Author Topic: IGN Promises Rev Specs: Evening 3/29/06  (Read 96893 times)

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Offline wandering

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2006, 09:39:04 PM »
Personally, these specs mean nothing to me except that I'll be hearing a lot of annoying 'rev is less powerful than the xbox' comments. We know the rev will probably be about twice as powerful as the cube. We know alot of the hardware decisions for the other two consoles were probably made for marketing rather than practical considerations. We know the cube compared well to the competition in spite of extremely underwhelming specs. So, how can comparisons between leaked rev specs and the specs of other consoles be considered in any way valid?

Call me when we have actual screenshots.

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the Rev will be known NOT for games that support worlds with hundreds of thousands of characters at once, but for games based on essential and innovative gameplay.

Eh, I think you may be surprised. This is the same company that made Zelda and Pikmin, remember. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if just the opposite happened: the rev becoming known for epic games, while the competition becoming known for games filled with bloated HD and special effects.

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I know, Nintendo have been trying as hard as they can to keep these silly numbers out of the equation, yet Matt a 'supposed' Nintendo fan leaks all this crap all over the web. What were his intentions?

....um, to get more viewers to the site. It's kind of hard to blame him - he's a reporter, not a Nintendo PR spokesperson. Though comparing rev's specs to the original xbox's was a bit much.  
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2006, 09:40:30 PM »
Let's just all calm down, if I recall the GC was pretty easy to develop for and it was outpowered by both consoles on paper, with similar chipsets it may be a breeze to develop great looking games for the system at launch. My guess is that within a year though XBox 360 and PS3 will surpass it. WIth that said the RAM does bother me, but I do doubt (Perhaps I'm being overly hopeful) that NIntendo would do something that would be so restricting. Finally I do still want to see what the ATI chipset can do, it may work quite well with Rev and the visual quality will be top notch on 480i. To Ian, I doubt this is just an Xbox with a remote, if you read the article they stated how GC managed to top Xbox in alot of areas graphically. My guess is that the Rev will have about 1/2-3/4th the graphical abilities (not stats) of Xbox 360.
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Offline wandering

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2006, 09:47:47 PM »
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unless they get out a quick press release to flat out deny this.

I'm sure we'll get a press release. One that's carefully worded to suggest A) the rev is rather more powerful than current gen systems (more powerful than xbox, in other words B) the lower specs only affect HD C) HD isn't supported because most people don't have it, it's too expensive, and because HD causes slower framerates, overheating, and herpes.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2006, 10:21:22 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
I'm going to be pissed if it's an April fools joke cause it's too early and too sensitive of a subject to be messing around with.
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario

Matt is apparently refusing to answer the claims of April Fools on the IGN message boards.

Also x 2, even if these random numbers are actually true, i'll believe Iwata over IGN. "Specs really don't matter"

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Originally posted by: Artimus
It's not April fools, it's only March 29, it'd make no sense.

So how about them Bronkos?
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
It's not even April yet.

Nemo & Artimus: Actually, now is the perfect time to start an Internet April Fools Joke, you need time for the news to spread and the anticipation to build. They can't start the rumor on the 1st and then say it is a joke on the 1st, most people would have missed the whole build-up and only seen the end result, and that is no fun . Besided April 1st is on a Saturday, they don't normally update on a friday.

Mario: If the numbers i saw were done correctly then the Rev numbers are exactly 1.5x GC for the CPU & GPU making for a GC 1.5

-<GC>-x(math)=-<Rev>-
162mhz x 1.5 = 243mhz
485mhz x 1.5 = 729mhz

This has got to be a joke, there is no way that the CPU will not hit at least 1.3ghz or 3x GC #'s.
A 1 ghz chip is sooo cheap, it just wouldn't make sense to go slower than that.
And the fact that Matt won't respond to questions about an april fools joke only strengthens my argument.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2006, 10:25:36 PM »
If those are real (have my doubts, they make no sense, you can get twice that clock speed for a penny these days, for compatibility an integer multiple for the clockspeed would make more sense, like the DS's 33MHZ ARM7, it's like going out and buying a Trabbi today) that's absolutely idiotic. "Hey, we've built a system that has the input for handling completely interactive worlds! Well, um, okay, it can't handle completely interactive worlds but you can sit in front of the TV and imagine, isn't that great?"

