Author Topic: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It  (Read 29787 times)

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Offline Requiem

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2006, 08:02:08 PM »
Hahaha....


hahahahaahaha...

I'm not laughing at you....really, I'm not. I just had the funniest image pop into my head from your description!

Thank you for that
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I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

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Offline The Omen

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2006, 10:41:28 PM »
Quote

Sorry, I felt that it was worth posting as its own thread, but there may be a point of disagreement there.


You did fine.  The problem is Bill Has never had ONE negative thing to say about Nintendo since this site has existed.  (prove me wrong!) What he sees as complaining is much more of venting, and discussing, two past times even the most level headed, ardent Nintendo fan would normally embrace.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2006, 11:26:31 PM »
But... me not liking the name... you know that was a trick... didn't you? I am defending it against its detractors... didn't anyone... listen?

/cry

~Carmine M. Red
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
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Offline denjet78

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2006, 01:38:08 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
That's why I don't think someone who merely views it as a "gamer" can appreciate it. The Wii believes that people merely shouldn't be "gamers," they can be people who play, who seek out fun and inventiveness. We should be ever-growing and ever-changing and, one would hope, ever-playing with new ideas, experiences, concepts and interactions. Gaming isn't boxes and stations and cubes, those are physical things. Gaming is experience and sensation and innovation, it is a universal experience, something that can't and shouldn't be defined so harshly and resolutely.


I...

I think I love you.

This is exactly the point that I've been trying to get across to everyone since I first realized it a few days ago. Wii is not a console for gamers, it is a console for everyone. And I do believe that this deserves a post all it's own for as many times as I have posted this exact same concept, though I don't think I could have done it with the flare that you have done here, not once did anyone ever pick up on it. Instead, what few responses that I did receive, were all akin to: "I don't care. The name still sucks."

Comprehension is a dying art.

Offline eljefe

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2006, 01:08:33 PM »
comprehension IS a dying art

excellently written

could stand alone as an editorial in a newspaper / gaming site

..:    I just noticed WTF is FTW backwords. Sometimes when you think things are going bad, they suddenly turn around. Much like this thread. For the win.  :.   MJRx9000

Offline zakkiel

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2006, 02:19:34 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Sorry, I felt that it was worth posting as its own thread, but there may be a point of disagreement there.

Oh, and Zekkiel, Revolution isn't as revolutionary as Wii in my opinion. If it was named Revolution, I assure you that I could not write that above piece in the manner in which it was written.

And, and just to be clear. I am pro on this name. I am, however, con on evaluating it as a simple "double-u followed by two "eyes."

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


My point was actually that names are not revolutionary. This is why there is no Nobel prize in naming. The point of of a product name is to make it easier to sell. That's it. If you can convince me that of all the names Nintendo might have chosen the Wii best fits this bill, I will reconcile myself to it. Heck, if you can convince me that of all the names Nintendo might have chosen this is not the very worst for selling the console, excluding slang, obscenity, and body parts and functions, then I might come around.
Defenestration - the only humane method of execution.

Offline Kairon

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2006, 02:21:46 PM »
So I take it that what I wrote didn't convince you. May I ask why?

~Carmine M. Red
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline zakkiel

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2006, 04:36:50 PM »
I did find various elements of your argument unconvincing, but mostly you didn't speak at all to the sales issue. Instead, you say things like

Quote

In that respect, my hat is definitely in the pro crowd. I like its difference, I like its humor, I like its versatility. I like its playfulness and I like its diminutiveness.
This is a litany of qualities you find attractive. It speaks to the target market not at all. You assume that non-games will perceive these qualities as you do. But more likely they will see infantilism where you see humor, a complete lack of input from English speakers where you see versatility, and awkwardness where you see playfulness. And by awkwardness I do not mean the urine references that have others so exercised, I mean simply this: the word "Wii" as a noun just will not roll off an English-speaking tongue, especially since it has a long vowel which doesn't exist in the English language. The other product names so commonly enlisted in defense of Nintendo's choice sound like they belong in English. If you put "Wii" in a poem and scanned it, you would find it practically demands a ceasura.

