurt Sony, but Sony came back from those previous losses with hardly any trouble at all.  PS2 also got away with a horrible launch lineup, but I'll admit it had only Sega for competition.  

I still don't think the price is a huge deal, if the games are there.  Of course, they aren't yet, which is a problem.  I think PS3's success depends a lot on what games it gets out in the next year.  I'm working under the assumption that MGS and FF will come out in 2007.  If that's wrong, then yes, Sony is in a lot of trouble.  
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Offline Kairon

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2006, 09:28:10 AM »
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2006, 10:42:22 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey I still don't think the price is a huge deal, if the games are there.  Of course, they aren't yet, which is a problem.  I think PS3's success depends a lot on what games it gets out in the next year.  I'm working under the assumption that MGS and FF will come out in 2007.  If that's wrong, then yes, Sony is in a lot of trouble.


I see the same combination as the PSP in the PS3: media format no one wants or needs, few worthwhile games and even worthwhile games don't sell many systems (ala GTA: Liberty City Stories), overpriced, better hardware than the competition, too damn big, lost to a system with inferior graphics but more innovation and different control scheme, etc.

Even a MGS game at launch or near launch didn't save the PSP (Acid). I think if it's horribly overpriced and has only a few gems for games, it won't do well, and I know this because the PSP is a prime example of it.
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Offline capamerica

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2006, 01:26:07 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote

Originally posted by: capamerica
Sony bought MGM back in September 2004 for $5 billion. Sony and MGM are one in the same. Their is no arguing it.


They bought a commanding share size, they didn't buy the company, which is why Fox is now releasing their films on home video and Sony is taking up the theatrical releases (place it in line with what happened to Square before the Enix merge if it helps).

EDIT:

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2006-05-31#film1


Sony didn't own Sqaure, they just had a large stock holding in them. MGM on the other hand they partly own.

"MGM is owned by an investor consortium comprised of Sony Corporation of America, Providence Equity Partners, Texas Pacific Group, Comcast Corporation and DLJ Merchant Banking Partners."
-MGM.com

http://www.mgm.com/corp_news_releases.do?id=426  
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Offline Jin-X

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2006, 03:08:42 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote

Originally posted by: Jin-X
The download comparisons of movies to music are completely useless, music is like 5MBs or less per song (at a lower quality than CDs), movies are huge files. A 2 disc set would be like 17+ GBs (2 dual-layered discs), and if you compress it to make it smaller I'll give a huge Go F yourself if you're gonna reduce the picture quality. Dual-layered HD-DVDs are 30 GBs, so how the hell are you gonna download a full High-Def movie? Where are you gonna store it, and all those bunch of movies? What happens if your terabyte drive that you will need for this crashes? And you're crazy think that downloading movies to then be burned on a disc will be mainstream as opposed to just buying it and putting it on the player.


It isn't going to happen tomorrow, but it'll definitely happen some day.

As digital rights distribution continues to get better, publishers will jump on the notion of being able to sell movies without having to spend millions on packaging and printing of discs.

Internet connections are getting faster all the time as well. In many cities, you can get fiber connections (link) and those will allow a 17 GB DVD data file to be downloaded in roughly 25 minutes: that's less time than it'll take you to go to the store to buy/rent a DVD.

Or, you could rent it using digital cable and burn it using a DVR like my parents do, and they're over 50. If senior citizens can figure out how to steal movies with this system, then I'm quite certain that the rest of the world can do it as well.



You still haven't provided where are you gonna store a ton of movies and the fact that storing movies from cable comes nowhere near the quality of current DVDs and HD-DVDs. Cable and Satellite shows are heavily compressed for space and usually "formatted to fit your screen".

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2006, 07:30:14 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Jin-X You still haven't provided where are you gonna store a ton of movies and the fact that storing movies from cable comes nowhere near the quality of current DVDs and HD-DVDs. Cable and Satellite shows are heavily compressed for space and usually "formatted to fit your screen".


They can be burned to DVDs and stored that way, just like my 'rents do it, and I have news for you: Digital Cable quality is identical to DVD, especially if it's HDDVD movies (which are already supported by some networks and will be supported by Digital Cable at some point).

And for computer storage, what about a 300 GB HD for $180, included in an external dual USB AND Ethernet enclosure? (I think I just found my Wii memory card...).

Five years ago, someone would have said, "How are you going to store your entire music collection on a HD when HDs are so small and mp3 quality is so bad?"

Now, we have HDs which can store literally MONTHS worth of music, connections which can acquire an mp3 in mere seconds, and audio formats which preserve CD quality sound.