Basically, if it's true the Rev has defeated its own purpose. The GC's RAM was already way too small for any form of world that doesn't stop the player every five steps to load the next area (Metroid Prime doors? Wind Waker ocean? Load times.). 24 MB! That's like trying to write an epic novel on post-it notes! Of course it doesn't do HD, that'd eat the whole RAM just for the framebuffer! Did they lock their software developers away or why wasn't Iwata overthrown the moment he told them "Oh, sorry, you're going to suffer from the same old RAM constraints again!"?

Screw 150-200$, more than 50$ including a game is asking too much.

It does sound stupid though (Thejeek, the GC was built on .25µ, even more steps in between) so it may be fake. Whether that's IGN, the dev or Nintendo lying, it's about on par with claiming that Bush plans to adopt the swastika as the US flag.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2006, 10:32:09 PM »
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Originally posted by: Kairon
Mac users are feeling the effects to this day. This is what happens when your smaller focused company has to face competition from huge mega corporations that can outspend you to the moon. You either adapt and change your strategy, or slowly wither away into nothing like Apple was doing before Steve Jobs returned to the company.

...Doh! Another Apple comparison! ARggggghhhhhh!

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Offline BigJim

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2006, 10:33:04 PM »
"Matt is apparently refusing to answer the claims of April Fools on the IGN message boards."

It's not like he was asked point blank and ducked an answer. He hasn't posted much at all in general. But Peer shot down the April Fools theory. So that ends that. He's also updated his blog with additional thoughts.
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Offline thejeek

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #82 on: March 29, 2006, 10:34:40 PM »
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It does sound stupid though (Thejeek, the GC was built on .25µ, even more steps in between) so it may be fake.


Absolutely - that only makes it worse - the IBM 750GX (a derivative of the 750FX and pretty similar to Gekko) runs at over 1GHz and that's an off-the-shelf part on an old process (.13 micron)

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #83 on: March 29, 2006, 10:34:53 PM »
Its all a cover-up, they have too much invested in their joke to give it up now.

Offline BigJim

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2006, 10:37:04 PM »
You will say "Meh!"

I'm about to head over to GAF.  I can only imagine the 100 pages of shock and hilarity that await.  
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Offline Mario

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2006, 10:49:18 PM »
GAF opinion is always spot on! I asked my mum what she thought of this, she confirmed that there was no way any significant developers would support the Revolution now and then she headed to the store to pre-order a PS3.
Quote

Originally posted by: BigJim
"Matt is apparently refusing to answer the claims of April Fools on the IGN message boards."

It's not like he was asked point blank and ducked an answer. He hasn't posted much at all in general. But Peer shot down the April Fools theory. So that ends that. He's also updated his blog with additional thoughts.

Heh, alright. I haven't actually been there myself.

Offline Kairon

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #86 on: March 29, 2006, 10:50:12 PM »
Nemo, the architectures for the Rev's and X360's chips are drastically different, in both philosophy and design. AND, both systems had different teams within the company working on them, I suspect. Remember, the GC GPU came from the ArtX team, which was later bought by ATI. That same ArtX team is probably behind the Rev's GPU. The X360 GPU is likely an actual ATI team, probably closer based on existing PC technology because MS values PC-X360 portability so much.
Probably a similar situation within IBM.

Thus, comparing the clock rates of one to the other doesn't exactly have a great deal of ground to stand on.

Anyways, the rate of diminishing returns at this point is crazy. You see all that stuff they're pouring into the X360 and PS3? HD is all fine and dandy, but is it worth the all those extra costs to manufacturer, developer, and consumer to see slightly flashier graphics? "2-3 times the GC" is really sounding to me like a sweetspot in terms of efficiency for all involved: manufacturing, graphics budget of development, and the consumer dollar on both the software and hardware fronts.

