Topic: Revolution - The Exclusive Console

[IceCold]

I don't usually make new threads (especially those that depict my opinion) but I wanted to write this about the Revolution. So here goes..

If everything we have seen so far can be used as an indicator, the Revolution will be an exclusive console. Of course, to anyone who knows about their new controller, this is obvious. Playing with the Revolution will be a drastically different experience than playing with any other competing console. In fact, no other console in history can emulate what the Revolution does. Therefore, it is natural to expect that the control scheme will breed software that utilises it. However, we also have to take into account that the Revolution will not support High Definition and will, in all likelihood, sport weaker hardware. And this is where it gets interesting.

HD is being pushed hard by both Sony and Microsoft. They are both forcing games released onto their consoles to support HD. With this said, most of the multiplatform games for the next cycle of consoles will be designed with High Definition in mind. So how does the Rev factor into all of this? Well, the results could differ greatly. One one hand, multiplatform developers could choose to forgo Revolution development altogether. This is not likely, and most of these developers have already confirmed support for the Rev. A more likely scenario would be that companies wanting to make an  easy port will quickly scale back their games and slip them into the Revolution's library. The end result could be an unpolished game which may even look like a GameCube one graphically. This would not bode well for Nintendo. It was often a complaint that the GameCube got the worst multiplatform ports of them all, since they were quick ports and not developed specifically for the Cube. Big selling games like Madden are prime examples like this. The same situation could happen with the Revolution, except potentially worse. Combine this with the GameCube's infamous 3rd party software tie-in ratio and the Revolution is in a tough situation.

And then there's the whole aspect of multiplatform titles trying to use the control scheme. These titles probably won't be developed specifically to cater to the Revolution's features. The same companies wanting a quick port will either use the shell or try to add in features at the last minute. If the control scheme is used as a gimmick and does not add to the game in any way, it will mean trouble. I suspect this that many games will use the NRC in an unintuitive and unimaginative way for multiplatform ports, and this could even make them worse games than they started off as.

Well, this post has been pretty disheartening until now, but now that the negatives are out of the way onto the flip (positive) side. Nintendo has told us that they are going around to major 3rd parties and helping them to implement the control mechanisms into their franchises. This is a brilliant idea, and Nintendo should do all they can to make sure that 3rd parties use the controller effectively and innovate with it. If all goes according to plan, then multiplatform titles could benefit greatly. If the Rev version of one such game is significantly better, then it would be perfect. It would be something that neither the 360 nor the PS3 version can offer, regardless of how many lines of resolution they offer. Consumers would choose the Rev version, and the controller would pay dividends.

And then there's the exclusives, first and third party. We know that Nintendo's own games will push every feature of the Revolution hard, and will be deciding factors in the success of the Revolution. I also believe that third parties will test the waters at first with some exclusive Rev games early on. One or two of these exclusives need to be runaway successes to sell the console. If the Rev can gain the marketshare lead and the tie-in ratio is respectable, then the whole multiplatform issue won't matter at all. The exclusives will come rolling in, and with them flows potential. Potential for innovation. We could experience some of the best games ever made if everything works out.

So how will the Revolution turn out when it's all over? We can only guess. However, one thing is for sure; Nintendo is betting all the marbles on this one..

[Djunknown]

Pretty much all your points are well taken, but we've beating ourselves over and over with the same arguments since September. Until Nintendo gives up the whole proverbial pie, we're just going to argue with what little info Nintendo drip feeds us.

I'm hoping they'll show something at GDC, just enough to get fans like ourselves to salivate for e3.

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. If the control scheme is used as a sparkling innovation and does not add to the game in any way, it will mean trouble.

Just like the DS, exclusive content will be the key. Forced ports aren't going to cut it. As long as they have great games to outweigh the forced ports, the Rev should be fine.

[IceCold]

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Pretty much all your points are well taken, but we've beating ourselves over and over with the same arguments since September. Until Nintendo gives up the whole proverbial pie, we're just going to argue with what little info Nintendo drip feeds us.

I agree.. I just wanted to pour out all my thoughts on the issue into this one thread. I'm not going to speculate any more until tomorrow, I promise!

[TrueNerd]

You know what I say? Screw multiplatform games, that's what I say. Seriously. The best games of this generation were either 1st party games or 3rd party games originally designed for a single console in mind. The only exceptions I can think of are Beyond Good and Evil and Sands of Time. I mean, who the hell bought the GameCube to play anything but it's exclusives? In fact, exclusives are the only reason I buy ANY console. This will be even moreso the case with the Revolution. The controller can provide wildly new experiences not possible on anything else. I'm not gonna buy this console to play games and get experiences I could get elsewhere; I'm gonna buy it for the new types of games I can play that simply can only be done on the Revolution.

Unfortunately, I do not have the power or capacity to force everyone to think like me... yet. So maybe this matters to some. But really, I will not grieve one bit if NFL Roster Update 2007 for the Revolution looks like a GC game or if Bad Licensed Game plays awfully.  Give me something new, dammit.  

