Topic: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Mesu]

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Originally posted by: JGarcia050
3 new characters revealed

I almost posted that this afternoon, but it seemed familar somehow.

I don't get why nintendojo would post the same rumor twice several months apart. They didn't use the word rumor this time either. I hope it's not real still. That would be like saying Mr. Game and Watch and Ice Climbers were mistakes in the first game.

[Spak-Spang]

Wow.  I know this thread has been recycling ideas, questions, but I thought the above rumor was dead.

There is so much information and misinformation about Brawl it is funny.  

The simple truth of the matter is, we don't know anything about the game except the characters already announced in the game, and that they are looking at preserving the classic controls with the Gamecube Controller, and looking at Wii controls as well...and Nintendo is looking to include online functionality in the game in some form.

In a way, that is what makes this thread fun and exciting is the speculation, the debate and the questions...but all those things make the thread annoying as well, because we have to deal with misinformation and stupid rumors.

Though commenting on the silly Cell Shaded Young Link Rumor for a second.

I personally would love the idea of having two vastly different Link's in the game.  Each Link would use Sword attacks, but would have different items for special moves...and play vastly different.  For example.

Young Link (Cell Shaded to help visually seperate the two Links)

Special Moves:

Up B:  Leaf Float in Air, and Leaf Blast On Ground Pushing people away.
B: Spin attack on the ground...can be charged to do his crazy spin.
Down B: Evade and attack
Left/Right B: Boomerang (temporarily stuns opponents)

This makes young Link a more defensive player, and that works well with his speed and less attack power.  When Young Link has 0% damage he can also shoot beams out of his sword full screen.  

Link:

UP B:  Flying Sword Spin as usual
B:  Bow and Arrow, Charge for distance/power half charge is fire arrow, full charge is Bomb Arrow.  
Down B: Bombs You can throw.  
Side B: Shield (Mirror) Reflect which would allow you to block attacks and even direct them another direction.

Link is more powerful with longer reach, stronger attacks and overall powerhouse for the game.  He is much more capable than he was younger, so relies less on Speed or defense.  He is much more offensive in design.

[Smash_Brother]

TP Link transforms into a wolf and Midna shows up on his back.

Count on it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

DK transforms into Zangief from Street Fighter 2.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
TP Link transforms into a wolf and Midna shows up on his back.

Count on it.

You mean creating a two character combo like Zelda in Melee?

But wouldn't that slow down gameplay? I mean, the player would have to hit a button in order to summon Midna and ask her to transform you into a wolf.

That would kill the fast paced matches right there...

[Koekoenutt]

Some of my close friends that I play Smash Brothers Melee with have been saying they want Wolf Link and Midna in it, but I would have to disagree. I really don't think the gameplay mechanics of Smash Brothers would really incorporate that character combo in to smoothly. Then again, some of the new characters in Melee from the original, I never thought could have been transformed into the game. I just think the shape of the wolf Link and Midna, and most move sets would work for them in the game. As much as I love the character Midna, I really hope this is one of the characters that doesn't make it into the game. When I look back at every Nintendo made game, I find a lot of characters that haven't been touched by Smash Brothers that deserve it more than that character layout. Granted, It is the Zelda for Wii and this will be the Smash Brothers for the Wii, and would fit in that respect.. but I would like to see some other characters get their light. I am perfectly fine with two different Links, even if they change Young Link into WW Link, which I actually think would suit more than Young Link. Especially how Phantom Hourglass uses the cel-shaded link.  

[Smash_Brother]

It would be identical to how Zelda transforms into Shiek and about as quick. Down + B and Midna pops out of his shadow.

I'm not suggesting they use an Ice Climbers-esque setup for them, Midna wouldn't provide any additional moves beyond what she did in the game.

[Koekoenutt]

Oh, I wasn't doubting how he would be transformed. I just think the general shape of Link as a wolf with Midna wouldn't realy fit in or look right in the game. I also don't think there would be enough moves for them together that would really balance itself out into SSBB. Like I mentioned, there were characters that I didn't really think would have made it into Melee, and they still came out great... and a lot of people tend to disagree with me on wolf Link/Midna, so I can easily be mistaken. I just think it would almost be out of placed to put them into the game is all, compared to other characters that I think would fit better for the game. I guess my examples would be the hitboxes for when he is in wolf form, since he is longer/wider and short and midna is just kinda stubby on his back in the middle. As for moves, when Midna does that circular aura for a multiple attack in Zelda:TP, I can see that being a Down-B/A move or something of the kind that attacks all around you, but the graphics and animation for this I think would be kind of broken. Compared to how the animations and everything is done for the other characters, I think they would have a harder time doing this character.  