We had none of that 5 years ago.

The question is not "how?". The question is "when?".
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Offline ThePerm

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2006, 09:26:06 PM »
you know at this time in the original playstation's life cycle it was 99.99 and had games that were 9.99 each. It won mainly because of a pricewar.  
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Offline King of Twitch

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2006, 12:11:00 AM »
Not sure if it's been posted but I read on IMDB: Pioneer "will postpone its U.S. launch of Blu-ray players because of delays in Sony's completion of the system's development" from this month to later this year.

It also says it gives Toshiba's HD-DVD players (which came out in Japan in April) an advantage


Wiki says they came out the last day of March, and April in the US. HMM. Sooo High Dollar-DVD will have maybe a 7-month advantage over bluuuray instead of 3. It's still pretty early in the game.
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Offline capamerica

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2006, 03:35:37 AM »
Does anyone know how much Blu-Ray movies are going to retail for? Because GameStop just added Used HD-DVD movies to their site and the are $15 each. That only $2 more then used DVDs. Unless Blu-Ray retails for the same price I think Sony will lose this one with in a year. People are going to be more willing to switch to HD-DVD when its only a couple bucks more then DVD.

http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?sortby=default&searchtype=quicksearch&searchcount=12&Keyword=&platform=36&find.x=32&find.y=9&find=Search
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2006, 07:34:56 AM »
But Gamestop can charge whatever it wants for used movies, the original price has nothing to do with it.  Well, it has a little to do with it because if Gamestop wants to have a large stock of used movies, it needs to offer an attractive price to would-be sellers, but unless Bluray is way more expensive, it will be the retailer's choice what a used movie should sell for.

Comparisons between PSP and PS3 are interesting, and I'm sure a lot of people are making those comparisons, but don't forget that PSP was entering a brand-new market, one that Playstation players weren't necessarily interested in.  Also, I haven't heard reliable hardware sales numbers for North America or Europe for the handhelds.  DS is slaughtering PSP in Japan, but what about everywhere else?
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2006, 09:00:07 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey Comparisons between PSP and PS3 are interesting, and I'm sure a lot of people are making those comparisons, but don't forget that PSP was entering a brand-new market, one that Playstation players weren't necessarily interested in.  Also, I haven't heard reliable hardware sales numbers for North America or Europe for the handhelds.  DS is slaughtering PSP in Japan, but what about everywhere else?


The key message in the comparison is that Sony isn't invincible. Many people assumed that, since Sony was entering the handheld market, Nintendo was doomed and was about to have their cash cow stolen from the barn. That proved to be entirely not the case.

As for reliable numbers, I believe only Sony knows that, as I don't think Sony has ever said "We've SOLD _____ PSPs." but instead used the elusive sidestep of "We've SHIPPED ______ PSPs." refusing to cite exact sales numbers.

Even Nintendo, at their press conference, could only say that the DS has sold "millions more" than the PSP because Sony is trying hard to cover their failure by not releasing any sales figures.

I fully expect this hoopla with the PS3. Sony is the company who invented a critic to give rave reviews to their crappy movies. I completely expect that they'll doctor their shipping records in an attempt to improve sales figures so that developers will feel more confident in creating games for the console.

When games like Death Jr. (which everyone was calling the PSP's "killer app" before it tanked) are being ported to the DS and GTA:LCS is being ported to the PS2, then software sales are clearly so terrible that I question if the estimated 10 million PSPs shipped is actually true at all.

Every failure of the PSP can be seen clear as day in the PS3's current plans: horrible price, terrible launch, no promise of long term software aside from a select few games, too damn big, focuses too heavily on features OTHER than gaming, attempts to push a new media format for movies and its competition is cheaper and has innovation and a better gaming library on its side.

I don't think the Sony brand name is going to push this console out into the world. If the price was $300, then I'm sure people would buy it just because it's a PS3, but with a $500 price tag, I suspect most people will stop and check to see what games the console offers before they drop the cash for it. Not only that, but they'll take a good, hard look at the competition and given that the 360 has many, MANY games in common and the Wii is, well, the Wii, they'll likely buy one or both instead of a PS3.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline Gamebasher

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2006, 10:54:38 AM »
Smash_Brother:

THANKS for your excellent topic on Sony´s obvious flaws and near total lack of appeal!

I couldn´t have put it better myself. It is GREAT to see a topic which so well hammers Sony down where they belong. They never deserved the topspot in the industry anyway, but it is only now where Nintendo finally deliver the long-awaited hardware and software hammerblow, which we all knew they were capable of, that the contrast between them and Sony stands out so clearly. May Nintendo soon claim the topspot for eternity, so that the industry will be full of creativity and progress benefitting all both young and old who love to play games.