[PaLaDiN]

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Originally posted by: TrueNerd
The only exceptions I can think of are Beyond Good and Evil and Sands of Time.

I actually think you just supported your point.

[Rancid Planet]

Excellent post IceCold. But I say this, this is what I say, I says to Mable I says...

If Nintendo get their asses out there and really push the Rev HARD. I mean jam it down consumers throats like it's vitamin time and mommy is on one of her hippie health fads again. IF that happens and the Rev manages to really catch on to all these new demographics that Nintendo is hoping to land, then all of the worry over 3rd party support goes away and fast.

So I (perhaps stupidly) am hoping for a strong launch and an agrresive marketing campaign. Which would solve many software support problems. At least in the early going.

[Hocotate]

This is the most excited I've been at the turn of a new generation. So many different things could happen, the Rev could completely flop and be dubbed the "Virtual boy 2" and perhaps even end Nintendo's console making days. Or it could completely revolutionize the indurstry and be considered the best console in history for years to come. And perhaps with Sony and MS out of the top spots, consoles will no longer be littered with the expensive non-gaming extras and extremely high prices. Perhaps Sega will feel it's a good time to enter the console business once more!

Ok, wishful thinking at the end there but that would be so nice!!

[BigJim]

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Originally posted by: TrueNerd
You know what I say? Screw multiplatform games, that's what I say. Seriously. The best games of this generation were either 1st party games or 3rd party games originally designed for a single console in mind. The only exceptions I can think of are Beyond Good and Evil and Sands of Time. I mean, who the hell bought the GameCube to play anything but it's exclusives? In fact, exclusives are the only reason I buy ANY console. This will be even moreso the case with the Revolution. The controller can provide wildly new experiences not possible on anything else. I'm not gonna buy this console to play games and get experiences I could get elsewhere; I'm gonna buy it for the new types of games I can play that simply can only be done on the Revolution.

That's pretty easy to say about GameCube, where almost nothing but Nintendo's titles sold through to begin with. It wasn't because there weren't good 3rd party games out there, they just didn't sell and developers pulled out or came up with weird Nintendo-style titles. I would much rather have a platform that had a good variety of 3rd party games that DID sell. Otherwise the system just isn't healthy and you have another GameCube-like release schedule that's weak at best.

The good news is that I think developers, creatively, won't be able to help but come up with ways to use the controller. Whether they're compelling uses or not is unknown, but they must be darn curious. I HOPE 3rd party games have a chance this time around and aren't overshadowed by Nintendo fans buying only Nintendo product.

[Ian Sane]

I think the N64 benefited from being an "exclusive console."  It was different enough from the Playstation that it didn't get many ports so almost every game was made specifically for it.  There wasn't as much third party support but overall I would say the third party games it did get were better than most Cube third party games.  A lot of people say the Cube's third party support was an improvement.  Technically there were probably more games but I think the N64 had better third party games and that's what really matters.  The Cube had too many half-assed ports.  Now a port can be good sometimes because it's a great game that the userbase wishes they could play.  But that's only worthwhile if the port is as accurate and polished as it can be.  On the Cube they rarely were.  The Rev might benefit from getting less of these ports even if they overall amount of third party releases is lower.

But there's a big issue.  The N64 followed the market leader SNES and by default started off as the market leader.  It had more momentum and back then Nintendo still had some power in the console market.  That might be the reason why third parties made exclusives for it.  Since the Rev is following the last place console and interest in Nintendo is very low third parties just might ignore it outright.  Plus things have changed in the industry since then.  EA and Ubisoft are so huge and they use the strategy of porting games to everything.  Back in the N64 days neither third party was quite as powerful and exclusive third parties like Square were the big guys.  Multiplatform support is a more popular idea these days and that could put a huge monkeywrench in any plans to be an exclusive console.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: TrueNerd
Unfortunately, I do not have the power or capacity to force everyone to think like me... yet. So maybe this matters to some.

I think you're right, and I think Nintendo is right.

I've said it before: for every hardcore gamer I know, I know 5 who used to play games but don't anymore or play them very, very sparingly, buying a new one once every few months or so.

Console sales fell horribly this year, only being brought back up by the DS.

It's not just Nintendo who believes that there's an untapped section of the market out there who has either grown bored with gaming or finds it throughly unapproachable.

When games like Nintendogs and Brain Training rapidly become million sellers, who can argue with them?

[trip1eX]

The other thing about the REv too is that it's all about the games.  The others are about alot of other stuff.  If you look at the PS3 it's about hi-def movies, internet access, games, downloads, and maybe it's a pc too now.

the Rev is just a game machine.