They'll probably agree on the diminutiveness, though.
Defenestration - the only humane method of execution.

Offline Kairon

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2006, 06:13:45 PM »
But Zakkiel, these are all points where you are assuming negative reactions will take place, and that they will remain long after they have investigated the experience further. That is why I write:

Quote

So we shouldn't be surprised when people are stunned or challenged by the name. They're just being asked a question they've never been asked before: What am I? They're being put in the position to define, not be dictated to. They're being put in the position to experience, not merely view. And whether that results in Wii-jokes, or exclamation, or curiousity, or resoluteness, or even puzzled introspection, these things are all just different ways that people undertake discovery.


I mean to show that these things aren't negative at all. These reactions are occuring because the viewer is given a chance to discover an entirely new experience.

"Wii? What is that? Doesn't that sound like...? Doesn't that mean...? Let me try it out... I gotta tell my buddies at the watercooler!"

To criticize it as otherwise is to paint people as beings without curiousity, as creatures always on the prowl to destroy, and as destructive individuals who won't even take a moment to look at what this strange new thing is which causes people to laugh and wave their arms about. These are one-dimensional entities lacking merit and imagination, faith and excitement.

You talk of infantilism, but that's a word deliberately chosen when cuteness is more accessible. You mention a lack of input where uniqueness and unconventionality are instead the necessary risks when you dare to do more than reformulate.  And you talk of awkwardness...

How can it be labelled awkward when the english language is the most bastardized, rule-breaking, irksome, rebellious, mutable, exciting language on the planet? How can it be awkward when feng shui isn't pronounced how it's spelled at all, yet it's a trend? When middle-america celebrity-watchers put Cruz after Penelope and instantly know how to pronounce it? When "Inagatadavita" is the song my friend always selects when we're doing karaoke? When "supercalifrajilistic expialidocious" was given to adults and children alike without any hint as to how its spelled, and then won an Oscar award? When no one needed to know that edelweiss was a flower when they heard it in "The Sound of Music"? And where no one in my high school social studies class was offput for long upon discovering Djibouti?

This is an awkwardness which, like the infantilism and the perception of recklessness, like the one dimensional beings that lack any inner light of curiousity or whimsy... This is an awkwardness which only exists because the future, and our potential, our whimsy and lightness and creativity and ability to laugh, is being discarded so readily and immediately.

I will address the sales issue now, since you wish me to. I urge you not to believe in a world of dark one-dimensional creatures. I urge you not to trap our experiences and emotions and desires in boxes and compartments. I urge you, I entreat you, to believe in a world where we can be curious, where we can laugh, where we can adapt to new things and grow to love them, and where this inclusiveness, this openness is celebrated, not buried underneath pessimism and distrust.

I urge you to do this because with regards to sales... it will not matter an ounce how many sales at all the Wii makes if such a world does not exist. And if we do not believe that such a world CAN ever exist, if we do not believe that people can be curious and level-headed instead of snide and malicious, that humans have a capacity for experience such that new things will not send us running in fear only to return with torches and pitchforks and blindness and anger...

If we end up believing that that a world with more in it is not even at all possible, then the issue of the Wii's success is moot, for play would soon cease to have meaning, gaming would lose its appeal, and fun - that inexact property that Nintendo tries to capture and share - fun would be a cruel joke on a pitiful existence.

Yet you ask me again about sales.

Screw the world, screw the people, screw every notion of right or wrong or good or bad or just or wise. Will the Wii sell? Will it succeed? Will it give me the userbase that I want for my own satisfaction, without regard for anyone else's?