Oh, and about that darned Steve Jobs-Hiroshi Yamauchi comparison... didn't Yamauchi say sometime in 2004 that there was no need to really push graphics mcuh further beyond this generation? LOL. But seriously, I'm really digging Iwata-san, he seems like he actually has a plan with the Rev, unlike the aimless transitional Cube. And hey, it just may work!

BTW, this makes me wonder...exactly HOW expensive is the controller anyways? Nintendo has said they poured tons into the controller technology research... will they expect us to pay tons ($50+?) for each individual controller? That'd suck!

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #87 on: March 29, 2006, 10:51:27 PM »
"Let's just all calm down"

LET'S NOT CALM DOWN.

What's good for IGN traffic is good for PGC forum traffic.

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Offline wandering

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #88 on: March 29, 2006, 10:59:36 PM »
Quote

Are you suggesting that Yamauchi is gonna return to throne?

One can only hope!
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Offline Kairon

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2006, 11:14:56 PM »
I don't care what anyone says! I'm going to hype myself for a sub-$200 launch! Nintendo is fighting inflation, meaning my gaming dollar gets me more! More! MORE!

And then I'm gonna get giddy at how fast Nintendo can aggressively drop the price on this baby! The sooner it hits $100 the sooner it hits the mass casual market and sales EXPLODE! Remember, The PSX and PS2 sold  lot of units, yes, but they sold their most 3-4 years in when they hit mass-market prices and their hit games could be bought at 20 bucks a pop!

The only thing that could muck this up for me now is whether the revolution will have enough launch games for me to buy! I intend to go hog wild on this baby!

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Offline pudu

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2006, 11:30:22 PM »
Alright I need to go to bed but here is what is going through my head right now (which I already posted @ gonintendo.com):

What gets me is why would someone under an NDA, with their job on the line, leak this information to one of the biggest game-related sites on the web?  Why would Nintendo put all this time and money into R&D and not even produce a graphics card that could utilize the newest shader funcitons and whatnot to help with graphics and ease system strain?  How in the world could they stress to no end that gameplay is #1 and not discuss/acknowledge that CPU performance has to do with MANY aspects of a game that directly affect GAMEPLAY (ai, physics, framerate, etc.)  Would this create similar gameplay limitations due to hardware specs, just with a new way of controlling those limited characters/objects?

These are but many of the questions that are frantically buzzing around in my head.  I'm sorry if I've been a bit negative for some of you to handle but these are all legit things I think Nintendo will have to explain and/or justify somehow.  I already know I'm getting the console, I just am now worried this choice in hardware power might unessarily limit the creative freedom and potential of the Revmote.  It almost seems with such an intuitive device that it is almost begging for some decent power to back it up!


--anyway I'll post again tomorrow when I can think more logically (2:30am now)

Offline Kairon

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2006, 11:32:27 PM »
Also, when looking at RAM, I tend to divide any HD system's RAM by 3. That's for the bigger, meaner HD textures that are required I assume. I don't confess any technical knowledge though, I just ehard this "3 times the size" talk of HD textures somewhere and it stuck.

And actually, the X360 was gonna have 256 MB of RAM before they got RAM-Envy when they saw Sony's spec sheet and upped it to 512 just to keep up with the Joneses. So going by MS's original, un-tainted estimate of how much RAM they'd need for the HD machine... 256/3 is roughly, what? 85 MB? Nintendo has more than that.

AND, this time it's all 1T-SRAM. That sounds pretty impressive, doesn't it? Doesn't the XBox 360 use plain vanilla DDR RAM?

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline thejeek

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2006, 11:44:02 PM »
Quote

AND, this time it's all 1T-SRAM.


Yeah - but in two banks of different sizes apparently. Firstly, this is just plain technically stupid and I can't imagine Nintendo would actually do it (hence specs are bullshit). Secondly, it's going to annoy the bollocks off developers by forcing them to not only accept a very much smaller amount of memory than other systems but also painstakingly divide their stuff up between the two (three including DRAM??!?) banks of memory - Nintendo want to make development easier not more tedious (hence specs are bullshit)

Offline ShyGuy

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2006, 11:46:29 PM »
Wow, see what happens when I'm busy all day and don't check PGC?