Here´s a small poem:

It takes a great amount to create something perfect
But it takes only a small amount to make something imperfect
It´s all in the amount of love and dedication, or lack of same, put into what is created
The one who invests much effort and passion into his endeavour all of the time creates great things overall
The one who invests little effort and has little passion into his endeavour creates insignificant things overall
For lack of anything great, the insignificant may be chosen for a while
And in order to maintain his hold on his position, he will carry on as usual
But when the great one returns, the insignificant one will be deselected
For now he is seen as just that: insignificant in the comparison
Only one remains great all the time: the one who practises ceaslessly, learning from mistakes faster than any other.
Eliminating faster than less productive counterparts the flaws inherent in all learning beings, making his triumphant and unstoppable re-entry into leadership



   
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2006, 01:35:08 PM »
I agree in that I think Sony's success was a partially a fluke and partially because of 3rd parties' frustration with Nintendo.

It was a fluke because GTA came along at just the right time to REALLY push the PS2 into the market.

It was frustration because, when it came time to choose between Sony and Nintendo support, I don't think 3rd parties would have left Nintendo so easily if Yamauchi had been more of a diplomat.

However, now that Nintendo has gone into FULL diplomacy mode, there's nothing stopping them from earning tons of 3rd party support and the DS proves this in full.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2006, 02:00:42 PM »
"They never deserved the topspot in the industry anyway"

I'd say they deserved it, by default if anything.  Nintendo sure as hell didn't deserve to continue being market leader with the N64 and Sega didn't deserve it either with the Saturn.  I don't think Sony really did anything exceptional but the Playstation was at the very least competant while the competing consoles were serverly flawed in such a way that neither of them suited the needs of consumers or developers.  It was largely a fluke victory as they were merely doing things correctly while everyone else f*cked up.  So they still deserved it since they won their position by providing a better product.

The PS2 however was a total coastjob and they just got by on reputation.  Not that they were particularly bad but they didn't address any of their own problems (faulty hardware) and misused their power a bit (no 2D game restrictions).  Based on effort and pleasing their customers I would say the MS deserved to win last gen but didn't because the PS2 was just too big and Japan doesn't like American games.

Offline Gamebasher

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RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2006, 04:31:43 PM »
Iansane,

by saying they didn´t deserve the topspot, I meant that on the basis of what games they had on their platform, the level of gaming perfection in them and the value to the gamers who played them VS what was found on Sony´s platform (rubbish in my view). I know that this is very much a matter of personal taste, but if you look at all the prizes Nintendo has received from all kinds of places applauding, rewarding, worshipping and what not them for their excellent games, it certainly says a thing or two about who is the very best in terms of sheer gamesquality. So strictly platforming-wise, I maintain that Nintendo deserved the topspot anyway, because despite Yamauchi´s lack of diplomacy and following consequences Nintendo remained unbeatable in terms of dedication to games and perfected games as a result.  I´d say that earned them the topspot, which they didn´t get because there wasn´t enough of them (games) in those days.

But, now where they are about to become far more popular than at any time since the NES and SNES days, it is clear that they are the best in terms of gaming innovation and perfection. Just looking at The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess makes me once again say to myself what they say themselves about themselves: nobody can make games like Nintendo can!
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!

RE:My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2006, 04:44:05 PM »
GameBasher, I agree. No words can describe how Nintendo effected me. But, an example, look at All their mascots: Link, Samus, Mario,Donkey Kong, and thats not all. These guys made nintendo, and everyone loves the games with them in it, because theyre so dang good, and with all the support they are getting, great priced systems and games, innovation, great mascots, amazing sales in Japan: They are going to win this Gen.



 
We will rise from the litter boxes, and send humans into the doghouses.          BEWARE!!!!! ....                                    Muah ha ha!!!!

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: My Sony Rant, Consolidated
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2006, 06:32:43 PM »
I agree with Ian and Basher, actually.

I agree with Ian that it was problems with Nintendo and Sega which allowed Sony to take the lead. You have to admit it: at the end of the SNES era, Nintendo had a HUGE ego.

On the other hand, I KNOW Sony didn't deserve it. All they did was drop into the market, money hat the necessary developers and temp others away with the offer of more storage space and to be free of Yamauchi. I think that if Yamauchi hadn't been such a prick to 3rd parties, they wouldn't have been so quick to leave Nintendo for Sony.

In the end, it was Nintendo who beat themselves.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64