I think the only way to answer your question is to ask you one of my own. Will you buy the Wii? Because every customer will be asked that same exact question. And if you buy the system, and you think that the world isn't such a terrible place, that there's some real value in your purchase, and that others in the same exact situation would do the exact same thing, odds are that you will find satisfaction more often than not.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

P.S. That was fun!  
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline zakkiel

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2006, 12:15:11 PM »
Quote

To criticize it as otherwise is to paint people as beings without curiousity, as creatures always on the prowl to destroy, and as destructive individuals who won't even take a moment to look at what this strange new thing is which causes people to laugh and wave their arms about. These are one-dimensional entities lacking merit and imagination, faith and excitement.
I find after reading this passage I cannot take any part of your post seriously. Sorry.  
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Offline Kairon

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2006, 12:20:33 PM »
I'm sorry, but you're discounting people's abilities to be curious instead of destructive, and inspired instead of afraid.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline The Omen

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2006, 01:02:14 PM »
this thread has officially crossed over to 'wtf?'.  
"If a man comes to the door of poetry untouched by the madness of the muses, believing that technique alone will make him a great poet, he and his sane compositions never reach perfection, but are utterly eclipsed by the inspired madman." Socrates

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2006, 05:06:56 PM »
Not sure about this thread turning into "wtf" but has degraded into excess verbage by some of the posters. Come on people, it is possible to have a good argument without trying to mask it with attempts at looking like an intellectual. Like I always say "Keep it simple stupid" .
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Offline Kairon

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2006, 05:13:15 PM »
Well, the problem is this:

How do you convince someone that pessimism without attention to optimism is just a distorted view of the world, and that people have as many good aspects about them that are just waiting to be awakened as they do have bad ones?

Any, I like going all verbage! It's fun!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2006, 05:15:13 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Well, the problem is this:

How do you convince someone that pessimism without attention to optimism is just a distorted view of the world, and that people have as many good aspects about them that are just waiting to be awakened as they do have bad ones?

Any, I like going all verbage! It's fun!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


Well I guess if you really like it, then you can still do it :-P.
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Offline zakkiel

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2006, 05:45:06 PM »
Quote

How do you convince someone that pessimism without attention to optimism is just a distorted view of the world, and that people have as many good aspects about them that are just waiting to be awakened as they do have bad ones?
You know, before I thought you were just positing the most ridiculous straw man I've ever encountered, but now I realize you really, truly believe that a negative attitude towards a console name represents a complete abhorrence of all humanity. This demonstrates two things. First, the reification of your own emotional response to a monosyllable such that anyone who does not share it must possess a set of beliefs bordering on psychosis. Second, the complete lack of what psychologists call modulation and proportion, a symptom characteristic of cult members and schizophrenics.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2006, 06:07:13 PM »
There is true belief in what I wrote Zakkiel, but it isn't in deifying the name, nor is it in trying to connect vapidity with caution in a moral manner.

Instead, I want to illustrate how one-sided and without attention to other aspects of human character it is to pessimistically view people's reactions to the name instead of allowing for the virtues that I attribute to it. You say that people will find it awkward, yet I've gone from feng shui to Mary Poppins to demonstrate otherwise. Why disregard the whole positive side of the argument?

Indeed, people have claimed again and again of the negative reactions people will have to the name, yet the tests posted on this here board bear out nothing more than neutral confusion. What real reason do we have to assume negative reactions when the positives are just as much a real possibility?

This isn't a talk about the name, after all. It's a talk about how we believe people will react to it. Will they sneer at it, forget it, or even ridicule it? Or will they be surprised by it, be driven to investigate, and be entertained?

All that verbage beforehand was merely my attempt to make a case for believing the latter, as opposed to assuming the former.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Requiem

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2006, 06:12:59 PM »
*Yawn*
"Hey....

I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

Qoute of the Summer

Offline denjet78

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2006, 12:53:31 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
There is true belief in what I wrote Zakkiel, but it isn't in deifying the name, nor is it in trying to connect vapidity with caution in a moral manner.