I will wait till I see some screenshots running on Rev hardware before I decide if this is ohnoes! or sooo good.

Offline Kairon

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2006, 11:58:01 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: pudu
Alright I need to go to bed but here is what is going through my head right now (which I already posted @ gonintendo.com):

What gets me is why would someone under an NDA, with their job on the line, leak this information to one of the biggest game-related sites on the web?  Why would Nintendo put all this time and money into R&D and not even produce a graphics card that could utilize the newest shader funcitons and whatnot to help with graphics and ease system strain?  How in the world could they stress to no end that gameplay is #1 and not discuss/acknowledge that CPU performance has to do with MANY aspects of a game that directly affect GAMEPLAY (ai, physics, framerate, etc.)  Would this create similar gameplay limitations due to hardware specs, just with a new way of controlling those limited characters/objects?

These are but many of the questions that are frantically buzzing around in my head.  I'm sorry if I've been a bit negative for some of you to handle but these are all legit things I think Nintendo will have to explain and/or justify somehow.  I already know I'm getting the console, I just am now worried this choice in hardware power might unessarily limit the creative freedom and potential of the Revmote.  It almost seems with such an intuitive device that it is almost begging for some decent power to back it up!


--anyway I'll post again tomorrow when I can think more logically (2:30am now)


I'd like a chance to address these topics, if I may.

There have always been leaks. I don't know why they happen, but they happen. *shrug* Right now I just accept their existence.

Nintendo's major R & D budget seems to have gone into developing the Revolution controller. This appears to have been a difficult process, with latency issues apparently being a real major hurdle. Also, it appears that Nintendo never intended to compete with Sony or MS in terms of hardware prowess this generation. They had originally intended to release the freehand controller as a GC expansion that would extend the GC's life another generation, then had to scrap that plan when faced with the inevitable march of hardware. Then, they opted to continue on their tact of ease of development and the GC's ultra streamlined design instead of brute power, it appears that Nintendo requested hardware that would provide them the most bang for their buck: not expensive to make, powerful for stndard definition, easy to develop for. There may have been some oversights, or tricky cost-cutting decisions, which I suppose is where the shader functions were scrapped. Still, these were probably made on a value analysis taking into account the rate of diminishing returns on graphics these days.

And I think it's ridiculous to wonder whether the Rev's hardware will cripple games. AI in videogames is a result of good design and smart algorithms, not CPU thunder. Physics seemed to work well enough on the last generation of games, this generation will be fine too, just the Rev won't be able to cram 1 million rubber duckies in your bath like the PS3 can, or bounce that many ping pong balls or whatever. And framerate, did the last generation give you any indication that framerates were suffering in Nintendo games? Isn't 30FPS, 60 FPS enough? If not, the PS3 does have that 120 FPS claim...

The revolution hardware is exactly what it needs to be. IGN describes it as a vehicle for the Revmote, and I think this is true. The hardware does everything it needs to do to put a pretty nice visual on your Standard Definition TV and little else. It doesn't need the 3X RAM count for HD textures, nor does it need heaps upon heaps more of headache-inducing multi-threaded multi-core complex and expensive computing brute force just to throw enough millions of characters on the screen for players to slaughter by pressing one button like X360's Ninety-Nine Nights. All that would be a waste, it would increase the risk for Nintendo and it would increase the Price for buying and developing on the Revolution, things that would limit the Revolution controller's exposure to gamers, casuals, and non-gamers, adoption by developers, and ultimate success.

The Revolution basically IS the controller, it seems. Everything else is just there to complement it, and anything more would only hinder it. In contrast to your ending thought, The Revolution controller actually calls out for the mainstream price of widespread adoption, and for the risk-reducing safety of non-bleeding edge hardware and easy development environments.