[animecyberrat]

I dont have anything to add just saw Icecold nailed a lot of it hed on. bUt left out the ace up their sleeve, the Virtual Console. Oh yea and FREE Online

[Rancid Planet]

Ian brings up an interesting point. The quality of third party games can probably be in part attributed to the system in question. The N64 COULD do things (graphically in-game) that the PSONE could not. So it did probably benefit in that way in getting attention from thrid party developers. The GCN could not really make this claim. Not to any real extent anyway.

But let's consider this. What if the Rev benefits in the same way as the N64 did? I'm not saying I expect decent quality games from third parties right off the bat. As Ian pointed out, Nintendo are now fighting uphill rather than slowly rolling downhill as they did during the N64 era. And momentum does mean something. But imagine if Nintendo DO impress the non-gamers and gamers alike with this new interface. It could lead not just to ports of crapass 3rd party games I wouldn't be caught dead playing anyway. But it could, in fact, lead to 3rd parties making great ORIGINAL games for the system.

That's a best case scenario of course. Nintendo are still going to have to initially sell this system on their own. Which I feel they are more than capable of doing. It's just a matter of whether or not they apply themselves at this point.

[BlkPaladin]

But you also should remember that the third party suppor they recieved was from developer who programmed for the SNES and knew what Nintendo wanted in a game, and took time to make the game.

Today though with the advent of Playstation's loose third party standards (and Microsofts) most third parties don't give a flying flip if their games are made well just as long as they sell well. And to do that they are going to make as fast as they can, with as generic code as they can, and as many consoles as they can.

[wandering]

The only thing that matters, when it comes to third part support, is the popularity of the console in question. The rev, while less powerful, won't be a generation behind the competition ala the ds. Downscaling to the rev/upscaling to the other consoles shouldn't be any big deal, especially with the rev's lack of HD giving devs more horespower to play with.

If the rev is popular, there will be a healthy amount of third party support.

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But there's a big issue. The N64 followed the market leader SNES and by default started off as the market leader. It had more momentum and back then Nintendo still had some power in the console market. That might be the reason why third parties made exclusives for it.

I doubt it.

[Requiem]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think the N64 benefited from being an "exclusive console."  It was different enough from the Playstation that it didn't get many ports so almost every game was made specifically for it.  There wasn't as much third party support but overall I would say the third party games it did get were better than most Cube third party games.  A lot of people say the Cube's third party support was an improvement.  Technically there were probably more games but I think the N64 had better third party games and that's what really matters.  The Cube had too many half-assed ports.  Now a port can be good sometimes because it's a great game that the userbase wishes they could play.  But that's only worthwhile if the port is as accurate and polished as it can be.  On the Cube they rarely were.  The Rev might benefit from getting less of these ports even if they overall amount of third party releases is lower.

But there's a big issue.  The N64 followed the market leader SNES and by default started off as the market leader.  It had more momentum and back then Nintendo still had some power in the console market.  That might be the reason why third parties made exclusives for it.  Since the Rev is following the last place console and interest in Nintendo is very low third parties just might ignore it outright.  Plus things have changed in the industry since then.  EA and Ubisoft are so huge and they use the strategy of porting games to everything.  Back in the N64 days neither third party was quite as powerful and exclusive third parties like Square were the big guys.  Multiplatform support is a more popular idea these days and that could put a huge monkeywrench in any plans to be an exclusive console.

Good point.

However, I think you are excluding very important factors.

Nintendo has made the Revolution as user-friendly as possible. It's easy to make, and it's cheap. The N64 was realitively hard to develope for, and the media was very limiting in size. The REV has it beat on both accounts.

It's true that since devs had to invest a greater deal of time to devolope a game, they usually put forth the effort into making it a good game. However, the same thing will occur on the REV except for a different reason. During the N64 eras, the analogue stick made developers think of ways to use it. This can be a good thing or a bad thing, but the fact that they are at least trying to implement the controller means that they are putting effort into making it a good game (even if it turns out to suck). There are always those that are lazy and create a pile of crap, but still, creativity stimulates effort. Add that to the fact that it's both easy to dev for and cheap, and you have a winning combinitation.

As for IceCold's post,

The Rev could have a tough time recieving ports. Like others said, it all comes down to popularity. And like I said before, the Rev needs a killer app. And you know what? With only the current list of games confirmed, I think we just might get one.

[lastexit]

The real key to success for third parties is how well Nintendo can sell them on their vision and their assessment of reality.  They know the market is at a turning point.   They know sales are down and that the demographic trend is not good.  Nintendo isn't just doing something different for the sake of it, they are doing it for the sake of their entire INDUSTRY.  Nintendo can't continue to get rich by selling video games if nobody is buying them.  Other devs must surely hate the likes of EA and Ubisoft when they release GARBAGE games and ports just to cash a check.  It lowers the bar and makes ALL OF THEIR PRODUCTS lesser in the eyes of consumers.  You push that too far and the market collapses.  That is the danger.

If Nintendo is successful in getting other devs to agree with them they will have TREMENDOUS third party support.