Instead, I want to illustrate how one-sided and without attention to other aspects of human character it is to pessimistically view people's reactions to the name instead of allowing for the virtues that I attribute to it. You say that people will find it awkward, yet I've gone from feng shui to Mary Poppins to demonstrate otherwise. Why disregard the whole positive side of the argument?

Indeed, people have claimed again and again of the negative reactions people will have to the name, yet the tests posted on this here board bear out nothing more than neutral confusion. What real reason do we have to assume negative reactions when the positives are just as much a real possibility?

This isn't a talk about the name, after all. It's a talk about how we believe people will react to it. Will they sneer at it, forget it, or even ridicule it? Or will they be surprised by it, be driven to investigate, and be entertained?

All that verbage beforehand was merely my attempt to make a case for believing the latter, as opposed to assuming the former.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


I think the problem that you're running into is that you're trying to have a deep conversation with people who play video games on a video games forum. Not that your topic at hand isn't significant, I think it's very important for everyone to examine themselves and recognize the boundries of their own perceptions so that they can realize that perception is relative and that possibility is endless for the mind that seeks it out.

I've asked people myself why they hate the name and they give me this argument or that argument. Do they really believe them? I don't know. It seems too likely that they heard someone elses explination for not liking the name and adopted it as their own, and that person in turn looked for the simplest explination in the first place. Why? So they don't have to look into themselves for the real reason why they don't like it. Because they're afraid that what they're looking for is going to make them appear to themselves like others that they may have belittled in the past. There's almost a sense of superiority in most Nintendo gamers and to put it quite bluntly, they are anything but.

Nintendo gamers are better than other gamers. Lies. Am I guilty of believing this though? Yes. As I look down on a market filled with uninspired sequals, blood, and gore I like to think of the games that I enjoy as being more evolved. Are they really? No. They're still video games. I may achieve a different level of enjoyment but in the end we all play them for one reason:  To have fun. And if you're not having fun, why the hell are you playing video games at all? Find something that you like and get to it.

Nintendo gamers are not as shallow as other gamers. Again, lies. What more proof do you need than the outrageous explosions of hatred generated by the revealing of Wind Waker? Much like the recent announcement of the "Wii" name these forums were flooded by screams of protest. Demands were made. Prophetic vows of doom abounded. comic books were started. Some even went so far as to say that they were never going to buy another Nintendo product as long as they lived. And where had this hatred sprung from? The "look" of a game? The most superficial aspect had suddenly become the most important. Anyone... ANYONE, can become a "graphics whore". I've even been one myself, on more than one occasion.

My point is, you're not right. None of us are right. We all have our opinions yes, but how many of us actually take the time to "think" about them? Where they come from? Why we believe them? Why do so many people have such a feverent need to silence others simply to make their own ideals seem better? Is it because they fear the pointless and finality of existence? Or is it because they feel that they are better than others, whether or not they are willing or even able to admit that to themselves?

No one likes to talk anymore. No one likes to think anymore. If it doesn't come in bite sized chunks with cutting edge special effects people just can't be bothered to pay attention. But I guess that's why something like a name can take center stage when we're about to see the arrival of the next evolution of game play.

Offline Kairon

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2007, 11:57:03 PM »
This thread was fun to peruse again! Actually... I forgot what thread I was looking for now that I've found this...

Oh, and I guess that the "sales issue" has been answered now that we've waited to see how things have played out, huh?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
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Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2007, 05:49:14 AM »
Its just nice to revisit this thread and release we were all pretty silly in our arguments both ways.

The truth is Nintendo did spend tons of money on its marketing and desire to create a new name.  It was a gamble, but it worked.  And now nobody questions the name...in fact it has become hip.  


Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2007, 05:54:41 AM »
Wii supporters won...
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2007, 06:19:13 AM »
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Offline Ceric

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RE: The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2007, 06:54:41 AM »
I didn't realize I totally missed this thread when it was original posted.
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Offline mantidor

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RE:The Name Wii: Why I Don't Like It
« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2007, 08:21:11 AM »
I think its obvious the console would have sold just as well without the hideous name anyway.

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