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline eljefe

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #95 on: March 30, 2006, 03:15:35 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
eljefe talked about Nintendo forcing a restriction which works better for art.  I'll agree with one thing.  When Nintendo has on a cartridge based N64 and had a buttload of self-imposed restrictions put on them they blew me away far more often then they did on the Cube.  On the Cube they had no need for midi sounds yet they still used them.  They had the option for FMV and when they used it in Super Mario Sunshine it looked horrible and looked exactly like the in game graphics which is kind of, well, stupid.  They made a very bland boring Mario model that looked like something out of a Dreamcast launch title and used it in every Mario game since Super Mario Sunshine.  They had a lot of freedom and they rarely used it so their games seemed like they were missing something.  On the N64 it was like every game was pushing the hardware to it's limits.  With the Cube, it rarely felt like that.

So in a way it might be better for Nintendo to have less freedom so that they push the hardware more often.  That doesn't help for third parties.  Restriction can be good for art but there's a business side.  Third parties can potentially make more money on the other two consoles which provide them with more freedom.  A third party will only accept major limitations if they feel they have to to make money.
Good. You got it. At least part of it.

To address your point, even the N64 missed out on 3rd party support (for really complex reasons). Nintendo's reaction seemed to be to try and keep up graphically with the XBOX and PS2 to attract the 3rd parties back. The trouble is the techniques they used to differentiate themselves from the competition were not seen as desirable to the majority (the handle, the little discs, better loadtimes, the color). Basically, the things that made it different didn't make people say "I NEED THAT". So developers, realizing this ahead of time (or smarting from poor sales on the GC on multiplatform games), decided to avoid the GC as a business decision.

People posting above don't get it. The Revolution COULD compete directly with the 360 and PS3.  But, that is the single most foolish thing Nintendo could do.

As an extreme, I'll compare the PS2 and GBA. Many people own both because they fulfill such drastically different needs for FUN. They are BOTH fun. So people are willing to buy both.

That is also part of why the PSP isn't selling as well it could be: it is not different enough from the home consoles. Its spec sheet, and the philosophy of the company backing it, are creating a "shape" that is nearly identical to the PS2 but portable. Therefore the same types of games and developers are attracted to it.



..:    I just noticed WTF is FTW backwords. Sometimes when you think things are going bad, they suddenly turn around. Much like this thread. For the win.  :.   MJRx9000

Offline attackslug

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #96 on: March 30, 2006, 03:34:14 AM »
I must say, while the clockspeeds are unsurprising to me, the "lack of shaders" is interesting.  What do they mean by this?  Does it lack hardware support for complex shaders like the Cube, or does it just not support all of the latest and greatest shader model stuff?  I would be extremely surprised, not to mention slightly let down, if any aspect of the Rev's graphical capabilities were truly less than anything of the last generation systems.

BTW, the Cube "did not support shaders", yet quite a few games featured full bumpmapping, complex depth of field blurring, and some rather impressive texture effects.  Just look at the cinematics in RE4 or just about any surface (particularly the water) in RSIII.

Offline Fro

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #97 on: March 30, 2006, 04:44:42 AM »
If these are real, it definitely confirms some other surprises, because they could pay $10-20 more bucks and get chips that were still cheap with at least 2x the specs.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #98 on: March 30, 2006, 04:59:29 AM »
attackslug: I think it would mean no shader units on the hardware, which, of course, is idiotic since shaders are standard for all GPUs these days.

Overall these specs would probably be pricier and less powerful than even the cheapest off-the-shelf components.

BTW, an interesting comment I've read onj /. was that since IGN is working with Nintendo they are bound by the same NDAs as everyone else, even if Matt got the information from someone outside the company and never even got close to the department working on it he'd still put the company in jeopardy,

Offline jasonditz

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2006, 05:15:09 AM »
Hey, did the original specs article get changed since last night? I seem to recall reading a sentence that specifically compared the Rev and Xbox CPUs specifically on clock speed and declared the Rev "slightly slower"... now today there's something about "admittedly different architecture".