[Luigi Dude]

If there's going to be any transforming Zelda characters it should be a Ganondorf/Ganon combo.  Of course we've already discussed Ganon last summer so I wont go into to much detail except

-Ganon must have his Link to the Past design (I've always hated the way he looked in Ocarina of Time and I hate his Twilight Princess wild boar design as well)

- Needs to be holding one badass trident

- FIREBATS, LOTS OF MUTHAF*CKING FIREBATS!!!

[Chris1]

If Link transforms in front of the other characters, it would scare someone!  You don't want to do that, do you?

[Requiem]

I agree with the person who doesn't think Wolf Link would fit well.

He's too long. It would be weird having such a long character.

[Nephilim]

I think a cooler idea would be a secondary smash item move, much like jump stars

Turns into a wolf and just jumps around, attacking the area and whoever is in it (whole z lockon attack)

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: Chris1
If Link transforms in front of the other characters, it would scare someone!  You don't want to do that, do you?

Well, Zelda would transform into Sheik in front of everybody and nobody seemed to care...Although that does paint a funny pic in my head!

[Spak-Spang]

I don't like the wolf idea at all...I think Wolf Link was interesting in Twilight Princess, but is not worthy of inclusion in Brawl, and in fact would be quite boring.

A nice level dedicated to Twilight Princess the game would be interesting...and even the possibility of having a Twilight invade the level changing every character into a different animal.  

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I don't like the wolf idea at all...I think Wolf Link was interesting in Twilight Princess, but is not worthy of inclusion in Brawl, and in fact would be quite boring.

A nice level dedicated to Twilight Princess the game would be interesting...and even the possibility of having a Twilight invade the level changing every character into a different animal.

Boring?!?

Wolf Link was awesome!

Wolf Link WILL be included in Brawl somehow. If the Brawl developers are following the TP storyline closely they will somehow implement Midna and Wolf Link one way or another, whether he is a special attack or another character altogether.

[KDR_11k]

I don't think Link needs the mode switch (if we looked hard enough we could find a second mode for EVERY character but that would be silly), a second character would be acceptable though I think Midna alone would work better.

[Bill Aurion]

But Midna never acted alone... =|

Wolf Link/Midna would be an excellent character pairing!

[KDR_11k]

Did Zelda ever act alone?

[Mesu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang


Young Link (Cell Shaded to help visually seperate the two Links)

Special Moves:

Up B:  Leaf Float in Air, and Leaf Blast On Ground Pushing people away.
B: Spin attack on the ground...can be charged to do his crazy spin.
Down B: Evade and attack
Left/Right B: Boomerang (temporarily stuns opponents)

This makes young Link a more defensive player, and that works well with his speed and less attack power.  When Young Link has 0% damage he can also shoot beams out of his sword full screen.  

Link:

UP B:  Flying Sword Spin as usual
B:  Bow and Arrow, Charge for distance/power half charge is fire arrow, full charge is Bomb Arrow.  
Down B: Bombs You can throw.  
Side B: Shield (Mirror) Reflect which would allow you to block attacks and even direct them another direction.

Link is more powerful with longer reach, stronger attacks and overall powerhouse for the game.  He is much more capable than he was younger, so relies less on Speed or defense.  He is much more offensive in design.

This is a great moveset, except...

I would give link this his boomerang and expand his bow and arrow aiming capabilities.

I know the point of taking away the boomerang was to make them more unique but link needs it to be effective and the shield reflect would end up like mewtwos deflector(not very good unless it could be used as a falling grab but it doesn't sound like it could). The problem with it is it wouldn't give your opponet any incentive to stop laser spamming the way fox and nesses down b does.

I hope they improve links arrows so that he can shoot them in any direction. It should be like it is now(hold b and release) except the arrows shoot in the direction the analog is tilting at the time of release(if the analog isn't tilted at all the arrow goes straight). This would give link 8 possible shooting directions in air(up, up/left, up/right, right, left, down/left, down/right, down) and 5 on ground.

Also they need to improve Mario so he can fly if he runs for 20 feet and then jumps. From flight he should be able to divebomb opponets like in mario world.

[Spak-Spang]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mesu

This is a great moveset, except...

I would give link this his boomerang and expand his bow and arrow aiming capabilities.

I know the point of taking away the boomerang was to make them more unique but link needs it to be effective and the shield reflect would end up like mewtwos deflector(not very good unless it could be used as a falling grab but it doesn't sound like it could). The problem with it is it wouldn't give your opponet any incentive to stop laser spamming the way fox and nesses down b does.

I hope they improve links arrows so that he can shoot them in any direction. It should be like it is now(hold b and release) except the arrows shoot in the direction the analog is tilting at the time of release(if the analog isn't tilted at all the arrow goes straight). This would give link 8 possible shooting directions in air(up, up/left, up/right, right, left, down/left, down/right, down) and 5 on ground.

Also they need to improve Mario so he can fly if he runs for 20 feet and then jumps. From flight he should be able to divebomb opponets like in mario world.

I do not mind expanding the Bow and Arrow functions to being able to Aim.  Though I already expanded it to allow Adult Link to actually charge his Shots include Fire Arrows and Bomb Arrows.

I think a half screen arrow projectile for adult Link that can travel full screen but with an arc when angled would be fine.

As I said, I want the characters to feel different...and the Boomerang isn't essential to have for both Links.  

Also the Mirror Shield would be incredibly useful.  And be better balance in the game.  

1)The Shield would block and reflect attacks and you could actually adjust the angle of the reflection to give a straight forward attack, or angled up/down...it could add tons of strategy to Link's character.  Even give the projectile a stronger damage after reflection.

2)It means that the shield doesn't auto absorb projectiles like it did in Melee which I thought was bad balance.  

As for Young Link, I love the idea of bringing the Boomerang as a more powerful and scary weapon.  Giving it a short stun mechanic would allow for Young Link to use it retreat, plan an attack or even set someone up to be attacked from behind by another player.  The options are endless...but Young Link would sacrifice not having the longer projectiles in the form of Arrows.  

I don't want subtle differences between characters, I want drastic differences so they don't feel like clones.  I always felt Luigi needs to be the character from Luigi's Mansion so that we don't have two Marios (and I know Luigi has that ONE move that is different, and changes to how his other specials react, but I want more.)  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

EVERYONE, STOP THINKING

[Luigi Dude]

We can't, we NEED Smash Bros.  It's a religion for alot of us that will never be stopped.  I go to the park every night and sacrifice 10 joggers to the great Master Hand.  He then comes down from the sky and touches me with his fingers of truth to fill me with light.

[Mesu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang

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I do not mind expanding the Bow and Arrow functions to being able to Aim.  Though I already expanded it to allow Adult Link to actually charge his Shots include Fire Arrows and Bomb Arrows.

I think a half screen arrow projectile for adult Link that can travel full screen but with an arc when angled would be fine.

As I said, I want the characters to feel different...and the Boomerang isn't essential to have for both Links.  

The reason I think Link needs the boomerang is his up air attack covers is a smaller area and is might be vunerable to diagonal attacks from above. Also as a slower character, range is very important, problaby the most important counter for mobility(bowser could be made into the best in the game without making him any faster if they just gave him more range). I wouldn't want them to change his up air because that one of the moves that makes link great.

To me Link is the best designed character in meelee because every strength is also a weakness(the hookshot is very useful but if you miss there's much more consequences) so you need to think to thrive with link and also to defeat him. His arrows is meelee though need to improve have more opportunities to actually hit someone fully charged.

The mirror shield sounds much better after reading that, but without a substitute useful range attack it will make link worse.

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang

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I don't want subtle differences between characters, I want drastic differences so they don't feel like clones.  I always felt Luigi needs to be the character from Luigi's Mansion so that we don't have two Marios (and I know Luigi has that ONE move that is different, and changes to how his other specials react, but I want more.)

Luigi is my main character and I wouldn't mind luigi getting a vacume(that would make air to ground approach much more dangerous if it worked like kirbys B move(not the stealing power part just the absorb)), but I hope all his air moves + the downsmash + the backthrow stay. The problem with no clones is sometimes 2 players enjoy the same movesets but don't want to have to pick the same character(this happens alot with my family members).  

[IceCold]

This is what Kojima had to say about Smash Bros recently..

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...Hideo Kojima took centre-stage and also managed to get a quick game of Wii Smash Bros in with the designer.

Speaking in a recent podcast Kojima is quoted as saying that the Wii bruiser feels "very complete", "a lot of fun" and claims that it could be released tomorrow, selling millions if Nintendo desired to be so radical (we're not holding our breath).

The two also locked horns in a Smash Bros. Brawl one-on-one, Sakurai as Mario and Kojima as Snake (naturally). According to the MGS creator he went easy on Mario and was unable to chin the friendly-looking plumber, but we reckon he was just rubbish.

[King of Twitch]

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a nearly finished SSB [at TGS]

Good call